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级别: 管理员
只看该作者 120 发表于: 2009-02-10
sunyuting1 2008-06-08 16:19
练习千万法的必须熟练练习《听说大突破》,但是好的磁带还要容易练习,从多年推广辅导听说大突破的经验来看,一些学员就是不能坚持练习下来,从采用压码抄写,到压码简易音节注音,到压码听懂坚持练习下来的都不多,好的语音文本还必须能够消化吸收,才会有好的效果。
实际上只要一个月时间就可以练习完听说大突破,因为不采取措施吸收的速度太慢,或者说没有耐力吸收完毕就放弃了,实在很可惜。
压码听懂整理一遍文本,就可以将语音和文本对应起来了,全部六盘磁带,一周时间就可以练习一遍。因为不整理听起来印象不深,整理一遍再听就能理解了,这时候自然听磁带才会进行吸收和消化。整理文本可以反复进行,练习一个语音整理到六遍就可以完全吸收了。
所以当一个语音感觉难的时候,其实换一种方法练习就很容易了。


sunyuting1 2008-06-09 10:18
整个《听说大突破》全部磁带的语音文本已经练习一遍,压码听懂练习中整理文本对于记忆语音起到重要的作用,记住了语音,记住了语音对应的文本,记住了文本对应的语音,实际上就记住了语音的节奏,记住了组织语言的过程,所以貌似复杂的句子就容易理解了,不能适应的语言编排说话英语思维过程的习惯就适应了,所以你也会用口语说话了。原来他们再说话的时候,也是不能一步定位确定怎样说,也要一边思考一边说话,这和我们说汉语的过程是一样的,明白了这一点,你就突然会说英语口语了。
    但是你如果反复听磁带,你就是听几个月时间也不容易养成和他们一样的坏习惯,习惯虽然不好,但是实用,会说话的磁带才是好磁带,不然全是和播音员一样的磁带,和文章一样的文本,你怎样学也是学不会的,因为他不符合语言思维习惯,就是你的练习学习英语是读课文,而不是说话。
  你只要整理一遍文本就完全记住了语音,学会了文本的语言内容,学会了说话的思考过程和习惯,所以这个练习是很值得的。
  我们只要学会一盘磁带,你的英语就会发生突变,变得不管听多大难度,多么复杂的语音,多么快速的语音,都可以自然消化和吸收了。可以说一个 小时练习就会使你的听说实现突破。
  郑赞容老师提供了一个非常好的磁带语音和文本。但是他错了,错就错在对于文本的作用的忽似,不知道文本才是自然吸收英语语音的根本这个英语最大的秘密。不知道压码可以解决的关键难题。


sunyuting1 2008-06-09 11:33
1.Love and Marriage1的14分47秒语音对应的文本

1. Love and Marriage


SIDE A


Hello,
We're here gathered together
in 。。。。holy matrimony,
no actually we're here to talk about that 。。。
sacred thing that 。。。we call marriage
or living together.

Vivian:

Um,
Let's all introduce ourselves.

Daisy:

O.K.
Well I'm Daisy,
。。。and I'm married
。。。and I'm on the verge of divorce.

Bow:

Hi, everybody,
my name is Bow,
。。。and I'm married
。。。 and I think the institution of marriage
is just great.

Luke:

Um, my name is Luke,
um I'm still looking for。。。
that special someone to。。。
make all my dreams come true.

Vivian:

Hey. I think,
I'm Viv,
and I think 。。。
legal is regal but 。。。
I don't need it so。。。
I have a perfectly happy relationship with someone and 。。。
we don't plan to。。。
get married any time soon and。。。
perhaps never.

Luke:

That was cool,
those rhyme??
I wish。。。
I had thought of that.

Vivian:

Anyways let's continue on.

Vivian:

I'm sure 。。。each person agrees that。。。
everyone is made a little bit differently,
uh... some people may be suitable for 。。。
them and 。。。some may not be.
。。。And you may find the right companion。。。 for you,
。。。 during your life time.
。。。 And others find that 。。。they may choose to。。。 go another path
now I'd be curious to 。。。find out 。。
how you feel about。。。 the companion。。。 in a marriage you know..,
。。 or children..,
whatever.
Go ahead, urn, Luke?

Luke:

Well, I don't know,
maybe I'm a bit of an optimist 。。。or something.
。。。But I think 。。。I haven't find her yet,
。。。 but I believe that,
there is a girl out there,
。。。 that is just 100% compatible with。。。 me.
Like the 100% perfect girl 。。。for me,
。。。 and I just got to 。。。go out there
。。。 and I got to 。。see the world 。。。until I find her
。。。. And then totally I'm just gonna spend the rest of my life 。。。
with her and there is no questions asked,
um it will be,
I'll know it when。。。 it's the time
。。。and it's gonna be great
。。。 and I'm not gonna have to。。 worry about。。。 anything..,
。。。and I'm gonna set myself up with。。。 a little piece of farm land
。。。and I'm just gonna make babies。。。 for the rest of my life.

Daisy:

The three kids 。。。in the three bedroom house
the whole deal.

Luke:

Well, yeah to a degree.
I just wanna drop-out,
you know 。。。I wanna work hard now 。。。then I wanna drop 。。。by the society,
I don't wanna be。。。 part of this rat i race anymore。。。
but I mean,
I've got to stay interested in it,
I've got to stay。。。 in the game
。。。and the only way 。。。you can do that,
is just by being in love。。。 with someone who.。。。
I'm 100%。。。 on the level with
。。。and totally together with.
。。。 And I have faith that 。。。I'll find her,
hopefully soon.

Vivian:

。。。But what 。。。makes you feel that?
Well I mean。。。 not that you won't find her
。。。but I'm saying。。。 why do you feel。。。 the drive or 。。。
the need to。。。 find a companion 。。。in your life?
。。。 And what 。。。makes you think that, 。。。
that would be so nice?
(Daisy: Where's。。。 the feeling?)

Luke:

It's kind of empty without it,
isn't it?
I mean。。。 your whole world is。。。 made up of 。。all these like individuals going around trying to
find something in common with..
, as many other people as possible.
。。。And just trying to like 。。。make a connection,
。。。but a whole bunch of 。。。really superficial connections like,...
I don't know..,
like 。。。what're your hobbies, 。。。what's your job,
people join clubs to。。。 find people and 。。。
so they can talk about 。。。similar things and。。
so they can。。。 sort of have a common ground
。。。 to start a relationship with.

Vivian:

So (Daisy: Romantic.)
you don't think that,
you don't think that,
there would be。。。 any reason or。。。 way,
I mean。。。 do you think that。。。 this will be your lifetime partner?
。。。 What about 。。。divorce?
You don't see that。。。 in the picture?
I mean,
do you think that,。。。
。。。 by chance,
you might end up with。。。 the wrong partner?
。。。And do you believe。。。 in perhaps remarriage or。。。 finding a second companion
you weren't compatible.

Luke:

No, I don't believe。。。 that at all, I think,
everything that's been leading up to,。。。 urn,
。。。in my whole life 。。。in the relationships
I've made with。。。 members of the opposite sex romantically,
there's always been。。。 something missing,
there's something that。。。 is not quite there,
it doesn't click。。。 on some level,
。。。and you have this initial attraction maybe,
。。。 but then as you find out 。。。more about each other,
eventually you become 。。。a little bit,
the passion fades and 。。。stuff,
。。。and you don't become that,
。。。and you're not into them anymore.
。。。But I think that it is。。。 possible to。。。 just click with 。。。somebody 。。。so well,
。。。and you just realize 。。。you just go on 。。。and go on,
the attraction just gets better。。。 and better because。。。
as you discovering things about 。。。them you realize 。。。
。。。how much they have。。。 in common 。。。with you,
。。。but it's a very rare thing,
I mean 。。I don't think。。。 everybody necessarily even finds it。。。 in their life..
。。。, but I think that 。。。that is something we can。。。 strive for.
The dating process is。。。 just like。。。
auditions you're just learning about 。。。people
。。。and then someone gets the parts,
someone you cast 。。。in the leading role 。。。in your life.

Daisy:

So you're determine to 。。。like search out that person
。。。and until you find that 。。。person you're satisfied 。。。with being alone or,。。。
。。。 or like maybe dating or,...

Luke:

I'm happy dating 。。。and stuff,
。。。but I don't do it just 。。。for the sake of doing
。。。 and like I definitely have an ulterior motive that's,
I wanna find that。。。 person,
it's a, it's a ..
.there's a definitely。。。 I mean to,
I mean I'm 。。。trying to have fun。。。 in the meantime,
。。。but there's that 。。。emptiness there,
that's, that's just,。。。 you know,
。。。 by playing the field I just don't get that,。。。
that support I need.

Vivian:

Ah So you're 。。。a sensitive guy,
。。。 and you're looking 。。。for that Mrs right.

Luke:

No, well,
。。。 if you wanna put it 。。。in Dear Abbey terms,
yeah I guess so

Vivian:

Ok. Well,
。。。let's move on to。。。 Bow then.
Bow, you're in 。。。a very stable marriage 。。。with three kids.
I mean,。。。 you're happy。。。 where you are?

Bow:

I'm extremely happy.
。。。 It's probably the best decision。。。 I've ever made。。。 in my life,
。。。and I totally。。。 see where...
Luke is coming from,
I mean。。。 being my brother 。。。and all we are pretty much,
you know,。。。 sensitive guys, so ...
um ... yeah. I went through the same thing as him and ...。。。
it's tough。。。 in the beginning,
I mean。。。 it's hard to。。。 find that Mrs. Right,
。。。but if you just keep looking 。。。and your compassionate about it,
you do find her。。。 and you do,.., 。。
and the institution of marriage 。。。is just the ultimate thing。。。 for a man.
。。。 It's just great,。。。 it's the fusion of not just your bodies
。。。but also your souls,
you're soul mates.

Daisy:
。。。 And what made Mary Lou 。。。so righ。。。t for you, Bow?

Bow:

It must have been, like, 。。。
she just had twinkle。。。 in her eye.
I could 。。。see deep 。。。into her soul,
。。。like I just knew that 。。。her soul 。。。and my soul 。。。were like two souls that
, we're made。。。 for each other.

Vivian:

One soul.

Luke:

You lucky dog.
。。。See that's 。。。what I want see。。。
that's 。。。what I want to look at that 。。。I'm just like,。。。 that's it, man.

Bow:

You can get there.
You will someday, man.

Daisy:

Right, well, see,
you know,
I'm kind of in the opposite situation。。。 from you guys,
。。。because, uh... well, 。。。
what can I say,
I was looking,
I thought 。。。for exactly the same things,
。。。and I thought 。。。I'd found Mr. Right,
。。。and we've been married now 。。。for five years.
。。。 And we've... I really, 。。。I have to。。。 admit I've tried.
I really have tried,
I put in the time.

Vivian:

Did you love him。。。 when you first married him?
。。。 And up to what point did you think that 。。。you loved him.
I mean do you still love him?

Luke:
。。。 When did it fade
。。。, when did it change?

Vivian:

And why?

Daisy:

Oh, well, I don't know,
I cannot put this into words.
Let me see,
well, for me, yes,
I did love him.
I was both。。。
in love and 。。。
in lust with him,
。。。when I met him.

Vivian:

And did he love you too,
I mean。。。, was it 。。。a mutual thing,
you really had that love,
I mean... Luke There,
That's the only way it works.

Daisy:

I think so,
I think,
I really think that 。。。he did feel that way,
you know,
the thing is it that,
it's really easy to be idealistic,
。。。 and 。。。when you're 。。。in the white dress in your,
you have this wonderful guy 。。。who's proposing to you. And, 。。。
。。。and your, 。。。there's the whole Cinderella,
you know。。。 fairy tale ideal。。。 that's behind 。。。a wedding.
。。。 And um, 。。。here I was walking down the aisle thinking that。。。
。。。 everything was gonna be wonderful,
we were gonna have。。。 the three kids the house。。。 and the dog,
。。。and the B.M.W. 。。。in the drive way.
。。。 And um, all of a sudden。。。 we had the house,
。。。and ok we didn't have children but..,。。。
there was something missing.
And we...
I think 。。。we started this 。。。on just an ideal
。。。 and we weren't prepared。。。 for the realities of marriage.
It's much more than。。。 those ideals.

Luke:

Well, it's nothing,
。。。 but it's nothing that's。。。 insurmountable,
it's not anything that 。。。you can't overcome。。。 with communication,
。。。and genuine concern 。。。for the other person's well-being.

Daisy:

Yeah, 。。。but the thing is 。。。where I'm at now,
Luke is,
I really,
I don't know,
if I can。。。 go on anymore,
I mean,。。。 I think 。。。we've passed the point,
。。。maybe we should have been doing that 。。。communicating 。。。way back before,
and now I'm in。。。 this situation where,
I don't really 。。。wanna be with him,
do I love him?
I love him 。。。in the sense that 。。。I care about him,
。。。because I've been with 。。。him。。。 for a long time,
I don't want。。。 anything bad happen。。。 to him.
I wanna be able to。。。 help him as a friend 。。。if possible,
。。。 but I'm certainly not 。。。in lust with him,
。。。and here's the thing。。。 I'm at this point i。。。n my marriage
。。。 where I wanna be。。。 with other people.
I, basically I wanna go out,
。。。and I want to be with other people.

Bow:

Oh, that's a shame.

Vivian:

What about,
。。。if you're 。。。in the circumstance,
I mean,。。。 what if your situation involved children?
I mean, 。。。would you still think of 。。。ending the relationship,
I mean.., what about children?

Daisy:

Yes, that's, well,
all I can say。。。 is that 。。。I'm thankful that 。。。I don't.
。。。But you know,
I think that 。。。would make it much more difficult,
。。。 but in today's day and。。。 age maybe we could have。。。 a relationship
。。。 where I have the kids one week 。。。and they have the kids the other week.

Vivian:

So, is that 。。。what you gonna do。。。 with your poodle?

Daisy:

Well, Yes,
I mean 。。。that's another thing.
I don't know 。。。what I'm gonna do 。。。with the dog either. But...

Luke:

The dog is just a superficial thing..,
。。。 that's just some sort of thing tha。。。t you were using as some kind of glue to。。。 keep yourselves together.
I think 。。。you should give it another chance,
I mean, 。。。you've got this person,
you've obviously made it this far,
well, 。。。what you need to。。。 do is bring it 。。。to the next level.
You need to。。。 have a child,
you need to make,
need to。。。 make an another commitment,
I mean, life is just a series of commitments,
(Daisy: But, the what about...)
You got to go deeper and deeper
。。。 and keep challenging yourself and then ...
it's too easy,
people just throw things out 。。。when they don't work out (Vivian: No.)
。。。 and it's too easy.
You've got to start seeing things through.
I think, well, that's,
that's your prerogative,
。。。 but I think that people have to 。。。continue to 。。。challenge themselves
。。。 and to continue to 。。。commit themselves。。。 to things
。。。and then they realize only down the road,
I've made these commitments,
"Oh my, God,
I've had a very rich and fulfilling 。。。and beautiful life.
。。。 And a child would be the thing that 。。。you need right now
。。。, to get yourselves back 。。。on the same track,
。。。 to get yourselves together
。。。 and to get back on that horse and,。。。
go out there 。。。and have a beautiful loving relationship again.

Bow:

I totally agree.

Vivian:

Well, I totally don't,
I don't think。。。 Daisy has to go back to,
I mean, 。。。to find another commitment to。。。 hold her in there,
。。。to string her into。。。 this relationship.
I mean,。。。 she wants to。。。 find freedom,
she wants to。。。 go find another soul mate,
let her be.
。。。 Why should she be 。。tied down?

Daisy:

Well, It wasn't necessarily。。。 a soul mate.
It was just。。。 kind of um... mates.

Bow:

Was it 。。。a one night stand?

Daisy:

Yeah.

Bow:

And turned 。。。into a marriage?

Daisy:

No, no, no, no,
I was talking about。。。 when I get a divorce.
I wasn't looking。。。 for other soul mates,
just mates.

Luke:

I bet 。。。you're looking 。。。for just like sexual partners.

Daisy:

Well, 。。。at the moment, yes.

Luke:

Well, you can't do it 。。。like that,
I mean。。。 this is 。。。what I've been doing,
this is the dilemma I have.
I'm empty,
I'm like a,
I'm just like an empty vessel floating through the sea,
。。。because I don't have that 。。。anchor 。。。to hold me 。。。to anything.

Daisy:

Well, you know,
we are just。。。 basically extremes 。。。on one scale,
aren't we, Luke?

Luke:

Well, I guess so,
。。。 but I just would say 。。。from my position,
I mean。。。 the grass can。。。 look always greener 。。。from where you're sitting,
。。。but I mean,。。。 it isn't always necessarily so,
。。。 and I think that。。。 you think 。。。you'll gain all this freedom 。。。and stuff,
。。。 but you're losing a whole lot of 。。。really important things.

Daisy:

Well, Toucher,
You might 。。。come over to 。。。my green grass,
。。。 and not find it so green.

Luke:

Well, Yeah.
。。。but I haven't experienced 。。。what you've experienced, yet.
I never had that,
。。。that happy unity 。。。with one other person.
。。。And stuck it out for five years.
I've never been able to do that.

Bow:

But I have,
。。。 and I agree with Luke.
I think 。。。that instead of looking。。。 for other sexual escapade,
you should be。。。 looking for 。。。the new partner。。。 in your life,
your soul mate.
I mean it's..,
there's nothing like。。。 having this like。。。 mutual respect 。。。for one each other,
it's like a, 。。。let me give you an example。。。 like I work,
you know 。。。a little bit..,
。。。 like after seven o'clock sometimes,
。。。and you know,
I might wanna go out 。。。and have a couple of beers with,
my, my colleagues so,
you know,
I'll be back by ten,
。。。and I call my,
my wife and I say。。。
"Darling, I'm gonna be。。。 a little late maybe about 。。。10: 30"
and she's like 。。。
"Darling, no problem".

Luke:

That's beautiful.

Bow:

I mean that's,
that's mutual respect.

Luke:

Yes, that's beautiful,
and I mean,
that's, 。。。what it's all about,。。。
it's not like。。。 you've got 。。。an albatross around your neck anything.
It's liberating,
I think, I think。。。 once you find it,
you realize。。。 that you have。。。 a whole different realm 。。。of freedom
。。 that you weren't even aware existed.
(Bow: Totally)
Freedom to be。。。 yourself
, freedom to like。。。 fully give of yourself to。。。 another person.
That's true freedom,
that's true freedom.

Daisy:

Well sure,
it's freedom。。。 for you guys 。。。who work and。。。 get to go out,
。。。and lead good lives,
。。。while your wife is。。。 at home cooking and。。。
, cleaning, 。。。and she has no,
you know,
personal satisfaction.

Luke:
I'll stay at home.
I'd love to stay at home.

Bow:
Um, Well me,
personally,
I mean,
I have my own chores every day,
we share the responsibilities 。。。of the house.
I do laundry,
I wash dishes,
。。。and I'm, you know。。。 I'll come home beat dead。。。 from work,
。。。at like nine or something,
I mean。。。, really late,
I'd go to bed 。。。by like ten.
。。。But, I mean, 。。。my wife 。。。is watching the baby all day,
。。。and she might have like corns 。。。and calices on her feet,
they might stink but,。。。
I'll still massage them,
。。。 until my finger's almost bleed.
And, I mean, 。。。that's what marriage is about.

Daisy:

Well I don't know。。。 many guys。。。 like you, two.

Vivian:

And I certainly don't.

Daisy:

And I don't think。。。 there are。。。 a lot of men
。。。that are willing to 。。do that.

Vivian:

Willing to sacrifice, yeah.

Luke:

They're everywhere,
men just are,
just looking 。。。for the excuse,
。。。they have all this,
macho posturing 。。。and stuff that 。。。they just wanna go out and,
。。。 and meet a lot a chicks,
。。。 bust that's all a ruse.
It's just because they're insecure ...

Daisy:

And you don't wanna 。。。have sex 。。。with other women?

Vivian:

Oh, 。。。but he does.
He's saying he is 。。。experimenting 。。。until he finds that right one.

Luke:

But the sex isn't just 。。。an incidental.
I'm not doing it,
I'm not doing it。。。 in pursuit of sex,
I'm not,
I'm looking 。。。for someone who,。。。
。。。 who I'm compatible。。。 with sexually
。。。 but also emotionally,
。。。 and like 。。。(psycho...) intellectually.

Daisy:

Well, then 。。。why is it wrong。。。 for me 。。。to go out。。。 and have,
um and play the field。。。 and have sex。。。 with other people 。。。and find my soul mate?

Luke:

I'm not saying it's wrong,
I'm just saying
, I'm just saying。。。 that you made this decision
。。。and there's a certain sanctity to marriage,
but I think that,。。。 that it's sacred,
。。。and you have to 。。。uphold it 。。。no matter what,
no matter 。。。what life throws at you,
you've made this decision,
。。。 and you didn't do it,
just because。。。 it was a fluke,
I don't believe 。。。any marriages happen 。。。by accident.
I think。。。 that if you're gonna go that far,
it's magic,
。。。and you know 。。。its magic,
。。。and you know。。。 it's gonna work out, yeah.
级别: 管理员
只看该作者 121 发表于: 2009-02-10
sunyuting1 2008-06-09 12:39
我上面练习的整理文本,大家注意:
1、句子的停顿依靠语音和明显的连接词;
2、学会根据连接词进行断句,分拆成短小的碎句子,注意看。。。省略号的单词如that,and,but,fou,in,or,about,by,in,to,with,like,of,a,be,what,where,who,when,how,why,it's,from,until,is,been,into,so,just,while;
3、注意看英语思维的自然思考 过程采用的废话Well, you know, Um, Hey. I think,I'm sure ,I wish,I mean,  you think that,,you might ,Ah So you're ,I believe that, feel that,and I think ,Well, I don't know,it's like a,
maybe,But I think ,but I believe that,I mean,you really had that,I mean,Oh, but I think that,。。。 that it's ,I'm just saying,I'm just saying that , don't believe ,just are,He's saying he is ,like you,I'm just like, that's it,.Well, Yeah.,Well, I guess ,Um, Well me, I really, you need to make, need to make an 等等废话都是思维用语,在连接句子思维停顿的时候特别管用;
4、经过整理以后对于记忆语音和理解非常有用,在看文本及时离开很远都可以轻松看清楚句子。


sunyuting1 2008-06-09 12:49
句子停顿分拆号了,方便记住语音,记住单词,记住句子,理解意思,掌握废话,全盘吸收。
反过来,你阅读的时候就特别容易看清楚句子的停顿,句子中间的停顿的区别,短句子和长句子之间的关系,碎句子使怎样变短的,长句子使怎样变长的。
好了,你这时再,看着频谱图,听一图形上的长句子,就能听出实际表达的长句子的完整意思,你听一个长句子,就能完整压码记忆,压码能力就一下子提高搞全部课文都记住了。
一遍练习就有这样的效果,你都记住了就完全学会了怎样说话的,就能整篇文章都听懂了,听懂以后记住了,记住以后自己也会说了,说废话就象汉语一样,不是英语的专利。是口吃的表现,尽管口吃,但是速度很快,说话很流利,你英语就真的学会了。再也不是念书,而是说话了。

英语就是这么简单!!!


sunyuting1 2008-06-09 13:34
压码实际上就是一个任意的分解和合成的过程。
经过整理文本,将文本语音分解开了,一次就清清楚楚,清楚到什么程度,达到句子完整的压码回想,小到一个句子的分段小句子,在小到单词的语音音节,一致到达单词的字母之间的连读拼写,一个长句子连细微的细节都能压码记住,不需要反复听就能做到。

进行听语音看频谱合成句子到最长,一个句子一个 句子最长的频谱,听一割句子记住一个句子,然后完整的长句子进行压码回想,回想的细腻准确了,你就容易反复多回想几遍这就是多重压码,已经过滤了碎句子分离的废话,让他们成为一个整体过滤掉了,就是实际上没有废话的长句子,二者之间可以顺利转化了。
英语看着废话很多,几乎一个 句子反复重复好几次,实际上内容并不多,一次整理就掌握了。

经过分解和合成,英语就学会压码理解记忆了。


sunyuting1 2008-06-09 19:30
2.Love and Marriage2的14分47秒-28分58秒A面结束语音对应的文本

Vivian:

Well, see,
。。。but she doesn't feel it,
she doesn't know。。。 that it's magic.
She doesn't 。。。feel it at all.


.Luke:

But, at that time,
she did.
She's just lost something 。。。that used to 。。。just be there,
。。。and she just has to 。。。rekindle 。。。。that again.
It's still there,
(Daisy: But it's gone.)
it's doesn't just。。。 go away
you don't. 。。。People just don't。。。 like have something 。。。。and it disappears.
(Vivian: What if she's mistaken?)
I mean,。。。 well, 。。。that she must have mistaken,
well, then ... (Vivian: In the last it all?)
I don't think 。。。she did.
I don't think 。。。she did.
I don't think。。。。 that people make。。。。 mistake like that.
。。。 When it comes 。。。to matters of the heart,
I think you know, 。。。。you know。。。。 right off the bat.
Matters 。。。of the heart,
you can be wrong 。。。about math equations,
。。。。 and you can be。。。 wrong about,。。。
like your positions。。。。 on things。。。。 or like on historical facts.
。。。。But on matters of the heart
you're always right.
You can't, 。。。I mean。。。 intuition is everything.

Daisy:

Like Michael Jackson。。。 and Lisa Mary Presley,
(Michael, Yeah, Lisa Mary)
。。。or Dennis Rodman 。。。and or Carmen Electra.

Luke:

I don't know。。。。 these people,
。。。。but I think。。。 if they were。。。 gonna make the big plunge,
they were gonna。。。 go out 。。。and get married,
。。。and make 。。。these huge commitment。。。 to each other 。。。as this united whole.
Two candles becoming one,
you know.。。。 I think 。。。。that something 。。。was there。。。 that is still there,
。。。it's just 。。。that the thing。。。 that made it。。。 work has gone,
。。。 it's dormant now.
。。。 And it's 。。。a matter of trying to 。。。find it again。。。 and bring it back up,
(Vivian: O.K.)
。。。and I think。。。 anything is, 。。。like, just..,
can be overcome.
Any kind of conflicts you had,
。。。if you're 。。。in the bond of marriage,
。。。and you had the idea。。。 in the first place,
(Daisy: Oh that’s 。。。a little naive, Luke.)
it's real,。。。 it's real, 。。。no, it's real.

Vivian:

How, how about 。。。not trying to。。。 rekindle。。。 that fire,
。。。but, just say,。。。 "Hey, the flame is。。。 gone,
。。。 and it's died out,。。。 and you're never 。。。gonna find it again,
。。。so why not。。。 go and try to, 。。。come to 。。。a mutual understanding, 。。。and say "Hey,
。。。let's go 。。。and find another companion,。。。 or just find happiness in our lives"

Luke:

Well, I think 。。。that's。。。 a very defeatist attitude,
(Vivian: 。。。。Why is it defeatist?)
I think,。。。 I think 。。。it creates。。。 a very dangerous pattern。。。 for the rest of your life.
If something, 。。。if something just 。。。doesn't work out,
。。。 like you kind of get a thrill off it 。。。and then。。。 it's starts going on,
。。。 and all of sudden,
it doesn't have the same,
the same kick it used to 。。。have。。。 and it doesn't,
。。。there's。。。 a diminished return you're 。。。getting from it,
you don't just。。。 give up 。。。from it 。。。and walk away,
I mean, 。。。what are you 。。。gonna walk away。。。 from your whole life,
you gotta,。。。 you gotta,。。。 sometimes。。。 you've got to。。。 put yourself 。。。on the line,
and this is 。。。one of those things。。。 where you have to。。。 do that.

Daisy:

O.K. alright, O.K. Luke, well,
Here's Sally 。。。and Ben, and,。。。 Sally and 。。。Ben,
they grew up 。。。in high school together,
。。。and they had。。。 a wonderful relationship
。。。。 and they did that。。。 whole fairy tale wedding
。。。。and they thought they were 。。。very happy,
。。。and well, 。。。somewhere along the line,
Ben, 。。。kind of got 。。。a little bit violent,
。。。 and he would beat Sally
。。。and beat the children
。。。and Sally tried to。。。 get him help but,。。。
he wouldn't。。。 get him help,
。。。。 and then Sally said,。。。
"well, you know,。。。 but this is。。。 the dream。。。 of our marriage?
。。。Should I stay here?
。。。 And 。。。what about 。。。children?
。。。 And there comes a point,
。。。 don't you think。。。 when a woman。。。 in a situation。。。 like that, 。。。should leave?

Luke:

Well, you left a part out there,
。。。because, 。。。you just said,。。。
all of a sudden,
he just started beating them up?
。。。 What changed?
。。。Like 。。。what did she do
。。。, what is,。。。
how did she change。。。 that made him start beating them up,
like, I mean 。。。obviously
(Bow: Exactly) there was,。。。
something there 。。。and it shifted
。。。and the situation was made different,
。。。 that caused the man to。。。 start to 。。。becoming violent.
(Vivian: That is)
I mean, 。。。he didn't have that。。。 in high school,
I mean, 。。。I hope 。。。if he was doing。。。 that in high school,
she didn't like it.
I assume she doesn't.

Daisy:

Well, some people,
some people have。。。 violent tendencies
。。。 and they don't。。。 manifest them 。。。until later life,
。。。and perhaps he's just 。。。manifested them,
。。。 maybe it was 。。。Ben's fault, 。。。and not Sally's fault.

Luke:

Well, maybe,。。。 but, 。。I mean,。。。 obviously not,
he just didn't。。。 wake up and 。。。did
(Daisy: You're attacking women,
that's。。。 what you're doing)
no I'm not, no I'm not,
(Daisy: You are),
I'm not at all,
I'm just saying 。。。that obviously something changed。。。 in the situation and,。。。
。。。 maybe it was 。。。within Ben,
。。 like maybe。。。 it was frustration 。。。with his job
。。。or something like that.
(Vivian: Exactly, maybe。。。 it was with him)
I'm not saying that,。。。 and I guess 。。。in that situation,
yeah, I mean, 。。。it makes it。。。 a lot harder,
。。。 but I still think。。。 it's overcomeable,
I think 。。。that if he could just,
。。。 if he just could。。。 take the fighting element out..
。。。, that in him hitting them,
。。。 then it would be。。。 a good marriage again, right.

Bow:

Well, she could。。。 learn to。。。 fight back。。。 a little bit, 。。。you know.

Luke:

Sure.

Bow:

Defend herself a little bit.

Luke:

Well, that might 。。。escalate things.
Maybe that's。。。 not good.
I, I don't think 。。。violence 。。。in a marriage 。。。is really gonna...

Bow:

。。。But then maybe 。。。he could see her 。。。as his equal again,
。。。 and then。。 get on with things.

Luke:

Possibly, possibly.

Daisy:

Well, What about, 。。。O.K. Mr. Love,
please tell me。。。 then,
。。。what I'm gonna do.
Here I am living。。。 with this guy,
。。。and I well obviously have,
。。。well I'm married to him,
。。。and I, obviously have 。。。some problems。。。 with him,
。。。but my thing is, 。。。is that 。。。the I've met another man at work,
。。。and I'm very attracted to him?
。。。And I'd like to 。。。have sexual relations 。。。with him.
Now 。。。how do I stop myself 。。。from doing that?

Luke:

Well, see, you've already created the pattern。。。 for yourself though,
。。。cause if you had the same feelings。。。 for this guy 。。。that you did。。。 for your husband,。。。
is it gonna, 。。。is gonna lead to, 。。。is gonna go down。。。 the same way?

Daisy:

I don't want to 。。。get married again.

Luke:

Well... well.., why?

Bow:

Why, the marriage is...

Luke:

You have to.。。。 I mean, 。。。If it's the right thing,
。。。if you feel 。。。that kind of attraction 。。。to him,
you have to, 。。。you have to 。。。like consummate it.

Vivian:

You can't have, 。。。oh consummate it。。。 with sex?
You can't have。。。 a sexual relationship 。。。with someone。。。 without being married?

Daisy:

You're doing that, man?

Luke:

Of course, I am,
。。。but, I'm just doing it to。。。 discover 。。。about people,
I'm trying to 。。。get at their inner souls.

Daisy:

。。。And you can only do 。。。that。。。 because you're a man,
we can't.。。。 Cause we're female?

Luke:

I'm not 。。。saying that?

Bow:

It's not 。。。as good,
I mean 。。。having sexual relations with, 。。。
just a, 。。。you know, 。。。
a person。。。 that you meet 。。。in a bar 。。。or something,
it means nothing.
It's 2- dimensional,
it doesn't it matter。。。 how sexy they are?

Vivian:

O.K. Daisy?
Just you know,。。。 tell him..,。。。
let's meet。。。 at the bar。。。 and meet him all you want,
。。。 and do whatever you want。。。 with him.

Bow:

I mean, the thing...

Daisy:

Well, yeah, 。。。you know 。。。there's 。。a certain animal,
kind of instinct, 。。。in humans,
。。。 and maybe sometimes sex 。。。for the sake of sex 。。。is OK too,
。。。why does sex always have to be。。。 a flop?
。。。 Why can't I fulfill my, 。。。my pure
(Vivian: Animal magnetism)
physical desires?

Bow:
Because,。。。 you are married.

Daisy:

Okay. Well,
if I get a divorce,
。。。and I'm not。。。 gonna be 。。。married any more.

Luke:

Yeah, O.K. well,
then go ahead 。。。and get a divorce,
。。。 but well, I mean。。。 it's your life,。。。 I mean,。。。 you screwed up your life.

Bow:

Totally, I mean...you're gonna...

Vivian:

。。。Why is it that。。。 screwing up her life?
。。。 Why does divorce have to。。。 ruin your life?

Luke:

。。。Because she's turning her back 。。。on the greatest thing。。。 that's ever happened。。。 to her. 。。。That's why.

Bow:

The institution 。。。of marriage.

Luke:

Exactly.

Daisy:

Have you met 。。。my husband? No.

Luke:

No, I have not.

Daisy:

Yes, so, I don't think 。。。you're qualified to 。。。speak about it,。。 Mr. Love.

Luke:

Well, obviously,
he must have 。。。something going from,。。。
。。。 because you married him。。。 and you've lived 。。。with him。。。 for five years.

Daisy:

Yes, 。。。but that 。。。has gone.
I'm not 。。。in love 。。。with this person anymore;
I want to。。。 have sex 。。。with other people.

Vivian:

It was a mistake, 。。。she said.

Bow:

Or maybe, 。。。you know,。。。 you just weren't 。。。trying hard enough,
you have to 。。。spice up。。。 your marriage like,
you have to。。。 bring some toys。。。 into the bedroom,
spice it up, 。。。you know...。。。whips and...

Daisy:

No, spice it up 。。。by bearing another child
。。。 so that 。。。you're completely
。。。and forever eternally committed 。。。to that relationship?

Bow:

。。。That's my brother。。。 Luke's idea,
you know, 。。。he, he's not 。。。married yet,。。。 he doesn't know,
。。。 but I am. 。。。I have。。。 experience,
。。。 and yes of course。。。 you know,
we have。。。 our troubles every once。。。 in a while, but...

Daisy:

He's just 。。。wants free sex like you, O.K.

Bow:

That's not true.

