sunyuting1 2008-06-14 15:44
《听说大突破》的教材文本书中有大量错误，与磁带文本的语音差异加大，对于听这种带“口吃”的语音影响较大，在一个分拆的语音中多达几十处，从本册开始进行了修改。
修改的部分用（）内的文字为增加的内容，这样语音与文本就基本一致了，还有一些，基本不影响听清了。
修改文本耽误一些练习时间，旦对于压码听懂，加深记忆也有用的，对语音文本记忆更深了，理解反映速度也会加快。
我突然想到，大家汉语都不口吃，千万别没有学会英语，让大家学会了口吃。估计一般听懂不会影响，但是小孩们出现口吃多数都是因笑话而学别人产生的，磁带语言速度较快，只要大家不要慢速跟读，估计即使快速和长速跟读都不会有问题。
sunyuting1 2008-06-14 16:43
分拆语音
3. 第2册 1..Art and Culture B1的29分03秒到43分45秒语音对应的文本
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SIDE B
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Bow:
Yeah, I just think ...that people today are bombarded.... with information ....and it's just clouding their true goal,.... I mean, ....I think, ....I believe ....basically everybody,.... every human ....or anybody that's able to think,.... is an artist.....
.... In the fact that..... everybody has ideas, ...and I think .....Art was probably created,... I don't,... maybe it shouldn't ...even be called Art, ....but we have to.... label it something,.... but it just to be the idea of getting... that concept or idea... into the three-dimensional world.
... Out of your brain ....into your hands, .....where you can actually see it. ...And it's physical..... And sometimes that, what,... if you do a good job,.... and you choose the right medium, .....then maybe one person ....or many people will be inspired from that, ...get their own ideas... from it and ...then do the same thing.
Daisy:
Right, ...I agree..... And whether that.... medium be anything ....from cooking to... (Luke: ...There's a lot of overlap) ....whittling woods ....or you know,.... whatever it is, ....if you, ...just do something... (Bow: House work),... exactly.
......But I ..do agree that.... I think Art in our society,.... and our society in general, ....has become extremely superficial,.... and I think ....that's why you see, ....you know, ...what the,.. what's the guy that did the urinal?
What's his name again?.... (Bow: Duchamp) ....Yeah,.... when he did that, ....that was something new..... and it was something shocking,.... but what,... the danger ...of those type of things is that ...other artists get on that ...bandwagon and think, ...."well, let's do something just ...for the shock value." ...(Vivian: It's a trend)
..... And there is one particular ....very,.... very rich artistic,.... can't think of his name? ...Maybe you guys know,.... in ah,.... he's based in New York, ....and one of his,... famous things that sold.... for over a million dollars is a fish tank..... with three basketballs ....floating in it.
....And he also does the,.... you know, ....the clipping, ...he made a hedge out of? ...What's his name?
Bow:
Kunst.
Daisy:
Yeah,.... Kunst. .....He, ...I watched tan interview ...with him, ....and he had the three balls in.... the fish tank ...and he went up to,... him.., ...and the reporter said to him, ...."So,.... you know,... I want to,... I don't ...want you to think.... I'm ignorant or anything, .....please forgive me,.... but can you explain... to me.... what this means?"
Vivian:
"Why are you ...shooting baskets... next to .....the aquarium and hey,.... you missed the basket ....and it fell in" ...(Bow: No) ...He' said.
Bow:
He's, ...he's very ...articulate.
Daisy:
Right,.... right, ...he's,... he's,... obviously,.... an extremely intelligent man, ....and he went on this ....whole existentialist.... tangent about ..."Well, ...it's, ...you know, ....it's human existence floating... in the body of... particles,... of space... and time,.."
..... but he said it ....obviously... a lot more eloquently ...than I just did.
.... And afterwards ....he got him to explain ...each piece of Art. ....And... when you ...listen to this man speak, ....you gotta sit there and go.... "Wow, ...he's smart,... and he's eloquent, ....and he's intelligent."
....And the reporter's last comment .....at the end of the piece was.... "Well, ....the one thing... that I discover today,... is that anyone ....can be... a successful artist,.... in the 90"s, ...if he has ...a good vocabulary." ....And that's... exactly what,... you know, ...the point was.