Luke:

That's not true.

Vivian:

Don't get 。。。so defensive!

Luke:

I wanna..。。。. I'm looking for。。。 a committed relationship,
。。。 and I tell this 。。。to girls up front。。。 before I sleep 。。。with them,
。。。 and that 。。。I'm looking for 。。。something serious,
。。。but, sometimes, 。。。it just doesn't click.

Daisy:

I wanna hear about。。。 the toys.

Vivian:

I say,。。。 that's a line.

Bow:

I mean,。。。 the masks 。。。and specials。。。 I have order catalogs。。。 from Japan,
。。。 which are really great,
it... I mean。。。, I spent。。。 a lot of money。。。 on batteries a month?
。。。But it's totally worth it.
I mean, 。。。when you have。。。 an altercation,
。。。and all it takes 。。。is a double dong-dildo。。。 to rectify it,
it's a... I mean,。。。 it's no problem,
。。。I don't see 。。。anything wrong 。。。with that,
。。。 and you know, 。。。it's the thing。。。 with the people today they're。。。 so easy like a,
my brother was saying,。。。 to just, 。。。you know, 。。。to throw away 。。。a marriage.
。。。 But urn,。。。 for this, 。。。you're talking about。。。 going out 。。。and having sex,
。。。because you love sex...

Daisy:

Well,。。。 would you to be 。。。willing to。。。 if your wife said。。。 to you
"O.K. I love you, 。。。but I wanna be。。。 with another person。。。, to be involved 。。。with us."

Vivian:

All I want to be。。。 is sexually satisfied by,。。。 not a dildo。。。, but by the real thing.

Bow:

。。。 If that's。。。 what it would。。。 take to 。。。keep the fire。。。 in our marriage alive,
then yes 。。。I would.

Vivian:

You would 。。。let another man,
。。。if your wife said。。。 you
"No, I want 。。。another man。。。 to satisfy me,
I want to。。。 open our marriage,
。。。and take。。。 in new sexual partners"
。。。 you would do that。。。 for your wife?

Bow:

Yes, I would.

Vivian:
Even though,。。。 that's like。。。 kind of breaking 。。。your marriage, vows.
That's... I mean, 。。。that's just 。。。as good as going out 。。。and have an affair.

Bow:

Well, 。。。that depends on。。。 what kind of religion。。。 you have,
。。。 or what kind of standards, and...

Vivian:

。。。But, you guys 。。。are talking about。。。 the sanctity of marriage
。。。and the vows 。。。and not breaking them..,
。。。and 。。。how you should be。。。 forever committed。。。 to each other.

Bow:

Exactly,。。。 which means that.., 。。we'll do anything it。。。 takes to。。。 keep that alive.

Daisy:
。。。But, thus,。。。 do you really,
。。 can you sit here 。。。and honestly look me 。。。in the eye, Bow, 。。。and tell me.

Vivian:

Look at her 。。。in the eye!

Daisy:

And tell me,
(Vivian: Don't roll your eyes!)
you could 。。。watch another man。。。 having relations 。。。with Mary lou?

Bow:

I mean,。。。 if, if, 。。。what it took was for,。。。 if she, 。。。if she asked.

Vivian:

Don't break down on this.

Bow:

。。。If she asked me,。。。 you know,。。。
。。。 to have some sort 。。。of deviant relationship。。。 in bed,
。。。 that's,...that's 。。。what I had to do,
。。。 that's 。。。what I have to do!

Vivian:

。。。But I just asked you,。。。 what about。。。 the sacred vows 。。。of your marriage 。。。that you supposedly uphold。。。 so highly.

Luke:

。。。But I mean,。。。 if it's something。。。 that your partner wants,
I don't think。。。 you have to be。。。 limited。。。 by the traditional ideas。。。 of marriage,
of course,。。。 we're living in。。。 changing times.
。。。 And people have。。。 different needs
。。。and different things 。。。that turn them 。。。on and stuff,
。。。 and I mean。。。 there's room。。。 within a marriage to。。。 change some 。。。of those standard perceptions,
I mean。。。 I think, um,。。。 I think 。。。it's important 。。。that people,
。。。that people find 。。。and make their 。。。own definitions of marriage.
I think 。。。it's important 。。。that they, 。。。that they, just,
。。。 that they seek out 。。。what's best for them,
。。。and within 。。。a marriage。。 no one 。。can touch that,。。。
。。。 that's just you 。。。and your partner,
。。。make it work 。。。however it has to,。。。 however it has to。。。 happen.

Vivian:

So, 。。。why can't。。。 the same apply。。。 for Daisy,
。。。or I mean。。。 what if her,。。。 her husband came to。。。 a mutual agreement。。。 that their marriage。。。 isn't going to 。。。go anywhere,
。。。 from here. 。。。I mean, 。。。that they mutually agree 。。。that this is 。。。the point where,
you know 。。。that they're going to.

Bow:
That's exactly。。。 what we're saying.
We want her。。。 to try something。。。 before she gives up。。。 on her marriage.

Vivian:

Not, not give up.。。。 I'm not 。。。saying try.
I'm saying 。。。they both agree。。。 that they're gonna 。。。both go their own ways,
。。and that 。。they have tried.

Luke:

I'm just saying 。。。that's a dangerous pattern 。。。to get into
. I think 。。。once you've made that...

Vivian:

Who says 。。。it's a pattern?
Doing it once ..。。。.doing it once isn't,
。。。 it's not like。。。 you're gonna divorce。。。 a hundred times 。。。in your life.

Luke:

But you might。。。 get married.
。。。 If you get married 。。。a hundred times 。。。what's to stop you。。。 from divorcing?

Daisy:

No, well, No,
I don't want to。。。 get married again.
You know,。。。 everybody doesn't have to 。。。speak。。。 for me.
I don't wanna。。。 get married again.
。。。 And the thing。。。 is I think 。。。it's probably innately human。。。 for us。。。 to want to 。。。have more than 。。。one partner,
。。。and if I married a man 。。。that can not 。。。fulfill my needs,
。。。and then 。。。why should take the responsibility 。。。and onus all 。。。by myself, 。。。to fix that.

Luke:

。。。But, people.。。。 Its works better,
。。。if you would。。。 just stay 。。。with one person,。。。 that works better.

Vivian:

。。。Why do you have to be。。。 with one person,
I never wanna。。。 get married
I'm perfectly satisfied。。。 living my own life,
。。。and you know,。。。 you can perfectly, 。。。have a partner,
。。。and not get married, 。。。you can 。。。live the rest of your life。。。 with one partner,
。。。why must you 。。。get married?
Is it some inevitable thing。。。 that you have to。。。 cross?

Daisy:

Sure,。。 and even if 。。。she doesn't want to 。。。get married,
I mean, 。。。if she chooses。。。 to have a single life.

Vivian:

And be faithful to him.

Daisy:

Or not even have 。。。a partner,
。。。or not even have 。。。a partner,
。。。in today's society,。。。
there are several options 。。。if she wanted to be。。。 a mother,
a single mother is。。 nothing new in today's society.
There's surrogate mothers,
well, I mean, 。。。you know,。。。
。。。 there's 。。。so many opportunities out there。。。 for women,
。。。why do I have to。。 choose this archaic,。。。 patriarchal,。。。 system,
。。。um that men created, 。。。marriage.

Luke:

Well, no I mean,。。。 I'm sorry it's come to。。 it that you see it。。。 that way 。。。
,。。。but I think 。。。that you are missing out 。。。on one of the great treasures of life 。。。and that's...

Vivian:
And How do you know,。。。 you're not even married,
you just have this idealistic marriage um idea 。。。in your head..

Luke:

O.K. How about this? I
'll appeal to on a more of a legalistic
and pragmatic angle, I mean,
without marriage.
You don't get all these tax-breaks 。。。and stuff 。。。and you don't get 。。。the same benefits that,
。。。that you'd get。。。 if you're married. 。。。
。。。If you're single,。。。 you're just living together。。。 that's not gonna,
。。。 that's not gonna, 。。。that's not gonna hold up 。。。in a court-of-law.
。。。There are so many benefits you get.
Just from a pragmatic point of view.

Vivian:
I'll play your game.
I'll adopt a kid, ha.

Bow:

But you won't get respect from society, s
ociety doesn't, 。。。does not 。。。respect 。。。single mothers 。。。or single women.

Vivian:
I'll donate,
I'll donate
. Why not?

Daisy:

Because society。。。 is ruled 。。。by a government of white,
conservative men, 。。。and there。。。 in lies the problem.

Vivian:

O.K. 。。。What about this?
Alright Bow,
I honestly, 。。。don't believe。。。 you are satisfied。。。 with your marriage,
you're not。。。 lustful of your wife,
。。。 and she isn't of you.
You guys 。。。are in it 。。。on your marriage,
。。。 it's a functional marriage.
You guys feel like you。。。 have to be 。。。with each other,
you have to。。。 raise this picture
(Daisy: Three kids)
perfect family, 。。。exactly,
。。。and you are。。。 tied down。。。 by your kids 。。。and your dog 。。。and your BMW and your two door garage.

Luke:

Have you never seen them togethe。。。r the way 。。。they're fawn over each other,。。。 and dote on each other?

Vivian:

In front of others, sure.

Bow:
You, just,。。。 you're saying。。。 that from lack。。。 of experience,
you just haven't 。。。been there,
once you cross over。。。 to the other side。。。 then maybe we。。。 can have this conversation.

Vivian:

I don't wanna be。。。 on the other side.
I'm perfectly happy。。。 living the life 。。that I am.

Bow:

Sure, promiscuous。。。 and just another man every other night and,
you know, 。。。you don't know。。。 if you have a disease。。。 or, you know...

Luke:

Ignorance is bliss.

Bow

: Exactly.

Vivian:

I get my pap smear every six months.

Bow:

Doesn't matter,
the thing is, it's not..,
you're just thinking about。。。 sex in the,
。。。 because of the,
the function of sex.
It just pure lust 。。。and that's not 。。。what it's all about, 。。。it's about like,。。。 yes, of course.

Daisy:

Well, you're not thinking about。。。 the lust。。。 when you use those toys。。。 with your wife?

Bow:

No, maybe, 。。。she is, 。。。but to me,
(Daisy: Maybe she is),
。。。 it's really, 。。。it's like。。。 um the ultimate of a... coming together,
。。。that fusion of marriage 。。。and love is, 。。。is intercourse,
。。。with each other。。。 and it's not just the function of it.
It's,。。。 it's more like。。。 a union of our souls coming together,
。。。 and it's not like, 。。。you know,。。。 of course,。。。 I think 。。。of other women as attractive,
wow, she is really beautiful,。。。 and but.., 。。。it's more of an attraction to my wife,
well, I mean,。。。 even when 。。。I see her naked 。。。with her stretch marks 。。。and her rolls,
。。。that's doesn't matter。。。。 to me.。。。 It's just like,。。。 I don't even see that.
级别: 管理员
只看该作者 122 发表于: 2009-02-10
sunyuting1 2008-06-09 23:12
3.Love and Marriage3的28分58秒B面开始到43分53秒语音对应的文本

SIDE B
------

Daisy:

Right, (Bow: You don't even know)
well, that's 。。。a beautiful thing,
if that's。。。 true, 。。。but some,
。。。for most people,
。。。it doesn't,。。。 love doesn't exist。。。 on that level,
。。。 and you 。。。can be 。。。with people
。。。and they become unattractive。。。 to you,
。。。 and why at this age?
My mistake was,
I'll admit it,
I don't 。。。have a problem。。。 with that。。。 I can 。。。admit my mistakes.
My mistake was 。。。marrying too young.
And now。。。 I'm at this point。。。 in my life
。。。 where I want to 。。。move on.
I need to 。。。progress, 。。。and I feel 。。。I'm not progressing 。。。with my husband,
he has not。。。 progressed.

Bow:

And 。。。how does he feel about it?
Does he know 。。。about it?

Daisy:

Well, actually he still 。。。wants to 。。。remain married,
。。。but he。。。 is still the same person。。。 that he was five years ago,
。。。 and I feel。。。 I've evolved 。。。。and I don't。。。 wanna be 。。。with him.
I can't。。。 connect 。。。with him 。。。on the same intellect,
the same level,。。。 that same soul mating t。。。hat I had 。。。with him five years ago,
is gone。。。 and I'm not 。。。attracted 。。。to him not 。。。in the slightest bit 。。。。in fact 。。。when he touches me, 。。。I'd rather puke.

Luke:

No, you're just going through a phase,
it will pass,
everybody goes through it,
that's true.
I think,。。。 I don't know, 。。。I think that 。。。attraction,
you know, 。。。comes and goes, 。。。but really when it's the, 。。。
when it's the right the thing。。。 it's never ends.

Daisy:

Believe me baby,
it's gone (Luke: No... No)

Bow:

Ah, it might also be,。。。 I mean。。。 you seem。。。 to be getting close 。。。to that。。。 age of like 。。。menopause?
So maybe that's it, 。。。like ... you know...

Vivian:

Menopause 。。。after five years of marriage 。。。when she got married young?

Daisy:

I'm only thirty years old.

Bow:

Oh, I'm sorry.

Vivian:

Anyways,。。。 I don't 。。。see the reason。。。 why someone has to。。。 remain married 。。。or get married.
I mean 。。。you can。。 seek out a different life style 。。。for yourself 。。。and that doesn't 。。mean being promiscuous every night
。。。 and sleeping 。。。with another man 。。。or woman,。。。 you can certainly...

Luke:

But It does,。。 it does mean that, 。。。if you just can't (Vivian: Why?) seem to,
。。。 if you can't 。。。seem to find。。。 that one person 。。。that does it for you,
。。。and draws you 。。。into their world 。。。so much,
you wanna be。。。 the part of that world,
you wanna, 。。。you wanna。。。 love everything。。。 about this person,
you know, 。。。you wanna know。。。 what they think 。。。
(Vivian: But why have.., why?)
you wanna know 。。。what they feel,。。。 you wanna, 。。。when you meet them you know,
food tastes better 。。。and like colors 。。。are more vibrant a。。。nd stuff.., that's...

Bow:

You leave the door open。。。 when you go to the bathroom.

Luke:

Yeah, there's a trust there, there's,
there's a fully,
there's a freedom
and there's a genuine like ecstatic
and rapturous joy,
(Daisy: Well, then let me ask you this, boy.)
that you get from just giving of yourself to another person.

Vivian:

。。。But why must you marry them,
。。。why do you have to 。。。make a vow 。。。and marry someone,
it's,。。。 it's just 。。。a piece of paper,。。。 and.., 。。。it's a license (Bow: No, no.).

Daisy:


And, further more, 。。。further more, urn,。。。
here you are 。。。Bow, you know, 。。。
going on 。。。and on 。。。and on about 。。。the virtues of a marriage,
。。。your marriage values。。。 when you walked。。。 into that sanctified。。。 institution called the church,
。。。 told you。。。 that you were only allowed 。。。to have sexual relations 。。。with your wife,
。。。and here you are,。。。 inviting virtual strangers。。。 into your boudoir.
。。。And how can。。。 you justify that?

Bow:

Excuse me, 。。。Miss, not at all。。。
. It's was。。。 actually 。。。in a synagogue ...
。。。 and our rules are different there.

Daisy:

Excuse me。。。 the Jewish the,。。。 the Jewish religion says。。。 that you can 。。。invite strangers。。。 into your bedroom.

Bow:

Yes.

Daisy:

I think not.

Luke:

Actually, not. It's yeah,
not it's doesn't actually says that,
I don't think,
。。。 but, but, it goes back to。。。 my other point earlier that,
。。。 like it's not always the letter of the law.
Sometimes you have to。。。 you have to 。。abide 。。。by the spirit 。。。of the law?
Do you know。。。 what I'm saying, people?

Vivian:

And 。。。what is the law?。。。
What, what? 。。。The words。。。 on the certificate。。。 of your marriage license?

Luke:

Well, actually,。。。 it doesn't come 。。。in a certificate。。。 with like little rules on it.

Daisy:

。。。 Because the government says 。。。you're allowed to。。。 live。。。 and fornicate 。。。with this person?
Then it's okay.

Luke:

Well, it was not only O.K. Yes,。。。
it's great。。。 that you can。。。 that you can know。。。 that this person is gonna be。。。 for you there.
All the time through thick 。。。and thin you know, 。。。
no matter 。。。what kind of trials 。。。and tribulations live。。。 can throw at you.

Daisy:

Well,。。。 what kind of person is gonna be there,
。。。 because I'm not gonna be there。。。 for my husband,。。。 I want a divorce.

Luke:

。。。But then you're not。。。 keeping up your end of。。。 the agreement that you've made.

Daisy:

The agreement that。。。 what my local government。。。 or my senate told me that I had to fulfill?

Luke:

Hey, hey!

Vivian:

The agreement that。。。 went void and null.

Luke:

No, no, no, you, they,。。。 the government didn't force you。。。 to get married,
I'm sorry.。。。 But I mean, 。。。you took。。。 that decision upon yourself.

Daisy:

I did,。。。 and I admitted my mistake,
。。。that I made a mistake;
I got 。。。married。。。 to the wrong guy.
。。。 But how 。。。can you sit there in your,
。。。 on your sanctimonious pedestal
(Vivian: Single)
。。。and tell me。。。 that I should。。。 stay 。。。with this me 。。。who I'm totally,
100%, unhappy ,,,and unsatisfied with.
。。。 And I can't 。。。move on。。。 with my life?
Give me one 。。。good reason.

Luke:

O.K. Alright. If you,。。。 I guess。。。 if you, 。。。if you 。。。acknowledge t。。。hat you've made a mistake,
I guess 。。。I'll have to。。 I'll say 。。。alright on that.
。。。But I still think。。。 that you've。。。 taken the wrong turn,
T don't think。。。 that you should give up 。。。on the institution of marriage,
。。。 or the institution of love,
you know,。。。 I mean of,。。。 like forever love,
you know, 。。。the kind of love that just keeps on giving and giving.

Bow:

You haven't tried hard enough.

Daisy:

Well, maybe, somewhere down 。。on the track,。。。
if you guys give me 。。。
let me get a divorce,
I might 。。。find that guy.

Luke:

No, I mean,。。。 it's, i。。。t's a free country,
you can do 。。。whatever you want.
I'm just saying 。。。don't sell yourself short 。。。by saying like。。。 the whole thing's a sham.
I mean, 。。。obviously,。。 there has to be 。。some kind of merit to it,
look 。。。how many people do it?
(Bow: Exactly)
Everybody gets married
; it's the thing to do.

Vivian:

And everybody gets divorced these days,
look at the divorce rate
. It's about fifty percent now,
for the past twenty years.

Luke:

I'm not saying that's right.
I don't think that's right,
I think that's wrong.

Daisy:

。。。 Because people go。。。 into marriage 。。。for the wrong reasons,
(Vivian: Exactly)
and they do it 。。。because they want to 。。。conform to society.

Vivian

: And too soon without knowing。。。 for sure 。。。that they really want to。。。 commit to。。。 that sort of relationship,
。。。why must you commit to,
you can 、、、get married 、、、at the age of forty、、、 for the first time
。。。and only time in your life.
(Luke: Sure) (Daisy: Hey man)
You can 。。。find the one committed partner 。。。and live。。。 with them or have relations 。。。with them f。。。or twenty,
thirty years without having a marriage license,
to bond you guys together.

Luke:

Oh, no, no, well of course,
well O.K. I believe you can find。。。 that love at any point in your life.

Vivian:

So as long as you've found that love,
。。。that, that one person, 。。。right,。。。 in your book,
you don't 。。。have to。。。。 get married.
。。。 After you find that person,
then you can。。。 go ahead 。。。and get married。。。 if you want to,
。。。 but why force it 。。。on someone else。。。 when it may not suit them,
。。。maybe it was a mistake.

Bow:

I'll tell you why. 。。。It's because。。。 you can 。。。never really trust your partner 。。。until you have that commitment.
The sign on the dotted line,
。。。until you have。。。 that then there's an ultimate trust it goes。。 beyond human, urn,
intellect, you can't 。。。even imagine,。。。 what it's like..,。。。 cause you're not married.

Vivian:

Then, perhaps your love is 。。。not as solid as 。。you think 。。。it is if you need a signature on a dotted line,
。。。 instead of the trust。。。 and the bond 。。。and the honesty 。。。that you have 。。。with each other.

Daisy:

O.K, 。。。if you are right Bow,
the things。。。 that melds。。。 and meshes two people together。。。 is that signature on the dotted line.
。。。Then how 。。。do you feel 。。。about the fact 。。。that my sister,
。。。who I love 。。。with all my heart 。。。and my soul,
。。。 who's been。。。 there through thick and thin, 。。。all the things in my life.
I could 。。。go on 。。。for so long,。。。 but that's an another story.
She is。。。 a lesbian,。。。 and I'm proud to。。。 say that,
I don't have。。。 any problems 。。。with saying that
. I don't。。。 I don't. 。。。But anyway she is。。。 a lesbian 。。。and she is 。。。in involved 。。。in a relationship now,
she's fifteen years older 。。。than me 。。。by the way,
she's forty-five, 。。。she's been 。。。in involved。。。 in a relationship now。。。 for twenty years.
Twenty years,。。。 they've been devoted to。。。 each other
they have an adopted child;
they love each other 。。。with all their heart.
They're wonderful,。。。 they're,。。。 they're better than you,
。。。 and Mary Lou, they don't。。。 even have to。。。 bring in toys 。。。and other women or whatever,
。。。but they are completely happy together,
。。。and they can't 。。。get married,
they can't。。。 sign 。。。on that dotted line, 。。。and what do you。。 have to say that.

Bow:

Let me respond to that,
urn, you know, 。。。because your sister is 。。。a sexual deviant。。。 in our society,
um, you know, 。。。she's not able to 。。。actually。。。 have a real marriage 。。。and I think 。。。she's probably regrets that.

Daisy:

Excuse me, deviant?。。。 Wasn't it you telling us about 。。。you bring strangers。。。 into your bedroom?

Bow:

That was a sacrifice 。。。to keep my marriage alive.

Vivian:

And isn't。。。 that 。。。I think that marriage.

Daisy:

I think you are a hypocrite.

Vivian:

And those marriage vows are
(Luke: Hey,)
supposed to be about,。。。 they're supposed。。。 to be。。。 between two 。。。and there's supposed to be 。。。sacred。。。 in your words.
。。。 But they're not sacred anymore。。。 after you've invited half the neighborhood。。。 into your bedroom.

Luke:

Well, O.K. What is the goal of sex?
I mean, 。。。what is the whole point of it?
Is it for pleasure?
Well, maybe as a sort of distraction,
I mean,。。。 I think 。。。the purpose is 。。。for procreation.
I don't think t。。he people should just be。。。 getting together。。。 and shagging just 。。。to have like.

Daisy:

This is the misconception 。。。that rest of the society,
。。。especially the male population 。。。seems to have.
A homosexual relationship 。。。is not about sex,
。。。it's about the fact。。。 that two people。。。 love each other,
just as same as 。。。a man 。。。and a woman。。。 love each other,
they don't feel 。。。that way。。。 with another person.
They only feel。。。 that way。。。 with one another,
。。。 because the person they're 。。。with is their soul mate,
the person you're seeking,
Luke. So you're sitting there,
on your little preaching pedestal,
。。。telling me 。。。about going out 。。。and finding your soul mate,
。。。 when my sister 。。。has her soul mate,
。。。she's been 。。with her。。。 for twenty years,
faithful, Bow. Hasn't had。。。 any strangers。。。 in the bedrooms.
She is happy, 。。。and they're together.
。。。 And they're solid 。。。and they are solidified,。。。 they're gel.

Luke:

I don't think that, 。。。I don't think that 。。。they have。。。 monogamous relationships
(Bow: Yeah),
I think。。。 they're always is,。。。 you gotta admit 。。。with homosexual relationships
。。。, there's always some fooling around, ..
. if you have guys...

Vivian:

Why, I'm sorry.

Daisy:


No, No, I'm sorry,。。。 I know。。。 my sister, 。。。I know her,。。。 you don't...

Bow:

And also, with lesbians,
I mean, I'm sure that they're not totally sexual satisfied,
yeah, how could they be?
I mean,。。。 just tongues 。。。and fingers...what.... I don't...

Vivian:

And neither。。。 are you。。。 and that's。。。 why you need your dildo, right?

Daisy:

Yeah, well, obviously,
you're doing something wrong, Bow. (Bow: Well...)

Vivian:

Aren't performing up to your...

Bow:

No, see you don't understand,
I'm just..,
it's just to be, 。。。it's just to be creative
(Vivian: Pardon? Pardon?)
in the bedroom 。。。and not keep it monotonous 。。。and um... to
... you know, 。。。it's just to keep it spicy,
it's just a little extra, 。。。extra added on.

Vivian:

Well maybe 。。。if you had。。。 the equipment too, 。。。you wouldn't need it。。。 any other equipment?

Luke:

I tell you 。。。what's monotonous?
Monotonous is 。。。like going out every night
, picking up some like。。 babe in a bar,。。。 taking her home,
(Vivian: Like you do, uh?)
。。。and having like。。。 wild sex 。。。with them。。。 and then waking up 。。。in the morning,
。。。they make you breakfast。。。 and they leave.

Bow:

It's disgusting.

Luke

: It's terrible
, I don't,
it's just,
it doesn't do it for me.

Vivian:
You don't believe in it,
you just practice it.

Daisy:

Well, that's fine.
My sister is。。。 not doing that 。。。and her partner isn't 。。。doing。。。 that either,
。。。why can't 。。。she have 。。。the same right as you
, I want,。。 if marriage's alright。。。 for you and Mary Lou, Bow.
。。。 I want it to be alright for Helen, I'm ready.

Luke:

Fair enough, 。。。fair enough.
I'll side。。。 with you on that.
I'll say that,。。。 I'll say that。。。 the institution of love and marriage,
。。。it goes beyond anything,。。 beyond like。。。 a sexual orientation,
。。。 beyond a, 。。。race, creed,。。。 color belief,。。。 anything.
I think。。。 the love is。。。 the thing that,。。。 that, erases all those boundaries,
all those distinctions 。。。that we try to。。。 build up。。。 between each other.
I think。。。 love is 。。。the great bulldozer。。。 of ideological conflict.
And I think 。。。that is the thing, 。。。that is the thing。。。
the main。。。, the most important thing 。。。that the big the enforcer,。。。 the prime mover of love.

Vivian:
Yes, sir, I mean...?
Jimmy Swaggart? Amen.

Luke:

It's marriage, 。。。it's marriage..,。。。 that's what makes it love.

Daisy:

Well, and 。。。why can't they 。。。have marriage?

Vivian:

Why can't you not have marriage?

Daisy: Answer my question!

Luke:

I agree, I agree, 。。they should,。。。 I mean, 。。。thinking it over,。。。 I think that they should,
if they're truly in love, 。。。and they truly wanna 。。。go all the way with it,
。。。and they're having the kind of thing。。。 I've been。。。 dreaming of all these years,
then。。。 who am I to say。。。 that they can'。。。 have that?
Or that 。。。they shouldn't be able to, to..
. make it alright,。。。 but then you're contradicting yourself you're saying that,。。。 that they should get married.

Bow:

I'm sorry.

Daisy: Well, 。。。I'm saying。。。 that they found each other, t。。。hat's fine.
In my case。。。, I haven't found 。。。that person.
I'm 。。。a completely different case,
Luke, completely different.

Luke:

But,。。。 if you found。。。 that person,。。。 would you get married again?

Daisy:

。。。 If I was able to find 。。。that person。。。 who satisfied me on every level,
emotionally, 。。。physically, 。。。sexually, 。。。
yes. I would 。。。go for it.。。。 I would get the 。。。whole kit 。。。and caboodle.

Bow:

Yeah, and five years later? Divorce.

Vivian:

。。。Why does the epitome of life 。。。have to 。。。surround a companion。。。 or marriage,
。。。or love.。。。 Why do you need that? 。。。Why can't you have a..。。。. fulfill your life 。。。and have a satisfying life。。。 with work 。。。and friends 。。。and a nice social life?

Bow:

Uh? You know 。。。humans are。。。 innately gorgeous,。。。 they need。。。 people around them. (Luke: Yeah)

Vivian:

Yeah, I've got lots of people around me,
what about it?

Luke:

That's not the same thing.
I mean 。。。having friends 。。。and loose contacts 。。。and acquaintances 。。。and stuff, that's,
。。。that's shallow, I mean 。。。everybody has。。 that。。。 and of course。。。 it's important 。。。but what you are looking for,
the whole point of life, 。。。I believe, 。。。is making。。。 that one true commitment,
。。。where you just。。。 give everything of yourself, 。。。and you don't even know。。。 where, you stop, 。。。and the other person begins.

Daisy:


O.K. We've heard it all before Luke,
。。。 and actually, you know。。。, I know that, um,。。。 most of you know, 。。。I've known 。。。 Luke: 。。。for quite a while and...
。。。 There are a few things 。。。in your argument 。。。that don't quite,。。。 kind of gel, Luke,
。。。like for example,。。。 you're saying 。。。that when you're 。。。with a woman you let her know。。。 that you're looking for 。。。something more 。。。and then you go ahead。。。 and you have relations。。。 with her。。。 and if it's doesn't work out, 。。。you move on, 。。
is that 。。。what you tell, um, 。。。the women you hired down 。。。on the corner of fifth avenue?

Luke:

Hey, hey, hey..,。。。 don't go。。。 slinging mud 。。。at me now..,
。。。 that's a,。。。 that's a whole different, 。。。that's a whole different,
。。。I'm not even gonna comment,。。。 I'm not even gonna justify those comments.

Vivian:

And, and you're talking about。。。 this cycle。。。 that's going to form
, well I mean。。。 throwing away,
throwing away each women 。。。after every night one night stand,
I mean 。。。isn't 。。。that forming a cycle just like,
she's gonna divorce.

Daisy:

What about 。。。those women feelings?
Do you think 。。。that they're chattels?

Luke:

Hey, I don't,。。。 I'm not talking about 。。。one night stands here,
I'm talking 。。。several nights, you know, 。。。several...

Vivian:

Several nights...

Luke:

Several nights to 。。。work out some sort of 。。。like rapport 。。。with the person,
I mean, 。。。the initial rapport, 。。。like in a bar, 。。。night club。。。 or something.
And maybe 。。。you'll have 。。。a bit of rapport,
。。。and you'll go home 。。。and get you get,。。。 more, more of a rapport...

Vivian:

。。。And the next night 。。。you just can't。。。 send her home, 。。。so you (Daisy: Yeah) have another night。。。 with her?

Luke:

Yeah, 。。。but I'll know, 。。。I'll so.

Daisy:

。。。 What's the criteria 。。。you're judging these women on,
well, I mean, 。。。do you find out 。。。if they can 。。。cook。。。 or do you find out 。。。if they can 。。。do your laundry well enough?
。。。 Or if they can iron? 。。。or you know...

Luke:


No, no, no, no,
I mean, 。。。just like a, 。。。you know,。。。 little things like。。。 compatibility things just like, 。。。just things they might say 。。。or do 。。。or maybe they just..
。。。, like certain things 。。。about them.
。。It has nothing to。。。 do with that.。。。 I said before, 。。。I think I said。。。 that before.

Vivian:

How they perform in bed?

Vivian:

So 。。。why don't you。。。 be more specific?
。。。What about 。。。what they say 。。。or do or what...


sunyuting1 2008-06-10 18:31
4.Love and Marriage分拆4的B面43分53秒开始到58分08秒结束语音对应的文本

Luke:

Well, I don't know, ...like if I say something ...to them,...
and I think that, ...that one thing they would say... would be... really funny,
...and then they say... something totally different.
... That's a sure sign.... that maybe.... it's not meant to be,
.... like I want someone ...who's kind of like... a mirror reflection of me,
as a woman,... and I don't think ...that's asking too much.

Daisy:

,,,Why don't you,,, marry your mirror?

Vivian:

... And you're not answering... in the question.
... Why you have to.... conform to... society's ideal picture?
... Where you have to ...find... that other love... in your life ...and marry them?
I mean... why can't you live... a life like me?
I have a, ...nice job ...and I'm satisfied ...with what I do...
... and have many friends ...
and I have... a companion, I have a companion,.
.. but we've come to... mutual understanding... that we will not marry ...but we're still,
we're so ...committed to ...each other.

Daisy:

And your... in a monogamous relationship,
right, ...she's having sex.... with one person,
... they're happy, ....but they don't want, ...they, their relationship
(Luke: But)
excuse me,... is on a completely different spiritual plane
(Vivian: and...)
they don't ...need the signature.... on the dotted line.

Vivian:

And ... since we're not restricted ....to your morality rules,
we can probably ge...t divorced any time we want to, huh?

Luke:

Well,... I just think... you're full of hot air though.... I think... you just like,
....I think you're just talking,.... I mean it's like....
"oh we have this big thing ....and it's a spiritual plane.
Well, ....put your money ....where your mouth is.... and sign the dotted line?

Daisy:

Oh Ye who has no partner.

Luke:

Hey, at least I'm looking, ....and I know.... what I'm looking for.

Vivian:

And a blank dotted line.

Luke:

Yeah, ...but at least,... I know... what I'm looking for.

Vivian:

I know ....what I'm looking for....; I've found ....what I'm looking for.

Luke:


So marry it.

Vivian:

I don't ...wanna marry it, ....I'm happy.... I am,.... I am perfectly satisfied,
.... I'm not ....insecure enough... to need... that signature,
... I have his signatures ...all over...

Bow:

Yes you are..., yes you are, ....that's ...why you're not doing it
(Luke: right).

Vivian:

Why, why?

Daisy:

You guys ...have no idea... what you are... talking about.

Bow:

You're just gonna be a,... a black sheep... in society,
people are... not gonna respect you
(Vivian: Exactly ...that's exactly ....what I'm talking about...)
... as a couple.... and it seems like.... you just you have.... no respect ....for society,
...because... you're just gonna living sin...., and then once you guys are...

Vivian:

Why is it sin?... Living in sin?... Why must... I conform to...?

Daisy:

Sin? ...Sin,... don't go... there Bow-,
sin? Excuse me,... who's been sinning Bow?

Vivian:

Go back to... your synagogue.

Bow:

What?

Luke:

People gonna laugh ...at you guys, ...you know.

Vivian:

Why,... What is ...conforming to ...society?
... Why must you conform to... this ideal ...that society upholds... to you.

Bow:

Do you always... have to be... a rebel?
You always... have to be deviant?

Vivian:

Yeah, I'm a rebel ...without a cause.

Daisy:

And you!!

Bow:

No, ...and then ...the first time... that you have,
...like a small little tiff.... then anyone... can just leave
...and that's the end ...of the relationship,
... and then ....what do you do?
You are either left alone,
...or you have to ...do go ...and ...do the same thing over again.
You have ....your one night stand ...and do all this disgusting stuff?

Vivian:

I, you know what, ...you know ....that I've never had,
...I've never cheated ....out my man, and ...

Bow:

How would I know?

Vivian:

... And you know ....what I just said, ....yes, exactly,...
I don't have.... that piece of paper, ....that holds us together,
... and bonds us together, ....
...we have our own respect ....and the trust.... that we have.... with each other...

Bow:

It's a facade.

Vivian:

Facade?

Daisy:

I'll tell you ...what, ...facade,... facade.... Well, here you go...
.... I mean,... I've been married... for five years
.... and ...what am I seeking... after five years,
... of this marital bliss... that you guys... are talking about.
... I'm seeking freedom, ...absolutely,... I want freedom,
.... I want the freedom ...to go here... and go there... and then ...to come home... when I want to.
... And... if I wanna bring him home... then that's ...who I'll bring home ....that's ...what I'm seeking.
... I want freedom. ...I want control over my life, ...I don't want anyone... whether it ...be the government,
...or men to tell me... what to do.

Luke:

O.K. Fair enough. ...But you gotta understand ...that it won't be like... that forever,
I mean... you're not gonna... want it once... you get it again,
... you're not gonna... want... that kind of freedom,
...you're gonna,... you're gonna... seek out the kind of freedom ...that all people really ...want deep down inside ...whether they acknowledge it ...or not.
...And that is ...the freedom to ...fully give of themselves... to another person
... and to be ...bonded forever ...in holy matrimony.

Vivian:

Well, I'll agree, ...up to everything you said, ...except the holy matrimony,
the last two words, ...why holy matrimony, ...why do you need that piece of paper, ...sorry, you don't...

Bow:

Course you think like that, ...you're like a satanist, ...you're living in sin.

Vivian:

Oh, my goodness.

Daisy:


Oh, he ...who he ....who has not... sinned throw the first, stone.

Bow:

... What're you talking about? ...You married... your high school sweetheart,
....that's the only girl... you were ever with,... look at that, t
...hey've been together,... how many, ...how many years like.., like...

Vivian:

And the other woman he's invited... into their bedrooms.

Bow:

We've lost our virginities together.

Daisy:
Excuse me;
there are many mansions... in the lords house.

Bow:

What?

Vivian:

Speechless, hey?

Luke:


Well, I don't know.

Daisy:

He ...who is sitting there telling us about, ...religion, ...and holy vows,
... you've breaking yours ...several times already.

Bow:

Oh yeah,... well people ...who live in glass houses... take showers... in the basement alright?

Daisy:

Ha Ha.

Luke:


Come on, ...let's not throw stick ...and stones... at each other, guys!
Let's get... together on this.

Daisy:

Well the problem is ...that we have fundamental differences here
.... I believe ...that I should be ...in control of my freedom... and I don't... want a man to ...dictate that,
and Viv,... Viv just wants... to be able to... have her relationship ...on her own terms.

Luke:

O.K. well,,,, this shouldn't become ,,,a battle of the sexes;
... I don't wanna sound like ...I coming off preaching... as a man to... a woman,
... I'm just talking about like...

Daisy:

Well you are.

Luke:

Well, I'm just talking about like,... well, ...but,... just because I'm a man,
... but if I was ...a woman saying this... to you,
...would you feel that, ...you know, ...you're being railed ...at by another woman,
no, ...just because... I'm a man, ...that doesn't mean that,... doesn't meant that,
...I'm trying to ...take the male view point... and try to... lord things... over you
.... I'm just saying ...that my point of view is that,...
... love is eternal... and love is great,... it's the only thing,... love redeems alt,...
... it's the most important thing, ...and marriage make it real.

Vivian:

...This is the man... that said ...that it is O.K.... for man ...to hit a woman.
You know why...

Luke:

I didn't say it was O.K.

Bow:

But it is.

Daisy:

Luke, Luke,... you would agree... with me... that this society is... a patriarchal society, right?

Luke:

To a degree.

Daisy:

To a degree.... Which degree... would that be?

Luke:

..To a large degree.

Daisy:

O.K. ...and women... when they enter the institution... of marriage,
... they are, ...whether they do it ...subconsciously ....or consciously,
... expected to ...perform a certain role,.... and they fall into that role,
...because the society ...wants them to... fall into ...that role,
.. and I don't, ...except that,... I reject that, I,...
. I absolutely reject that, ...I'm looking ...for something more... in my life,
...I don't want to be... another statistic ...in society.
... I've already made myself... that.... I'm a divorce, ...or almost.
... I don't wanna be... this woman... who cooks ...and cleans ..
.and is bare-foot ...and pregnant ..
.for someone, ...for somebody ...who doesn't even appreciate it.

Vivian:

And the reason... why it is pointless... to point this out ...to Bow ...and Luke,
..is because,... you guys are... stuck ...in your own little worlds over there,
...and Bow,... you're not even married,... you haven't even found... your companion, do you?

Bow:

I am married.

Vivian:

Oh, I'm sorry, ..Luke, Luke,... you haven't even found ...your companion,
...you're still ...going out there night ..after night,
... banging this girl ..and that, ...and...

Luke:

Hey, hey, hey, hey.

Vivian:

OK. You say.. that you want to... make this commitment.
... After you've made... that step then... come back to us ...and preach to us, ..okay?

Luke:

Alright,.. look. ...I think ..I can be ..allowed... to dream
, I mean,... I'm just,... I'm just..., of course, ...we're all just giving our opinions ...on these things.

Vivian:

Dream ...weaver.

Luke:

I'm not saying,... I'm not trying to ...come off as being condescending
...and trying to... preach ...or lord anything ..over anybody,
...I'm just saying that like,... sometimes... you have to ...look at things... beyond yourself,
... you have to, ...you have to,... have faith... in something... that's bigger.. that yourself.

Daisy:

Please ...do that.... Please ...look beyond yourself here.

Luke:

Well, I'm trying to.

Vivian:

...You know... I could look ...at it... from your point of you ...and you say,
look at you, ...you hypocritical prick,... go and find yourself a companion,
... go and get married. ...Why don't... you get married.
...Why haven't you found your,... found your other love... your other companion.

Daisy:

...And what about, ...how many girls... are we talking about here?
...How many ...in general terms?

Vivian:

...And what girl,... if I happened... to be that girl,
...I wouldn't ...want you, ...because you're ...dirty now, ...you're filthy dirty,
(Luke: Hey, hey...)
you’ve been... with every other girl ...on the block,
...you are ...used property ...and nobody... wants to ...buy used cars anymore,
.... they just don't... run like they used to.

Daisy:

....Why buy the cow,... when you can... get the milk... for free?

Luke:

...Come on,... don't turn this on me..., alright?
I'm doing my thing with...

Vivian:

...You know ...you're doing ...your thing.

Luke:

... I and,... and don't ...get the wrong idea... about ...what I'm doing,
..either. ...It's a, ...it's a very ...chaste situation ..I'm doing.

Vivian:

Honorable?

Luke: ...Yeah. ...I'm very honorable,
...I'm a gentleman..., damn it.

Daisy:

...Well, ...gentleman, ...well, O.K.... I'm not,... I'm neither a gentleman... or lady,...
... and I'm proud of that,... because... I am ...who I am.
... I wanna be... free to ...experience things... and.. whether that means,
... me being ...with either a man ...in marriage, ...or woman... in a marriage,
... I wanna be.. free to.. explore all avenues.

Luke:

So, ...what you're gonna be... a lesbian now?

Bow:

You're a lesbian... like your sisters?

Luke:

....lust ...because your marriage doesn't work out?
... See,.. this is... what I'm talking about.
... People go off these roads less travelled,.... that are really just deviant
..., and really not right, ...and don't contribute to ...the procreation of human kind.

Daisy:

Well, maybe.

Vivian:

What makes it not right?

Luke:

Because the divorce, ...the divorce,... the divorce makes...

Daisy:

...I travelled... the road less travelled ....and that made... all the difference.

Luke:

No, ...that's not ...how it goes.

Vivian:

And ...what if Daisy, ...were not to ...get a divorce,
... what if she weren't to... get a divorce,
... but still seek out ...other mates,... like Bow,
... in his righteous marriage ...is doing right now.

Bow:

No. ...I didn't seek out ...other mates
.... I just said ...that the.., ...my significant other.

Vivian:

...You said,... you said ..bring it on!

Bow:

...I accepted her proposal... if that would ...spice up and... bring some creativity... to the bedroom,
...that's all,... and the bedroom is... only one ...aspect of the marriage
..., there's so many ...other aspects of it,
...you haven't ...even touched on it.

Daisy:

...Did it hurt you?... Did it hurt you,... though;... Bow, ...
...when she is... screaming another man's name?

Bow:

...That is a.. little painful but,... something... that I can... get over,
...well, I mean,... I'm doing it ...for the, ...ultimate goal of,
...keeping the marriage together, ...I mean,.. its hard work... like people say, but...

Daisy:

I've got this, ...you know, ...I have this problem here
..., I think, Bow, ...is more concerned ...with the marriage ...than he is ...with the relationship.

Luke:

No, no, no.

Vivian:

... And upholding the image of... how it looks to... other people.

Bow:

...That is part of it, ...but that, ...you are... totally missing the point,
there's ...so much more... to it... than that,
...we have... an understanding... between each other,
...which, ...you guys seem like,
.... obviously will don't understand.... and never understand.

Vivian:

No.... because I'm saying... the same thing... to you
...., I have an understanding ...with my companion
(Bow: No, ...that's not ...an understanding).

Vivian:

....I mean,... so, ...why can't you not be... with each other ...and have,
...actually, ...which is the most innocent,
....and most simple kind of love,
... is the understanding.... and the trust... that you have... with each other.
... Which come to... the question..., what is love?
.... What is your understanding of love?
.... Having a piece of paper? Vows
.. (Luke: No.)
.... in front of a preacher?
...(Luke: No.)
...Then... what is your... idea of love?

Luke:

...The vows come... after the love.
.... The vows ...and the paper ...are just a sort;... of, ...sort of, ...
an affirmation ...and Public statement like.

Vivian:

A seal of approval.

Luke

: Yeah,... O.K. it can mean... that if you like it,
... but..., I mean, ....the bottom line is... love is... what love is,
... and I mean ...and I guess ...it's just it's different to.
... different people, ...well I mean.... I guess, ...I just, ...I have a deeper understating of it,
....and ...that's all.

Vivian:

.... I think... that's exactly ...what the problem is;
.... the definition of... love is ...so different ...for all of us,
....that we're coming ...at opposite ends... of each other.
... Bow,... apparently thinks... that love ...is the fulfillment of
.. (Daisy: Marriage, marriage)
....society's ideal of marriage, ...and having, ...
....creating... that perfect home... and family well,
....Luke is ...still searching... to fulfill those shoes,
...and Daisy, ...here thinks ...she thought ...that she was... conforming,
....and then... that was probably... the right thing to do,
..... but comes to realize... that she has evolved into... a different person
.... and this may not be... exactly... what she was ...looking for.
....She was a little too,... eager to... maybe step into ...the role... that society has ...expected of her.

Daisy:

...Well, you know,... I guess, ...look,... all I can say... is that,
... when ...I went into this, ...I was young,... and I really didn't know ...what I know now,
....I thought ...I was in love... with this guy,
.... I thought I knew ...this guy, ...I didn't know ...this guy.
... And he just wasn't, ...how can I say?...
.... I really, ...he just couldn't... satisfy me,
.... in many ways..., physically,... spiritually, ...and on a emotional level.
... I feel I've grown, ..and.. I feel... that he hasn't grown
.... And I'm... at this place... in my life ...right now,
... where I'm feeling, ...boxed in.... I feel like ...I can't breath ...I want to break free.
... I want to be ...on my own..... I want that freedom.
....I'm seeking essentially freedom.
...That's ...what I'm looking for... and I know... that I'm not gonna ...be able to find it ...with my husband.
.... I want to move on.... I'm ready to move on. ...
...This is ...my right of passage... in my life.
...This is ...my epiphany.., ...if you like.

Luke:

...Okay.... I understand ....where you're coming from... and um,
.... I feel for you. ...I have a great amount of compassion,
.... for your situation,.... and I don't ....wanna come off as being vindictive ...or anything.
... And I just hope... that what,... what we've spoken about ...here,
...will maybe sway you back to... the side of,... of love, ...and to the side of,...
... of that holy institution of marriage.
....Because you had... a bad experience.
... You weren't ...the first one,... I mean, ...many people... have had these experience
.... I've had them myself. ...I didn't take it ...as far of course,
...but I mean, ....we all have had.
....We've all loved ...and lost.
...We've all had, ...you know,... love unrequited,
... but I think... that the thing... is that ....we should ...all hopefully come away... with it ...at the end of this discussion,
.... is that ...love conquers all.... And we should... never give up on it.

Bow:
..
..... I think ...the marriage.... is on many different levels
....and there are ...problems... on certain levels,
....and you just have to ...solve those problem... where you can.
....You guys are... totally off,... way off base... with what you're talking about
.... and I think... you should ...reconsider your opinions.

Vivian:

....Speaking of way ...of bases... is you, Bow.
....I mean... with your sanctuary love ....and your devoted family ....and this and that,
... and then... you go off ...and invite other people... into your bedroom?
... That's ...what I just ...call ridiculous,
O.K. ...you don't need... a piece of paper ...to say...
... that you are going to be... together forever,... that's just ...a piece of paper,
...and... if you love each other, ...and trust each other...
.... and have an enough respect... for each other,
.....you don't ...need anything to say... that yes we give you permission... to be together.

Daisy:

But I still love you guys.

Luke:

Yeah, I guess... that's the bottom line.

Bow:

Love conquers all.

Vivian:

We're still friends, O.K.
级别: 管理员
只看该作者 123 发表于: 2009-02-10
sunyuting1 2008-07-13 07:17
练习《听说大突破》方法过程体会小结:

练习第一遍《听说大突破》用了4天时间,基本语音、文本和理解,说明压码听懂练习法,可以解决此类高难度专题讨论的快速练习问题。实际上是将高难度语音转变为一般难度的语音问题。开始快速练习就象浏览英语一样,对整个语音有一个整体理解记忆。
练习《听说大突破》第二遍结束了,用了一个月时间,基本与预期时间接近。练习向深度理解记忆发展,更注重了英语细节的理解记忆,注重了专题语音向相关英语的报纸的拓展训练。
我们回忆一下练习的过程:
1、整理文本采用回车键快速练习,快速将语音停顿和文本回行相接合,将1-6个磁带语音分解成24个分拆语音,四天就练习了一遍,消除英语的障碍,属于浏览练习的简单练习压码听懂练习,解决了压码听写、压码注音、压码跟读、压码听看读《听说大突破》的速度难度、长度难度和文本语音不同步、多语音干扰话的高难度语音向简单语音过渡练习的问题,经过整理文本,《听说大突破》语音就可以变成和《你好美国》语音一样难度的语音,其他遇到难度较大的语音都可以采取同样的措施,一个 小时即可化难为简;
2、整理文本采用“。”键慢速练习,将语音的句子整理在以行中,而将句子中的停顿采用。。。。省略号在一行中进行分割,便于复习语音阅读理解完整的句子;
4、整理文本采用语音频谱图相同的大句子停顿间隔练习,将整理过的文本可以复制到英文通软件上进行,可以保证甃是看到语音音频图和整理文本在一个画面里进行压码听语音、看文本、看音频图结合练习,便于看频谱图记忆文本,而其他的整理文本方式不能解决集合在一个画面压码听看读的问题;
5、整理文本采用在原来文本中修改原文错误文本练习,一边听语音,一边将语音和文本原文不同的地方纠正过来,因为多人对话语音,既有每人的反复重复的碎句子,又又多人同时枪话题的相互干扰,听写这样的语音难度很大,用原作者郑赞容老师的听写的文本,听语音、看文本很容易跟丢,其实听写改错很简单,只要将每个句子的错误主要是重复语音丢掉的语音文本一边听语音,看文本,快速压码打字就可以解决,全部的错误大约有6000多处,目前改错还不够全面,基本是一个语音改2遍,基本不影响文本阅读为止;
6、重点练习了压码听懂练习的心念阅读理解、记忆练习,心念压码抄写阅读、心念压码注音的音节字头字母,方法很简单:就是看一个文本的句子,采用慢速心念回想,腹部用力呼气的方法阅读,阅读的语音慢速慢到和心念压码抄写同步的速度,一个句子练习以后压码回想一遍用语检验理解记忆,心念压码注音只是将心念手中按压书写减少到每个句子音节的字母就可以了,开始练习用手写在手心里面进行位置不懂画动,熟练了将画动变为按压靠意念记忆单词和语音;
7、压码听写心念练习,可以在听语音时闭眼心念压码听写语音文本和闭眼压码心念注音练习,这样将理解记忆语音、文本和意思结合起来练习,便于闭眼回忆文本或者场景的图象,放松听语音不看文本练习可以任意实现音、形、意之间的转化,进入压码状态可以使每个语音练习不同的时候大脑浮现不同的场景图象,加深相关场景的图象变化联想能力,重点练习了《宗教和哲学》的语音内容,一遍练习看到的图象一个样,深度不断加深理解记忆,使听懂语音不再局限到文本字面意思,而不断深入到相关理论的经典文章;
8、有压码听懂引伸到压码读报纸,利用闭眼心念压码听写、闭眼压码注音、闭眼压码浮现场景的图象线索,进行网站相关内容的搜索阅读,对一个语音专题不断深化理解,层层深入,压码的听懂过程中,加入压码读报纸练习整理到论坛,由于压码听懂理解记忆练习《听说大突破》可以将书面语音分解为碎句子,所以看着书面语言的网站相关专题文章,就可以自己组织语言进行专题口语讨论练习;
9、随着练习听说大突破的深入练习,解决了听懂理解记忆和书面语言转化为碎句子的口语方式,这时可以练习压码法的中文方法文章,看这中文压码听清后怎样练习压码听懂的方法快速大量说口语练习,这不是中文翻译英文练习,而是压码听懂的口语复述练习,因为采用实际说口语的碎句子,重复句子,一个句子不同说法的练习,是对实际应用听说大突破的口语成果检验练习,压码法的中文起到英语思维的引导的作用。


sunyuting1 2008-07-13 07:41
《听说大突破》练习可以采取循环练习的办法,继续练习第三遍,而且不断重复练习下去,不断巩固练习成果,不断深化练习,学员学习到这时就可以对专题讨论,通过网站进行英语口语讨论练习,方法很简单:打开练习的相关专题的网站,看着网站英文,转换成碎句子口语,将理解的英文书面语言转换成口语对话练习。
一个语音的快速练习:
将前面几个简单练习方法串起来即可。相当于听说大突破的纵向法压码听懂练习。
第一步:听语音、看文本整理文本练习。
    先整理短句子基本词组采用1的方法,按回车整理;再整理句子的间隔,采取2的方法,按。。。。省略号键分拆基本词组在句子内部;整理文本按频谱图间隔的长句子整理来分段;按磁带语音修改文本的错误。
    整理文本后,反复听语音、看文本压码理解记忆。

第二步:听语音,不看文本理解记忆语音的文本练习。
    先看语音频谱图练习压码听语音,可以练习心念压码听写语音的文本、心念压码注音,可以压码跟读,可以利用整理文本休息的方式进行。

第三步:压码阅读,看文本、不听语音练习心念压码抄写、心念压码注音。
    压码听懂《听说大突破》的目标:学会只用压码听懂的三个基本步骤,将其他压码法都融入到一个压码听懂练习方法中,不用单一的压码直通车方法,做到理解并记忆,记住语音、记住文本、记住意思,三者同步到语音、文本中,实现压码听看读同步练习,实现压码理解和说口语的突破。


sunyuting1 2008-07-14 05:18
1.Love and Marriage1的14分47秒语音对应的文本

1. Love and Marriage


SIDE A


Hello, We're here gathered together
in holy matrimony,
no actually we're here to talk about that
sacred thing that we call marriage
or living together.

Vivian:

Um, Let's all introduce ourselves.

Daisy:

O.K. Well I'm Daisy,
and I'm married
and I'm on the verge of divorce.

Bow:

Hi, everybody, my name is Bow,
and I'm married
and I think the institution of marriage
is just great.

Luke:

Um, my name is Luke,
um I'm still looking
for that special someone
to make all my dreams come true.

Vivian:

Hey. I think, I'm Viv,
and I think legal is regal
but I don't need it so
I have a perfectly happy relationship
with someone
and we don't plan to get married any time soon
and perhaps never.

Luke:

That was cool, those rhyme??
I wish I had thought of that.

Vivian:

Anyways let's continue on.

Vivian:

I'm sure each person agrees
that everyone is made a little bit differently,
uh... some people may be suitable
for them and some may not be.
And you may find the right companion for you,
during your life time.
And others find that
they may choose to go another path
now I'd be curious to find out
how you feel about
the companion in a marriage you know..,
or children.., whatever. Go ahead, urn, Luke?

Luke:

Well, I don't know,
maybe I'm a bit of an optimist or something.
But I think I haven't find her yet,
but I believe that,
there is a girl out there,
that is just 100% compatible with me.
Like the 100% perfect girl for me,
and I just got to go out there
and I got to see the world until I find her.
And then totally I'm just gonna spend the rest of my life with her
and there is no questions asked,
um it will be, I'll know it when it's the time
and it's gonna be great
and I'm not gonna have to worry about anything..,
and I'm gonna set myself up with a little piece of farm land
and I'm just gonna make babies
for the rest of my life.

Daisy:

The three kids in the three bedroom house the whole deal.

Luke:

Well, yeah to a degree.
I just wanna drop-out,
you know I wanna work hard now
then I wanna drop by the society,
I don't wanna be part of this rat
i race anymore
but I mean, I've got to stay interested in it,
I've got to stay in the game
and the only way you can do that,
is just by being in love with someone who.
I'm 100% on the level
with and totally together with.
And I have faith that I'll find her,
hopefully soon.

Vivian:

But what makes you feel that?
Well I mean not that you won't find her
but I'm saying
why do you feel the drive
or the need to find a companion in your life?
And what makes you think that, that would be so nice?
(Daisy: Where's the feeling?)

Luke:

It's kind of empty without it, isn't it?
I mean your whole world
is made up of all these like individuals
going around trying to
find something in common with..,
as many other people as possible.
And just trying to like make a connection,
but a whole bunch of really superficial connections like,...
I don't know.., like what're your hobbies,
what's your job,
people join clubs to find people
and so they can talk about similar things
and so they can sort of have a common ground
to start a relationship with.

Vivian:

So (Daisy: Romantic.) you don't think that,
you don't think that, there would be any reason or way,
I mean do you think that this will be your lifetime partner?
What about divorce?
You don't see that in the picture?
I mean, do you think that, by chance,
you might end up with the wrong partner?
And do you believe in perhaps remarriage
or finding a second companion you weren't compatible.

Luke:

No, I don't believe that at all,
I think, everything that's been leading up to, urn,
in my whole life in the relationships I've made
with members of the opposite sex romantically,
there's always been something missing,
there's something that is not quite there,
it doesn't click on some level,
and you have this initial attraction maybe,
but then as you find out more about each other,
eventually you become a little bit,
the passion fades and stuff,
and you don't become that,
and you're not into them anymore.
But I think that it is possible
to just click with somebody so well,
and you just realize you just go on and go on,
the attraction just gets better and better
because as you discovering things about them
you realize how much they have in common with you,
but it's a very rare thing,
I mean I don't think everybody necessarily even finds it in their life..,
but I think that that is something we can strive for.
The dating process is just like auditions
you're just learning about people
and then someone gets the parts,
someone you cast in the leading role in your life.

Daisy:

So you're determine to like
search out that person
and until you find that person you're satisfied
with being alone or, or like maybe dating or,...

Luke:

I'm happy dating and stuff,
but I don't do it just for the sake of doing
and like I definitely have an ulterior motive that's,
I wanna find that person,
it's a, it's a ...there's a definitely I mean to,
I mean I'm trying to have fun in the meantime,
but there's that emptiness there,
that's, that's just, you know,
by playing the field I just don't get that,
that support I need.

Vivian:

Ah So you're a sensitive guy,
and you're looking for that Mrs right.

Luke:

No, well, if you wanna put it in Dear Abbey terms,
yeah I guess so

Vivian:

Ok. Well, let's move on to Bow then. Bow,
you're in a very stable marriage with three kids.
I mean, you're happy where you are?

Bow:

I'm extremely happy.
It's probably the best decision
I've ever made in my life,
and I totally see where...
Luke is coming from,
I mean being my brother
and all we are pretty much,
you know, sensitive guys, so ...
um ... yeah. I went through the same thing as him
and ...it's tough in the beginning,
I mean it's hard to find that Mrs. Right,
but if you just keep looking
and your compassionate about it,
you do find her and you do,..,
and the institution of marriage
is just the ultimate thing for a man.
It's just great,
it's the fusion of not just your bodies
but also your souls, you're soul mates.

Daisy:

And what made Mary Lou so right for you, Bow?

Bow:

It must have been, like,
she just had twinkle in her eye.
I could see deep into her soul,
like I just knew that
her soul and my soul were like two souls that,
we're made for each other.

Vivian:

One soul.

Luke:

You lucky dog.
See that's what I want see that's
what I want to look at that I'm just like, that's it, man.

Bow:

You can get there.
You will someday, man.

Daisy:

Right, well, see, you know,
I'm kind of in the opposite situation from you guys,
because, uh... well, what can I say,
I was looking,
I thought for exactly the same things,
and I thought I'd found Mr. Right,
and we've been married now for five years.
And we've... I really,
I have to admit I've tried.
I really have tried, I put in the time.

Vivian:

Did you love him when you first married him?
And up to what point did you think that you loved him.
I mean do you still love him?

Luke:

When did it fade, when did it change?

Vivian:

And why?

Daisy:

Oh, well, I don't know,
I cannot put this into words.
Let me see, well, for me, yes, I did love him.
I was both in love and in lust with him,
when I met him.

Vivian:

And did he love you too,
I mean, was it a mutual thing,
you really had that love,

I mean... Luke There,
That's the only way it works.

Daisy:

I think so, I think, I really think that he did feel that way,
you know, the thing is it that,
it's really easy to be idealistic,
and when you're in the white dress in your,
you have this wonderful guy
who's proposing to you. And,
and your, there's the whole Cinderella,
you know fairy tale ideal that's behind a wedding.
And um, here I was walking down the aisle thinking that
everything was gonna be wonderful,
we were gonna have the three kids the house and the dog,
and the B.M.W. in the drive way.
And um, all of a sudden we had the house,
and ok we didn't have children but..,
there was something missing.
And we... I think we started this on just an ideal
and we weren't prepared
for the realities of marriage.
It's much more than those ideals.

Luke:

Well, it's nothing,
but it's nothing that's insurmountable,
it's not anything
that you can't overcome
with communication,
and genuine concern
for the other person's well-being.

Daisy:

Yeah, but the thing is where I'm at now,
Luke is, I really, I don't know,
if I can go on anymore, I mean,
I think we've passed the point,
maybe we should have been doing
that communicating way back before,
and now I'm in this situation where,
I don't really wanna be with him,
do I love him?
I love him in the sense
that I care about him,
because I've been with him
for a long time,
I don't want anything bad happen to him.
I wanna be able to help him as a friend if possible,
but I'm certainly not in lust with him,
and here's the thing
I'm at this point in my marriage
where I wanna be with other people.
I, basically I wanna go out,
and I want to be with other people.

Bow:

Oh, that's a shame.

Vivian:


What about, if you're in the circumstance,
I mean, what if your situation involved children?
I mean, would you still think of ending the relationship, I mean..,
what about children?

Daisy:

Yes, that's, well,
all I can say is that
I'm thankful that I don't.
But you know, I think that would make it much more difficult,
but in today's day
and age maybe we could have a relationship
where I have the kids one week
and they have the kids the other week.

Vivian:

So, is that what you gonna do with your poodle?

Daisy:

Well, Yes, I mean that's another thing.
I don't know what I'm gonna do with the dog either. But...

Luke:

The dog is just a superficial thing..,
that's just some sort of thing
that you were using as some kind of glue
to keep yourselves together.
I think you should give it another chance,
I mean, you've got this person,
you've obviously made it this far,
well, what you need to do is bring it to the next level.
You need to have a child,
you need to make,
need to make an another commitment,
I mean, life is just a series of commitments,
(Daisy: But, the what about...)
You got to go deeper and deeper and keep challenging yourself
and then ... it's too easy,
people just throw things out
when they don't work out
(Vivian: No.)
and it's too easy.
You've got to start seeing things through.
I think, well, that's, that's your prerogative,
but I think that people have to continue
to challenge themselves
and to continue to commit themselves to things
and then they realize only down the road,
I've made these commitments,
"Oh my, God, I've had a very rich
and fulfilling and beautiful life.
And a child would be the thing
that you need right now,
to get yourselves back on the same track,
to get yourselves together
and to get back on that horse and,
go out there and
have a beautiful loving relationship again.

Bow:

I totally agree.

Vivian:

Well, I totally don't,
I don't think Daisy has to go back to,
I mean, to find another commitment
to hold her in there,
to string her into this relationship.
I mean, she wants to find freedom,
she wants to go find another soul mate,
let her be.
Why should she be tied down?

Daisy:

Well, It wasn't necessarily a soul mate.
It was just kind of um... mates.

Bow:

Was it a one night stand?

Daisy:

Yeah.

Bow:

And turned into a marriage?

Daisy:

No, no, no, no, I was talking about
when I get a divorce.
I wasn't looking for other soul mates, just mates.

Luke:

I bet you're looking for just like sexual partners.

Daisy:

Well, at the moment, yes.

Luke:

Well, you can't do it like that,
I mean this is what I've been doing,
this is the dilemma I have.
I'm empty, I'm like a,
I'm just like an empty vessel floating through the sea,
because I don't have that anchor to hold me to anything.

Daisy:

Well, you know,
we are just basically extremes on one scale,
aren't we, Luke?

Luke:

Well, I guess so,
but I just would say from my position,
I mean the grass can look always greener
from where you're sitting,
but I mean, it isn't always necessarily so,
and I think that you think
you'll gain all this freedom and stuff,
but you're losing a whole lot of really important things.

Daisy:

Well, Toucher,
You might come over to my green grass,
and not find it so green.

Luke:

Well, Yeah. but I haven't experienced
what you've experienced, yet.
I never had that,
that happy unity with one other person.
And stuck it out for five years.
I've never been able to do that.

Bow:

But I have, and I agree with Luke.
I think that instead of looking for
other sexual escapade,
you should be looking for
the new partner in your life,
your soul mate.
I mean it's.., there's nothing like
having this like mutual respect
for one each other,
it's like a, let me give you an example like I work,
you know a little bit..,
like after seven o'clock sometimes,
and you know, I might wanna go out
and have a couple of beers with, my,
my colleagues so,
you know, I'll be back by ten,
and I call my,
my wife and I say
"Darling, I'm gonna be a little late maybe about 10: 30"
and she's like "Darling, no problem".

Luke:

That's beautiful.

Bow:

I mean that's, that's mutual respect.

Luke:

Yes, that's beautiful,
and I mean, that's, what it's all about,
it's not like you've got an albatross
around your neck anything.
It's liberating,
I think, I think once you find it,
you realize that you have a
whole different realm of freedom
that you weren't even aware existed.
(Bow: Totally)
Freedom to be yourself,
freedom to like fully give of yourself
to another person.
That's true freedom,
that's true freedom.

Daisy:

Well sure, it's freedom for you guys
who work and get to go out,
and lead good lives,
while your wife is at home cooking and, cleaning,
and she has no,
you know, personal satisfaction.

Luke:

I'll stay at home.
I'd love to stay at home.

Bow:

Um, Well me, personally,
I mean, I have my own chores every day,
we share the responsibilities of the house.
I do laundry, I wash dishes,
and I'm, you know I'll come home beat dead from work,
at like nine or something,
I mean, really late,
I'd go to bed by like ten. But,
I mean, my wife is watching the baby all day,
and she might have like corns
and calices on her feet,
they might stink but,
I'll still massage them,
until my finger's almost bleed.
And, I mean, that's what marriage is about.

Daisy:

Well I don't know many guys like you, two.

Vivian:

And I certainly don't.

Daisy:

And I don't think there are a lot of men
that are willing to do that.

Vivian:

Willing to sacrifice, yeah.

Luke:

They're everywhere,
men just are, just looking for the excuse,
they have all this,
macho posturing
and stuff that they just wanna go out and,
and meet a lot a chicks,
bust that's all a ruse.
It's just because they're insecure ...

Daisy:

And you don't wanna have sex with other women?

Vivian:

Oh, but he does.
He's saying he is experimenting
until he finds that right one.

Luke:

But the sex isn't just an incidental.
I'm not doing it,
I'm not doing it in pursuit of sex,
I'm not, I'm looking for someone who,
who I'm compatible with sexually
but also emotionally,
and like (psycho...) intellectually.

Daisy:

Well, then why is it wrong for me to go out and have,
um and play the field
and have sex with other people
and find my soul mate?

Luke:

I'm not saying it's wrong,
I'm just saying, I'm just saying that you made this decision
and there's a certain sanctity to marriage,
but I think that, that it's sacred,
and you have to uphold it no matter what,
no matter what life throws at you,
you've made this decision,
and you didn't do it,
just because it was a fluke,
I don't believe any marriages happen by accident.
I think that if you're gonna go that far,
it's magic, and you know its magic,
and you know it's gonna work out, yeah.


sunyuting1 2008-07-14 06:34
2.Love and Marriage2的14分47秒-28分58秒A面结束语音对应的文本

Vivian:

Well, see, but she doesn't feel it,
she doesn't know that it's magic.
She doesn't feel it at all.


.Luke:

But, at that time, she did.
She's just lost something
that used to just be there,
and she just has to rekindle that again.
It's still there,
(Daisy: But it's gone.)
it's doesn't just go away you don't.
People just don't like have something and it disappears.
(Vivian: What if she's mistaken?)
I mean, well, that she must have mistaken, well, then ...
(Vivian: In the last it all?)
I don't think she did.
I don't think she did.
I don't think that people make mistake like that.
When it comes to matters of the heart,
I think you know,
you know right off the bat.
Matters of the heart,
you can be wrong about math equations,
and you can be wrong about,
like your positions on things
or like on historical facts.
But on matters of the heart you're always right.
You can't, I mean intuition is everything.

Daisy:

Like Michael Jackson
and Lisa Mary Presley,
(Michael, Yeah, Lisa Mary)
or Dennis Rodman
and or Carmen Electra.

Luke:

I don't know these people,
but I think if they were gonna make the big plunge,
they were gonna go out and get married,
and make these huge commitment
to each other as this united whole.
Two candles becoming one,you know.
I think that something was there that is still there,
it's just that the thing
that made it work has gone,
it's dormant now.
And it's a matter of trying to find it again
and bring it back up,
(Vivian: O.K.)
and I think anything is, like,
just.., can be overcome.
Any kind of conflicts you had,
if you're in the bond of marriage,
and you had the idea in the first place,
(Daisy: Oh that’s a little naive, Luke.)
it's real, it's real, no, it's real.

Vivian:

How, how about not trying to rekindle that fire,
but, just say,
"Hey, the flame is gone,
and it's died out,
and you're never gonna find it again,
so why not go and try to,
come to a mutual understanding,
and say "Hey,
let's go and find another companion,
or just find happiness in our lives"

Luke:

Well, I think that's a very defeatist attitude,
(Vivian: Why is it defeatist?)
I think, I think it creates a very dangerous pattern
for the rest of your life.
If something, if something just doesn't work out,
like you kind of get a thrill off it
and then it's starts going on,
and all of sudden,
it doesn't have the same,
the same kick it used to have and it doesn't,
there's a diminished return you're getting from it,
you don't just give up from it and walk away,
I mean, what are you gonna walk away
from your whole life,
you gotta, you gotta, sometimes you've got to put yourself on the line,
and this is one of those things
where you have to do that.