Luke:
Maybe, ....maybe.... what Art's function... is these days,.... is maybe... just to infuse a certain degree,.... of,.. like,.... if it's too quirky..... If the actual Art itself ..is too quirky, ...actually you were saying about ....the overlapping of things.
.... It's sort of.... how it comes into food. ...If you have ...a nicely prepared meal, ...a dish in front of you, ...and it's ...artistic.... in it's own way ..I there's color,... there's form...., there's shape there's a sculptural quality... to a lot of food.
.... That's gonna be ...a lot more enjoyable to eat. ....Same with like architecture, ...or landscaping... and stuff. People,.... if people are.... aware of Art ....and informed about Art, ....and the principles that... sort of define Art.
..... Maybe they bring that, .....they can incorporate.... that into culture. ....If everybody's thinking in.. those sorts of ways... and functional,
.....functional furniture ....and whatever, ...everything else... that just sort of has a little bit of.... a kinda arty,.... kinda cool vibe about it.
..... It's just sort of makes for a more, ....a more nice over all,.... aesthetic -- nice over all day to day life.
Vivian:
....Why does Art,.... the definition of ....Art has changed a long time.... When you look at the past... Artists, ...you know ....Leonardo Da vinci ...or any of those people, ...Picasso.
....They weren't looking for.... fame when they drew those,.... those were, ...you know, ....came from within ....and they were trying to ...express themselves. ...Nowadays, ...people express themselves,..
.. why? --... to become famous.... (Luke: Exactly) ...Because, ...they want to,... you know,... find or discover something new ...that no one else has done, ....which is kind of what... we've been discussing so far as.
....History has been repeating itself,.... and there's nothing new ...and original anymore. ...But that's just it, ....it doesn't have to be original it .....could be anything that .....you feel ...or want to express on paper ...or through anything.
.....And then..... anyone else can look at that and.... feel something to and that ....should be what Art is, not something that, ....you know, ...everybody tried,... this kind of pants, ....and those kind of pants,... well why don't we try pants like these, ....because no one else has.
Bow:
But I think... you hit on a point, ....It's everybody should feel. ....And I think that even if,.... like people generally think of art as,... in the positive way,.... feeling good about it,.... or being inspired,... but a feeling can also be negative. ...(Vivian: Right, right)
........It's the same as like, ...as Kunst put it, ....you got a negative impression... from this guy, ...you know,... and that,... if you were a sculptor, ....maybe that... would inspire you not to do.... what he's doing and actually,.... make this masterpiece, ...that a million people ...would be inspired by. ...So I think it's all relative.
Daisy:
I think that's a valued point. ....And I do think that,.. you know, ...whatever, ...whatever debate, ...you're having, ...over the history of time, ...extremists... have been everywhere.
.... Whether they be radical feminists ....or whether they have, ...you know,... this will certainly offend some people, ...the Nazis.
...You know, ....I mean, ...basically,... they were all extremists, ...and we have learnt things ...from them.... Whether it be, ...not to do that,... or to do that,.... I think extremism definitely ...serves its point in society and... it is a necessary thing, ...for growth?
Luke:
But they shouldn't,... they shouldn't be censored. ...They should, ...I think censoring, ...censoring them is wrong. ...Because... they just go underground. ...I think it's alright to... have them up there ...and just say, ....well that sucks for these reasons.... I think we have to understand that.
Vivian:
Well let's take the recent,... recent example, ...Eminem,.... not the candy that ...melts in your hands,... but the Artist, ...ok? ...Lots of people ...don't like his stuff,.... lots of parents disagree... and want to ban him, ...and don't want... their children listening to it.... But that is a form of Art, too. ..Right?
Bow:
I believe, ...it's sound, ...he doesn't sound like.. an intellectual,... but I believe in his,... his idea,... that is. ...He's like,... in his lyrics,... even though they rhyme,... he is talking like people talk, ...at least,... that's what I heard ...when I was going to school.
Vivian:
But that's rap,... you know,.. that, we...
Bow:
You are agreeing.