Daisy:

O.K. alright, O.K. Luke, well, Here's Sally and Ben,
and, Sally and Ben,
they grew up in high school together,
and they had a wonderful relationship
and they did that whole fairy tale wedding and
they thought they were very happy,
and well, somewhere along the line,
Ben, kind of got a little bit violent,
and he would beat Sally and beat the children and
Sally tried to get him help but,
he wouldn't get him help,
and then Sally said,
"well, you know, but this is the dream of our marriage?
Should I stay here?
And what about children?
And there comes a point,
don't you think when a woman in a situation like that,
should leave?

Luke:

Well, you left a part out there,
because, you just said,
all of a sudden,
he just started beating them up?
What changed?
Like what did she do,
what is, how did she change
that made him start beating them up,
like, I mean obviously
(Bow: Exactly)
there was, something there and it shifted
and the situation was made different,
that caused the man to start to becoming violent.
(Vivian: That is)
I mean, he didn't have that in high school,
I mean, I hope if he was doing that in high school,
she didn't like it.
I assume she doesn't.

Daisy:

Well, some people,
some people have violent tendencies
and they don't manifest them
until later life,
and perhaps he's just manifested them,
maybe it was Ben's fault,
and not Sally's fault.

Luke:

Well, maybe, but, I mean, obviously not,
he just didn't wake up and did
(Daisy: You're attacking women,
that's what you're doing)
no I'm not, no I'm not,
(Daisy: You are)
, I'm not at all,
I'm just saying that obviously something changed
in the situation and,
maybe it was within Ben,
like maybe it was frustration
with his job
or something like that.
(Vivian: Exactly, maybe it was with him)
I'm not saying that,
and I guess in that situation,
yeah, I mean, it makes it a lot harder,
but I still think it's overcomeable,
I think that if he could just,
if he just could take the fighting element out..,
that in him hitting them,
then it would be a good marriage again, right.

Bow:

Well, she could learn to fight back a little bit,
you know.

Luke:

Sure.

Bow:

Defend herself a little bit.

Luke:

Well, that might escalate things.
Maybe that's not good.
I, I don't think violence in a marriage is really gonna...

Bow:

But then maybe he could see her as his equal again,
and then get on with things.

Luke:

Possibly, possibly.

Daisy:

Well, What about, O.K. Mr. Love,
please tell me then,
what I'm gonna do.
Here I am living with this guy,
and I well obviously have,
well I'm married to him,
and I, obviously have some problems with him,
but my thing is,
is that the I've met another man at work,
and I'm very attracted to him?
And I'd like to have sexual relations with him.
Now how do I stop myself from doing that?

Luke:

Well, see, you've already created the pattern
for yourself though,
cause if you had the same feelings for this guy
that you did for your husband,
is it gonna, is gonna lead to,
is gonna go down the same way?

Daisy:

I don't want to get married again.

Luke:

Well... well.., why?

Bow:

Why, the marriage is...

Luke:

You have to. I mean,
If it's the right thing,
if you feel that kind of attraction to him,
you have to,
you have to like consummate it.

Vivian:

You can't have,
oh consummate it with sex?
You can't have a sexual relationship
with someone without being married?

Daisy:

You're doing that, man?

Luke:

Of course, I am, but,
I'm just doing it to discover about people,
I'm trying to get at their inner souls.

Daisy:

And you can only do that
because you're a man,
we can't.
Cause we're female?

Luke:

I'm not saying that?

Bow:

It's not as good,
I mean having sexual relations with, just a,
you know, a person that you meet in a bar or something,
it means nothing.
It's 2- dimensional,
it doesn't it matter
how sexy they are?

Vivian:

O.K. Daisy? Just you know, tell him..,
let's meet at the bar
and meet him all you want,
and do whatever you want with him.

Bow:

I mean, the thing...

Daisy:

Well, yeah, you know there's a certain animal,
kind of instinct,
in humans,
and maybe sometimes sex
for the sake of sex is OK too,
why does sex always have to be a flop?
Why can't I fulfill my, my pure
(Vivian: Animal magnetism)
physical desires?

Bow:

Because, you are married.

Daisy:

Okay. Well, if I get a divorce,
and I'm not gonna be married any more.

Luke:

Yeah, O.K. well, then go ahead and get a divorce,
but well, I mean it's your life,
I mean, you screwed up your life.

Bow:

Totally, I mean...you're gonna...

Vivian:

Why is it that screwing up her life?
Why does divorce have to ruin your life?

Luke:

Because she's turning her back on the greatest thing
that's ever happened to her.
That's why.

Bow:

The institution of marriage.

Luke:

Exactly.

Daisy:

Have you met my husband? No.

Luke:

No, I have not.

Daisy:

Yes, so, I don't think you're qualified to speak about it, Mr. Love.

Luke:

Well, obviously, he must have something going from,
because you married him
and you've lived with him for five years.

Daisy:

Yes, but that has gone.
I'm not in love with this person anymore;
I want to have sex with other people.

Vivian:

It was a mistake, she said.

Bow:

Or maybe, you know,
you just weren't trying hard enough,
you have to spice up your marriage like,
you have to bring some toys into the bedroom,
spice it up, you know...whips and...

Daisy:

No, spice it up by bearing another child
so that you're completely
and forever eternally committed to that relationship?

Bow:

That's my brother Luke's idea,
you know, he, he's not married yet,
he doesn't know, but I am. I have experience,
and yes of course you know,
we have our troubles every once in a while, but...

Daisy:

He's just wants free sex like you, O.K.

Bow:

That's not true.

Luke:

That's not true.

Vivian:

Don't get so defensive!

Luke:

I wanna... I'm looking for a committed relationship,
and I tell this to girls up front
before I sleep with them,
and that I'm looking for something serious,
but, sometimes, it just doesn't click.

Daisy:

I wanna hear about the toys.

Vivian:

I say, that's a line.

Bow:

I mean, the masks and specials
I have order catalogs from Japan,
which are really great,
it... I mean, I spent a lot of money on batteries a month?
But it's totally worth it.
I mean, when you have an altercation,
and all it takes is a double dong-dildo to rectify it,
it's a... I mean, it's no problem,
I don't see anything wrong with that,
and you know, it's the thing with the people
today they're so easy like a,
my brother was saying,
to just, you know, to throw away a marriage.
But urn, for this,
you're talking about going out and having sex,
because you love sex...

Daisy:

Well, would you to be willing to if your wife said to you
"O.K. I love you,
but I wanna be with another person,
to be involved with us."

Vivian:

All I want to be is sexually satisfied by,
not a dildo,
but by the real thing.

Bow:

If that's what it would take
to keep the fire in our marriage alive,
then yes I would.

Vivian:

You would let another man,
if your wife said you
"No, I want another man to satisfy me,
I want to open our marriage,
and take in new sexual partners"
you would do that for your wife?

Bow:

Yes, I would.

Vivian:

Even though, that's like kind of breaking your marriage,
vows. That's... I mean,
that's just as good as going out and have an affair.

Bow:

Well, that depends on
what kind of religion you have,
or what kind of standards, and...

Vivian:

But, you guys are talking about
the sanctity of marriage
and the vows and not breaking them..,
and how you should be forever committed to each other.

Bow:

Exactly, which means that..,
we'll do anything it takes to keep that alive.

Daisy:

But, thus, do you really,
can you sit here and honestly look me in the eye,
Bow, and tell me.

Vivian:

Look at her in the eye!

Daisy:

And tell me,
(Vivian: Don't roll your eyes!)
you could watch another man having relations with Mary lou?

Bow:

I mean, if, if, what it took was for,
if she, if she asked.

Vivian:

Don't break down on this.

Bow:

If she asked me,
you know, to have some sort of deviant relationship in bed,
that's,...that's what I had to do,
that's what I have to do!

Vivian:

But I just asked you,
what about the sacred vows of your marriage
that you supposedly uphold so highly.

Luke:

But I mean, if it's something that your partner wants,
I don't think you have to be limited
by the traditional ideas of marriage,
of course, we're living in changing times.
And people have different needs
and different things that turn them on and stuff,
and I mean there's room within a marriage
to change some of those standard perceptions,
I mean I think, um, I think it's important that people,
that people find and make their own definitions of marriage.
I think it's important that they,
that they, just, that they seek out what's best for them,
and within a marriage no one can touch that,
that's just you and your partner,
make it work however it has to,
however it has to happen.

Vivian:

So, why can't the same apply for Daisy,
or I mean what if her,
her husband came to a mutual agreement
that their marriage isn't going to go anywhere,
from here. I mean, that they mutually agree
that this is the point where,
you know that they're going to.

Bow:

That's exactly what we're saying.
We want her to try something
before she gives up on her marriage.

Vivian:

Not, not give up.
I'm not saying try.
I'm saying they both agree
that they're gonna
both go their own ways,
and that they have tried.

Luke:

I'm just saying that's a dangerous pattern to get into.
I think once you've made that...

Vivian:

Who says it's a pattern?
Doing it once ...
doing it once isn't,
it's not like you're gonna divorce a hundred times in your life.

Luke:

But you might get married.
If you get married a hundred times
what's to stop you from divorcing?

Daisy:

No, well, No, I don't want to get married again.
You know, everybody doesn't have to speak for me.
I don't wanna get married again.
And the thing is I think it's probably innately human
for us to want to have more than one partner,
and if I married a man
that can not fulfill my needs,
and then why should take the responsibility
and onus all by myself,
to fix that.

Luke:

But, people. Its works better,
if you would just stay with one person,
that works better.

Vivian:

Why do you have to be with one person,
I never wanna get married I'm perfectly satisfied living my own life,
and you know, you can perfectly,
have a partner,
and not get married,
you can live the rest of your life with one partner,
why must you get married?
Is it some inevitable thing that you have to cross?

Daisy:

Sure, and even if she doesn't want to get married,
I mean, if she chooses to have a single life.

Vivian:

And be faithful to him.

Daisy:

Or not even have a partner,
or not even have a partner,
in today's society,
there are several options if she wanted to be a mother,
a single mother is nothing new in today's society.
There's surrogate mothers,
well, I mean, you know,
there's so many opportunities out there for women,
why do I have to choose this archaic,
patriarchal, system,
um that men created, marriage.

Luke:

Well, no I mean, I'm sorry it's come to it that you see it that way
but I think that you are missing out on one of the great treasures of life and that's...

Vivian:

And How do you know,
you're not even married,
you just have this idealistic marriage um idea in your head..

Luke:

O.K. How about this?
I'll appeal to on a more of a legalistic
and pragmatic angle,
I mean, without marriage.
You don't get all these tax-breaks
and stuff and you don't get the same benefits that,
that you'd get if you're married.
If you're single,
you're just living together that's not gonna,
that's not gonna,
that's not gonna hold up in a court-of-law.
There are so many benefits you get.
Just from a pragmatic point of view.

Vivian:

I'll play your game.
I'll adopt a kid, ha.

Bow:

But you won't get respect from society,
society doesn't,
does not respect single mothers or single women.

Vivian:

I'll donate,
I'll donate. Why not?

Daisy:

Because society is ruled
by a government of white,
conservative men,
and there in lies the problem.

Vivian:

O.K. What about this?
Alright Bow,
I honestly,
don't believe you are
satisfied with your marriage,
you're not lustful of your wife,
and she isn't of you.
You guys are in it on your marriage,
it's a functional marriage.
You guys feel like you have to be with each other,
you have to raise this picture
(Daisy: Three kids)
perfect family,
exactly,
and you are tied down by your kids
and your dog and your BMW
and your two door garage.

Luke:

Have you never seen them together
the way they're fawn over each other,
and dote on each other?

Vivian:

In front of others, sure.

Bow:

You, just, you're saying that from lack of experience,
you just haven't been there,
once you cross over to the other side
then maybe we can have this conversation.

Vivian:

I don't wanna be on the other side.
I'm perfectly happy living the life that I am.

Bow:

Sure, promiscuous and just another man every other night and,
you know, you don't know
if you have a disease or, you know...

Luke:

Ignorance is bliss.

Bow:

Exactly.

Vivian:

I get my pap smear every six months.

Bow:

Doesn't matter,
the thing is, it's not..,
you're just thinking about sex in the,
because of the, the function of sex.
It just pure lust and that's not what it's all about,
it's about like, yes, of course.

Daisy:

Well, you're not thinking about
the lust when you use those toys with your wife?

Bow:

No, maybe, she is, but to me,
(Daisy: Maybe she is),
it's really, it's like um the ultimate of a...
coming together,
that fusion of marriage and love is,
is intercourse,
with each other
and it's not just the function of it.
It's, it's more like a union of our souls coming together,
and it's not like,
you know, of course,
I think of other women as attractive,
wow, she is really beautiful,
and but.., it's more of an attraction to my wife,
well, I mean, even when I see her naked
with her stretch marks and her rolls,
that's doesn't matter to me.
It's just like,
I don't even see that.
级别: 管理员
只看该作者 124 发表于: 2009-02-10
sunyuting1 2008-07-14 07:56
3.Love and Marriage3的28分58秒B面开始到43分53秒语音对应的文本

SIDE B
------

Daisy:

Right, (Bow: You don't even know)
well, that's a beautiful thing,
if that's true, but some,
for most people
, it doesn't, love doesn't exist on that level,
and you can be with people and they become unattractive to you,
and why at this age?
My mistake was,
I'll admit it,
I don't have a problem with that
I can admit my mistakes.
My mistake was marrying too young.
And now I'm at this point in my life
where I want to move on.
I need to progress,
and I feel I'm not progressing with my husband,
he has not progressed.

Bow:

And how does he feel about it?
Does he know about it?

Daisy:

Well, actually he still wants to remain married,
but he is still the same person
that he was five years ago,
and I feel I've evolved and
I don't wanna be with him.
I can't connect with him on the same intellect,
the same level,
that same soul mating that I had
with him five years ago,
is gone and I'm not attracted to him
not in the slightest bit in fact when he touches me,
I'd rather puke.

Luke:

No, you're just going through a phase,
it will pass, everybody goes through it,
that's true. I think, I don't know,
I think that attraction, you know,
comes and goes,
but really when it's the,
when it's the right the thing it's never ends.

Daisy:

Believe me baby, it's gone
(Luke: No... No)

Bow:

Ah, it might also be,
I mean you seem to be getting close to that
age of like menopause? So maybe that's it,
like ... you know...

Vivian:

Menopause after five years of marriage
when she got married young?

Daisy:

I'm only thirty years old.

Bow:

Oh, I'm sorry.

Vivian:

Anyways, I don't see the reason
why someone has
to remain married or get married.
I mean you can seek out a different
life style for yourself
and that doesn't mean being promiscuous every night
and sleeping with another man or woman,
you can certainly...

Luke:

But It does, it does mean that,
if you just can't
(Vivian: Why?)
seem to, if you can't seem to find that one person
that does it for you,
and draws you into their world so much,
you wanna be the part of that world,
you wanna, you wanna love everything about this person,
you know, you wanna know
what they think
(Vivian: But why have.., why?)
you wanna know what they feel,
you wanna, when you meet them you know,
food tastes better and like colors are more vibrant and stuff.., that's...

Bow:

You leave the door open
when you go to the bathroom.

Luke:

Yeah, there's a trust there,
there's, there's a fully,
there's a freedom
and there's a genuine like ecstatic
and rapturous joy,
(Daisy: Well, then let me ask you this, boy.)
that you get from just giving of yourself to another person.

Vivian:

But why must you marry them,
why do you have to make a vow and marry someone,
it's, it's just a piece of paper,
and.., it's a license
(Bow: No, no.).

Daisy:

And, further more, further more,
urn, here you are Bow,
you know, going on and on and on about the virtues of a marriage,
your marriage values
when you walked into
that sanctified institution called the church,
told you that you were only allowed to have sexual relations with your wife,
and here you are,
inviting virtual strangers into your boudoir.
And how can you justify that?

Bow:

Excuse me, Miss, not at all.
It's was actually in a synagogue ...
and our rules are different there.

Daisy:

Excuse me the Jewish the,
the Jewish religion says that
you can invite strangers into your bedroom.

Bow:

Yes.

Daisy:

I think not.

Luke:

Actually, not. It's yeah, not it's doesn't actually says that,
I don't think, but, but, it goes back to my other point earlier that,
like it's not always the letter of the law.
Sometimes you have to you have to
abide by the spirit of the law?
Do you know what I'm saying, people?

Vivian:

And what is the law?
What, what? The words on the certificate of your marriage license?

Luke:

Well, actually,
it doesn't come in a certificate with like little rules on it.

Daisy:

Because the government says you're allowed to live
and fornicate with this person?
Then it's okay.

Luke:

Well, it was not only O.K.
Yes, it's great that you can that you can know
that this person is gonna be for you there.
All the time through thick and thin you know,
no matter what kind of trials
and tribulations live can throw at you.

Daisy:

Well, what kind of person is gonna be there,
because I'm not gonna be there for my husband,
I want a divorce.

Luke:

But then you're not keeping up your end of the agreement
that you've made.

Daisy:
The agreement that what
my local government
or my senate told me that I had to fulfill?

Luke:

Hey, hey!

Vivian:

The agreement that went void and null.

Luke:

No, no, no, you, they, the government didn't force you to get married,
I'm sorry. But I mean,
you took that decision upon yourself.

Daisy:

I did, and I admitted my mistake,
that I made a mistake;
I got married to the wrong guy.
But how can you sit there in your,
on your sanctimonious pedestal
(Vivian: Single)
and tell me that I should stay with this me who I'm totally,
100%, unhappy and unsatisfied with.
And I can't move on with my life? Give me one good reason.

Luke:

O.K. Alright. If you, I guess if you,
if you acknowledge that you've made a mistake,
I guess I'll have to I'll say alright on that.
But I still think that you've taken the wrong turn,
T don't think that you should give up on the institution of marriage,
or the institution of love,
you know, I mean of, like forever love,
you know, the kind of love that just keeps on giving and giving.

Bow:

You haven't tried hard enough.

Daisy:

Well, maybe, somewhere down on the track,
if you guys give me let me get a divorce,
I might find that guy.

Luke:

No, I mean, it's, it's a free country,
you can do whatever you want.
I'm just saying don't sell yourself short
by saying like the whole thing's a sham.
I mean, obviously, there has to be some kind of merit to it,
look how many people do it?
(Bow: Exactly)
Everybody gets married; it's the thing to do.

Vivian:

And everybody gets divorced these days,
look at the divorce rate.
It's about fifty percent now,
for the past twenty years.

Luke:

I'm not saying that's right.
I don't think that's right,
I think that's wrong.

Daisy:

Because people go into marriage
for the wrong reasons,
(Vivian: Exactly)
and they do it because they want to conform to society.

Vivian:

And too soon without knowing
for sure that they really want to commit to that sort of relationship,
why must you commit to,
you can get married at the age of forty for the first time
and only time in your life.
(Luke: Sure) (Daisy: Hey man)
You can find the one committed partner
and live with them
or have relations with them for twenty,
thirty years without having a marriage license,
to bond you guys together.

Luke:

Oh, no, no, well of course,
well O.K. I believe you can find that love
at any point in your life.

Vivian:

So as long as you've found that love,
that, that one person,
right, in your book,
you don't have to get married.
After you find that person,
then you can go ahead and get married
if you want to,
but why force it on someone else
when it may not suit them,
maybe it was a mistake.

Bow:

I'll tell you why.
It's because you can never really trust your partner
until you have that commitment.
The sign on the dotted line,
until you have that then there's an ultimate trust it goes beyond human,
urn, intellect, you can't even imagine,
what it's like.., cause you're not married.

Vivian:

Then, perhaps your love is not as solid as you think it is
if you need a signature on a dotted line,
instead of the trust and the bond
and the honesty that you have with each other.

Daisy:

O.K, if you are right Bow,
the things that melds
and meshes two people together
is that signature on the dotted line.
Then how do you feel about the fact that my sister,
who I love with all my heart and my soul,
who's been there through thick and thin,
all the things in my life.
I could go on for so long,
but that's an another story.
She is a lesbian,
and I'm proud to say that,
I don't have any problems with saying that.
I don't I don't.
But anyway she is a lesbian
and she is in involved in a relationship now,
she's fifteen years older than me by the way,
she's forty-five,
she's been in involved in a relationship now
for twenty years.
Twenty years, they've been devoted to each other
they have an adopted child;
they love each other with all their heart.
They're wonderful,
they're, they're better than you,
and Mary Lou,
they don't even have to bring in toys
and other women or whatever,
but they are completely happy together,
and they can't get married,
they can't sign on that dotted line,
and what do you have to say that.

Bow:

Let me respond to that,
urn, you know, because your sister is a sexual deviant in our society,
um, you know, she's not able to actually have a real marriage
and I think she's probably regrets that.

Daisy:

Excuse me, deviant?
Wasn't it you telling us about
you bring strangers into your bedroom?

Bow:

That was a sacrifice
to keep my marriage alive.

Vivian:

And isn't that I think that marriage.

Daisy:

I think you are a hypocrite.

Vivian:

And those marriage vows are
(Luke: Hey,)
supposed to be about,
they're supposed to be between two
and there's supposed to be sacred in your words.
But they're not sacred anymore
after you've invited half the neighborhood into your bedroom.

Luke:

Well, O.K. What is the goal of sex?
I mean, what is the whole point of it?
Is it for pleasure?
Well, maybe as a sort of distraction,
I mean, I think the purpose is for procreation.
I don't think the people should just be getting together
and shagging just to have like.

Daisy:

This is the misconception that rest of the society,
especially the male population seems to have.
A homosexual relationship is not about sex,
it's about the fact that two people love each other,
just as same as a man and a woman love each other,
they don't feel that way with another person.
They only feel that way with one another,
because the person they're with is their soul mate,
the person you're seeking,
Luke. So you're sitting there,
on your little preaching pedestal,
telling me about going out
and finding your soul mate,
when my sister has her soul mate,
she's been with her for twenty years,
faithful, Bow. Hasn't had any strangers in the bedrooms.
She is happy, and they're together.
And they're solid and they are solidified, they're gel.

Luke:

I don't think that,
I don't think that they have monogamous relationships
(Bow: Yeah), I think they're always is,
you gotta admit with homosexual relationships,
there's always some fooling around,
... if you have guys...

Vivian:

Why, I'm sorry.

Daisy:

No, No, I'm sorry, I know my sister,
I know her, you don't...

Bow:

And also, with lesbians,
I mean, I'm sure that they're not totally sexual satisfied,
yeah, how could they be? I mean,
just tongues and fingers...what.... I don't...

Vivian:

And neither are you and that's why you need your dildo, right?

Daisy:

Yeah, well, obviously,
you're doing something wrong, Bow.
(Bow: Well...)

Vivian:

Aren't performing up to your...

Bow:

No, see you don't understand,

I'm just.., it's just to be,
it's just to be creative
(Vivian: Pardon? Pardon?)
in the bedroom
and not keep it monotonous and um...
to... you know, it's just to keep it spicy,
it's just a little extra, extra added on.

Vivian:

Well maybe if you had the equipment too,
you wouldn't need it any other equipment?

Luke:

I tell you what's monotonous?
Monotonous is like going out every night,
picking up some like babe in a bar,
taking her home,
(Vivian: Like you do, uh?)
and having like wild sex with them
and then waking up in the morning,
they make you breakfast and they leave.

Bow:

It's disgusting.

Luke:

It's terrible,
I don't, it's just,
it doesn't do it for me.

Vivian:

You don't believe in it,
you just practice it.

Daisy:

Well, that's fine.
My sister is not doing that
and her partner isn't doing that either,
why can't she have the same right as you,
I want, if marriage's alright for you and Mary Lou, Bow.
I want it to be alright for Helen, I'm ready.

Luke:

Fair enough, fair enough.
I'll side with you on that.
I'll say that, I'll say that the institution of love and marriage,
it goes beyond anything,
beyond like a sexual orientation,
beyond a, race, creed, color belief, anything.
I think the love is the thing that,
that, erases all those boundaries,
all those distinctions that we try to build up between each other.
I think love is the great bulldozer of ideological conflict.
And I think that is the thing,
that is the thing the main,
the most important thing that the big the enforcer,
the prime mover of love.

Vivian:

Yes, sir, I mean...?
Jimmy Swaggart? Amen.

Luke:

It's marriage, it's marriage..,
that's what makes it love.

Daisy:

Well, and why can't they have marriage?

Vivian:

Why can't you not have marriage?

Daisy:

Answer my question!

Luke:

I agree, I agree, they should,
I mean, thinking it over,
I think that they should,
if they're truly in love,
and they truly wanna go all the way with it,
and they're having the kind of thing
I've been dreaming of all these years,
then who am I to say that they can' have that?
Or that they shouldn't be able to,
to... make it alright,
but then you're contradicting yourself you're saying that,
that they should get married.

Bow:

I'm sorry.

Daisy:

Well, I'm saying that they found each other,
that's fine. In my case,
I haven't found that person.
I'm a completely different case,
Luke, completely different.

Luke:

But, if you found that person,
would you get married again?

Daisy:

If I was able to find that person
who satisfied me on every level, emotionally,
physically, sexually,
yes. I would go for it.
I would get the whole kit and caboodle.

Bow:

Yeah, and five years later? Divorce.

Vivian:

Why does the epitome of life
have to surround a companion or marriage,
or love. Why do you need that?
Why can't you have a...
fulfill your life and have a satisfying life with work
and friends and a nice social life?

Bow:

Uh? You know humans are innately gorgeous,
they need people around them.
(Luke: Yeah)

Vivian:

Yeah, I've got lots of people around me,
what about it?

Luke:

That's not the same thing.
I mean having friends
and loose contacts
and acquaintances and stuff,
that's, that's shallow,
I mean everybody has that
and of course it's important
but what you are looking for,
the whole point of life,
I believe, is making that one true commitment,
where you just give everything of yourself,
and you don't even know where,
you stop, and the other person begins.

Daisy:

O.K. We've heard it all before Luke,
and actually, you know, I know that,
um, most of you know,
I've known  Luke:
for quite a while and...
There are a few things in your argument that don't quite,
kind of gel, Luke, like for example,
you're saying that
when you're with a woman
you let her know that
you're looking for something more
and then you go ahead
and you have relations with her
and if it's doesn't work out,
you move on,
is that what you tell,
um, the women you hired down
on the corner of fifth avenue?

Luke:

Hey, hey, hey.., don't go slinging mud at me now..,
that's a, that's a whole different,
that's a whole different,
I'm not even gonna comment,
I'm not even gonna justify those comments.

Vivian:

And, and you're talking about this cycle
that's going to form,
well I mean throwing away,
throwing away each women
after every night one night stand,
I mean isn't that forming a cycle just like,
she's gonna divorce.

Daisy:

What about those women feelings?
Do you think that they're chattels?

Luke:

Hey, I don't, I'm not talking about
one night stands here,
I'm talking several nights,
you know, several...

Vivian:

Several nights...

Luke:

Several nights to work out some sort of like rapport with the person,
I mean, the initial rapport,
like in a bar, night club or something.
And maybe you'll have a bit of rapport,
and you'll go home and get you get, more,
more of a rapport...

Vivian:

And the next night you just can't send her home,
so you (Daisy: Yeah)
have another night with her?

Luke:

Yeah, but I'll know, I'll so.

Daisy:

What's the criteria you're judging these women on,
well, I mean, do you find out if they can cook
or do you find out if they can do your laundry well enough?
Or if they can iron? or you know...

Luke:

No, no, no, no, I mean, just like a,
you know, little things like compatibility things just like,
just things they might say or do or maybe they just..,
like certain things about them.
It has nothing to do with that. I said before,
I think I said that before.

Vivian:

How they perform in bed?

Vivian:


So why don't you be more specific?
What about what they say or do or what...


sunyuting1 2008-07-22 07:44
4.Love and Marriage分拆4的B面43分53秒开始到58分08秒结束语音对应的文本

Luke:

Well, I don't know,
like if I say something to them,
and I think that,
that one thing they would say would be really funny,
and then they say something totally different.
That's a sure sign that maybe it's not meant to be,
like I want someone who's kind of like a mirror reflection of me,
as a woman,
and I don't think that's asking too much.

Daisy:

Why don't you marry your mirror?

Vivian:

And you're not answering in the question.
Why you have to conform to society's ideal picture?
Where you have to find that other love in your life and marry them?
I mean why can't you live a life like me?
I have a, nice job and I'm satisfied with what I do
and have many friends and I have a companion,
I have a companion,
but we've come to mutual understanding
that we will not marry
but we're still,
we're so committed to each other.

Daisy:

And your in a monogamous relationship,
right, she's having sex with one person,
they're happy, but they don't want,
they, their relationship
(Luke: But)
excuse me, is on a completely different spiritual plane
(Vivian: and...)
they don't need the signature on the dotted line.

Vivian:

And ... since we're not restricted to your morality rules,
we can probably get divorced
any time we want to, huh?

Luke:

Well, I just think you're full of hot air though I think you just like,
I think you're just talking,
I mean it's like
"oh we have this big thing and it's a spiritual plane.
Well, put your money where your mouth is
and sign the dotted line?

Daisy:

Oh Ye who has no partner.

Luke:

Hey, at least I'm looking,
and I know what I'm looking for.

Vivian:

And a blank dotted line.

Luke:

Yeah, but at least, I know what I'm looking for.

Vivian:

I know what I'm looking for;
I've found what I'm looking for.

Luke:

So marry it.

Vivian:

I don't wanna marry it,
I'm happy I am,
I am perfectly satisfied,
I'm not insecure enough to need that signature,
I have his signatures all over...

Bow:

Yes you are, yes you are,
that's why you're not doing it
(Luke: right).

Vivian:

Why, why?

Daisy:

You guys have no idea what you are talking about.

Bow:

You're just gonna be a,
a black sheep in society,
people are not gonna respect you
(Vivian: Exactly that's exactly what I'm talking about)
as a couple and it seems like you just you have no respect for society,
because you're just gonna living sin,
and then once you guys are...

Vivian:

Why is it sin?
Living in sin?
Why must I conform to...?

Daisy:

Sin? Sin, don't go there Bow-, sin?
Excuse me, who's been sinning Bow?

Vivian:

Go back to your synagogue.

Bow:

What?

Luke:

People gonna laugh at you guys, you know.

Vivian:

Why, What is conforming to society?
Why must you conform to...
this ideal that society upholds to you.

Bow:

Do you always have to be a rebel?
You always have to be deviant?

Vivian:

Yeah, I'm a rebel without a cause.

Daisy:

And you!!

Bow:

No, and then the first time that you have,
like a small little tiff
then anyone can just leave
and that's the end of the relationship,
and then what do you do?
You are either left alone,
or you have to do go and do the same thing over again.
You have your one night stand
and do all this disgusting stuff?

Vivian:

I, you know what,
you know that I've never had,
I've never cheated out my man, and ...

Bow:

How would I know?

Vivian:

And you know what I just said,
yes, exactly, I don't have that piece of paper,
that holds us together,
and bonds us together,
we have our own respect
and the trust that we have with each other...

Bow:

It's a facade.

Vivian:

Facade?

Daisy:

I'll tell you what, facade,
facade. Well, here you go.
I mean, I've been married for five years
and what am I seeking after five years,
of this marital bliss
that you guys are talking about.
I'm seeking freedom,
absolutely,
I want freedom,
I want the freedom to go here and go there
and then to come home when I want to.
And if I wanna bring him home
then that's who I'll bring home
that's what I'm seeking.
I want freedom.
I want control over my life,
I don't want anyone
whether it be the government,
or men to tell me what to do.

Luke:

O.K. Fair enough.
But you gotta understand
that it won't be like that forever,
I mean you're not gonna want it
once you get it again,
you're not gonna want that kind of freedom,
you're gonna, you're gonna seek out the kind of freedom
that all people really want deep down inside
whether they acknowledge it or not.
And that is the freedom to fully give of themselves to another person
and to be bonded forever in holy matrimony.

Vivian:

Well, I'll agree, up to everything you said,
except the holy matrimony,
the last two words,
why holy matrimony,
why do you need that piece of paper,
sorry, you don't...

Bow:

Course you think like that,
you're like a satanist,
you're living in sin.

Vivian:

Oh, my goodness.

Daisy:

Oh, he who he who has not sinned throw the first, stone.

Bow:

What're you talking about?
You married your high school sweetheart,
that's the only girl you were ever with,
look at that, they've been together,
how many, how many years like.., like...

Vivian:

And the other woman he's invited into their bedrooms.

Bow:

We've lost our virginities together.

Daisy:

Excuse me;
there are many mansions
in the lords house.

Bow:

What?

Vivian:

Speechless, hey?

Luke:

Well, I don't know.

Daisy:

He who is sitting there telling us about,
religion, and holy vows,
you've breaking yours several times already.

Bow:

Oh yeah, well people who live in glass houses
take showers in the basement alright?

Daisy:

Ha Ha.

Luke:

Come on, let's not throw stick and stones at each other, guys!
Let's get together on this.

Daisy:

Well the problem is that we have fundamental differences here.
I believe that I should be in control of my freedom
and I don't want a man to dictate that,
and Viv, Viv just wants to be able to
have her relationship on her own terms.

Luke:

O.K. well, this shouldn't become a battle of the sexes;
I don't wanna sound like I coming off preaching
as a man to a woman,
I'm just talking about like...

Daisy:

Well you are.

Luke:

Well, I'm just talking about like, well,
but, just because I'm a man,
but if I was a woman saying this to you,
would you feel that,
you know, you're being railed at by another woman,
no, just because I'm a man,
that doesn't mean that, doesn't meant that,
I'm trying to take the male view point
and try to lord things over you.
I'm just saying that my point of view is that,
love is eternal and love is great,
it's the only thing,
love redeems alt,
it's the most important thing,
and marriage make it real.

Vivian:

This is the man that said that it is O.K.
for man to hit a woman.
You know why...

Luke:

I didn't say it was O.K.

Bow:

But it is.

Daisy:

Luke, Luke, you would agree with me
that this society is a patriarchal society, right?

Luke:

To a degree.

Daisy:

To a degree.
Which degree would that be?

Luke:

To a large degree.

Daisy:

O.K. and women when they enter the institution of marriage,
they are, whether they do it subconsciously or consciously,
expected to perform a certain role,
and they fall into that role,
because the society wants them to fall into that role,
and I don't, except that,
I reject that, I, I absolutely reject that,
I'm looking for something more in my life,
I don't want to be another statistic in society.
I've already made myself that.
I'm a divorce, or almost.
I don't wanna be this woman
who cooks and cleans
and is bare-foot
and pregnant for someone,
for somebody who doesn't even appreciate it.

Vivian:

And the reason why it is pointless to point this out to Bow and Luke,
is because, you guys are stuck in your own little worlds over there,
and Bow, you're not even married,
you haven't even found your companion, do you?

Bow:

I am married.

Vivian:

Oh, I'm sorry, Luke,
Luke, you haven't even found your companion,
you're still going out there night after night,
banging this girl and that, and...

Luke:

Hey, hey, hey, hey.

Vivian:

OK. You say that you want to make this commitment.
After you've made that step
then come back to us and preach to us, okay?