Vivian:
Yeah,... I agree. ...That's rap, ...I mean, ....just because it ...may not be the type of music t...hat you listen to,... but, ...and they say,... "Oh, ..it's loud,... there're just rhyming",.... but it's not necessarily true, ...a lot of it. ...really does have al lot to say.
Bow:
And this is the contradiction, too..... Most kids learn ....swear words... from their parents, ...they hear it from their dad. ....At least in my neighborhood, ...everyone, ...dad's swear, ...you know, ...to say like oh, ...no this guy... is swearing... and he's saying fag and stuff,... you heard that ...from your dad like ten years before.
Vivian:
He learned it ...from his dad (Daisy: But I think...)
Bow:
Exactly.
Daisy:
But musically,... rap, ...I think was a natural evolution, ...not just lyrically,.. but,... especially rhythmically. ..It came from obviously black people... And pretty much, a...ll of our modern music..., they have created from, ...you know..., Jazz to Blues,... and the,... and then it went.. to Soul to Funk.... And rhythmically,... it was the natural evolution of their music.
.... So, ...it certainly plays... an important role... in our music development. ...I don't think it ...should be laughed at,... there's bad rap... and there's good rap,... of course.... But, you know,... it's an important part of our musical develop-ment.
Vivian:
Sure, ..I mean it could be... criticized the opposite way around, ...and I mean..., if all the teens in the world that.. liked rap got together and said... "Mom and Dad,... we don't like that old country music you're listening to" ...you know.
Daisy:
Which they probably do.
Vivian:
Well the honky-tonk stuff, I mean.
Luke:
And and the thing,... it's like,... it's not the issue that rap music is offensive,... or the rhythms are offensive,... it's the things that they're saying, ..within them, ...in the, violence against women,... and violence against gays and stuff.... But I mean,... it wouldn't be popular ...if there wasn't, ...if there weren't people... who were sort of going for that.... I like yeah, ..."that speaks to me," ....you know.
Luke: T
hat speaks to me,... you know,... to a degree.
Vivian:
And that is...
Bow:
And it may not be... necessarily the thing.... Yeah, but I mean that's,.. that's kinda, ...that's the thing it taps into a certain vein ...and becomes popular.
Daisy:
Right.
Vivian:
But, that's, ...that's like you speaking for themselves,.. well I mean,.. that is the movement among, ...no longer the X generation,.. but is it the E-generation, ..or whatever. ...I mean..., but the youth of not just America, ..but any. ..country, ...most of them want,.. you know, ..they've got funky hair..., and funky clothes ...and they're listening.. to this music that's totally against abortion..., and this ...and that or pro ...or whatever.
Vivian:
But, ....hey, ...(Daisy: They want something that's out there.).. think back twenty,... thirty,.. forty,.. fifty years ago..., there's was flower power, ...they were against this and that.... (Daisy: The Beatles?... Beatles) Yeah, sure.... (Daisy: ...The Beatles was banned.. in some states in America)... The youth of any time period,.. (Daisy: Sure) ...(Luke: It's a generation gap, yeah)... through Art and music to express themselves... (Luke: Those things change fast)... (Bow: In a America?)
Daisy:
But they were, ...they were.
Bow:
Not in Australia, ...though?
Daisy:
No.
Bow:
So Australia loves the Beatles,... but America hates them.
Daisy:
But, ...actually... I was gonna talk about... what Luke was just saying. ...That, ...there are people out there,... t.hat are actually liking this stuff that Emimen ...or other rap artists are talking about.
Vivian:
Sure, even adults.
Daisy:
Even if it means,... you know,... killing women,... or you know, ...raping your mother, ...or whatever he talks about. But maybe, ...I was,... it's just an idea..., what you were saying before about... political correctness..., maybe there are... other people out there like yourself, ...that are really sick of this.., "I've gotta watch my "Ps and 's, ...and I'm not allowed to call this person this, ...I'm not allowed to burn the flag,... I'm not allowed to do this, ...I'm not allowed to do that, ...maybe they're sick of that, ..and they want to get out there ...and have this shocking stuffs and.. (Luke: It's a reflex).., yeah...