Luke:

Alright, look. I think I can be allowed to dream,
I mean, I'm just, I'm just, of course,
we're all just giving our opinions on these things.

Vivian:

Dream weaver.

Luke:

I'm not saying, I'm not trying to come off as being condescending
and trying to preach or lord anything over anybody,
I'm just saying that like,
sometimes you have to look at things beyond yourself,
you have to, you have to,
have faith in something that's bigger that yourself.

Daisy:

Please do that.
Please look beyond yourself here.

Luke:

Well, I'm trying to.

Vivian:

You know I could look at it from your point of you and you say,
look at you, you hypocritical prick,
go and find yourself a companion,
go and get married.
Why don't you get married.
Why haven't you found your,
found your other love your other companion.

Daisy:

And what about,
how many girls are we talking about here?
How many in general terms?

Vivian:

And what girl, if I happened to be that girl,
I wouldn't want you,
because you're dirty now,
you're filthy dirty,
(Luke: Hey, hey...)
you’ve been with every other girl on the block,
you are used property and nobody wants to buy used cars anymore,
they just don't run like they used to.

Daisy:

Why buy the cow,
when you can get the milk for free?

Luke:

Come on, don't turn this on me,
alright? I'm doing my thing with...

Vivian:

You know you're doing your thing.

Luke:

I and, and don't get the wrong idea
about what I'm doing, either.
It's a, it's a very chaste situation I'm doing.

Vivian:

Honorable?

Luke:

Yeah. I'm very honorable,
I'm a gentleman,
damn it.

Daisy:

Well, gentleman,
well, O.K.
I'm not,
I'm neither a gentleman or lady,
and I'm proud of that,
because I am who I am.
I wanna be free to experience things
and whether that means,
me being with either a man in marriage,
or woman in a marriage,
I wanna be free to explore all avenues.

Luke:

So, what you're gonna be a lesbian now?

Bow:

You're a lesbian like your sisters?

Luke:

.lust because your marriage doesn't work out?
See, this is what I'm talking about.
People go off these roads less travelled,
that are really just deviant,
and really not right,
and don't contribute to the procreation of human kind.

Daisy:

Well, maybe.

Vivian:

What makes it not right?

Luke:

Because the divorce,
the divorce, the divorce makes...

Daisy:

I travelled the road less travelled
and that made all the difference.

Luke:

No, that's not how it goes.

Vivian:

And what if Daisy,
were not to get a divorce,
what if she weren't to get a divorce,
but still seek out other mates,
like Bow, in his righteous marriage is doing right now.

Bow:

No. I didn't seek out other mates.
I just said that the.., my significant other.

Vivian:

You said, you said bring it on!

Bow:

I accepted her proposal
if that would spice up
and bring some creativity to the bedroom,
that's all,
and the bedroom is only one aspect of the marriage,
there's so many other aspects of it,
you haven't even touched on it.

Daisy:

Did it hurt you?
Did it hurt you, though;
Bow, when she is screaming another man's name?

Bow:

That is a little painful but,
something that I can get over,
well, I mean, I'm doing it for the,
ultimate goal of, keeping the marriage together,
I mean, it0s hard work like people say, but...

Daisy:

I've got this,
you know, I have this problem here,
I think, Bow,
is more concerned with the marriage
than he is with the relationship.

Luke: 

No, no, no.

Vivian:

And upholding the image of
how it looks to other people.

Bow:

That is part of it,
but that, you are totally missing the point,
there's so much more to it than that,
we have an understanding
between each other, which,
you guys seem like,
obviously will don't understand
and never understand.

Vivian:

No. because I'm saying the same thing to you,
I have an understanding with my companion
(Bow: No, that's not an understanding).

Vivian:

I mean, so, why can't you not be with each other and have,
actually, which is the most innocent,
and most simple kind of love,
is the understanding and the trust
that you have with each other.
Which come to the question, what is love?
What is your understanding of love?
Having a piece of paper? Vows
(Luke: No.)
in front of a preacher?
(Luke: No.)
Then what is your idea of love?

Luke:

The vows come after the love.
The vows and the paper are just a sort;
of, sort of, an affirmation and Public statement like.

Vivian:

A seal of approval.

Luke:

Yeah, O.K. it can mean that if you like it,
but, I mean, the bottom line is love is what love is,
and I mean and I guess it's just it's different to.
different people,
well I mean. I guess,
I just, I have a deeper understating of it, and that's all.

Vivian:

I think that's exactly what the problem is;
the definition of love is so different for all of us,
that we're coming at opposite ends of each other.
Bow, apparently thinks that love is the fulfillment of
(Daisy: Marriage, marriage)
society's ideal of marriage,
and having, creating that perfect home and family well,
Luke is still searching to fulfill those shoes,
and Daisy, here thinks she thought
that she was conforming,
and then that was probably the right thing to do,
but comes to realize that
she has evolved into a different person
and this may not be exactly
what she was looking for.
She was a little too,
eager to maybe step into the role
that society has expected of her.

Daisy:

Well, you know, I guess, look,
all I can say is that,
when I went into this,
I was young,
and I really didn't know
what I know now,
I thought I was in love with this guy,
I thought I knew this guy,
I didn't know this guy.
And he just wasn't,
how can I say?
I really, he just couldn't satisfy me,
in many ways,
physically, spiritually,
and on a emotional level.
I feel I've grown,
and I feel that he hasn't grown.
And I'm at this place in my life right now,
where I'm feeling, boxed in.
I feel like I can't breath I want to break free.
I want to be on my own.
I want that freedom.
I'm seeking essentially freedom.
That's what I'm looking for
and I know that I'm not gonna be able to find it with my husband.
I want to move on.
I'm ready to move on.
This is my right of passage in my life.
This is my epiphany..,
if you like.

Luke:

Okay. I understand where you're coming from and um,
I feel for you.
I have a great amount of compassion,
for your situation,
and I don't wanna come off as being vindictive or anything.
And I just hope that what,
what we've spoken about here,
will maybe sway you back to the side of, of love,
and to the side of, of that holy institution of marriage.
Because you had a bad experience.
You weren't the first one,
I mean, many people have had these experience.
I've had them myself.
I didn't take it as far of course,
but I mean, we all have had.
We've all loved and lost.
We've all had, you know, love unrequited,
but I think that the thing is that we should all hopefully come away with
it at the end of this discussion,
is that love conquers all.
And we should never give up on it.

Bow:

I think the marriage is on many different levels
and there are problems on certain levels,
and you just have to solve those problem where you can.
You guys are totally off,
way off base with what you're talking about
and I think you should reconsider your opinions.

Vivian:

Speaking of way of bases is you, Bow.
I mean with your sanctuary love and your
devoted family and this and that,
and then you go off and invite other people into your bedroom?
That's what I just call ridiculous, O.K.
you don't need a piece of paper to say
that you are going to be together forever,
that's just a piece of paper,
and if you love each other,
and trust each other
and have an enough respect for each other,
you don't need anything to say
that yes we give you permission to be together.

Daisy:

But I still love you guys.

Luke:

Yeah, I guess that's the bottom line.

Bow:

Love conquers all.

Vivian:

We're still friends, O.K.
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孙裕亭压码英语学习论坛 -> 压码听懂学习法 -> 2. 《听说大突破》Abortion and Sexual Education压码听懂练习 [打印本页]  登录 -> 注册 -> 回复主题 -> 发表主题




sunyuting1 2008-06-05 23:28

2. Abortion and Sexual Education原文


sunyuting1 2008-06-05 23:53
1. Abortion and Sexual Education的前15分钟4秒语音对应的文本


SIDE A


Ok, today we're talking about a real sensitive issue. It's abortion and of course sexual education, it all kinds of, you know, combines into each other.

Vivian: This is Viv.
Daisy: Yeap! This is Daisy. Yes, a very heated topic. I don't know what do you think. Bow.
Bow: This is Bow! It's short for Bow Seaffas. Anyway, I think this is a hot topic all over the world. So let's dig our heels in and get going.
Luke: Yeah, the life-giving force that we all have inside of us, that procreative impulse, that just seems to keep on going like a spark that can never be snuffed out. Let's rap gang.

Vivian: Hello everyone welcome and uh let's introduce ourselves.

Luke: How are you doing? This is Luke!

Bow: And I am Bow!

Daisy: And I am Daisy!

Vivian: And this is Viv!

Vivian: Today's topic is sexual education. Let's start off by saying, hey, where did you guys start off? I mean, how'd you

get your sexual education?

Daisy: Well, urn, well, actually I was kind of brought up in a very strict Catholic family and my mother was very reluctant to tell me about anything. Actually, my funny story, my sister asked me to go to the store and buy her some tampons. And I had never heard this word before, didn't even know what they were. So I went to the shop and I asked the guy for some tampons, and he gave them to me. Looking at these tiny little, cotton things and thinking, what the hell are these? I had no idea. So I gave them to my sister and asked her what they were. And she said, "Ask mom." And then I, urn, asked my mother and she wouldn't tell me for like two months. I kept hounding her, so she gave me this book that was like published in the sixties. And it still have pictures of women that use to wear those sanitary belts that they attached sanitary napkins, too. And I couldn't understand any of the words, I didn't even know what a penis or a vagina was.

Vivian: Oh! Daisy. This is brutal!

Daisy: And I was pronouncing the word, as "Penis," and "Vagina." And my cousin came to visit me, he was like talking about sex. And I said "I know what sex is." And he said, "No, you don't. What is it?" And I said, "well, it's when a man puts his penis in the women's vagina."

Vivian: Can I ask how old you were when you in first like.

Daisy: When I got this? I was probably 10 or 11 I guess. (Vivian: Really?)

Vivian: What about school education?

Bow: Urn. There was an attempt at educating students when I was, I guess, in grade four or five. I must have been just pre-pubescent at that time. (Vivian: Right) 12, Thereabouts, 11 or 12. They would take all the boys and shuttle them into another room and they would leave all the other girls in the classroom that they were in. And then the gym instructor would take us all and explain basic things very nervously. He was a gym instructor. He was about physical education. He was, part of his job description was not teaching a bunch of horny pre-pubescent boys about sex. But, um, because the curriculum had changed, he sort of got stuck with the job. And I mean it's, it's kind of stupid. I mean it should, it has to be done. But the thing is by that time, a lot of kids really do know quite a bit about sex. Just because they have older brothers or sisters who sort of fill them in or stuff, um, or their friends do and they've learned stuff from their friends in a lot of cases. So I kind of knew a lot of stuff, but it still was good to have that. I think because it sort of, am, solidified a lot of things, just so that you wouldn't be embarrassed if it ever came up like, I know there's a lot of tension for me, because there were a lot of spaces missing in the whole sex thing that I wanted to get like, you know, get smart with eventually before I actually was gonna be with a girl. I didn't wanna like just get there and be like "doh", I've never learned that part, you know. So it is not necessary. (Daisy: They told you that?) No, I need not to study the general things, you don't wanna go into it, you know, your big romantic first encounter and end up looking like a spasm, just because you, you didn't want, you know, ask your buddy. What's that for? How do you use that or whatever.

Vivian: What about the parental aspects? I mean, did your parents ever like come in and ask you or tell you anything?

Luke: My father would sometimes come up to me, and ask me if there was anything that I wanted to know, that I was curious about. Is there any, you know, sort of things that you're, you know, you'll probably, you know, starting to become a man now? Is there anything that you're curious about? Wanna know about? Of course for me, I was just ' No, that's all right. Dad, I'm fine. And he said like, All Right. Great, see what's on TV. That was good enough for us.

Vivian: And then week, he'd come back.

Luke: Just make, just let you know, you know, I'm here, if you do wanna talk about this stuff, if you don't, that's probably, you know, just as good if not better. (Daisy: That's great.)

Bow: He was available for that.

Vivian: How about you Bow?

Bow: Um, my sexual education was a little bit warped. I think it, kind of all most make me uh, deviant almost because of it. Because it was kind of in uh, little, clips of things. So like I guess, Luke was saying it was for.., fourth grade or fifth grade. You start to think about it when it happens and... There are some, you know, promiscuous people in that grade too. Sure they are. There was, this couple they were supposedly going out and there's rumor that they had, had sex. So then, everyone in that grade was like really interested in what happened, what happened. And they said, well they did it. And then they both got sick. So, we thought that, that's like what happen after you do it, you know, too early or something you get sick. But then like the second part of it was after that, I actually, caught my parents doing it. It just like walked into the room and I thought like my dad was hurting my mother. So I said "Dad, you're hurting mom." And he said, "No, just go back to bed. We're OK!" And then where it gets worse is because I went to a Catholic school. They kind of masked sex education as health, in health class. You take health. But you're taught sex education by a really big and fat ninety-year-old nun who says if anybody laughs, I'm gonna whack you on the back of your head. People laughed and I laughed and then she said like this is the penis and this is the vagina... Boom! you got whacked in the back of your head. So now I like uh, when I have relations I feel like I'm gonna get whacked in the back of my head in a minute.

Daisy: Which you do anyway!

Bow: Turns me on.

Luke: It still true that I feel if you laugh during any sort of sexual stuff, you usually get a slap in a face.

Vivian: Are we talking from experience here, right?

Luke: Oh, yes, sure. I haven't had sex, yet.

Bow: Oh yeah sure. So, but I'm think uh, nowadays, like I sound like a real dad like: "When I was back in school," but, it's true like I think people are more aware of it, at least in North America, and they're making it a priority their kins take this sexed. As a whole class not as under the guise of health class.

Vivian: Right. I think in the past ten, maybe 15 years, especially in the American school system with the addition of sex education. It may not necessarily be a class you can select it as an elective when you enter high school. But usually you get this class during the end of your elementary or beginning of your junior high years, you get a couple of classes with the health teacher or the nurse. And they teach you, you know, all the basic functions of the body including, you know, all the sexual parts, and that has changed the educational system a lot. As matter of fact, there's lots of parents who are totally against having sexed in school. They don't like the fact of the school teaching it and so usually you get parental permission before your child can enter that class.

Daisy: Well, when I'm, I was in elementary school, um, I went to a Catholic school. And they didn't teach it in the school but what they did to satisfy the parents who wanted the education was have all the kids go to the local church after school. And sit down while the priest and the nun gave us sex education. Which is ironic.

Vivian: That sounds similar to Bow's situation.

Luke: That's why that, you know. Catholic school girls have such a bad reputation cause they do just the opposite of what they are not supposed to do.

Vivian: Exactly.

Daisy: But, um, basically, just the biological functions they taught us, you know, woman menstruate. And this is what happens and then when I went to high school I had a class like that it was called health. They were very liberal they taught us about contraception, sexual diseases, everything from drugs, tobacco, alcohol, all those things that you know I guess kids are tempted by. And I thought it was good. Actually, I found the class very interesting because I never had that education in elementary school, and I know more I think about those things like sexual diseases than any of my friends do because I remember that. I think it's really important to teach kids that, and give them that sexual education.

Bow: The thing that's um, strange are the statistics like today, because you know, say from the forties for example to the sixties, or late fifties even though sex education it was kind of weird talk about it and it was really scientific and stuff, but there was less teenage pregnancy then, than there is now when they're really adamant about teaching these things in school. So like is it just that the kids are not listening or do they think they no more than more people? I don't know.

Luke: I think it's that, I think the reason that parents are against it is because they think that their children are becoming educated about the wrong things at too early an age, but the truth is that kids are growing up they're, they're maturing a lot faster. (Daisy: Right. Much more promiscuous than they used to be.) Not necessarily pre-mascuous, but I mean that they come of, they sort of come of age a little earlier and they, urn, they go through these changes a little earlier and the thing is they are going to get, they are gonna get educated, they are gonna learn about sex, they're gonna be curious about it, from a young age. It's probably better that like they learn about it on TVs and movies and music, and on the Internet. But they don't have that sort of, urn, educational aspect, and sort of like what you should do, maybe and what you shouldn't do. That's why sex education it's not like they're gonna, just go through life, not even hearing about sex, not wondering about it or curious about it, if they don't get sex education. But the sex education is good in that, it sort of says now just be smarter about it, you know, like put this on or use this or like maybe, maybe it's better to wait. You got to think of your options and if they won't get that out of a school setting, they just get sex is dirty, it's kinda interesting. They're just curious about it and they want to learn about it.

Vivian: For me, you know, my parents never sat me down, even to these day, we've never talked about that topic. I mean, we never had that birds and the bees little talk that everyone get. So my first contact with that kind of information was in elementary school, just like Luke said, we had the little class where the school nurse actually took you aside, and separated you and told you about the anatomy. Perhaps the girls could, you know, run into their menstrual cycle any time soon now. You should go talk to parents. And they gave us this little sample of the sanitary napkins. So when I first ran into my little accident, you know, I had that little sample that the teacher gave me and so 'Thank God!' You know, cause my mom and I never talked about that. And then my second encounter with that sort of information was in junior high, when we had the health class that Daisy was talking about. We had the health class where we talked about all sorts of things starting with drugs and going down to, you know, the aca-, uh, anatomy and sex and what not, and I think when you're younger, because children talk, uh, she went out with so and so and they did this and that, of course, you know, the movies and videos all sorts of information that you get on TV. There's a lot of things that aren't factual but you know lots of rumor things that you think may be true and sexual education kind of reinforces what you know, and what may not be factual and a lot of myths get cleared out of the way, you know, about STDs, and AIDS and drugs and getting this disease and that of course pregnancy and what not.

Bow: Urn, yeah, O.K. But, I think, uh, one of the things that you're saying is that you're unfortunate to not have the talk with your parents, like everybody does, I don't think many people do get that talk actually. I think it's very rare that people do and I think like the movie "American Pie," that's why it was so funny with the father "Eugene Levvy" like "Son here's a couple of magazines for you." Everybody could relate to that, because that's what parents do. I think it's just kind of weird to talk to your kids about and they try to do it, cause they think it's their duty, but it doesn't really help. I don't think so.

Daisy: I think it's just probably; it's a really awkward thing. Because you know a mother-daughter or father-son relationship is, you know, extremely sensitive where that area is concerned. A mother doesn't or father doesn't want his daughter to be, you know, even having sexual feelings. So I think it's very difficult for them, but that's why I think, urn, because they're families like that, that do have difficulties discussing those things, that it is absolutely, urn, of the utmost importance, that education be in schools, compulsory. The government should make that the law whether parents don't like it or not especially in this day and age. I don't care what country you're in, even if you're in Korea, and they say there's no AIDS which is just, just misinformation, you know, there are, other sexual diseases out there, that can stay with you for life, and you know, that might not be life threatening but they are not certainly not comfortable, and you know, there's AIDS, there's... Oh, there're so many different things. (Vivian: STDs, sure) You know, other than pregnancy to worry about (Luke: Psychological things) Sure.



sunyuting1 2008-06-05 23:55
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2. Abortion and Sexual Education  A2 的15分到29分6秒语音对应的文本



Vivian: I definitely agree with Daisy, there. That's definitely true and then also it doesn't just rely on the government or the schools. People always say, hey, it starts with the home and it really does, and for example, I mean, if you were to put yourself in those same shoes, if I had a daughter or a son, I mean, I eventually know I have to talk to them, sure, this is the position that many parents are put in is. I need eventually talk to my child about something like this but "Are they there yet", so it's kind of like, kind of, you know, test you out, maybe test out the waters by coming out and saying... "So, is there any thing you wanna talk about?" kind of like in Luke's situation. But then of course the kids in the same situation were there, it's an awkward topic for them, too. And so they're not gonna say, yeah. Dad actually I wanna know about this. So they just keep avoiding the topic. So you never end up talking about it even though your child maybe 16, 18, 20. You never want to admit to yourself. Oh, my child is sexually active or is going to be, and so you never wanna really go in and you know. Yes, Bow.

Bow: Um, yeah, that’s exactly right. That's how I felt when I first had my daughter, and I thought "oh" I'm just gonna be a strict dad and she's never gonna have sex, she's not gonna be with boys and all this stuffs. And then I met, uh, another father, who has a similar situation. We called him a Cooter. Cooter's opinion was that, that's so stupid. I mean she's just gonna rebel against you even more, she gonna become like a prostitute, she's gonna do it for money, you know it's just a natural res.., res.., natural thing, you know. That's what people do.

Vivian: God forbid your daughter does that ten years from now.

Bow: Yeah, ok. But um, anyway I kind of realized, you're exactly right, and I can't do that, I can't like, you know lock her up, and put a chastity belt on her, or get the chastity rings... I just have to kind of try to raise her, naturally in hope like she'll be smart enough to make her own decisions. (Daisy: Hope that she has good judgment)

Vivian: I definitely think that the more informed you are, the smarter you are, think about it, when you look at two 18-year-olds, for example, and you have one that is very much educated and aware of her surroundings, and current events and what not. One that is not so much aware of everything and informed. When you see the ignorance and the naivete of one child versus the other, you know, that person that has more knowledge, you know, yeah they're, they know what's going on, but then also they're gonna be, more aware of the bad things and they are gonna be smart about their choices and decisions versus the ones that are not so aware and so out of curiosity and ignorance she's gonna go in there and most likely be in a lot more dangerous situations.

Luke: I think all kids respond to, uh, to just frankness and openness. And it's really hard to do with a topic like that, but I find that like coddling kids and just going like goo-goo ga-ga and stuff often they're just like, OK, someone's making stupid voices to me. That's not how they really talk when they're among themselves, so I think they'd really respond to, to a subject like that which is very sensitive if you can just show them you're comfortable talking about it like at an early age even if you are not. If you can just sort of I don't know be open about that stuff, be available to talk about those sort of things. I think it wouldn't be such, such a hard thing to talk about because it really is a natural thing, you know it's such an obvious thing and it's just all this other sort of social conditions that make it sort of dodge to talk about, you know.

Vivian: And who here at the age of 15 or 16, didn't think that they were mature enough or adult enough to hear something like this, when your parents do talk to you like that you're "Yeah, whatever", and then it just makes you revolt against them more, when they speak to you at such a level, you know, when they if your parents had actually talking you at the age of 15 and sat you aside and sai. "Hey, you're an adult now, you're mature enough to listen to this. Hey, let's just talk to each other like adults. This is how it is, and if you're gonna get involved or I would prefer that you don't let me know this is how it goes. If they are very frank with you, I mean, I honestly think that, yeah, I would probably respond, not only with that, you know, the whole sexual aspects but with many other aspects as well, at a much more mature level. And probably grown up a little bit.

Bow: You're saying that if your parents were frank with you then (Vivian: Yeah, I'm just) I disagree with that. (Vivian: You do why?) Because I think the point that you made that teenagers, urn, do think that they are mature because of that reason they don't wanna listen to anybody. And I think you don't realize that until you become an adult, and I think if you're frank with them, yeah, they could be "yeah, whatever, whatever, whatever."

Daisy: Yeah, but it depends on the attitude that you have towards them, I mean if you're treating your children like a baby the entire time, I mean that, (Luke: And suddenly come up and say, OK, let's talk about the birds and bees.) Exactly.

Luke: I mean you have to open with them even from a young age like just sort of let them know like "this is what makes girls girls, this is makes boys boys," and like start at the really basic stuff like that, I mean.

Vivian: Cause the entire raising the child experience is an educational thing from very the beginning it leads gradually, and slowly, and eventually toward the sex education thing as well.

Bow: OK thanks. I'll remember that.

Daisy: Well, you know, I just think that we're so way beyond on this discussion I don't think it's even about how we approach it with out kids any more. I think it should be forced down their throats. I think whether the government has to do that, the school has to do that, or the parents, it should be made some law that makes it compulsory. Because I am not, I don't want my child, if, even if she can't talk to me even if I have a great relationship with my child, if he or she can't talk to me, I wanna know she's getting that information somewhere else. (Vivian: Right) Because it's just way to dangerous. You take Korea, for an example, you know, here's a country that has basically, my niece, I asked what she gets in school. And they're still just giving them the biological processes, you menstruate, the penis is inserted into the vagina and so on, and so on, so on. And she really knows nothing about how to protect herself from pregnancy. She doesn't know anything about sexual diseases. She still thinks, and so does the rest of Korea, which just makes me insanely angry, that you can get AIDS by drinking out of the same cup as someone, you know, I mean, it's just misinformation, and the thing, this is a country that has nightclubs that have professional, you know, dm, hookers working there. And it's not just Korea. It's the rest of Asia as well, and urn, it's ok to have hookers working in nightclubs as, you know, girls that peel your fruit or pour your drink. But it's not ok to teach the rest of the country that you need to wear a condom that you need to protect yourself, that there's AIDS, there's other sexual diseases out there.

Luke: What are the names of those night clubs?

Vivian: Anyways, I do have to agree with Daisy on one point is the actual amount of education you are getting and at what age, too. As I was saying before, I learned about the anatomy in elementary school. But then like said especially when you are at that age you're very sensitive and you hear a lot of information and that's not actually factual, a lot of it is, just a lot of gossip that kids pass around. Hey, if you do this, you get this. This happens to you such and such. Literally, ninety percent of it is all false, I mean, its false information and you should be informed with factual information whether it’s from school, or homes or whatever. And even to this day, even from adults that I speak to, my friends. There's a lot of people that are totally misinformed about certain things, I mean, they may know it up to a certain point, but then that they don't know the, the rest of it. You know, I mean I'm talking about 30-year-old adults who don't know the, the entire picture, you know, and I mean, when these children are going up to junior high and they know basically the, the little skeleton, but they don't know the meaty part of it, and then they hear all these rumors. Even though, you think you're supposed to know you're not so sure, and when you hear these rumors. Oh, that must be true, I mean, if they get factual information instead of being misinformed by their peers, wouldn't that change a lot of things.

Luke: Sure. I was growing up, uh, a lot of, uh, people that I knew who were starting to experiment with sex under the understanding that you couldn't get pregnant the first time. And you couldn't get pregnant if you did it in a certain position, if the girl was on top or something. So that was sort of a form of birth control, you know. I wonder how many people got themselves in a lot of trouble. It's the first time. Forget about it.

Bow: Girls believe that. You win there.

Vivian: I have a totally prime example; this is just something recent that I had recently read. I heard that in Korea a form of, I think, I don't know, if it was Korea or America whatever, but maybe twenty years ago, a form of birth control was pulling out before the male ejaculated. (Luke: It helps.) It helps, yeah, but that is not 100 percent. That is not (Daisy: Coitus interrupt us) contraception. That is totally not, you know, and I was trying to explain, no actually. You know, it leaks out a little bit, and then also even, and that's totally not contraception. And then the second fact which wasn't a fact was, um, there were many women that were confused as to when you're menstruating if you have intercourse, you couldn't get pregnant, or when you're menstruating that was the time when you do get, you know, pregnant, which was true. And so they were confused as to which was actually true. And so that is very dangerous information to have, if you are on the wrong side of.

Daisy: Well, that's the rhythm method, and that's what the Catholic Church tried to get everybody to use it and that's why Catholic parents have so many children. (Luke: That's why it's the main religion in Christianity.)

Vivian: If you're to go to a doctor, ask him if this is true or not, he probably would laugh in your face, because, first of all, this is not a way to, you know, protect yourself, and perhaps if you don't wanna conceive children that is not the way to go about things. And second, it isn't true, you know, I mean that is totally false information.

Luke: But it's hard, if people don't, if kids don't have anywhere to go to other than friends' who also don't know the score, and if parents aren't really forthcoming with that kind of information and they don't get it in the schools, like where are they gonna get it.

Daisy: That's why, you know, I urge, you know parents to go and join their PTA to write their local member to get their governments to do something to make it compulsory in schools.

Bow: I think it is actually in the States (Luke: It is.) (Vivian: In America) the problem is, with that is, even though like anything else, US history is compulsory, but you gotta, a lot of kids in the poor neighborhoods don't go to school. (Daisy: Right) So they are not showing up for the class, you know.

Daisy: Well that's why I think that there needs to be some type of standard in, you know, in sex education in schools, and as Bow said, you know, of course there are the poor kids, you know, in poor neighborhood that aren't getting that education. But there are you know, I, I, the government even in the states, is trying to do things about that I mean, they've got welfare offices set up and people that go out, they talk to women who are single mothers having children and give them information about, you know, how to protect themselves both from sexual disease, and pregnancy. And I think it has to be a national effort in any country that you live in. If you have children and you're not involved, then you're not doing enough. You have to go, you have to write to your local member. You have to go to the village meeting, discuss these things they're important. And if you're not involved, then if your child does get pregnant then you are responsible for that.

Vivian: And I think this eventually leads to another question that is actually a very hot issue, especially in the western countries these days. I mean, what if all of this sexual education, it didn't work out in the end. Hey, what if, uh, it just didn't work out the way you wanted it for, your daughter or son? What if they did get pregnant or what if they got someone else pregnant, they'd been a situation where what? They may be students and they couldn't finish their education or they'd be force to have home education. There is a lot of situations going on out there. And of course even as a young adult or an elder adult, you may get pregnant and that is not the situation that you had planned on. There are some options out there for you and they're difficult options, and we can discuss some of the options first, and see how we all feel about this, um, obviously the topic is adopt.., um, I'm sorry, adoption? Ok. Those are one of the choices, yeah, that's one of the choices, but abortion. It is a really hot steamy issue, lots of people get very urn, sensitive about this one, so let's start off by saying like where we kind of stand. Are you pro? Or Are you against abortion? Are you for abortion? And second let's talk about the choices that are involved with that. You wanna start up Bow? Are you (Bow: Me?) Luke?

Bow: Um, I think that.

Vivian: What side are you on first?

Bow: I don't choose either side, I'm neither pro-choice nor pro-life. But I do, I believe that, um, there shouldn't be an abortion if people are, can be responsible, if they have the ability to be responsible, but they're just choosing not to be because oh, it's gonna be so hard on me. I don't agree with that. I agree in extreme situations where depending on how that child is gonna be raised, if the child is gonna grow up to be, you know, raised in a terrible environment then maybe the best choice would be to, you know, go ahead for the abortion. Um, if it had to do with a mother's health, um, basically yes.
级别: 管理员
只看该作者 126 发表于: 2009-02-10
sunyuting1 2008-06-06 00:19
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3. Abortion and Sexual EducationB1 的29分6秒到43分38.36秒的语音文本



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Vivian: OK. Let's, let's get back to that in a little, in a minute here. We can talk about the details. OK, Daisy. Do you wanna tell us where you stand?

Daisy: OK. Well, actually I just wanna to ask Bow a question. Um, I just wanna to ask him if you do have like obviously I understand what you're saying and probably pretty much most peoples' views are the same, but how could you make a law to make a standard for that type of thing, how could you say: it's ok for this person to have an abortion but it's not ok for a woman in her thirties who's not married, but has the financial ability to have a child?

Vivian: There's a wide grey area.

Bow: Yeah, I don't know, it's, I don't, I'm not a law maker, I don't know that is still uh, just, uh, just my opinion. That's what I think, (Vivian: Exactly) and I, it should be talked about more. People that do make laws and people that do make theirs, you know, who have these problems and these situations come up, and we should be talked about.

Luke: But you're basically pro-choice, but you don't think you don't feel that, that it should be used as a form of birth-control for example. (Vivian: It shouldn't be abused.)

Bow: If you have to label it, but I think, you know within the label of pro- choice or extreme pro-choice people, and there are extreme pro-life. But I'm more you know, in the middle of both of those.

Luke: Of course, I would say the same. I would say that I'm definitely pro- choice, but I think that yeah, abortion is not something that you just, you just, sort of do for the heck of it. But I don't think, I don't think that's any human, in a person's nature, I mean, if someone's gonna, gonna have a child, a woman is, obviously, is gonna have the child, there's gonna be some kind of attachment to, and some kind of like psychological factor there. That doesn't make it an easy decision in any, in any situation. I think if it's a repeated thing, if it's, it happens continually, there's a obviously problem there and I don't know, it's hard to regulate that (Bow: Yeah) but I also, I don't think that someone who's definitely not ready, and not interested in raising a child and isn't gonna give a 100%, or isn't just like, mentally and emotionally prepared for that, for that to happen. I don't know if it's if it's a wise move and if there not, if they're not fully committed to it. That's the first sign that it's, uh, no, shouldn't do it, shouldn't be done, shouldn't happen, do the abortion, give the child, like a fair shot a having a real life kind of thing.

Vivian: So both you guys are kind of in the pro-choice section but not very, you know, (Daisy: Pro-life) right.

Bow: I don't think for the extreme pro-choice people who say like, uh, it's gonna ruin my career and this kind of thing, if that person has confidence in themselves, and I believe that they could rise above that, they could take care of a child, and then, I think once that they started to raise the child and they could, people do it all the time, they have careers and they raise children, they become successful. And the children go to college and they become successful, and become a great member of society. But did you say like to look ahead into the future and say no, this is just gonna ruin everything for me, so, I'm just gonna, you know, cut this embryo out, and it's nothing, it doesn't mean anything, but I believe that the, um, pro-, extreme pro-choicers say that it's not a life yet and, but I don't believe, I believe it is a life, it's not a human yet. But it is, it is life, like every cell in your body's life, plants are life, you know. So that's my opinion. (Luke: Yeah)

Vivian: OK, Daisy. Where do you stand? Do you have a firm stand on either way?

Daisy: Well, I'm definitely pro-choice. I believe that abortion should be, should be legal. But for different reasons. Not because I don't believe that a fetus is, urn, not a baby yet. I believe exactly the same thing that Brandan does, not because I believe that a fetus is not a baby at that point, I do believe it is a baby. Probably very soon after conception. Um, I'm in agreement with Bow, there. But, I, I believe it is a necessary evil of our society and that what we were discussing before sex education. We've been negligent and, um, therefore many women are falling pregnant and don't have an option of course there are these women that are career women and saying that it won't fit in my life. But if that woman is so selfish at that point. I would rather, there are so many children that are neglected, in our societies today, I'd rather she get rid of it than have it, because, rather than seeing another child being brought up in a, uh, a selfish home (Vivian: Right) with a selfish mother. But I do feel that if we go back to the 1950s where women were having backyard abortions, sticking coat hangers up themselves and damaging themselves for life so they couldn't have another child or women that are raped by their family, or strangers on the street and have to hate that child for their entire life. I don't think that's fair. I think the law should be there to protect women, and I think it's a total feminist issue. And I'm enraged when I hear men in government talk about it.

Vivian: Well, there's a lot of details about each side, you know, for example, I could just bring up the fact, um, lots of people like for women, lots of people think it's the women's choice, it is her body. No, I could always say. OK, but there are so many people that wanna adopt children but can't have children. Why couldn't this person instead of get, um, having the child or you know, and keeping it, why don't they have it wait the 8 months or 10 months, have the child and give it up for adoption to the couples who really, really want a child. But then, that person can also argue, hey, that 8 to 10 months that's a whole year out of my life that's changing my body and that really does change my life in a sense. And so maybe I don't wanna partake in something like that. And so that could be an argument there, and then here's another argument, a lot of people say (Bow: One at a time, one at a time) sure, ok, but this is, this kinda goes along with that. What if the woman doesn't want that and the man, there is always a man involved, I mean, we always say it's the woman's body but, is it the man's choices as well? And what if he does want the child, and the woman doesn't. Let's attack this one.