Vivian:
And, ..and I wanted to make my point..., I mean, ..for those people... who are always arguing, ..why don't they go and, ...if there are ....so many people ...out there like that,... they can go ...and educate their children to not do ...stuff like that and to..., you know..., follow conservative ...or whatever views that you have. ...I mean they don't go out,... all they do is sit there and complain about..., you know..., oh they're rapping here... and they're talking about this.. and that. Well, ...they're not educating their own children, ...that's a whole different topic,.. isn't it?
Luke:
As long as it gets a discussion going...
Bow:
The interesting thing that I've noticed,... is that, ...we are talking about Emimem ...and lyrics and rap and stuff, ...and that's why... in the states they... became popular..., was because they're hearing, .."Oh my God, ...he just said fag or something,".. so like that. ...But, Emimem is popular here,... and most people don't even know.. what he's saying... Why is that, ..do you think?
Vivian:
It sounds good to them, maybe.
Bow:
Is that what it is? Is it the music? The rhythm?
Daisy:
Well, well, ...I have to say ...that I think there's a lot better rap ..out there rhythmically ...than Emimen,
I think ...it's pretty straight forward. ..His rap,... it's not exactly technical ...or complex
.... But I have to say that ...he is popular ...so he's obviously been marketed... in this country,... and it's come to this country.... And,... when you have,... what do they have to compare to.., Korean rap? ..you know, ...it's gotta be bette..r than that sorry to say.
Vivian
: If you wanna scrutinize it that... precisely in detail..., hey,.. it's all PR, ..and marketing, ..ok?... That's the reason why he's up there.... (Daisy: They've got money,.. probably) ..There's lots of other rappers ...who sit there and talk about dope ...and killing their Mamas ..and Papas...
Daisy:
You look at ...what's that band out now, ..that is, ...all the controversy is around... Is it DJ. Doc? ..They've got, ...their cd is all about... police brutality a..nd their down on the police ..and everything.
Vivian:
They're saying.
Daisy:
That was popular twenty years ago.. in the States, ...and Western countries, ..and that's now coming in now.... Perhaps that's.. a reflection of the movement of this culture..., that they are... becoming more open-minded... and they're going through what we, ..probably.., went through twenty years ago.
Bow:
Or just a different thing, ...like I heard in Japan,.. a lot of popular music is about MSG. ...They don't want monosodium glutamate.. in their food,... so that's kind of a big issue.
Vivian:
More they could still borrowing... from another culture,... and not coming up ...with their own lyrics, ..or ideas?
Daisy:
Well,... I think it's probably..., more along the line that this culture is now, ...actually, ...their experience... and an element of freedom of speech.... And I think that they are..., it's, it must be exciting to them, ...all of sudden these kids,... even if they are not great musicians,... they have an opportunity to say. "...I think this sucks.... that police are this way,... and I think this is terrible.... And that..., that's a gmat, thing to happen I think...
. Because ...they have definitely been oppressed.... for a long time... by their own people, ...not by other people, ...but by their own government.
Vivian:
But it's still being censored,... I mean,... the Korean government still censors... a lot of music and... (Daisy:... Sure)... I mean,.. even, ...like you said, ..DJ Doc,... or is it Mr. ...Seo Tae.li, ..
you know, ..a lot of their lyrics, ..even whole songs... are completely censored, ...because... there're foul language ...or the material...
Daisy:
Right, ...they might have like beeps ...and things in there ...but it's still better than... twenty years ago.... I know ...one Korean artist ...who brought his album out, ...and there was no profanity.. in it whatsoever. ...
....And it was just... because ...his lyrics were about,.. I guess,.. socialist ideas, ..and humanity... (Bow: Who was that?)... Bob Dylan... like type lyrics.... And his album was on sale... for one hour... before the government confiscated... every copy of it ...and wouldn't let it be sold in the county.
....And I think we've come a long way... in twenty years, ...and this is a good thing... And if culture and... ..I think that's what creates Art,.. is if people have this ability.. to express themselves.
Luke:
But the danger in that,... is what,... sort of what starts happening,.. you see it a lot in the Western cultures, ...where they have marketing... down to such an Art...