Daisy: OK. I believe that if it's a man and a woman that are involved in a mutual loving relationship and they're living together and they have the means to have that child? I believe in that case that the man has a fifty percent ' say.' Um, if it was a casual one night affair, I don't think he has a choice, he was simply sleeping with the woman and they were mutually using each other if they, if you like, I don't think he has any say in... that woman because she had a one-night stand with him for nine months she has to bear his child. That's absurd. (Vivian: But you guys)

Luke: But what if he's saying he wants to support it and he's willing to go through with it? It's up to the woman and to, to consider. (Daisy: Yeah, it is up to her.) But the man actually if he is a full a full, uh, like a full partner in the relationship has exactly 50%? (Daisy: I think that he does have same) even though it is the woman's body 50%, exactly that? (Vivian: 50%? Would you like it to be 40?) (Vivian: I don't know...)

Luke: What would you do? If it was 50% you couldn't really dc) anything?

Daisy: You have to take it to the court, in a court of the law. (Bow: What should the law be?) What should the law be? (Bow: Yeah.) Well, i guess that they have to take. (Bow: What do you think?) What do I think? I guess every situation's gonna be different I mean that's the thing, I mean, if the woman could possibly lose her entire career. Say she's in a country like Korea where you know, I mean, some women are discriminated against if they're married and have children in the work place. Um, if it's going to discriminate against her career and she's got, she's got a great future ahead of her, then, you know, I think we should be more thinking about the woman. If it's, if it's likely that she can have more children in the future.

Luke: I'm surprised you gave the man 50%, that's why I said it.

Luke: That's very generous.

Vivian: I also take into consideration that we're kind of thinking more along the western side, I don't know about Europe or up other countries, but in America a woman has six months maternal leave. So you know, before she even shows she can take off and come back after she's had the baby. In Korea, apparently, you don't have maternal leave, you only I mean, you can only leave for one month, I'm not even sure, but you certainly don't have six months.

Daisy: Two months.

Vivian: Two Months. Anyways but, either way, I mean, the situation is totally different that would put you (Daisy: Right) totally put you back if you were in a different country.

Daisy: It would, and I think that's something to take into consideration, but even in our country, I mean even though it's more accepted and there's a lot of people that, that generally do support pro-choice. You've gotta consider religion. There are so many religious factions. In every country, and me I grow up in a Catholic family. If my father heard me talk like this, he'd probably have a cow, but these are my choices, but I'm not making my, my choice on, you know, a scientific fact or, or even a religious or emotional fact. I see it as a necessity in our society. And I do believe it's a feminist issue.

Luke: Well. That's the idea here too. It's kind of in Korea or in Asia it's a catch 22, because according to society you know you're not supposed to, you're not supposed to fornicate. But people do, because it's a natural they wanna have sex, some you know, some accidents happen, and they have a baby. But then they make abortion illegal. And you're not, and if you're pregnant out of wedlock, then you're look down on in society. So, what are you supposed to do really in that case? (Vivian: Exactly)

Bow: They set up things here, in these Confucian societies, (Vivian: Sure) you have no choices really.

Daisy: But, I do think it's become a little too common as Luke was saying before, there are some women out there that are using this as a form of contraception, which is just amoral you know, it's not acceptable. And I think that we need to kind of get back to educating people that this is not ok and it's, not.., apparently I was told by a doctor that it's not good for a woman. The more a woman has an abortion, the less chance she has of falling pregnant again.

Vivian: Right, and having a healthy baby too, and it causes pro, problems for herself, too.

Daisy: Yeah. So I think if we're gonna clamp down as a society on abortion. Not saying it's wrong that women still have these choices, but offer other al... (Vivian: Alternatives) alternatives and opportunities for them. OK. Say to the career woman. Alright. If you have this child these are the benefits that we can give you, this is the help we can give you and finding the child a good home. Um, You know with adoption and things like that. Think about if the government wants to, you know, move away from so many people having abortion, then offer other alternatives and options.

Vivian: The, the options certainly do have to be there, but also there is the moral aspect you know, which if you're doing it for contraceptive reasons or because it was an accident and you really weren't careful or because you could have it, but you couldn't. Anyways but we have to make that moral issue much more of a stronger point in society now and also, I mean, if you're doing it just you could have the baby but I just don't want to and this was just an accident. That should be like a public thing. People would.., it should be like a standard thing that we think that is not right, you know, I mean you should only do this, in the case of, this is my personal opinion, but if you were raped or, in extreme circumstances, if you're very young, and it really was an accident, and you have no other options left to you, I mean, then I think that should be an option for you.

Bow: Um, this is kind of getting back to what we were talking about, or I was talking about before with the titles of pro-choice or pro-life. But, um, have you seen the movie? What is it? If Walls Could Speak, it is all about abortion? (Vivian: Yes, If walls could talk) well, if walls could talk, yes. And in Boston, there's a lot of um, abortion clinics, and there's a lot of pro-lifers who stand outside. There was a guy that close to my house, an abortion clinic that was close to my house and a guy went in there and killed one of the doctors. He's under the title pro-life which is kind of a contradiction because he's taking a life (Daisy: Exactly) He trying to say, but his excuse is that I'm trying to save many lives by taking one, But how does that work? you know, I don't understand that.

Vivian: It's like a vigilante kind of instance, and he is kind of contradicting himself but he's saying I'll save a majority versus one. (Daisy: Right, so many babies)

Bow: I know what he's saying but, I mean, those women are gonna, have gone through the decision. The hard task of making a decision to go there, are not gonna stop there.

Daisy: Right. What is fascinating to me is, that here, there is so much talk. People's protesting outside abortion clinics today. But abortion has been around for centuries, and it wasn't performed by a doctor, it was, basically, you know, you know, you go to your local herb doctor or witch doctor, and you can, an abortion can be performed with simple herbs like ginger and parsley. And this has been going on for centuries. The African, a lot of tribes in Africa, they believe, that it is solely up to the woman as the giver of life and she is the representation of god and if she falls pregnant then it is her decision whether she brings that life forth. They believe that if that life is not wanted then why should it be brought into the world, it should brought into the world when it's loved. And they've been using these herbs for, for uh, centuries, to perform abortions, so it's not a modern day issue. It's not something, you know, in other cultures it is accepted within their religions. So you know, I, I've, I kind of don't understand why people are, maybe because it's just public now. I don't get it.


sunyuting1 2008-06-06 00:21
分拆语音

4. Abortion and Sexual Education  B1 的43分38.36秒到58分43秒结束的语音文本


Bow: That makes it a very easy decision for the man who had impregnated the woman (Daisy: Right) in that culture. (Daisy: Right) If it's up to her. OK. You do it, he doesn't have to pay for anything and he doesn't have to have the guilt.

Daisy: He doesn't have to go out and hunt goats or something.

Vivian: OK, so I think the moral issue should be, really emphasized. I mean first of all, men should take responsibility, it's not a hit and go kind of thing, you know, you should stick around even if you weren't involved, until the process is over, and through with whether it's carrying it out to the end, or watching it through until she has the baby. And I should al... always emphasize adoption being, you know, an option. (Daisy: An option.) You know, if all else fails, hey, you know, I honestly think if that would happen to me, adoption, you know, I couldn't find other options for myself, I would always consider adoption the last resort, you know.

Vivian: Abortion, the last resort?

Daisy: No. Adoption. I mean that should be something that's there. You know, if I can't keep this baby or if we can't raise it together or something. My parents couldn't raise it. That should always be.

Luke: I do agree that, that bringing a child to term and seeking out that route, is the noble thing to do, (Vivian: Sure) but I just don't think everybody is up to it. And if they're not up to it, I mean, (Vivian: Exactly) If they are like way to stressed and. way to freaked out and they're going through this turmoil. I think a lot of the formative stuff that goes into baby's character, probably happens in the womb before it's even popped up.

Vivian: You know they're always talking about people who are raped or in, you know, abused situations where it was a very tra... (Luke: traumatic) traumatic event. Event? Ok. Incident, and so maybe they don't even want this at all.

Bow: Not always though, a friend of my grandmother's, I remember this story, when I was young, she, uh, I met her. She had a really great personality, I always thought of her as a funny lady. She was travelling in the Philippines, and was raped at, at night, she had no idea who was and she had the baby, and I remember the kid. And the kid was just like her, she raised the kid. And the kid was very happy. I believed it at that time, so it just depends on you know, who raises the kid. I suppose (Daisy: No, Yeah) ...

Vivian: We're talking about the person themselves not the baby too, I mean, it does depend on the person. You know, you could be a very young girl, and have been raped, I mean, this may be traumatic for you. Not only that but there are also health reasons, why like young children, if your body is not fully developed, you cannot carry a baby to term. It's dangerous to your body. And so a lot of doctors make that argument that, you know, if your body has not come to age yet, or it's not fully developed you're not up to bearing a baby yet.

Daisy: Well, not just that, I mean, you know, I mean, you've got a 17-year-old kid who's promiscuous and is pregnant, and you're going to leave it up to her to take care of her body for nine months? She could be drinking, (Vivian: Sure) she could be having more, you know, sex. She could be having, taking drugs she you never know. But the point that Bow made about his, the story about his grandmother I mean, in an ideal society. (Bow: Grandmother's friend.) Ah! Sorry. In an ideal society, we'd all be doing that, but it's not an ideal society. And it's up to us to provide other options or I think the only way we're gonna solve this problem is by educating our children. (Luke: Yeah) Letting them know that of course yes, abortion exists. Because if we, if we make it illegal again we're gonna have women hurting themselves. And there's gonna be butchers, you know in, uh, in abortion clinics. You know, just cutting these women up and it is just gonna go back. It'll be chaos. (Bow: Knowledge is power) So. It is. So, let's treat our kid let's teach our kids, um, so that this doesn't happen so we're not having them pregnant, they are not getting the diseases, and this doesn't become, even become an issue.

Luke: They have to have all of the options available to them. but it has to start at the very foundations of the education system again. (Daisy: Yes, yes.) It's like, and you have to, people have to impress of course. I think it’s uh, it's human nature you want to see if it's, something like that happens, you wanna see it come to term, you wanna see a new life brought into the world. That's the human, that's the basic fundamental human impulse. It's like procreate. That's the most beautiful thing. It doesn't work for everybody. It doesn't, it doesn't end happily in every situation. So for that reason I think it has to be an option. But ultimately I disagree with, with doing it. It's an, it's an, (Daisy: Abortion) it's a shitty thing that you have to go through. I'm sure. I'll never experience it, but women I know who've done it, it's been like, you know, the hardest dec.., the hardest decision they've ever had to make to go actually through with it.

Daisy: But then, the problem is that today, you know, actually I have a friend in Australia and she's had five abortions and she's 28. (Luke: Yeah) and she is using it as a form of contraception. And she said I just had my fifth abortion when I last went home, and I said to her "Do you know like know about the pill," or you know other forms of contraception. And she said, yeah but if I, if I take the pill, you know, I'm gonna gain weight, and this is just like, she's, just become such a superficial person where she can check herself in her lunch break, break into an abortion clinic, have an abortion, come out and go back to work and has no emotional attachment whatsoever.

Vivian: See? In that situation, it is extreme. (Vivian: Extreme and it's unexceptable, it's amoral, you know) Well, obviously, we have a group of people here, that.., you know we don't have any extreme people, you know, we're not extremely pro-choice or pro-life. But how about we attack this question? We obviously are kind of pro-life but also pro-choice, for the extreme pro-choice people of course they wanna say, hey, from day one, from day one the child is alive and you can't kill it after that day. Right? (Daisy: Pro-life people) Right. So I mean where exactly in your opinion is, does life begin? Because in America I think for most states, you know, abortion is legal or not, uh, or illegal in states depending on, it's their decision. But, um, usually I think it's two months is the... (Daisy: You can have an, you can have an abortion up to your first trimester) Right. Somewhere around there. So in your personal opinions how far can you take it or you shouldn't take it at all?

Bow: I already answered that earlier I said that I believe it's right from the beginning even before the egg and the sperm meet. It's life in, everything. (Vivian: Do you think?) Yeah, I believe that. (Vivian: You too, Luke? How about you Daisy?)

Daisy: Yeah, well, you know, I believe that I said that, you know, shortly after conception I believe it's becoming a child, a baby, a human. But I don't believe that it's a life until it's connected with the mother and mother has connected with it. And I believe that when the woman makes that decision that I'm going to have this child and I'm going to love this child or I'm going to carry this child, so it'll be loved by someone else then it's a life and then it's a life that it's important. It's important.

Luke: It's becomes, I just think it's a life from the beginning but as it becomes more complex, it's a trickier decision. It's sorta like how you feel bad about like, uh, killing a bird, but you don't feel bad about squashing a bug. It's all life, you don't feel bad about plucking a dandelion. It's just higher things that we see as being more close to us are harder for us to try to snuff out. And as a child develops and grows and becomes more like us with our own like genetic material. I think that's when it really starts to become uh, like you.

Vivian: The reason why I ask this question is because, sure when we look at it that way it's, it's an, a simple answer, hey, you know, it's, it's life from the beginning or what not. But what if we made that situation more complicated, what if it was your daughter, Bow, and she was raped by some stranger on the street and, listen, listen, and she is only a teenager, she's young, she was raped, she doesn't know who the hell this person was, you know, and what if she is put in that situation, what if she didn't know she was pregnant, hey? Oh! And wait, what if she's a lot of people, no, a lot of people don't show until what they're third or fourth months. Am I right, Daisy? I mean, what if she found out after the first trimester, after a certain point where a lot of people don't agree, hey, after this point you shouldn't have it. But what if the situation is totally  she's too young, she's, you know, emotionally upset, and she cannot accept this. What if she made the choice that she doesn't want it. How would you feel about that?

Bow: Now? (Vivian: Yeah) Well, that's the thing I'm the Dad of this person. You're a woman. What if it was you? What would you do? I don't, I don't know what I will do.

Vivian: Yeah, OK. What if it was your partner, and what if it is your female counterpart. Then it's your choice together, right?

Bow: Yeah, I don't know what I would do. What would you do? If it was you?

Vivian: But see that's what I'm asking. When you simply say, when is, when does life begin, and how far can you take it, you guys earlier said from day one. But then when you complicate the situation you really can't give an answer.

Daisy: Well, you can. Because the law says after your first trimester you cannot legally have an abortion, and I, I would be pretty.., uh...

Vivian: But not in all countries.

Daisy: Well, almost all of them.

Vivian: But. Let's say that wasn't true, that's, what it is the whole.

Daisy: Say that wasn't true?

Vivian: No, no, no. I'm saying the whole issue, is they're still arguing where does life begin, where does it end, whether to make this legal or not. I mean that's what I'm asking. If the situation was complicated like that I mean, it was your own daughter, or your own mate, I mean, could you say?

Luke: Once they hit elementary school, it's too late to abort.

Vivian: Yeah, I think so too.

Daisy: Yeah, definitely. I don't know, I mean that's a tough, you know, I mean, that's basically the scientific evidence that most pro-lifers are arguing with with pro-choicers. And you know, I just, the scientific information, for me it's more of uh, a spiritual thing. I think that it is wrong to just use abortion as contraception which we've all said. But I do believe that it is a connection that, that connection makes life, our connection with each other, our relationships with each other, and my future relationship with my child when I have a child I know I'm pregnant and when I accept that and I'm already loving that child and bringing it into life, that's when the connection for me would be. And I think most women feel that way.

Luke: And I think it's easy to talk about, talk about, you know, when you're in a vacuum and saying, this is the right thing, and I'm morally like this, and I believe in this thing. But, uh, yeah, unless you have experienced all the emotions that come with it. And the actual going through with it. Who knows what you're gonna do? (Daisy: Exactly) I mean, you don't know what you think. It's easy to like take this hypothetical situation, (Daisy: Sure) and say, well you know, after thinking through it and stuff, and go through all this pedantic sort of B.S. But I mean yeah, doing it is, actually where you're gonna find your answer and being put in that situation you can't rationalize that.

Bow: Well, that's why it is, what it is today. Everything's messed up, because everybody, not everybody has gone through it. So we have these opinions which we think this could be a basic foundation but people will still from now until the end of time they will still um, keep talking about this, (Daisy: Sure) and keep going through the same situations over and over again. You just keep your opinions, you know, like what you think and you try to do but you hope of course a situation like that would not happen. But if it does arise then you try to deal with it as it comes.

Daisy: Sure, that's fine. These people in the government (Luke: Speaking on your behalf of course) are going to make decisions about my future and my body, and I wanna have a say in that. I'm not impressed when conservative Rush Limbaugh or whoever else it happens to be in government at the time. Would stand up there and tell me what rights I have as a woman, and what I can do with my body, I'm offended.

Bow: But there are also republican or conservative women in congress who're voting for these laws too.

Daisy: Yes, there are. But they have a right to talk about that. Because they are women, I accept that. But I don't, I, I, draw the line when I've got a bunch full of white male conservatives discussing my future and other women's future.

Vivian: Right. I agree with that, but I do believe, I'm sorry to go against all the females out there. But I do believe they do have a word in there, because, um, a very small word. I'm not saying a big word.

Luke: I think for a woman in a situation where it wasn't uh, a mutually mutual relationship this has happened, an experience to people I know. Um, not, not a close situation, all of a sudden a pregnancy came up unexpectedly the man was, I want no part of this, and the woman was like and don't sweat it, I don't want to make you a part of it. That's fine. If you're, if you're interested in pursuing it further than go ahead but, I'm choosing to go... go ahead with this anyway. And I think the guy eventually sort of just came around to the idea. He wanted to be a part of it... like she was gonna go through with it anyways. She was like I'll find a way, I\m really gonna do this, I'm gonna go ahead and I'm gonna do it. And then she came, and then the guy was just sort of like uh, she's doing it without me. That's half my kid, man.

Bow: Actually, you know, I think that happens in a lot of cases, um, one partner makes the decision and it's like somebody is waiting for the other one to say, yes, we can do this. And then once you get that consensus, then you go ahead and then you find out what child rearing is, child bearing and child rearing and it turns out to be a very rewarding experience. Exactly. Thank you.

Luke: A rewarding experience.

Vivian: I just wanna touch on what that just reminded me of... was. What if the woman were to go ahead and consent to this and say that she wanted the baby and there was the male who didn't want anything to do with it. Doesn't he have something to say, when he says I don't want my child being born. What about that aspect of this story, no?

Bow, Daisy: No.

Vivian: No?

Luke: I don't think so, I don't think I'd feel in a place that I've ever tell a woman, you have to take that child's life, if she felt, she felt, if she felt that she was good enough to do it and she was up for the job, no one else would be more qualified than her.

Vivian: OK. Let's wrap up with maybe a comment from each of us. How do you feel over all and maybe then, some thoughts?

Bow: Um, I think Daisy brought up a really pertinent point which was, which can kind of almost sum up everything which is that education is the key point. (Vivian: Definitely) And, uh, educate people, and let them know what's going on as much as you can, put more money into the schools for that purpose and uh...

Vivian: And the parents should get involved, too. It's not just schools, (Luke: Talk to your kids, to your kids) don't make it just the schools' or governments' responsibility.

Daisy: Hopefully, you know, if we are able to do that, if we are talking to our children, and we are teaching them in schools, getting them as much information as possible, and trusting their judgment, maybe they won't even get to the situation where they'll have to think about abortion. But, you know, we've got to do something.

Vivian: And sadly enough if you were put in that situation, this is my personal opinion, but I think each situation is different regardless if it's pregnancy, or violence, or what not. You have to kind of take it for each circumstance (Daisy: Right) on its own. We can't just judge everything.

Daisy: There is no black and white.
级别: 管理员
只看该作者 127 发表于: 2009-02-10
sunyuting1 2008-06-06 07:25
将原音分拆四个语音:
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sunyuting1 2008-06-06 08:04
1. Abortion and Sexual Education的前15分钟4秒语音对应的文本


SIDE A


Ok, today we're talking about
a real sensitive issue.
It's abortion and
of course sexual education,
it all kinds of,
you know,
combines into each other.


Vivian:

This is Viv.

Daisy:
Yeap! This is Daisy.
Yes, a very heated topic.
I don't know
what do you think.
Bow.

Bow:
This is Bow!
It's short for Bow Seaffas.
Anyway,
I think this is a hot topic
all over the world.
So let's dig our heels
in and get going.

Luke:
Yeah,
the life-giving force that
we all have inside of us,
that procreative impulse,
that just seems to
keep on going
like a spark that
can never be snuffed out.
Let's rap gang.

Vivian:
Hello everyone welcome
and uh
let's introduce ourselves.

Luke:
How are you doing?
This is Luke!

Bow:
And I am Bow!

Daisy:
And I am Daisy!

Vivian:
And this is Viv!

Vivian:
Today's topic is sexual education.
Let's start off by saying,
hey,
where did you guys start off?
I mean,
how'd you get your sexual education?

Daisy:
Well, urn, well,
actually I was kind of brought up
in a very strict Catholic family
and my mother was very reluctant
to tell me about anything.
Actually,
my funny story,
my sister asked me to go
to the store and
buy her some tampons.
And I had never heard this word before,
didn't even know what they were.
So I went to the shop
and I asked the guy for some tampons,
and he gave them to me.
Looking at these tiny little,
cotton things and thinking,
what the hell are these?
I had no idea.
So I gave them to my sister
and asked her what they were.
And she said,
"Ask mom."
And then I, urn,
asked my mother
and she wouldn't tell me for like two months.
I kept hounding her,
so she gave me this book that
was like published in the sixties.
And it still have pictures of women
that use to wear those sanitary belts
that they attached sanitary napkins,
too. And I couldn't understand any of the words,
I didn't even know
what a penis or a vagina was.

Vivian:
Oh! Daisy.
This is brutal!

Daisy:
And I was pronouncing the word,
as "Penis,"
and "Vagina."
And my cousin came to visit me,
he was like talking about sex.
And I said "I know what sex is."
And he said,
"No, you don't.
What is it?"
And I said,
"well, it's when a man puts his penis
in the women's vagina."

Vivian:
Can I ask
how old you were
when you in first like.

Daisy:
When I got this?
I was probably 10 or 11 I guess.
(Vivian: Really?)

Vivian:
What about
school education?

Bow:
Urn. There was an attempt
at educating students
when I was,
I guess,
in grade four or five.
I must have been just pre-pubescent at that time.
(Vivian: Right)
12, Thereabouts, 11 or 12.
They would take all the boys
and shuttle them into another room
and they would leave all the other girls
in the classroom that they were in.
And then the gym instructor
would take us all and explain
basic things very nervously.
He was a gym instructor.
He was about physical education.
He was,
part of his job description
was not teaching
a bunch of horny pre-pubescent boys
about sex.
But, um,
because the curriculum had changed,
he sort of got stuck with the job.
And I mean it's,
it's kind of stupid.
I mean it should,
it has to be done.
But the thing is by that time,
a lot of kids really do know
quite a bit about sex.
Just because
they have older brothers
or sisters
who sort of fill them in or stuff,
um,
or their friends
do and they've learned stuff from their friends
in a lot of cases.
So I kind of knew a lot of stuff,
but it still was good to have that
. I think because it sort of,
am,
solidified a lot of things,
just so that
you wouldn't be embarrassed
if it ever came up like,
I know there's a lot of
tension for me,
because there were a lot of
spaces missing in the whole sex thing
that I wanted to get like,
you know,
get smart with eventually
before I actually
was gonna be with a girl.
I didn't wanna like just get there and be like "doh",
I've never learned that part,
you know.
So it is not necessary.
(Daisy: They told you that?)
No, I need not to study the general things,
you don't wanna go into it,
you know,
your big romantic first encounter
and end up looking like a spasm,
just because you,
you didn't want,
you know,
ask your buddy. What's that for?
How do you use that or whatever.

Vivian:
What about the parental aspects?
I mean,
did your parents ever like come in
and ask you
or tell you anything?

Luke:
My father would sometimes come up to me,
and ask me
if there was anything that
I wanted to know,
that I was curious about.
Is there any,
you know,
sort of things that you're,
you know,
you'll probably,
you know,
starting to become a man now?
Is there anything that you're curious about?
Wanna know about?
Of course for me,
I was just ' No, that's all right.
Dad, I'm fine.
And he said like,
All Right. Great,
see what's on TV.
That was good enough for us.

Vivian:
And then week,
he'd come back.

Luke:
Just make,
just let you know,
you know,
I'm here,
if you do wanna talk about this stuff,
if you don't,
that's probably,
you know,
just as good
if not better.
(Daisy: That's great.)

Bow:
He was available for that.

Vivian:
How about you Bow?

Bow:
Um,
my sexual education was a little bit warped.
I think it,
kind of all most make me uh,
deviant almost because of it.
Because it was kind of in uh,
little,
clips of things.
So like I guess,
Luke was saying it was for..,
fourth grade or fifth grade.
You start to think about it
when it happens and..
. There are some,
you know,
promiscuous people in that grade too.
Sure they are.
There was,
this couple they were supposedly going out
and there's rumor that they had,
had sex.
So then,
everyone in that grade was like really interested
in what happened,
what happened.
And they said,
well they did it.
And then they both got sick.
So,
we thought that,
that's like what happen
after you do it,
you know,
too early or something you get sick.
But then like the second part of it was after that,
I actually,
caught my parents doing it.
It just like walked into the room
and I thought like my dad
was hurting my mother.
So I said
"Dad, you're hurting mom."
And he said,
"No, just go back to bed. We're OK!"
And then where it gets worse is because
I went to a Catholic school.
They kind of masked sex education as health,
in health class.
You take health.
But you're taught sex education by
a really big and fat
ninety-year-old nun
who says
if anybody laughs,
I'm gonna whack you on the back of your head.
People laughed
and I laughed
and then she said like
this is the penis and this is the vagina...
Boom!
you got whacked in the back of your head.
So now I like uh,
when I have relations I feel like I'm gonna get whacked
in the back of my head in a minute.

Daisy:
Which you do anyway!

Bow:
Turns me on.

Luke:
It still true that
I feel if you laugh during any sort of sexual stuff,
you usually get a slap in a face.

Vivian:
Are we talking
from experience here, right?

Luke:
Oh, yes, sure.
I haven't had sex, yet.

Bow:
Oh yeah sure.
So, but I'm think uh,
nowadays,
like I sound like a real dad like:
"When I was back in school,"
but, it's true like I think
people are more aware of it,
at least in North America,
and they're making it a priority their kins take this sexed.
As a whole class not as
under the guise
of health class.

Vivian:
Right. I think in the past ten,
maybe 15 years,
especially in the American school system
with the addition of sex education.
It may not necessarily be a class
you can select it as an elective
when you enter high school.
But usually you
get this class
during the end of your elementary
or beginning of your junior high years,
you get a couple of classes
with the health teacher or the nurse.
And they teach you,
you know,
all the basic functions
of the body including,
you know,
all the sexual parts,
and that has changed the educational system a lot.
As matter of fact,
there's lots of parents
who are totally against
having sexed in school.
They don't like the fact of the school teaching
it and so
usually you get parental permission
before your child
can enter that class.

Daisy:
Well, when I'm,
I was in elementary school,
um, I went to a Catholic school.
And they didn't teach it
in the school
but what they did
to satisfy the parents
who wanted the education
was have all the kids
go to the local church
after school.
And sit down
while the priest
and the nun gave us sex education.
Which is ironic.

Vivian:
That sounds similar
to Bow's situation.

Luke:
That's why that,
you know.
Catholic school girls
have such a bad reputation cause
they do just the opposite
of what they are not supposed to do.

Vivian:
Exactly.

Daisy:
But, um, basically,
just the biological functions they taught us,
you know,
woman menstruate.
And this is
what happens a
nd then when I went to high school
I had a class like that it was called health.
They were very liberal they taught us about
contraception,
sexual diseases,
everything from drugs,
tobacco,
alcohol,
all those things that
you know
I guess kids are tempted by.
And I thought it was good.
Actually,
I found the class very interesting
because I never had that education
in elementary school,
and I know more
I think about those things
like sexual diseases
than any of my friends do
because I remember that.
I think it's really important to teach kids that,
and give them that
sexual education.

Bow:
The thing that's um,
strange are the statistics like today,
because you know,
say from the forties
for example to the sixties,
or late fifties even though sex education it
was kind of weird talk about it
and it was really scientific and stuff,
but there was less teenage pregnancy then,
than there is now
when they're really adamant about teaching these things
in school.
So like is it just that the kids are not listening
or do they think they no
more than more people?
I don't know.

Luke:
I think it's that,
I think the reason that parents
are against it is
because they think that t
heir children are becoming educated
about the wrong things at too early an age,
but the truth is that kids are growing up they're,
they're maturing a lot faster.
(Daisy: Right.
Much more promiscuous
than they used to be.)
Not necessarily pre-mascuous,
but I mean that they come of,
they sort of come of age
a little earlier and they,
urn, they go through these changes a little earlier
and the thing is they are going to get,
they are gonna get educated,
they are gonna learn about sex,
they're gonna be curious about it,
from a young age.
It's probably better that
like they learn about it
on TVs
and movies
and music,
and on the Internet.
But they don't have that sort of,
urn, educational aspect,
and sort of like what you should do,
maybe and what you shouldn't do.
That's why sex education
it's not like they're gonna,
just go through life,
not even hearing about sex,
not wondering about it
or curious about it,
if they don't get sex education.
But the sex education is good in that,
it sort of says now just be smarter about it,
you know,
like put this on or use this or like maybe,
maybe it's better to wait.
You got to think of your options and
if they won't get that out of a school setting,
they just get sex is dirty,
it's kinda interesting.
They're just curious about it
and they want to learn about it.

Vivian:
For me, you know,
my parents never sat me down,
even to these day,
we've never talked about that topic.
I mean,
we never had that birds
and the bees little talk that everyone get.
So my first contact
with that kind of information
was in elementary school,
just like Luke said,
we had the little class
where the school nurse actually took you aside,
and separated you and told you about
the anatomy.
Perhaps the girls could,
you know,
run into their menstrual cycle
any time soon now.
You should go talk to parents.
And they gave us
this little sample of the sanitary napkins.
So when I first ran into my little accident,
you know,
I had that little sample that
the teacher gave me and
so 'Thank God!'
You know,
cause my mom
and I never talked about that.
And then my second encounter with
that sort of information
was in junior high,
when we had the health class that
Daisy was talking about.
We had the health class where we talked about
all sorts of things starting with drugs
and going down to,
you know, the aca-, uh,
anatomy and sex and what not,
and I think when you're younger,
because children talk, uh,
she went out with so and
so and they did this and that,
of course, you know, t
he movies
and videos all sorts of information that you get on TV.
There's a lot of things
that aren't factual
but you know
lots of rumor things
that you think
may be true
and sexual education kind of reinforces
what you know,
and what may not be factual
and a lot of myths get cleared out of the way,
you know, about STDs,
and AIDS and drugs and
getting this disease and
that of course pregnancy
and what not.

Bow:
Urn, yeah, O.K. But,
I think, uh,
one of the things that you're saying is that
you're unfortunate to not have the talk with your parents,
like everybody does,
I don't think many people do get
that talk actually.
I think it's very rare that people do
and I think like the movie
"American Pie,"
that's why it was so funny
with the father
"Eugene Levvy"
like "Son here's a couple of magazines for you."
Everybody could relate to that,
because that's what parents do.
I think it's just kind of weird to talk to your kids about
and they try to do it,
cause they think it's their duty,
but it doesn't really help.
I don't think so.

Daisy:
I think it's just probably;
it's a really awkward thing.
Because you know
a mother-daughter or father-son relationship is,
you know,
extremely sensitive
where that area is concerned.
A mother doesn't
or father doesn't want his daughter to be,
you know,
even having sexual feelings.
So I think it's very difficult for them,
but that's why I think, urn,
because they're families like that,
that do have difficulties discussing those things,
that it is absolutely,
urn, of the utmost importance,
that education be in schools,
compulsory.
The government should make that the law
whether parents don't like it
or not especially in this day and age.
I don't care what country you're in,
even if you're in Korea,
and they say there's no AIDS which is just
, just misinformation,
you know,
there are,
other sexual diseases out there,
that can stay with you for life,
and you know,
that might not be life threatening
but they are not certainly not comfortable,
and you know,
there's AIDS,
there's... Oh,
there're so many different things.
(Vivian: STDs, sure)
You know,
other than pregnancy
to worry about
(Luke: Psychological things)
Sure.


sunyuting1 2008-06-06 09:05
分拆语音

2. Abortion and Sexual Education  A2 的15分到29分6秒语音对应的文本



Vivian:
I definitely agree with Daisy,
there.
That's definitely true
and then also it doesn't just rely on the government
or the schools.
People always say,
hey, it starts with the home
and it really does,
and for example,
I mean,
if you were to put yourself in those same shoes,
if I had a daughter or a son,
I mean,
I eventually know
I have to talk to them,
sure, this is the position that
many parents are put in is.
I need eventually talk to
my child about
something like this
but "Are they there yet",
so it's kind of like,
kind of,
you know,
test you out,
maybe test out the waters
by coming out and saying...
"So, is there any thing you wanna talk about?"
kind of like in Luke's situation.
But then of course the kids
in the same situation were there,
it's an awkward topic for them,
too. And so they're not gonna say,
yeah. Dad actually I wanna know about this.
So they just keep avoiding the topic.
So you never end up talking about it
even though your child maybe 16, 18, 20.
You never want to admit to yourself.
Oh, my child is sexually active
or is going to be,
and so you never wanna really go
in and you know.
Yes, Bow.

Bow: Um, yeah,
that’s exactly right.
That's how I felt
when I first had my daughter,
and I thought "oh" I'm just gonna be
a strict dad
and she's never gonna have sex,
she's not gonna be with boys
and all this stuffs.
And then I met, uh,
another father,
who has a similar situation.
We called him a Cooter.
Cooter's opinion was that,
that's so stupid.
I mean she's just gonna rebel against
you even more,
she gonna become like a prostitute,
she's gonna do it for money,
you know
it's just a natural res..,
res.., natural thing,
you know.
That's what people do.

Vivian:
God forbid your daughter does
that ten years from now.

Bow:
Yeah, ok.
But um,
anyway
I kind of realized,
you're exactly right,
and I can't do that,
I can't like,
you know
lock her up,
and put a chastity belt on her,
or get the chastity rings...
I just have to
kind of try to raise her,
naturally in hope like
she'll be smart enough
to make her own decisions.
(Daisy: Hope that
she has good judgment)

Vivian:
I definitely think that
the more informed you are,
the smarter you are,
think about it,
when you look at
two 18-year-olds,
for example,
and you have one
that is very much educated
and aware of her surroundings,
and current events
and what not.
One that is not
so much aware of everything
and informed.
When you see the ignorance
and the naivete
of one child versus the other,
you know,
that person
that has more knowledge,
you know,
yeah they're,
they know
what's going on,
but then also they're gonna be,
more aware
of the bad things
and they are gonna be smart about
their choices
and decisions versus the ones
that are not so aware and
so out of curiosity
and ignorance
she's gonna go in there
and most likely be
in a lot more dangerous situations.

Luke:
I think all kids respond to,
uh, to just frankness
and openness.
And it's really hard to do
with a topic like that,
but I find that like coddling kids
and just going like
goo-goo ga-ga
and stuff often
they're just like,
OK,
someone's making
stupid voices to me.
That's not how they really talk
when they're among themselves,
so I think they'd really respond to,
to a subject like that
which is very sensitive
if you can just show
them you're comfortable
talking about it like
at an early age
even if you are not.
If you can just sort of
I don't know
be open about that stuff,
be available to talk about
those sort of things.
I think it
wouldn't be such,
such a hard thing
to talk about
because it really is a natural thing,
you know it's such an obvious thing
and it's just all this other sort of
social conditions
that make it sort of
dodge to talk about,
you know.