..... is that controversy sells.... And people would say ...anything just to.. ...become famous,... just to make money.
.... So it's not about ...people's better interests ...and it's not about ...what you really feel anymore..., what, ..what really, ...what you're trying to... reflect out of society. ...It's just like... being such a.....so out there, and so weird ...and trying shock so many people,... that they talk about you ..and they hate you,... so a large part of Emimen's appeal was.., you know ..(Daisy: People hate you), ...people hated him ..and some people really liked him.
Vivian:
]
That's the reason ...why we gave him his fame.
Luke:
Sure, Yeah,... And the more controversial stuff... and Madonna made a... whole career out of it, ...like she's offended everybody... all the way through,... but always just like.. a little bit, like...
Vivian:
Too cool to really, ..really hate for real.
Luke:
She never went too far out there, ...but, I mean, ...that's,... that's the thing.
sunyuting1 2008-06-14 19:37
分拆语音
4. 第2册1. Art and Culture B2的43分45秒到57分13秒结束语音对应的文本
Vivian:
And that's the reason ...why governments restrict Art,...including music and TV... and what not so much,...is because they're afraid,... you know, ...take eastern cultures,... for example, ...in comparison with Western cultures.
They're afraid .....that their society is going to change too much, ....you know,... similarly too,... Western cultures.... And then ...there's gonna be violence in schools ....and then there's,... it's gonna be disrupting their homes ....and the nice culture that they have.
Daisy:
I don't know, .....you know,... you look at like.... some of the animated books.... and cartoons in 3apan. ....I think they're way more offensive, ...than some of the rap ....that comes out of the United States.
....But I think that ...at this age, ....don't every single one of us think.... that we can look at some type of Art ....or music ....or entertainer and say, ....ok,... this is the real deal,... or this is crap,... this is..., you know, ...this is just somebody go in it ....for the shock value.
..... I think.... if you're at this age you have the ability to do that, ...(Vivian: Sure) ...the danger, ...of course, ....and I think ....what govern-ments are trying to ....protect is children.
....But,.... I think that should be,... you know, ...the parents' responsibility, ...and not the government's responsibility.
Vivian:
....Well..., that was my whole point, too.... Government restrict, ....in that for the sake of children ...and teens and what's...
Luke:
But that's where the families.... have to be more responsible. ....It is true that celebrities really are the role models ....for kids these days, ....that wasn't the case in the past..... And celebrity itself was never like ...a great thing,....
..... I mean ...now, you know, ...someone's really beautiful, ....and they're on a catalog... or something supermodels,.... I like,.... they may not have anything interesting to say... but people want to hear what they have to say.... It's kinda bizarre,... you know.
Vivian:
It was kinda like.... the Wheel of Fortune Vanna White deal,... you know,... she was on there for like ten years,.... and everyone's like ...."hot babe, ...hot babe",.... they used to bet on... what color dress she'd wear,.... every day of the week.... (Daisy: Really?)
....Yeah. ...But then, ...all of a sudden one day,... what was it,.... the early nineties? ...All of a sudden they said.... "We wanna hear Vanna talk"... and so she started to say... "Hi",.... and then the next line ....after a couple of months was.... "Hi everyone".... and then now ....she actually has two lines ...to say on each show.
Luke:
And it used to be like, ...it used to be like,... the thinkers,... the writers, ..and politicians, ...philosophers that would sort of ...form public opinion, ....who would be the people... who sort of defined ...what a culture was about and now,.... it says a lot.
.... In that the media, ....and the stars of the media are the ones sort of, ...are considered to be the artists.... and visionaries.... and the ones that kids wanna emulate, ...wanna be like,... and there the ones ...who have such sway.
Vivian:
But I agree they have a lot of force ...but I still agree ....parents all the way... control everything. ...If they uh, ...got a real good grip on their children... from an early start,... if all the parents did,.. you know, ...the masses all together,... you know,... got together and said,... "Hey, we're really watching our kids, ...we're giving them good foundations.. and morals and..."
Bow:
You have to be told not to fully trust the media.