Vivian:
And who here at the age
of 15 or 16,
didn't think that
they were mature enough
or adult enough to
hear something like this,
when your parents do
talk to you like that
you're "Yeah, whatever",
and then it just makes
you revolt against them more,
when they speak to you
at such a level,
you know,
when they
if your parents had actually talking you
at the age of 15 and
sat you aside and sai.
"Hey, you're an adult now,
you're mature enough
to listen to this.
Hey, let's just talk to each other
like adults.
This is how it is,
and if you're gonna get involved
or I would prefer that you don't
let me know
this is how it goes.
If they are very frank with you,
I mean,
I honestly think that,
yeah, I would probably respond,
not only with that,
you know,
the whole sexual aspects
but with many other aspects as well,
at a much more mature level.
And probably grown up a little bit.

Bow:
You're saying that
if your parents were frank with you then
(Vivian: Yeah, I'm just)
I disagree with that.
(Vivian: You do why?)
Because I think the point
that you made
that teenagers,
urn, do think that they are mature
because of that reason
they don't wanna listen to anybody.
And I think you don't realize that
until you become an adult,
and I think
if you're frank with them,
yeah, they could be
"yeah, whatever,
whatever, whatever."

Daisy:
Yeah,
but it depends on the attitude that
you have towards them,
I mean
if you're treating your children like
a baby the entire time,
I mean that,
(Luke: And suddenly come up
and say, OK,
let's talk about t
he birds and bees.)
Exactly.

Luke:
I mean you have to open
with them even from a young age
like just sort of let them know like
"this is what makes girls girls,
this is makes boys boys,"
and like start
at the really basic stuff like that,
I mean.

Vivian:
Cause the entire
raising the child experience
is an educational thing
from very the beginning
it leads gradually,
and slowly,
and eventually
toward the sex education thing
as well.

Bow:
OK thanks.
I'll remember that.

Daisy:
Well, you know,
I just think that
we're so way
beyond on this discussion
I don't think
it's even about
how we approach it with out
kids any more.
I think it should be
forced down their throats.
I think whether the government
has to do that,
the school has to do that,
or the parents,
it should be made
some law that
makes it compulsory.
Because I am not,
I don't want my child,
if, even if she can't
talk to me
even if I have a great relationship
with my child,
if he or she
can't talk to me,
I wanna know
she's getting
that information somewhere else.
(Vivian: Right)
Because it's just way
to dangerous.
You take Korea,
for an example,
you know,
here's a country that
has basically,
my niece,
I asked
what she gets in school.
And they're still just
giving them the biological processes,
you menstruate,
the penis is inserted
into the vagina
and so on,
and so on,
so on.
And she really knows
nothing about
how to protect herself from pregnancy.
She doesn't know
anything about
sexual diseases.
She still thinks,
and so does the rest of Korea,
which just makes me
insanely angry,
that you can get AIDS
by drinking out of the same
cup as someone,
you know,
I mean,
it's just misinformation,
and the thing,
this is a country
that has nightclubs
that have professional,
you know,
dm,
hookers working there.
And it's not just Korea.
It's the rest of Asia
as well,
and urn,
it's ok to
have hookers
working in nightclubs as,
you know,
girls that peel your fruit or
pour your drink.
But it's not ok
to teach the rest
of the country
that you need to wear a condom
that you need to
protect yourself,
that there's AIDS,
there's other sexual diseases out there.

Luke:
What are the names
of those night clubs?

Vivian:
Anyways,
I do have to agree
with Daisy on one point
is the actual amount of education
you are getting
and at what age, too.
As I was saying before,
I learned about
the anatomy
in elementary school.
But then like said especially
when you are at that age
you're very sensitive
and you hear a lot of information
and that's not actually factual,
a lot of it is,
just a lot of gossip
that kids pass around.
Hey, if you do this,
you get this.
This happens to you
such and such.
Literally,
ninety percent of it
is all false,
I mean,
its false information
and you should be informed
with factual information
whether it’s from school,
or homes
or whatever.
And even to this day,
even from adults
that I speak to,
my friends.
There's a lot of people
that are totally misinformed about
certain things,
I mean,
they may know it
up to a certain point,
but then that they don't know the,
the rest of it.
You know,
I mean I'm talking about
30-year-old adults
who don't know the,
the entire picture,
you know,
and I mean,
when these children
are going up to junior high
and they know basically the,
the little skeleton,
but they don't know
the meaty part of it,
and then they hear
all these rumors.
Even though,
you think you're supposed to know
you're not so sure,
and when you hear these rumors.
Oh, that must be true,
I mean,
if they get factual information
instead of being misinformed
by their peers,
wouldn't that change
a lot of things.

Luke:
Sure.
I was growing up,
uh,
a lot of,
uh,
people
that I knew
who were starting to
experiment with sex
under the understanding
that you couldn't get pregnant
the first time.
And you couldn't get pregnant
if you did it in a certain position,
if the girl was on top
or something.
So that was sort of a form
of birth control,
you know.
I wonder
how many people
got themselves
in a lot of trouble.
It's the first time.
Forget about it.

Bow:
Girls believe that.
You win there.

Vivian:
I have a totally prime example;
this is just something recent
that I had recently read.
I heard that in Korea
a form of,
I think,
I don't know,
if it was Korea
or America whatever,
but maybe twenty years ago,
a form of birth control
was pulling out
before the male ejaculated.
(Luke: It helps.)
It helps,
yeah,
but
that is not 100 percent.
That is not
(Daisy: Coitus interrupt us)
contraception.
That is totally not,
you know,
and I was trying to explain,
no actually.
You know,
it leaks out a little bit,
and then also even,
and that's totally
not contraception.
And then the second fact
which wasn't a fact was,
um,
there were many women
that were confused as to
when you're menstruating
if you
have intercourse,
you couldn't get pregnant,
or when you're menstruating
that was the time
when you do get,
you know,
pregnant,
which was true.
And so they were confused as to
which was actually true.
And so that
is very dangerous information
to have,
if you are on the wrong
side of.

Daisy:
Well,
that's the rhythm method,
and that's what the Catholic Church
tried to get everybody
to use it
and that's why Catholic parents
have so many children.
(Luke: That's why it's the main religion
in Christianity.)

Vivian:
If you're to go to a doctor,
ask him
if this is true or not,
he probably would laugh
in your face,
because,
first of all,
this is not a way to,
you know,
protect yourself,
and perhaps
if you don't wanna conceive children
that is not the way
to go about things.
And second,
it isn't true,
you know,
I mean
that is totally false information.

Luke:
But it's hard,
if people don't,
if kids don't
have anywhere to go to other
than friends'
who also don't know the score,
and if parents aren't really
forthcoming with that
kind of information
and they don't get it
in the schools,
like where are they gonna get it.

Daisy:
That's why,
you know,
I urge,
you know parents
to go and
join their PTA
to write their local member
to get their governments
to do something
to make it compulsory
in schools.

Bow:
I think it is actually
in the States
(Luke: It is.)
(Vivian: In America)
the problem is,
with that is,
even though
like anything else,
US history is compulsory,
but you gotta,
a lot of kids
in the poor neighborhoods
don't go to school.
(Daisy: Right)
So they are not showing up
for the class,
you know.

Daisy:
Well that's why
I think that
there needs to be
some type of standard in,
you know,
in sex education in schools,
and as Bow said,
you know,
of course there are the
poor kids,
you know,
in poor neighborhood that
aren't getting that education.
But there are you know,
I, I, the government
even in the states,
is trying to do things about
that I mean,
they've got welfare offices set up
and people that go out,
they talk to women
who are single mothers
having children
and give them information
about,
you know,
how to protect themselves
both from sexual disease,
and pregnancy.
And I think it has to be
a national effort
in any country
that you live in.
If you have children
and you're not involved,
then you're not doing enough.
You have to go,
you have to write
to your local member.
You have to go to
the village meeting,
discuss these things
they're important.
And if you're not involved,
then
if your child
does get pregnant
then you are responsible
for that.

Vivian:
And I think this eventually
leads to another question
that is actually
a very hot issue,
especially
in the western countries these days.
I mean,
what if
all of this sexual education,
it didn't work out
in the end. Hey,
what if, uh,
it just didn't work out the way
you wanted it for,
your daughter
or son?
What if they did
get pregnant
or what if they got
someone else pregnant,
they'd been a situation
where what?
They may be students
and they couldn't finish their education
or they'd be force to
have home education.
There is a lot of situations
going on out there.
And of course even as
a young adult
or an elder adult,
you may get pregnant
and that is not the situation
that you had
planned on.
There are some options
out there for you
and they're difficult options,
and we can discuss
some of the options
first, and see
how we all feel about this,
um,
obviously the topic
is adopt..,
um,
I'm sorry,
adoption?
Ok.
Those are one of the choices,
yeah, that's one of the choices,
but abortion.
It is a really hot steamy issue,
lots of people get very urn,
sensitive about this one,
so let's start off
by saying like
where we kind of stand.
Are you pro?
Or
Are you against abortion?
Are you for abortion?
And second
let's talk about
the choices
that are involved
with that.
You wanna start up Bow?
Are you
(Bow: Me?)
Luke?

Bow:
Um,
I think that.

Vivian:
What side are you on first?

Bow:
I don't choose either side,
I'm neither pro-choice
nor pro-life.
But I do, I
believe that,
um,
there shouldn't be
an abortion
if people are,
can be responsible,
if they have the ability
to be responsible,
but they're just choosing
not to be because
oh,
it's gonna be so hard on me.
I don't agree with that.
I agree in extreme situations
where depending on
how that child
is gonna be raised,
if the child is gonna
grow up to be,
you know,
raised in a terrible
environment
then maybe the best choice
would be to,
you know,
go ahead
for the abortion.
Um,
if it had to do
with a mother's health,
um,
basically yes.
级别: 管理员
只看该作者 128 发表于: 2009-02-10
sunyuting1 2008-06-06 10:46
分拆语音

3. Abortion and Sexual EducationB1 的29分6秒到43分38.36秒的语音文本



------
SIDE B
------

Vivian:
OK. Let's,
let's get back to
that in a little,
in a minute here.
We can talk about
the details.
OK, Daisy.
Do you wanna tell us
where you stand?

Daisy:
OK. Well,
actually
I just wanna to ask
Bow a question.
Um, I just wanna to ask him
if you do have like
obviously
I understand
what you're saying
and probably
pretty much most peoples' views
are the same,
but how could you make a law
to make a standard
for that type of thing,
how could you say:
it's ok for this person to
have an abortion
but it's not ok for a woman
in her thirties
who's not married,
but has the financial
ability to have a child?

Vivian:
There's a wide grey area.

Bow:
Yeah,
I don't know,
it's, I don't,
I'm not a law maker,
I don't know that
is still uh,
just, uh,
just my opinion.
That's what I think,
(Vivian: Exactly)
and I,
it should be talked about more.
People that do make laws
and people that
do make theirs,
you know,
who have these problems
and these situations come up,
and we should be talked about.

Luke:
But you're basically
pro-choice,
but you don't think
you don't feel that,
that it should be used as a form
of birth-control for example.
(Vivian: It shouldn't be abused.)

Bow:
If you have to label it,
but I think,
you know within
the label of pro- choice
or extreme pro-choice people,
and there are extreme pro-life.
But I'm more you know,
in the middle of both of those.

Luke:
Of course,
I would say the same.
I would say
that I'm definitely pro- choice,
but I think that yeah,
abortion is not something
that you just,
you just,
sort of do for the heck of it.
But I don't think,
I don't think that's any human,
in a person's nature,
I mean,
if someone's gonna,
gonna have a child,
a woman is,
obviously,
is gonna have the child,
there's gonna be some
kind of attachment to,
and some kind of like
psychological factor there.
That doesn't make it
an easy decision
in any,
in any situation.
I think
if it's a repeated thing,
if it's, it happens continually,
there's a obviously problem there
and I don't know,
it's hard to regulate that
(Bow: Yeah)
but I also,
I don't think that someone
who's definitely not ready,
and not interested
in raising a child
and isn't gonna give a 100%,
or isn't just like,
mentally
and emotionally prepared
for that,
for that to happen.
I don't know
if it's if it's a wise move
and if there not,
if they're not fully committed to it.
That's the first sign that it's,
uh, no,
shouldn't do it,
shouldn't be done,
shouldn't happen,
do the abortion,
give the child,
like a fair shot
a having a real life
kind of thing.

Vivian:
So both you guys are
kind of in the pro-choice section
but not very,
you know,
(Daisy: Pro-life)
right.

Bow:
I don't think
for the extreme pro-choice people
who say like, uh,
it's gonna ruin my caree
r and this kind of thing,
if that person has confidence
in themselves,
and I believe that
they could rise above that,
they could take care of a child,
and then,
I think once that
they started to
raise the child
and they could,
people do it all the time,
they have careers
and they raise children,
they become successful.
And the children go to college
and they become successful,
and become a great member of society.
But did you say
like to look ahead into the future
and say no,
this is just gonna ruin everything for me,
so, I'm just gonna,
you know,
cut this embryo out,
and it's nothing,
it doesn't mean anything,
but I believe that the,
um, pro-, extreme pro-choicers say that
it's not a life yet and,
but I don't believe,
I believe it is a life,
it's not a human yet.
But it is, it is life,
like every cell in your body's life,
plants are life,
you know.
So that's my opinion.
(Luke: Yeah)

Vivian:
OK, Daisy.
Where do you stand?
Do you have
a firm stand on either way?

Daisy:
Well,
I'm definitely pro-choice.
I believe that abortion
should be,
should be legal.
But for different reasons.
Not because
I don't believe that
a fetus is,
urn, not a baby yet.
I believe
exactly the same thing
that Brandan does,
not because I believe that
a fetus is not
a baby at that point,
I do believe it is a baby.
Probably very soon
after conception.
Um,
I'm in agreement with Bow,
there.
But, I,
I believe it
is a necessary evil
of our society
and that what we were discussing
before sex education.
We've been negligent
and, um,
therefore many women
are falling pregnant
and don't have an option
of course there are these women that
are career women
and saying that
it won't fit in my life.
But
if that woman is so selfish
at that point.
I would rather,
there are so many children
that are neglected,
in our societies today,
I'd rather she get rid of it
than have it,
because,
rather than seeing another child
being brought up in a, uh,
a selfish home
(Vivian: Right)
with a selfish mother.
But I do feel that
if we go back to the 1950s
where women
were having backyard abortions,
sticking coat hangers up themselves and
damaging themselves
for life
so they couldn't
have another child
or women that
are raped
by their family,
or strangers on the street
and have to hate that
child for their entire life.
I don't think that's fair.
I think the law should be there
to protect women,
and I think it's a total
feminist issue.
And I'm enraged
when I hear men
in government talk about it.

Vivian:
Well, there's a lot of details about
each side,
you know,
for example,
I could just bring up the fact,
um,
lots of people
like for women,
lots of people think
it's the women's choice,
it is her body.
No,
I could always say.
OK, but there are
so many people
that wanna adopt children
but can't have children.
Why couldn't this person
instead of get, um,
having the child
or you know,
and keeping it,
why don't they have it
wait the 8 months
or 10 months,
have the child
and give it up
for adoption to the couples
who really,
really want a child.
But then,
that person can also argue,
hey, that 8 to 10 months
that's a whole year out of my life
that's changing my body
and that really does change my life
in a sense.
And so maybe
I don't wanna partake
in something like that.
And so that could be
an argument there,
and then here's another argument,
a lot of people say
(Bow: One at a time,
one at a time)
sure, ok,
but this is,
this kinda goes along with that.
What if the woman doesn't want that
and the man,
there is always a man involved,
I mean,
we always say
it's the woman's body but,
is it the man's choices as well?
And what if he does want
the child,
and the woman doesn't.
Let's attack this one.

Daisy:
OK. I believe that
if it's a man and a woman
that are involved
in a mutual loving relationship
and they're living together
and they have the means to
have that child?
I believe in that case
that the man has a fifty percent ' say.'
Um, if it was a casual one night affair,
I don't think he has a choice,
he was simply sleeping
with the woman
and they were mutually using each other
if they,
if you like,
I don't think
he has any say in...
that woman b
ecause she had a one-night stand with him
for nine months
she has to bear his child.
That's absurd.
(Vivian: But you guys)

Luke:
But what if he's saying
he wants to support it
and he's willing to go through with it?
It's up to the woman and to,
to consider.
(Daisy: Yeah, it is up to her.)
But the man actually
if he is a full a full,
uh,
like a full partner
in the relationship
has exactly 50%?
(Daisy: I think that he
does have same)
even though it is the woman's body 50%,
exactly that?
(Vivian: 50%?
Would you like it to be 40?)
(Vivian: I don't know...)

Luke:
What would you do?
If it was 50%
you couldn't really dc)
anything?

Daisy:
You have to take it to the court,
in a court of the law.
(Bow: What should the law be?)
What should the law be?
(Bow: Yeah.)
Well, i guess that they have to take.
(Bow: What do you think?)
What do I think?
I guess every situation's gonna be different
I mean that's the thing,
I mean,
if the woman could possibly lose her entire career.
Say she's in a country
like Korea
where you know,
I mean,
some women are
discriminated against
if they're married
and have children
in the work place.
Um,
if it's going to discriminate against her career
and she's got,
she's got a great future
ahead of her,
then, you know,
I think we should be more
thinking about the woman.
If it's,
if it's likely that
she can have more children
in the future.

Luke:
I'm surprised you gave
the man 50%,
that's why I said it.

Luke:
That's very generous.

Vivian:
I also take into
consideration that
we're kind of thinking
more along the western side,
I don't know
about Europe
or up other countries,
but in America
a woman has six months maternal leave.
So you know,
before she even shows
she can take off and
come back after she's had the baby.
In Korea,
apparently,
you don't have maternal leave,
you only I mean,
you can only leave for one month,
I'm not even sure,
but you certainly
don't have six months.

Daisy:
Two months.

Vivian:
Two Months.
Anyways but,
either way,
I mean,
the situation is totally different that
would put you
(Daisy: Right)
totally put you back
if you were in a different country.

Daisy:
It would,
and I think that's something
to take into consideration,
but even in our country,
I mean
even though
it's more accepted
and there's a lot of people that,
that generally
do support
pro-choice.
You've gotta consider religion.
There are so many religious factions.
In every country,
and me I grow up in a
Catholic family.
If my father heard me talk like this,
he'd probably have a cow,
but
these are my choices,
but I'm not making my,
my choice on,
you know,
a scientific fact or,
or even a religious
or emotional fact.
I see it
as a necessity
in our society.
And I do believe
it's a feminist issue.

Luke:
Well. That's the idea here too.
It's kind of in Korea
or in Asia it's a catch 22,
because
according to society
you know you're not supposed to,
you're not supposed to fornicate.
But people do,
because it's a natural
they wanna have sex,
some you know,
some accidents happen,
and they have a baby.
But then they make abortion illegal.
And you're not,
and if you're pregnant
out of wedlock,
then you're look down on in society.
So, what are you supposed to do
really in that case?
(Vivian: Exactly)

Bow:
They set up things here,
in these Confucian societies,
(Vivian: Sure)
you have no choices really.

Daisy:
But,
I do think it's
become a little too common
as Luke was saying before,
there are some women out there that
are using this as a form
of contraception,
which is just
amoral
you know,
it's not acceptable.
And I think that
we need to kind of
get back to
educating people that
this is not ok and it's, not..
, apparently
I was told by a doctor
that it's not good
for a woman.
The more a woman
has an abortion,
the less chance
she has of falling pregnant again.

Vivian:
Right,
and having a healthy baby too,
and it causes pro,
problems for herself, too.

Daisy:
Yeah.
So I think
if we're gonna clamp down
as a society
on abortion.
Not saying it's
wrong
that women still have these choices,
but offer other al...
(Vivian: Alternatives)
alternatives
and opportunities for them.
OK. Say to the career woman.
Alright.
If you have this child
these are the benefits
that we can give you,
this is the help
we can give you and
finding the child a good home.
Um,
You know with adoption
and things like that.
Think about
if the government wants to,
you know,
move away from so many people
having abortion,
then offer other alternatives
and options.

Vivian:
The, the
options certainly
do have to be there,
but also there is the moral
aspect you know,
which if you're doing it
for contraceptive reasons
or because it was an accident
and you really weren't careful
or because you could have it,
but you couldn't. Anyways
but we have to make
that moral issue
much more
of a stronger point in society now
and also,
I mean,
if you're doing it just you could have the baby
but I just don't want to
and this was just an accident.
That should be like a public thing.
People would..,
it should be like a standard thing
that we think
that is not right,
you know,
I mean
you should only do this,
in the case of,
this is my personal opinion,
but if you were raped or,
in extreme circumstances,
if you're very young,
and it really was an accident,
and you have no other options
left to you,
I mean,
then I think that
should be an option for you.

Bow:
Um,
this is kind of getting
back to
what we were talking about,
or I was talking about
before with the titles of pro-choice
or pro-life.
But, um,
have you seen the movie?
What is it?
If Walls Could Speak,
it is all about abortion?
(Vivian: Yes, If walls could talk)
well, if walls could talk,
yes. And in Boston
, there's a lot of um,
abortion clinics,
and there's a lot of pro-lifers
who stand outside.
There was a guy that
close to my house,
an abortion clinic that
was close to my house
and a guy went in there
and killed one of the doctors.
He's under the title pro-life
which is kind of a contradiction because
he's taking a life
(Daisy: Exactly)
He trying to say,
but his excuse is that I'm trying to save
many lives by taking one,
But
how does that work?
you know,
I don't understand that.

Vivian:
It's like a vigilante kind of
instance,
and he is kind of
contradicting himself
but he's saying
I'll save
a majority versus one.
(Daisy: Right, so many babies)

Bow:
I know
what he's saying
but, I mean,
those women are gonna,
have gone through the decision.
The hard task
of making a decision to go there,
are not gonna stop there.

Daisy:
Right.
What is fascinating to me is,
that here,
there is so much talk.
People's protesting outside abortion clinics today.
But abortion has been around for centuries,
and it wasn't performed by a doctor,
it was,
basically,
you know,
you know,
you go to your local herb doctor
or witch doctor,
and you can,
an abortion can be performed
with simple herbs like ginger
and parsley.
And this has been going on
for centuries.
The African,
a lot of tribes in Africa,
they believe,
that it is solely
up to the woman
as the giver of life
and she is
the representation of god
and if she falls pregnant
then it is her decision
whether she brings
that life forth.
They believe
that if that life
is not wanted then
why should it be brought
into the world,
it should brought into the world
when it's loved.
And they've been using these herbs for,
for uh,
centuries,
to perform abortions,
so it's not a modern day issue.
It's not something,
you know,
in other cultures
it is accepted
within their religions.
So you know,
I, I've,
I kind of don't understand
why people are,
maybe because
it's just public now.
I don't get it.


sunyuting1 2008-06-06 12:03
分拆语音

4. Abortion and Sexual Education  B1 的43分38.36秒到58分43秒结束的语音文本


Bow:
That makes it a very easy decision
for the man
who had impregnated the woman
(Daisy: Right)
in that culture.
(Daisy: Right)
If it's up to her.
OK. You do it,
he doesn't have to pay
for anything
and he doesn't
have to have the guilt.

Daisy:
He doesn't have to go out
and hunt goats or something.

Vivian:
OK, so I think
the moral issue should be,
really emphasized.
I mean
first of all,
men should take responsibility,
it's not a hit and go
kind of thing,
you know,
you should stick around even
if you weren't involved,
until the process is over,
and through with
whether it's
carrying it out
to the end,
or watching it through
until she has the baby.
And I should al...
always emphasize
adoption being,
you know,
an option.
(Daisy: An option.)
You know,
if all else fails,
hey,
you know,
I honestly think
if that would happen to me,
adoption,
you know,
I couldn't find
other options for myself,
I would always consider adoption
the last resort,
you know.

Vivian:
Abortion,
the last resort?

Daisy:
No. Adoption.
I mean that
should be something that's there.
You know,
if I can't keep this baby
or if we can't raise it together
or something.
My parents couldn't raise it.
That should always be.

Luke:
I do agree that,
that bringing a child to term
and seeking out that route,
is the noble thing to do,
(Vivian: Sure)
but I just don't think
everybody is up to it.
And if they're not up to it,
I mean,
(Vivian: Exactly)
If they are like way to stressed and.
way to freaked out
and they're going through this turmoil.
I think
a lot of the formative stuff
that goes into baby's character,
probably happens
in the womb
before it's even popped up.

Vivian:
You know they're always
talking about people
who are raped or in,
you know,
abused situations where it was a very tra...
(Luke: traumatic)
traumatic event. Event?
Ok.
Incident,
and so maybe they don't even
want this at all.

Bow:
Not always though,
a friend of my grandmother's,
I remember this story,
when I was young,
she, uh,
I met her.
She had a really great personality,
I always thought of her as a funny lady.
She was travelling
in the Philippines,
and was raped at,
at night,
she had no idea who was
and she had the baby,
and I remember the kid.
And the kid was just like her,
she raised the kid.
And the kid was very happy.
I believed it at that time,
so it just depends on
you know,
who raises the kid.
I suppose
(Daisy: No, Yeah) ...

Vivian:
We're talking about the person themselves
not the baby too
, I mean,
it does depend on the person.
You know,
you could be a very young girl,
and have been raped,
I mean,
this may be traumatic for you.
Not only that but there are also
health reasons,
why
like young children,
if your body is not fully developed,
you cannot carry a baby to term.
It's dangerous
to your body.
And so a lot of doctors
make that argument that,
you know,
if your body
has not come to age yet,
or it's not fully developed you're not
up to bearing a baby yet.

Daisy:
Well, not just that,
I mean,
you know,
I mean,
you've got a 17-year-old kid
who's promiscuous
and is pregnant,
and you're going to leave it up to
her to take care of her body
for nine months?
She could be drinking,
(Vivian: Sure)
she could be having more,
you know,
sex.
She could be having,
taking drugs she you never know.
But the point that
Bow made about his,
the story about his grandmother
I mean,
in an ideal society.
(Bow: Grandmother's friend.)
Ah! Sorry.
In an ideal society,
we'd all be doing that,
but it's not an ideal society.
And it's up to us
to provide other options
or I think the only way
we're gonna solve this problem
is by educating our children.
(Luke: Yeah)
Letting them know that
of course yes,
abortion exists.
Because if we,
if we make it illegal again
we're gonna have women
hurting themselves.
And there's gonna be butchers,
you know in,
uh, in abortion clinics.
You know,
just cutting these women
up and it
is just gonna go back.
It'll be chaos.
(Bow: Knowledge is power)
So. It is. So,
let's treat our kid
let's teach our kids,
um,
so that this doesn't happen
so we're not having them pregnant,
they are not getting the diseases,
and this doesn't become,
even become an issue.

Luke:
They have to have all of the options
available to them.
but it has to start at the very foundations
of the education system again.
(Daisy: Yes, yes.)
It's like,
and you have to,
people have to impress of course. I
think it’s uh,
it's human nature you
want to see if it's,
something like that happens,
you wanna see it
come to term,
you wanna see
a new life brought into the world.
That's the human,
that's the basic
fundamental human impulse.
It's like procreate.
That's the most beautiful thing.
It doesn't work for everybody.
It doesn't,
it doesn't end happily
in every situation.
So for that reason
I think it has to be an option.
But ultimately
I disagree with,
with doing it. It's an,
it's an,
(Daisy: Abortion)
it's a shitty thing
that you have to go through.
I'm sure.
I'll never experience it,
but women I know
who've done it,
it's been like,
you know,
the hardest dec..,
the hardest decision
they've ever had to make
to go actually through with it.

Daisy:
But then,
the problem is that today,
you know,
actually I have a friend in Australia
and she's had five abortions
and she's 28.
(Luke: Yeah)
and she is using it
as a form of contraception.
And she said I just had my fifth abortion
when I last went home,
and I said to her
"Do you know like know about the pill,"
or you know other forms of contraception.
And she said,
yeah but if I,
if I take the pill,
you know, I
'm gonna gain weight,
and this is just like,
she's, just become such a superficial person
where she can check herself
in her lunch break,
break into an abortion clinic,
have an abortion,
come out and go back to work
and has no emotional attachment whatsoever.

Vivian:
See?
In that situation,
it is extreme.
(Vivian: Extreme and
it's unexceptable,
it's amoral, you know)
Well, obviously,
we have a group of people here, t
hat.., you know
we don't have any extreme people,
you know,
we're not extremely pro-choice
or pro-life.
But how about we attack this question?
We obviously are kind of pro-life
but also pro-choice,
for the extreme pro-choice people
of course they wanna say,
hey,
from day one,
from day one
the child is alive
and you can't kill it
after that day.
Right?
(Daisy: Pro-life people)
Right.
So I mean
where exactly in your opinion is,
does life begin?
Because
in America
I think for most states,
you know,
abortion is legal or
not, uh,
or illegal in states depending on,
it's their decision.
But, um,
usually I think
it's two months
is the...
(Daisy: You can have an,
you can have an abortion
up to your first trimester)
Right.
Somewhere around there.
So in your personal opinions
how far can you take it
or you shouldn't take it at all?

Bow:
I already answered that earlier
I said that I believe it's
right from the beginning even
before the egg and the sperm meet.
It's life in, everything.
(Vivian: Do you think?)
Yeah, I believe that.
(Vivian: You too,
Luke? How about you Daisy?)

Daisy:
Yeah, well,
you know,
I believe that
I said that,
you know,
shortly after conception
I believe it's becoming a child,
a baby,
a human.
But I don't believe
that it's a life
until it's connected
with the mother
and mother has connected
with it.
And I believe that
when the woman
makes that decision
that I'm going to have this child
and I'm going to love this child
or
I'm going to carry this child,
so it'll be loved
by someone else
then it's a life
and then it's a life
that it's important.
It's important.

Luke:
It's becomes,
I just think it's a life
from the beginning
but as it becomes more complex,
it's a trickier decision.
It's sorta like
how you feel bad about like, uh,
killing a bird,
but you don't feel bad about
squashing a bug.
It's all life,
you don't feel bad about
plucking a dandelion.
It's just higher things
that we see as being more
close to us
are harder for us to
try to snuff out.
And as a child
develops a
nd grows
and becomes more like us
with our own
like genetic material.
I think that's
when it really starts to
become uh,
like you.

Vivian:
The reason why
I ask this question is because,
sure when we look at it that way it's,
it's an, a simple answer,
hey, you know,
it's, it's life from the beginning
or what not.
But what if we made that situation more complicated,
what if it was your daughter, Bow,
and she was raped
by some stranger on the street and,
listen, listen,
and she is only a teenager, s
he's young,
she was raped,
she doesn't know
who the hell this person was,
you know,
and what if she is put in that situation,
what if she didn't know
she was pregnant, hey?
Oh! And wait,
what if she's
a lot of people,
no,
a lot of people don't show
until what they're third
or fourth months.
Am I right, Daisy?
I mean,
what if she found out
after the first trimester,
after a certain point
where a lot of people
don't agree,
hey,
after this point you shouldn't have it.
But what if the situation is totally 
she's too young,
she's, you know,
emotionally upset,
and she cannot accept this.
What if she made the choice that
she doesn't want it.
How would you feel about that?

Bow:
Now?
(Vivian: Yeah)
Well,
that's the thing
I'm the Dad of this person.
You're a woman.
What if it was you?
What would you do?
I don't,
I don't know what I will do.

Vivian:
Yeah, OK.
What if it was your partner,
and what if it is your female counterpart.
Then it's your choice together,
right?

Bow:
Yeah,
I don't know
what I would do.
What would you do?
If it was you?

Vivian:
But see that's
what I'm asking.
When you simply say,
when is,
when does life begin,
and how far can you take it,
you guys earlier said
from day one.
But then
when you complicate
the situation
you really can't give an answer.

Daisy:
Well, you can.
Because
the law says
after your first trimester you cannot legally
have an abortion,
and I,
I would be pretty..,
uh...

Vivian:
But not in all
countries.

Daisy:
Well,
almost all of them.

Vivian:
But.
Let's say that
wasn't true,
that's,
what it is the whole.

Daisy:
Say that wasn't true?

Vivian:
No, no, no.
I'm saying the whole issue,
is they're still arguing
where does life begin,
where does it end,
whether to make this legal
or not.
I mean
that's what I'm asking.
If the situation was complicated
like that
I mean,
it was your own daughter,
or your own mate,
I mean,
could you say?

Luke:
Once they hit elementary school,
it's too late to abort.

Vivian:
Yeah,
I think so too.

Daisy:
Yeah,
definitely.
I don't know,
I mean that's a tough,
you know,
I mean,
that's basically
the scientific evidence
that most pro-lifers
are arguing with
with pro-choicers.
And you know,
I just,
the scientific information,
for me it's more of uh,
a spiritual thing.
I think that it is wrong
to just use
abortion as contraception
which we've all said.
But I do believe
that it is a connection
that,
that connection makes life,
our connection
with each other,
our relationships
with each other,
and my future relationship
with my child
when I have a child
I know I'm pregnant
and when I accept that
and I'm already loving
that child and
bringing it into life,
that's when the connection
for me would be.
And I think most women
feel that way.

Luke:
And I think it's easy to talk about,
talk about,
you know,
when you're in a vacuum
and saying,
this is the right thing,
and I'm morally like this,
and I believe in this thing.
But, uh, yeah,
unless you have experienced all
the emotions that come with it.
And the actual going through with it.
Who knows what you're gonna do?
(Daisy: Exactly)
I mean,
you don't know
what you think.
It's easy to like take this hypothetical situation,
(Daisy: Sure)
and say, well you know,
after thinking through it and stuff,
and go through all this pedantic
sort of B.S.
But I mean yeah,
doing it is,
actually
where you're gonna find your answer
and being put in that situation
you can't rationalize that.

Bow:
Well, that's why it is,
what it is today.
Everything's messed up,
because
everybody,
not everybody
has gone through it.
So we have these opinions
which we think
this could be a basic foundation
but people will still
from now until the end of time
they will still
um,
keep talking about this,
(Daisy: Sure)
and keep going through the same situations
over and over again.
You just keep your opinions,
you know,
like what you think
and you try to do
but you hope of course a situation
like that would not happen.
But if it does arise
then you try to deal with it
as it comes.

Daisy:
Sure, that's fine.
These people
in the government
(Luke: Speaking on your behalf of course)
are going to make decisions about
my future
and my body,
and I wanna have a say
in that.
I'm not impressed
when conservative
Rush Limbaugh
or whoever else it happens to be
in government at the time.
Would stand up there
and tell me w
hat rights
I have as a woman,
and what I can do
with my body,
I'm offended.

Bow:
But there are also republican
or conservative women
in congress
who're voting for these laws too.

Daisy:
Yes, there are.
But they have a right to talk about that.
Because they are women,
I accept that.
But I don't, I,
I, draw the line
when I've got a bunch full of
white male conservatives
discussing my future
and other women's future.

Vivian:
Right.
I agree with that,
but I do
believe,
I'm sorry
to go against all the females out there.
But I do believe
they do have a word in there,
because,
um,
a very small word.
I'm not saying a big word.