Daisy:
Well, Bow, ,,,,you know I know you have a child, ,,,,and I was wondering how do, ,,,how do you feel about, ,,,like probably,,,,, pornographic comic books ,,,,or that type of influence with your child?
Bow:
I personally like them,,,,, I wouldn't like, ,,,,I wouldn't like her to see them,,, that early on, ,,,but the thing that's kind of interesting is like,,,,,
,,,,, the fact that they say it,,,, takes a village to raise a child. It's true,,,, because,,,, if you think about like, ,,,for example,,,,, these days children in the world,,,, in most developed countries, ,,,they play video games, ,,,that's a fun thing for them. ,,,But in Japan, ,,,the more popular games,,, are very, very violent. ,
,,,,But, the real violence takes place ,,,in American schools,,,, who aren't allow to play those games, ,,you know,,,. So, why is it? ,,,Is it because they see TV,,,, because they're oppressed, ,,,why doesn't ,,,,that much violence happen in Japan?
Daisy:
Maybe we don't know about,,,,,, well, ,,,they don't have guns, right?
Bow:
Is that why?,,,, Is it because of guns? ,,,,You think that there wouldn't be,,, as much violence in America without the guns?,, I mean, yeah.
Daisy:
I think that, well,,,,, people wouldn't die as often,,,, I guess.
Vivian:
,,,,But isn't,,,,, it always the fact ,,,,with the things you don't know,,,, the inhibitions that you have, ,,,anyway, ,,,anything that you want to,,,, it's not open for you, to,,,, like if your parents say, ,,,"Don't touch? you wanna touch.
Daisy:
Uh. Interesting point.,,,, Then could Art be defined ,,,,as an expression of something,,, that has been suppressed. ,,,,,Perhaps that the,,,,, the sexual ,,,,comic books ,,,,and that type of behavior in Japan, ,,,that,,,,, is so common,,,,, is sexual,,,,, because of sexual repression ,,,in their culture?
Vivian:
Maybe.
Luke:
Yeah, ,,,,it's a probably pretty hard one,, to sift through, ,,,well, I mean.
Bow:
It depends on the content, too. ,,,I mean if you think about like, ,,,in America they say,,, you know,,,, "Don't look at Playboys,, when you're young.",,,, or something,,,, but yeah, ,,,we want to,,,, cause we,,,,, we like naked chicks,,,, you know.,,, But it's not like bondage ,,,or tying up woman,,, or repressing them ,,,or anything, ,,it's just like...
Vivian:
Like what?,, A woman with big boobs?
Bow:
Yeah, exactly.
Luke:
What's the difference between pornography,,,, and erotica,,,, though. ,,,,They say,,,, that pornography is racy ,,,and offensive ,,,,and very base in crass.
Daisy:
It degrades women.
Luke:
But erotica is artistic. ,,,,(Bow: Who are they?),,, People,,,, in general,,,, they define,,,, you know pornography is pornography ,,,and erotica is erotica, ,,,,and erotica has this higher standing,,,. And it (Daisy: Artistic.),,,, has more of an artistic element to it.
Daisy:
Well,,,,, I don't know,,,,, but you know,,,, exactly, ,,,,what you just said,,, that Brandon there,,,, I think like that, ,,,goes back to the point I made before that, ,,,(Bow: I'm Bow) ,,,you know, America.,,.. Exactly, what you just said that,,,, Bow,,,,, it goes back to the point I was talking about before,,,, that in America, you know,,,, women,,,, you were saying that,,,,, it just seems natural looking ,,,at woman,,, with big boobs,,,, but maybe that's because,,, American society,,, is not sexually repressed.
Bow:
I think that,,,,, they think that,,,, pornography is,,,, when women are being ,,,,debased in,,,, film or (Daisy: ,,,,,Yeah,,,, like putting dog collars on them), ,,,,exactly, ,,,,when they're making woman to look bad, ,,,,whereas erotica is more a mutual consensual thing ,,,between men and woman.
Daisy:
Yeah,,,, I think that's acceptable pornography or erotica,,,, if you like,,,,, as long as both parties are involved,,,, in some mutually acceptable act.,,, That's okay.
Luke:
What about ,,,the Robert Mapplethorpe?,,,, Pornography or Art?,,,, Robert Napplethorpe was,,,, a homosexual photographer ,,,,who took pictures of black men's penises,,,,, but he also took pictures of flowers.
,,,, And he had an exhibition, ,,,,in Boston, ,,,,,of the black men's penises,,,, and there was protests that ",,,,This is the pornography".
Vivian:
O.K. Then he was just a queer,,,, with like two personalities, ,,ok?,,,, How about this?,,, In a newspaper like six months ago,,,,, it was the Herald or ,,,,something like that,,,,, there was a picture,,,, in the culture/Art section,,,,, it was about some movie set,,,, where they had like five hundred nude people lying,,,, in the streets.,,, Well, I was, ,,,,I just happen to be reading the opposite page when my friend's daughter comes running up ,,,,and my friend,,, and I were reading this one article on the opposite side, ,,,,but she comes and says,,, "There,,, you know,,,,, there's butt-naked people all over the picture on the newspaper"
,,,,,I mean, ,,,and then my friend was very,,,, you know, ,,,kind of revolted,,,, and she was like ,,,"How could they put like,,,, you know, ,,,bare naked people,,, on the newspaper".
Daisy:
Well, there's bare naked people,,,, when having sex,,, I don't think that there is ,,,,anything wrong,,, with the nude body.
,,,,If, if your,,,, if your,,, I think saying to a child, ,,,because that person is naked,,,, it's a bad thing,,,. Probably, ,,,it's gonna give the kid problems later in life.
Luke:
,,,,What about ,,,,why is alright to show ,,,,a person naked ,,,,if they've been killed ,,,or beaten and dragged through the streets of some city?
Bow:
Or why is it ok?
Luke:
To celebrate it.
Bow:
Yes, ,,,,on National Geographic ,,,,where you can see African woman's breast.,,, Why is that different?
Vivian:
Yeah, why is that considered Art.
Daisy:
As long as, ,,,,if nudity is represented,,, as something that's debased like a woman ,,,with a dog collar being whipped ,,,,with a cat of nine tails,,,
,,,,. Then of course, ,,,there's something wrong with that. ,,,But the human body in itself,,,, if it's naked ,,,and there's a picture of it being naked.,,,, I don't see that there's anything offensive about that,,,, if there's something offensive about ,,,,that then there's something wrong,,, with my naked body.
Luke:
What if it's a man with..,, being whipped,,, by a cat's nine tails?
Bow:
Exactly,,,, Robert Mapplethorpe, ,,same thing,,,, same guy. ,,,That's what he had,,,. He had homosexuals, ,,,in weird positions,,,,, one guy was pissing ,,in another guy's mouth,,,, but then again he was a great photographer.,,, He did,,,, he made great black and white pictures.
Daisy:
,,,Fair enough, ,,,,,but both of those guys were kind of into it.,,,, I think the point that I'm getting is that a lot of pornography, ,,,,,if they have a woman in a dog color,,,, with the cat of nine tails,,,. It's suggesting something about ,,,,a women's subservience,,,,, and submissiveness to a male,,,,. And that's wrong.,,,, If you are perpetuating,,,, that ideal of a woman,,,, then to women,,,, in general,,,, that is degrading. ,,
,,,,But, you know,,,,, if, if, that was ,,,,from a homosexual prospective acceptable,,,, who am I to say, ,,,I'm nora male homosexual,,,, so I don't know.... what is acceptable or not.... But I am a woman, ..so I can,.... I can offer my opinion ...from that point of view.
Bow:
What about lesbians?
Daisy:
Lesbians?.... Well, they can do ...whatever they want to. ..I'm not a lesbian.
Bow:
What do you think about them?
Daisy:
What do I think of them?
Bow:
Yeah.
Daisy:
I think that's fine.
Bow:
Really?
Vivian:
She thinks it's great. .....But what if I was talking ....from a very conservative mother's view point..., you know, ....there's lots of mothers ...who are against.., for example, ...prayer in schools or,... you know, certain, ....when you go to Art class, ...you see these pictures... and paintings of nudes... and whatever. ...I mean..., they're totally against it.... I mean.... (Daisy: But those pictures aren't...) ....They're saying ....how can you argue that this is Art? ....I don't want... my children exposed to this sort of thing at this early age or...