Luke:
I think for a woman
in a situation
where it wasn't uh,
a mutually mutual relationship
this has happened,
an experience to people
I know.
Um,
not,
not a close situation,
all of a sudden a pregnancy
came up
unexpectedly t
he man was,
I want no part of this,
and the woman was like
and don't sweat it,
I don't want to make you a part of it.
That's fine.
If you're,
if you're interested
in pursuing it further
than go ahead but,
I'm choosing to go...
go ahead
with this anyway.
And I think the guy
eventually sort of just came around
to the idea.
He wanted to be a part of it...
like she was gonna go through with it anyways.
She was like I'll find a way,
I\m really gonna do this,
I'm gonna go ahead
and I'm gonna do it.
And then she came,
and then the guy
was just sort of like uh,
she's doing it without me.
That's half my kid, man.

Bow:
Actually,
you know,
I think that happens
in a lot of cases,
um,
one partner
makes the decision
and it's like
somebody is waiting
for the other one
to say, yes,
we can do this.
And then once you get that consensus,
then
you go ahead
and then you find out
what child rearing is,
child bearing
and child rearing
and it turns out
to be a very rewarding experience.
Exactly.
Thank you.

Luke:
A rewarding experience.

Vivian:
I just wanna touch on
what that just reminded me of...
was. What if the woman
were to go ahead
and consent to this and say that
she wanted the baby
and there was the male
who didn't want anything to do with it.
Doesn't he have something to say,
when he says
I don't want my child being born.
What about that
aspect of this story, no?

Bow,
Daisy: No.

Vivian:
No?

Luke:
I don't think so,
I don't think
I'd feel in a place that I've ever
tell a woman,
you have to take that child's life,
if she felt,
she felt,
if she felt that she was good enough to do it
and she was up for the job,
no one else would be more
qualified than her.

Vivian:
OK. Let's wrap up with
maybe a comment from each of us.
How do you feel
over all and
maybe then,
some thoughts?

Bow:
Um,
I think
Daisy brought up a really
pertinent point
which was,
which can kind of almost sum up everything
which is that education
is the key point. (
Vivian: Definitely)
And, uh,
educate people,
and let them know
what's going on
as much as you can,
put more money into
the schools
for that purpose and uh...

Vivian:
And the parents
should get involved, too.
It's not just schools,
(Luke: Talk to your kids, to your kids)
don't make it just the schools'
or governments' responsibility.

Daisy:
Hopefully,
you know,
if we are able to do that,
if we are talking to
our children,
and we are teaching them in schools,
getting them as much
information as possible,
and trusting their judgment,
maybe
they won't even
get to the situation
where they'll have to think about
abortion.
But,
you know,
we've got to do something.

Vivian:
And sadly enough
if you were put in that situation,
this is my personal opinion,
but I think
each situation
is different regardless
if it's pregnancy,
or violence,
or what not.
You have to kind of take it
for each circumstance
(Daisy: Right)
on its own.
We can't just judge everything.

Daisy: There is no black and white.
级别: 管理员
只看该作者 129 发表于: 2009-02-10
sunyuting1 2008-06-10 20:50
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1. Abortion and Sexual Education的前15分钟4秒语音对应的文本


SIDE A


Ok, today we're ...talking about ...a real sensitive issue.
...It's abortion ...and of course ...sexual education,
...it all kinds of, ...you know, ...combines... into each other.

Vivian:

...This is Viv.

Daisy

: ..Yeap! ....This is Daisy. ...Yes, ....a very heated topic. ...
....I don't know.... what do you think. ...Bow.

Bow:.

This is Bow! ....It's short ....for Bow Seaffas.... Anyway,...
...... I think this is.... a hot topic all over the world.
So let's.... dig our heels... in and get going.


Luke: ..

Yeah, ....the life-giving force.... that we all.... have inside of us,
....that procreative impulse,.....
that just seems ....to keep on going like.... a spark
....that can never be snuffed out.
Let's rap gang.

Vivian:

Hello everyone.... welcome ...and uh.... let's.... introduce ourselves.

Luke:

How are you doing? This is Luke!

Bow:

And I am ...Bow!

Daisy:

And I am ...Daisy!

Vivian:

And this is... Viv!

Vivian:

Today's topic is ....sexual education.
... Let's start off... by saying, ...hey,
...where did you guys... start off?... I mean, ...how'd you

get... your sexual education?

Daisy:


Well, urn, well,... actually ....I was kind of brought up.... in a very strict Catholic family
.... and my mother.... was very reluctant to.... tell me about... anything.
....Actually,... my funny story, ...
my sister asked me... to go to.... the store ...and buy her some tampons.
.... And I had ...never heard... this word before,
....didn't even know ...what they were.
....So I went to.... the shop ...and I asked the guy... for some tampons,
....and he gave them... to me.
... Looking ...at these tiny little, ...cotton things ...and thinking, ...
...what the hell are these? ...I had no idea.
... So I gave them... to my sister ...and asked her... what they were.
...And she said, ..."Ask mom." ...And then I, urn, ...
...asked my mother ...and she wouldn't tell me... for like two months.
.... I kept hounding her, ...so she gave me... this book... that was like ...published... in the sixties.
... And it still have.... pictures of women.... that use to... wear those sanitary belts
.... that they attached sanitary napkins, too.
... And I couldn't understand ...any of the words,
... I didn't even know... what a penis... or a vagina was.

Vivian:

Oh! Daisy. ...This is ...brutal!

Daisy:

And I was... pronouncing the word,... as "Penis,"... and "Vagina." ..
...And my cousin came to... visit me,.... he was like... talking about ...sex.
...And I said ..."I know what sex is." ....And he said, ...."No, you don't. What is it?"
...And I said, ..."well, it's... when a man puts... his penis... in the women's vagina."

Vivian:

Can I ask ...how old you were... when you in first like.

Daisy:

When... I got this? I was... probably 10 ....or 11 I guess.
(Vivian: Really?)

Vivian:

What about ....school education?

Bow:

Urn. There was ...an attempt.... at educating students ....when I was,
I guess, ...in grade four... or five.
I must have ...been just pre-pubescent... at that time.
(Vivian: Right)
12, Thereabouts, ....11 or 12. ..
They would ...take all the boys ...and shuttle them.... into another room ...
...and they would leave ...all the other girls ...in the classroom ...that they were in.
... And then.... the gym instructor.... would take us all ....and explain basic things... very nervously
..... He was a gym instructor..... He was about ...physical education.
...He was, ....part of his job description.... was not teaching ...a bunch of horny pre-pubescent boys ....about sex.
But, um, ...because the curriculum had changed, ....he sort of got stuck... with the job.
...And I mean it's,.... it's kind of stupid. ....I mean... it should, ...it has to be done...
.... But the thing is... by that time, ....a lot of kids really do know quite a bit about sex. Just because they have older brothers or sisters who sort of fill them ...in or stuff, um,
.....or their friends do.... and they've learned stuff.... from their friends... in a lot of cases
..... So I kind of knew... a lot of stuff,.... but it still was... good to have that.
.... I think.... because it sort of, am, ....solidified a lot of things, ...
just so ....that you wouldn't be.... embarrassed... if it ever came up like,
....I know.... there's a lot of tension... for me,
....because there were ....a lot of spaces missing... in the ....whole sex thing ....that I wanted to... get like,
....you know,... get smart with... eventually... before I actually was... gonna be ...with a girl.
... I didn't wanna like... just get there ....and be like ..."doh",
... I've never learned... that part, ...you know..... So it is not necessary.
(Daisy: They told you that?)
No, I need not to.... study the general things,.... you don't wanna... go into it,
... you know,.... your big romantic first encounter.... and end up looking like ...a spasm,
just because you,.... you didn't want, ....you know,.... ask your buddy. ...
....What's that for? ....How do you use that or whatever.

Vivian:

....What about the parental aspects?.... I mean, ....did your parents ever like come in... and ask you or tell you anything?

Luke:

... My father would sometimes come up to me,
and ask me.... if there was anything ....that I wanted to know,
.... that I was curious about..... Is there any,....
.... you know, ...sort of things.... that you're, ....you know,... you'll probably, ....
....you know, ....starting to become.... a man now?
...... Is there anything ...that you're curious about?.... Wanna know about? ....
.....Of course for me, ....I was just ' No, ....that's all right. ....
....Dad, I'm fine. ....And he said like,.... All Right. Great,... see what's on TV.
...That was good enough for us.

Vivian:

And then week, he'd come back.

Luke:

Just make,... just let you know, ....you know,....
I'm here,..... if you do wanna talk about ...this stuff,
.... if you don't,.... that's probably,.... you know,.... just as good if not better
. (Daisy: That's great.)

Bow:

He was available... for that.

Vivian:

How about you Bow?

Bow:


Um, my sexual education ....was a little bit warped.
.... I think it, ...kind of all most make me uh,
.... deviant almost.... because of it. .....Because it was kind of in uh,.... little, ...clips of things.
...So like I guess, ...Luke was saying it was for..,.... fourth grade or fifth grade.
...You start to think about it... when it happens and... There are some,
you know, ...promiscuous people ...in that grade too.
....Sure they are. ....There was, ....
....this couple they were... supposedly going out ....and there's rumor... that they had,
....had sex. .....So then, ....everyone ....in that grade was.... like really interested.... in what happened,
....what happened. ....And they said,.... well they did it. ....And then they both got sick. ...
....So, we thought that, ...that's like ...what happen... after you do it,
....you know,.... too early ....or something you g....et sick.
....But then like.... the second part of it ....was after that,
.....I actually, ....caught my parents doing it.
.... It just like.... walked.... into the room.... and I thought like my dad ....was hurting my mother.
.... So I said.... "Dad, you're hurting mom.".....
.... And he said, ....."No, just go back to bed.... We're OK!"
.....And then ....where it gets worse is.... because.... I went to... a Catholic school.
....They kind of masked ....sex education as... health,
.... in health class. ....You take health.
....But you're taught ....sex education.... by a really big ....and fat ninety-year-old nun ...
....who says.... if anybody laughs, ....I'm gonna whack you ....on the back of your head.
....People laughed.... and I laughed.... and then ....she said like...
. this is the penis ...and this is the vagina... Boom!
....you got whacked ....in the back of your head.
....So now.... I like uh, ....when I have relations.... I feel like...
I'm gonna get whacked.... in the back of my head ...in a minute.

Daisy:

Which you do anyway!

Bow:

Turns me on.

Luke:

It still true ...that ...I feel ....if you laugh during any sort... of sexual stuff,
.... you usually get ...a slap ...in a face.

Vivian:

Are we talking.... from experience here,.... right?

Luke:

Oh, yes, sure.... I haven't had sex,.. yet.

Bow:

Oh yeah sure.... So,... but I'm think uh,... nowadays,...
.... like I sound like ....a real dad like:.... "When... I was back in school,"
.... but, it's true like.... I think ....people are... more aware of it,
.....at least in North America, ....and they're making it ....a priority their kins take this sexed.
.....As a whole class not as ....under the guise of ....health class.

Vivian:

Right..... I think ...in the past ten, ....maybe 15 years,
.... especially ....in the American school system.... with the addition of... sex education.
... It may not necessarily ....be a class you can..... select it as an elective
.... when you ...enter high school.
.... But usually you.... get this class ....during the end of your elementary
.... or beginning of.... your junior high years,
.....you get a couple of classes ....with the health teacher ....or the nurse.
....And they teach you, .....you know,.... all the basic functions of.... the body including,
.... you know,.... all the sexual parts,....
.... and that ....has changed the educational system ...a lot.
.... As matter of fact, ....there's lots of parents.... who are totally against having sexed ...in school.
.... They don't like.... the fact of the school teaching it....
.... and so usually you ....get parental permission.... before your child ....can enter that class.

Daisy:

Well, when I'm,.... I was in elementary school,
...um, ...I went to ...a Catholic school.
.....And they didn't teach it .....in the school..... but ....what they did to... satisfy the parents
.... who wanted the education ....was have all the kids.... go to the local church.... after school.
.....And sit down ....while the priest ....and the nun.... gave us sex education.... Which is ironic.

Vivian:

That sounds similar.... to Bow's ...situation.

Luke:

That's why that, ....you know.
....Catholic school girls ....have such ....a bad reputation ....
....cause they do.... just the opposite of.... what they are not supposed to do.

Vivian: Exactly.

Daisy: But, ...um, basically, ....just the biological functions ....they taught us,
....you know, ....woman menstruate.
....And this is.... what happens ....and then... when ....I went to... high school
....I had a class like ...that it was called health.
....They were very liberal.... they taught us about ....contraception,.... sexual diseases,
......everything from drugs,.... tobacco, ....alcohol, ....
.....all those things.... that you know.... I guess ....kids are tempted ...by.
.... And I thought.... it was good. ....Actually, ....
....I found the class.... very interesting .....because ....I never had.... that education ....in elementary school,
.....and I know ....more ....I think about ....those things like ....sexual diseases
....than any of my friends do..... because ....I remember that.
....I think it's ....really important ....to teach kids that,.... and give them ....that sexual education.

Bow:

The thing that's um,.... strange.... are the statistics.... like today,
.... because .....you know, .....say from the forties.... for example.... to the sixties,
....or late fifties ....even though... sex education.... it was kind of weird .....talk about it
....and it was ....really scientific ....and stuff,
.....but there was .....less teenage pregnancy then,
....than there is now ....when they're really adamant about ....teaching these things ....in school.
....So like ...is it just ....that the kids are.... not listening ....
....or do they think.... they no more ....than more people?.... I don't know.

Luke:

I think it's that,.... I think.... the reason.... that parents ...are against it...
.... is because they think ....that their children ....are becoming educated about...
.... the wrong things ....at too early an age,
.... but the truth is.... that kids are... growing up they're,
.... they're maturing... a lot faster.
(Daisy: Right..... Much more promiscuous.... than they used to be.)
..... Not necessarily.... pre-mascuous,....... but I mean..... that they come of,
.....they sort of come.... of age.... a little ....earlier and they, urn,....
.... they go through these changes ....a little earlier.... and the thing ....is they are... going to get,
..... they are gonna.... get educated,.... they are gonna learn... about sex,
....they're gonna be ....curious about it, ....from a young age.
.....It's probably better.... that like they learn about it.... on TVs... and movies... and music,
....and on the Internet.
....But they don't have ....that sort of, urn, .....educational aspect,...
..... and sort of like ....what you should do, ....maybe and.... what you shouldn't do.
.....That's.... why sex education... it's not like... they're gonna,
.....just go through life, ....not even hearing ....about sex,
.....not wondering about it .....or curious about it, .....if they don't get.... sex education.
.....But the sex education ....is good ...in that,
...... it sort of says.... now just be smarter about it, ....you know,....
....like put this on... or use this or.... like maybe,..... maybe it's better to wait.
..... You got to think ....of your options .....and if they won't get.... that out of a school setting,
...... they just get ...sex is dirty,..... it's kinda interesting.
......They're just curious about it..... and they ....want to.... learn about it.

Vivian:

For me, .....you know, .....my parents never ....sat me down,
.....even to these day, ....we've never talked about.... that topic.
.... I mean, ....we never had ....that birds.... and the bees little talk.... that everyone get.
..... So my first contact ....with that kind of information ....was in elementary school,
..... just like Luke said, ....we had the little class..... where the school nurse actually ...took you aside,
....and separated you.... and told you about ...the anatomy.
.... Perhaps.... the girls could, ....you know, ....
run into... their menstrual ...cycle any time soon now.
....You should go.... talk to parents
..... And they gave us this little sample of the sanitary napkins
.... So.... when I first ran into... my little accident,
....you know...., I had that.... little sample.... that the teacher gave me ..
....and so '...Thank God!' ....You know, ....cause my mom and.... I never talked about that
...... And then my second encounter .....with that sort of information ...was in junior high,
.... when we had the health class ....that Daisy was talking about.
.....We had the health class..... where we talked about ....all sorts of things starting ....with drugs ......and going down to,
...... you know, ...the aca-, uh, ....anatomy ....and sex ....and what not,
.... and I think .....when you're younger, ....because children talk, uh,...
.... she went out ...with so and.... so and they did this and that,
.....of course, ....you know, ...the movies ....and videos all sorts of information.... that you get on TV.
.... There's a lot of things..... that aren't factual....
..... but you know ....lots of rumor things..... that you think.... may be true
..... and sexual education kind of reinforces..... what you know,
.....and what may not be factual ....and a lot of myths..... get cleared out of ...the way,
.....you know, ....about STDs, ...and AIDS ...and drugs ...and getting this disease ...and that of course pregnancy ....and what not.

Bow:

Urn, yeah, ...O.K. ....But, ...I think, uh, ....
....one of the things.... that you're saying is ....that you're unfortunate to..... not have the talk ....with your parents,
..... like everybody does,.... I don't think.... many people... do get that talk actually.
..... I think it's very rare ....that people do.... and I think like.... the movie ..."American Pie,"
.... that's why ....it was ....so funny ....with the father.....
..... "Eugene Levvy" like..... "Son here's.... a couple of magazines.... for you."
.... Everybody could ....relate to that, .....because.... that's ...what parents do.
..............I think.... it's just kind of weird ....to talk to your kids about.... and they try to do it,
.....cause they think.... it's their duty, ....but it doesn't ....really help. ....I don't think so.

Daisy:

I think ....it's just probably;..... it's a really awkward thing.
.....Because.... you know.... a mother-daughter.... or.... father-son relationship is,
.... you know,.... extremely sensitive ......where .....that area is concerned.
..... A mother doesn't.... or father doesn't..... want his daughter to be,
...... you know,..... even having sexual feelings.
...... So I think..... it's very difficult.... for them, .....but that's.... why I think, urn,
......because they're families ....like that,
......that do have ....difficulties discussing those things,
..... that it is ....absolutely, .....urn, ....of the utmost importance,
..... that education be..... in schools, ....compulsory.
....The government should make..... that the law....
.......whether parents don't ...like it.... or not especially ....in this day and age.
....I don't care ....what country you're in,.... even ...if you're in Korea,
....and they say.... there's no AIDS ....which is just, j
.....ust misinformation,..... you know, ....there are, .....other sexual diseases out there,
..... that can stay ....with you for life,.... and you know,
..... that might not be.... life threatening ....but they are.... not certainly not comfortable,
..... and you know,.... there's AIDS,... there's...
.....Oh,... there're so... many different things.
... (Vivian: STDs, sure)
..... You know,.... other than ....pregnancy ...to worry about
.....(Luke: Psychological things)
....Sure.


sunyuting1 2008-06-11 00:08
分拆语音

2. Abortion and Sexual Education  A2 的15分到29分6秒语音对应的文本



Vivian:

I definitely agree。。。 with Daisy, 。。。there.
。。。。 That's definitely true。。。
。。。and then 。。。also it doesn't just rely 。。。on the government 。。or the schools.
。。。People always say, 。。。hey,。。。 it starts 。。。with the home 。。。and it really does,
。。。and for example, 。。I mean,。。。 if you 。。。were to。。。 put yourself 。。。in those same shoes,
。。。if I had a daughter 。。。or a son。。。, I mean,。。。
。。。 I eventually know。。。 I have to。。。 talk to them,
。。。 sure, 。。。this is the position。。。 that many parents 。。。are put in is.
。。。 I need。。。 eventually talk to。。。 my child about。。。 something like。。 this
。。。but "Are they there yet", 。。。so it's kind of like,。。。 kind of,。。。
。。。 you know,。。。 test you out, 。。。maybe test out the waters。。。 by coming out 。。。and saying...
"So, 。。。is there any thing 。。。you wanna talk about?"
。。。 kind of like。。。 in Luke's situation.
。。。But then of course the kids。。。 in the same situation 。。。were there,
。。。 it's an awkward topic。。。 for them, too.
。。。 And so they're not 。。。gonna say,
。。。yeah.。。。 Dad actually 。。。I wanna know 。。。about this.
。。。 So they just 。。。keep avoiding the topic.
。。。So you 。。。never end up talking about it 。。。。even though your child maybe 。。。16, 18, 20.
。。。You never。。 want to 。。。admit to。。。 yourself.
。。。Oh, 。。。my child is。。。 sexually active 。。。or is going to be,
。。。and 。。。so you 。。。never wanna really go in。。。 and you know. 。。。Yes, Bow.

Bow:

Um, yeah, 。。。that’s exactly right.
。。。That's how。。。 I felt 。。。when I first 。。。had my daughter,
。。。 and I thought 。。"oh" I'm just gonna be 。。a strict dad 。。。and she's never。。。 gonna have sex,
。。。 she's not gonna be。。 with boys。。。 and all this stuffs.
。。。 And then I met, uh, 。。。another father, 。。。who has a similar situation.
We called him 。。。a Cooter.。。。 Cooter's opinion 。。。was that,
。。。that's so stupid.。。。 I mean。。。 she's just 。。。gonna rebel against you even more,
she gonna 。。。become like。。。 a prostitute,
。。 she's gonna do it。。 for money, 。。。you know 。。it's just a natural res..,。。
res.., 。。。natural thing, 。。。you know. 。。That's 。。what people do.

Vivian:

God forbid。。。 your daughter does。。。 that ten years。。。 from now.

Bow:

Yeah, ok. 。。。But um, 。。。anyway... I kind of realized, ....you're exactly right,
....and I can't do that, ...I can't like,... you know... lock her up,
,,, and put a chastity belt on her, ,,,,or get the chastity rings...
,,, I just have to,,,, kind of try to ,,,,raise her,
,,,,, naturally ,,,,in hope like,,,, she'll be smart enough,,,, to make her ,,,,own decisions.
(Daisy: Hope that she has good judgment)

Vivian: ,,,,I definitely think.... that the more informed.... you are, t
.....he smarter you are, ....think about it, ....when you look.... at two 18-year-olds,
..... for example, .....and you have one.... that is very much educated.... and aware of her.... surroundings,
and current events ....and what not. .....One that is not ....so much aware of everything ....and informed.
When you see.... the ignorance.... and the naivete ....of one child versus the other,
.... you know,... that person.... that has more knowledge,
....you know, ...yeah they're,... they know.... what's going on,
.....but then also they're.... gonna be,
.....more aware of the bad things .....and they are gonna be.... smart ....about their choices
....and decisions versus the ones.... that are not so aware
.....and so out of curiosity ....and ignorance ....she's gonna go in there
.....and most likely be in a.... lot more dangerous situations.

Luke:

.....I think all kids respond to, uh,.... to just frankness ....and openness.
..... And it's really hard to do.... with a topic like that,
.....but I find that like.... coddling kids.... and just going like.... goo-goo ga-ga
...and stuff often they're just like,... OK,.... someone's making stupid voices to me.
.... That's not ....how they really talk.... when they're among themselves,
....so I think.... they'd really respond to, ....
.....to a subject like that ....which is very sensitive
.....if you can just show.... them you're comfortable ....talking about it like
.....at an early age.... even if you are not.
....If you can just sort of ...I don't know ....be open about... that stuff,
....be available ....to talk about ...those sort of things.
..... I think ....it wouldn't be such,
....such a hard thing to talk about.... because it really ....is a natural thing,
..... you know ....it's such an obvious thing
..... and it's just all this other sort of social conditions..... that make it sort of dodge ....to talk about, you know.

Vivian:

....And who here at the age ....of 15 or 16,
....didn't think ....that they were mature enough ....
....or adult enough to.... hear something... like this,
....when your parents do.... talk to you like.... that you're ...."Yeah, whatever",
..... and then.... it just makes ....you revolt against ...them more,
..... when they speak to you.... at such a level,
..... you know, ....when they if your parents had actually talking you ...at the age of 15
.....and sat you aside.... and sai. ...."Hey, you're an adult now,
.....you're mature enough to.... listen to this.
....Hey,.... let's just talk to.... each other ...like adults.
....This is how it is, .....and if you're gonna get involved
.... or I would prefer ....that you don't let me know.... this is ....how it goes.
.....If they are very frank.... with you,.... I mean, ....I honestly think that,.... yeah,
..... I would probably respond, ....not only ....with that,
..... you know, ....the whole sexual aspects.... but with many other aspects... as well,
..... at a much more mature level...... And probably ....grown up.... a little bit.

Bow:

....You're saying ....that if your parents were frank ....with you then
(Vivian: Yeah, I'm just)
.....I disagree ...with that.
(Vivian: You do why?)
.....Because ....I think.... the point.... that you made ....that teenagers, urn,
.... do think ....that they are mature..... because of that reason
.... they don't wanna ....listen to anybody.
..... And I think.... you don't realize.... that until you.... become an adult,
.....and I think ...if you're frank ....with them, yeah
....., they could be.... "yeah, whatever...., whatever,.... whatever."

Daisy:
..
.....Yeah,..... but it depends.... on the attitude .....that you have towards them,
.....I mean..... if you're treating your children ....like a baby ....the entire time,
..... I mean that, ....
....(Luke: .....And suddenly come up ....a.nd say,.... OK,
l.....et's talk about ....the birds and bees.)
.Exactly.

Luke:
.
....I mean you.... have to open.... with them even.... from a young age
......like just sort of ....let them know.... like
..... "this is .....what makes girls girls,...... this is makes boys boys,"
.....and like start..... at the really basic stuff.... like that, ....I mean.

Vivian:

....Cause the entire raising the child experience .....is an educational thing....
..... from very the beginning it ....leads gradually,
.....and slowly, .....and eventually.... toward the sex education thing ....as well.

Bow:
.
...OK thanks. ....I'll remember that.

Daisy:

.... Well...., you know,.... I just think ....that we're.... so way beyond.... on this discussion
.... I don't think .....it's even about ....how we approach it... with out kids any more.
.....I think it ....should be ....forced down their throats.
..... I think .....whether the government.... has to do that
....., the school ....has to do that, ....or the parents,
.... it should be made.... some law .....that makes it ....compulsory.
.... Because... I am not,.... I don't.... want my child,
.... if, even if she can't ....talk to me.... even if I have.... a great relationship.... with my child,
..... if he or she ....can't talk to me,
..... I wanna know .....she's getting.... that information.... somewhere else.
(Vivian: Right)
.....Because it's just way.... to dangerous. .....You take Korea,.... for an example,
...... you know, ....here's a country .....that has basically, ....my niece,....
..... I asked.... what she gets.... in school.
..... And they're still .....just giving them..... the biological processes,
.....you menstruate, ...the penis ....is inserted.... into the vagina ...and so on,... and so on, ...so on.
..... And she.... really knows... nothing ....about.... how to protect herself... from pregnancy.
....She doesn't know ....anything about ....sexual diseases.
.....She still thinks, ....and so does.... the rest of Korea,
.....which just .....makes me insanely ....angry,
..... that you can get AIDS ....by drinking out of ....the same cup as someone,
..... you know, ...I mean, ....it's just misinformation,
....and the thing,.... this is a country.... that has nightclubs..... that have professional,
..... you know,.... dm,.... hookers working there
...... And it's not just Korea...... It's the rest of Asia ....as well,...
..... and ....urn,.... it's ok.... to have hookers ....working in nightclubs as,
..... you know, .....girls ....that peel your fruit.... or pour your drink.
..... But it's not ok.... to teach.... the rest of... the country
..... that you need.... to wear a condom..... that you need.... to protect yourself,
.....that there's AIDS,..... there's other sexual diseases ....out there.

Luke:

..... What are the names.... of those night clubs?

Vivian:

..... Anyways, ....I do ...have to agree ....with Daisy ....on one point ...
......is the actual amount of education .....you are getting ....and at what age, too.
.....As I was.... saying before, .....I learned ....about the anatomy.... in elementary school.
.....But then like said ....especially ....when you are ...at that age.... you're very sensitive
.... and you hear ....a lot of information ......and that's not actually factual,
..... a lot of it is, ...just ....a lot of gossip .....that kids... pass around.
....Hey,... if you do this,... you get this. ....This happens... to you ....such and such
..... Literally, ....ninety percent of it ...is all false,
..... I mean, ....its false information ....and you should be ....informed.... with factual information
....whether it’s.... from school, ....or homes ...or whatever.
.....And ....even to ....this day, ....even from adults.... that I speak to, ....my friends.
.....There's ...a lot of people..... that are totally.... misinformed ....about certain things,
.....I mean,.... they may know it ....up to a certain point,
.... but then.... that they don't know.... the, the rest of it. ..
.....You know,.... I mean.... I'm talking about.... 30-year-old adults ....who don't know the
....., the entire picture, ...you know,.... and I mean, ...
......when these children ....are going up to ....junior high ....and they know ....basically the,
.....the little skeleton, ....but they don't know ...the meaty part of it,..
..... and then.... they hear all these rumors..... Even though, ....you think ....you're supposed to know
....you're not so sure,... and ....when you hear these rumors. ....Oh, that ....must be true,
....I mean,.... if they get factual information.... instead of being misinformed ...by their peers,
.... wouldn't ....that change.... a lot of things.

Luke:

.... Sure. ....I was growing up, uh, ...a lot of, ...uh,....
..... people.... that I knew..... who were starting to ....experiment ....with sex
..... under the understanding.... that you couldn't ....get pregnant the first time
...... And you couldn't.... get pregnant.... if you.... did it in a certain position
....., if the girl was... on top ....or something. ....So that ....was sort of a... form of birth control,
....you know. ...I wonder ...how many people ........got themselves .....in a lot of trouble.
.... It's the first time...... Forget about it.

Bow:

.....Girls believe that..... You win there.

Vivian:

..... I have a totally.... prime example;
......this is just ....something.... recent that .....I had recently read.
..... I heard that.... in Korea.... a form of,.... I think,.... I don't know,
..... if it was Korea .....or America.... whatever, .....but maybe.... twenty years ago,
.... a form of.... birth control .....was pulling out..... before the male ejaculated.
(Luke: It helps.)
..... It helps,.... yeah,.... but that is ....not 100 percent. ....That is not
(Daisy: Coitus interrupt us)
.....contraception. .....That is totally not,..... you know....., and I was... trying to ....explain,
.....no actually.... You know, ....it leaks out a little bit, .....and then also ....even,
and that's.... totally not contraception. .....And then.... the second fact ....which wasn't... a fact was,
.... um,.... there were.... many women.... that were confused.... as to
...... when you're menstruating.... if you.... have intercourse,....
...... you couldn't ....get pregnant, ....or when..... you're menstruating .
.....that was the time ...when you do get, ....you know, ...pregnant,... which was true.
......And so.... they were confused ....as to .....which was actually true.
....And so that.... is very dangerous information ....to have,
..... if you are on.... the wrong.... side of.

Daisy:

....Well, ....that's the rhythm method, .....and that's.... what the Catholic .....Church tried to.... get everybody.... to use it
....and that's .....why Catholic parents ....have so many children.
(Luke: ....That's .....why it's the main.... religion.... in Christianity.)

Vivian:

.... If you're ....to go to a doctor, .....ask him.... if this is true ...or not,
..... he probably would laugh.... in your face, ....because,... first of all, ....this is not a way to,
.....you know, .....protect yourself,
and..... perhaps..... if you don't wanna ....conceive children .....
.....that is not the way.... to go about things.
....And second,.... it isn't true,.... you know, ....I mean ....that is totally ....false information.

Luke:

....But it's hard,.... if people don't,.... if kids don't.... have anywhere to go to.... other than friends'
..... who also don't know.... the score, ...
.....and if parents aren't.... really forthcoming ....with.... that kind of information
..... and they don't ...get it ....in the schools,.... like ....where are.... they gonna get it.

Daisy:
..
..... That's why...., you know, ....I urge,.... you know.... parents.... to go and.... join their PTA
..... to write their ....local member..... to get their... governments.... to do something ....to make it ....compulsory.... in schools.

Bow:

..... I think it.... is actually ...in the States
...(Luke: It is.) (Vivian: In America)
.....the problem is, ....with that is,.... even though ....like.... anything else,
.....US history... is compulsory, .....but you gotta,.... a lot of kids.... in the poor neighborhoods ....don't go to school.
(Daisy: Right)
....So they are.... not showing up.... for the class,.... you know.

Daisy:

..... Well that's ....why I think .....that there needs ...to be some type of ....standard in,
....you know,.... in sex education..... in schools, ....and as Bow said,
..... you know,.... of course... there are... the poor kids,
....you know,..... in poor neighborhood.... that aren't getting.... that education.
.....But there are ....you know, ...I, I, the government ....even in the states,
...... is trying to.... do things about.... that ...I mean,
.....they've got welfare offices set up.... and people.... that go out,
...... they talk to women .....who are single mothers having children
..... and give them information..... about, ....you know, ....how to ....protect themselves.... both.... from sexual disease, .....and pregnancy.
..... And I think it.... has to be ......a national effort.... in any country..... that you live in.
..... If you have children .....and you're not involved, .....then you're not.... doing enough.
..... You have to go,..... you have to write..... to your local member.
..... You have to ....go to.... the village meeting,
..... discuss these things .....they're important...... And if you're.... not involved,
.... then.... if your child ....does get ....pregnant ....then you are... responsible ....for that.

Vivian:

.....And I think .....this eventually ....leads to ....another question
..... that is actually..... a very hot issue,
.....especially..... in the western countries.... these days.
..... I mean, ....what if all of this..... sexual education,...
...... it didn't work .....out in the end..... Hey..., what if, ...uh, ..
.it just didn't ....work out the way ....you wanted it for,
your daughter.... or son?
.....What if they did ...get pregnant ....or what if they ....got someone else pregnant,
....they'd been ...a situation.... where what?
....They may be ....students..... and they couldn't..... finish their education .
....or they'd be.... force to.... have home education.
.....There is a lot of situations ....going on out there.
.....And of course even ....as a young adult.... or an elder adult,
.....you may get pregnant..... and that is ....not the situation..... that you had ....planned on.
.... There are.... some options out there.... for you.... and they're.... difficult options,
.....and we can ....discuss some of the options... first,
.....and see ....how we all feel about this,.... um, ....obviously.... the topic is adopt..,
.... um, I'm sorry, ...adoption?.... Ok..... Those are one of ...the choices,
.....yeah,.... that's one of the choices,.... but abortion.
.....It is a really ....hot steamy issue,.... lots of people.... get very urn,
.....sensitive ....about this one, ....
.....so let's start off ....by saying like ....where we kind of stand.....
..... Are you pro? .....Or Are you against abortion? .....Are you for abortion?
.....And second..... let's talk about.... the choices ....that are involved.... with that.
.....You wanna ....start up Bow? ...Are you
...(Bow: Me?)
.... Luke?

Bow: ..

..Um,.... I think that.

Vivian:

.....What side ....are you on first?

Bow:

..... I don't.... choose either side,..... I'm neither.... pro-choice.... nor pro-life.
.....But I do, ....I believe that,.... um, ....there shouldn't be..... an abortion... if people are,
.... can be responsible,.... if they have..... the ability.... to be responsible,
.....but they're.... just choosing... not to be.... because... oh, ....it's gonna be... so hard on me.
.....I don't agree.... with that.
....I agree ....in extreme situations ....where depending on.... how that child... is gonna be raised,
..... if the child.... is gonna... grow up to be,
..... you know,..... raised ....in a terrible environment.... then maybe.... the best choice ...would be to,
.....you know, ....go ahead ....for the abortion.....
..... Um, ....if it had to.... do with ....a mother's health, ....um, ....basically yes.
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