Daisy
: But I don't think ....their children would be exposed to... homosexual pictures.... They might be exposed to, ...what about David?... I mean..., look at David ...that's a sculpture... from hundreds... and hundreds of years ago and that,.... you know.., that....., he's nude, ...his genitals are showing..... You can't censor that,... you can't censor ...the entire Renaissance period.
Luke:
That, ....that sculpture always made me feel really good. ...Actually.
Vivian:
Did you guys ever, what is that, ...I don't know... what it is called, ....but there is this hall where they've made like ....Ten Davids all around this hall... and they've chopped off his.... (Daisy: His penis?) Yeah.
Bow:
The hall of Justice?
Vivian,
Daisy: Ha Ha...
Bow:
How about the difference between the, ....sculpture say like,.... David, where that,.... was accepted at that time ...and now it's pornography... But, I think, ...in his exhibition..., people chose... and pay money to go inside, ...if you if you believe ...that is pornography,... and it's offensive,.. don't go in, ...don't pay.
Daisy:
Exactly.
Vivian: Right.
Daisy:
Right.
Vivian
: But then what about... when the artist publicized,... it's not something... that you choose... or do not choose ...to go in and see..., but... (Daisy: ..But I think, ...it'll be pretty different......) you are forced to almost absorb it. ...You're forced to... look at it in the middle of City Hall?
Luke:
You have, ....just as other artists have the right to display their stuff ...and advertise it ...and try to give make them, ...a living for themselves.... People have the right to say to disagree... with it and I think that's the thing,... that's the thing too,.... about art. Sometimes it'll shoc...k and sometimes it'll annoy, sometimes it'll inspire...., sometimes it'll offend. ...And that's the thing.., that's its purpose,... that's what it is supposed to do.... And people can't,... it can't be stifled to suppressed,... it just has to make people like,... take an active part,.... and it's great if it has that effect on people.... Because a lot of things ...are really just watered down these days.... And Art is one of these pure..., like these good things. ....If it is done properly ....and it serves the purpose it's supposed to serve.... It will get people riled up about something.... That's important.
Daisy:
And you know, ....even the way... that women have been... perceived through Art,... you know,... like the Botticelli Beauties,... I mean, ...they were quite curvy,... if you know ...what I mean,... they were big women.
Bow:
Voluptuous.
Daisy:
And even in some of the paintings,.... their breasts were deformed.... (Vivian: Sure)... deformed... and that was like, ...their breasts had big lumps in them ....and knowing ...what we know today,... and we look back at that,.... those women were.... in like developed stages of breast cancer.
Bow
: Salvador Dali had like ants ....and things on women's.. genitals you know,... just like...
Daisy:
Right, ..right, ...but, ...he was, ...he was definitely disturbed, ...yeah,... I love his Art... but there was still definitely something,... he,... actually Salvador Dali. ...He had several paintings... where women wear severed like their parts of their body were in different, i...n different areas.... And there's actually..., a killer on the loose in Europe ....that's doing the exact things... out of Salvador Dali's paintings at the moment..... So has that inspired him?... I guess.... the guy was just crazy anyway ...and a fan of Salvador Dali's. ...But still it was interesting.
Vivian:
Well you know,.... I thought it kind of ironical...., how everything comes back to,... well it can't be resolved anyway.... Why..., because people.... have opinions... Art and culture.... This is everyone expressing themselves..... So it can never really be resolved.... Is it wrong,... is it right.., is it beautiful..., is it not.... Like..., Luke was making that point earlier..... So it's kind of like a matte..r of freedom of speech, ...and that can't be... resolved.
Bow:
Beauty is in ...the eye of the beholder.
Daisy:
Yes, I was just about to say... the same thing.... And I think that you're right,.. it can't be resolved,.. but I think... that's the purpose of Art, ...to, you know.., inspire debate, ...to inspire thought..., to inspire.
Vivian:
And there's always... going to be critics... who don't agree.
