浏览小技巧

sunyuting1 2008-06-28 13:02
压码听懂的文本浮想图象操作要要领：

1、整理修改原文错误的文本，用。。。。省略号标识语音句子间隔，同时在原来文本用点黑每行的办法进行阅读语音，一旦发现文本于磁带不同，按照语音在文本上进行打字修改，注意左右手的分工协作。也可以在每行用鼠标点一下标识位置，进行打字添加单词，反复练习几遍，知道全部错误修改完毕，这时语音基本也完全记忆下来，看着文本的语音就能回想的和磁带一样，进行压码完整句子回想语音的节奏。又了这样的感觉即可停止练习。
2、压码听磁带进行心中压码听写或者压码注音练习：
用15-25%的速度听磁带语音，慢慢欣赏语音，闭上眼睛，躺在沙发上，身体处于一种舒服的状态。由于播放的速度很慢，这是你闭眼就可以在心中听写文本了，要将每个句子的音节听仔细，心中回想，可以用手意念来画写音节的字头，遇到比较难的单词还可以听写完整的文本，或者又选择地听写，个别没有跟上听写的放过也没有关系，这样只要速度足够慢，你就可以实现闭眼听写和压码注音了。这样练习的语音是最精细的语音。他比在纸张上的听写具有舒服的感觉，而且可以集中精力压码回想细腻的语音，整个身心都陶醉在其中，真正自然理解语音、文本和意思。
3、闭眼浮想文本语音的图象：
听一段时间，语音越来越精细，意念听写的文本和压码注音文本越来越完整。你就可以开始闭上眼睛进行浮现文本了。还是躺在沙发上，面想墙，迷着眼睛，看语音，随着语音的节奏，文本就可以出现了，就象写在一面墙上一样，有太阳光线，就可以看到红色的文本。
你的眼睛闭进一些，心情情景，这是随着语音的旋律，文字就可以缓缓地一个句子一个句子向左移动了，你要精细地体现出来文本的节奏的变化，就可以将文本的词组听的短一些，压码这个较小句子的词组了，你很幸福地体会到刚才整理的文本，还有这些。。。。省略号，将词组短语分割，闭眼看得文本更仔细，文本慢慢随着语音向左运行。语音文本和意思得到了完美的结合。


sunyuting1 2008-06-28 16:50
与音频频谱对应的文本：


分拆文本：

2..、《听说大突破》3册1.Jobs and EducationA面14分20秒到结束的语音文本

Bow:

But you have,.....(but you).. have a core group of

.... courses ....that you have to take too ( the coures.....).....I mean.... you have..... electives a certain number of.... core courses .....that are mandatory...

Daisy:

Right,.... but in the core groups...



......(to) you have ..(um).....English you don't ... math is not.., (mm)

.....(uh).(uh) (uh)....you know ..(uh)....a prequisite for .....college

..... unless you got you need it....... for the course you're gonna study in.... college.

...... But the core groups ......would be .....the sciences,... history

.... and English as compulsory, .....that's the only one ....that is compulsory.....But....

in those core groups ......there are several different.... things to study,....

......(um) the sciences ......they can range..... from anything.... from biology.......I think.... there's natural sciences .......which is just a study of.(oh)


..... basically the environment .....and current events .....and things like that.(mm)

.....But.... I think that

.....is good idea, .....and the reason being.

..... because

....all children.(uh)...... and all ...people

...... are not designed...... for the three R's........ if you're just raising..(uh)... students

......and (I)... I think it definitely .....has things to do.... with economic groups, too.

......(uh) Children that grew up in

........in privileged families .....have been learning to read .......and write even....before they got into... kindergarten

..... but some kid from the ghetto

......is already..... ten paces behind...... a privileged child.

......But, he might be ......an extremely ......talented.

....(uh)... photographer ....or artist. (mm)....I think that .....we need to ..(uh)...gear our curriculum in... schools
.....around that ....to um,

.....be targeted ...all children ......not one group of children.(  right.... And that way .....everybody has an...... opportunity to succeed.


Vivian:

Well I agree..(um)(I).... I guess it depends upon .......which school that.....you're going to....... but

...when I ....went to school ....in Georgia(uh)

....(um).

.. it was a very

.....restricted curriculum that ...we all had to attend.

.....But then(I) .....I changed to international school

......and it was similar to....(uh). the system that you're describing now.

...... Whereas .....we had to take everything .(uh).....which is one .....elective um...

.....(um)... when I.... went to the... international school

......they had a curriculum

.....very much similar to .......what .........you have just described

......You had to take certain,

......you had to take certain.... (uh) classes

......but they had 6-7 different..(to um)

...... what do you say?.... Venuses of that

....... for example ......science... like you mentioned.(mm)... you can study natural sciences, or... you can .....study biology

.....and whatnot..... In the other schools .......take each one as ....you went up one ....grade ...but here (right,  right)......you get to choose .....which one you(um).... want to study .....and you can choose and...(um)..... study it until you graduate.

.....And the remainder .(mm)....of your classes

...similar.(mm)., the same thing...... even history ....(.you could)

.......you could ...study just (mm)...contemporary or(mm).

...... current history or.(mm).... you know.... about...

Daisy:

(yeah)  Well my major .....was English Literature..... and obviously..... for English Literature ....you don't need.... math.

..... And ...I did very ...well in... school

.....and but..... if I had have taken math

..... when I graduated ...from school.

..... I wouldn't have got ....into the university..... that I did get into. (mm)

.....And... I.... also.... .(um).....wouldn't have.... got the grades (mm)

.....and that .....one grade .....in my final

........ what is(equi) ... equivalent .....of the SATs ain.... the states..... that one grade....... for math would.... have brought me down.... probably

......an average maybe about ....15 marks...

Vivian:

Right..... Eventually it brings down...... your grade point average.(right)... because it's not ...what you are,

....you know... (  talented in)...talented in... honed on in.

Bow:

Yeh but I think .....in ....other aspects of life.... you need math.  (right)

..... People use ....even though (uh)....like people..(um)

.. in my university.....were always..... like

I hate calculus why the hell..,(sure).. why am I taking calculus. .....I'm never gonna use it again.(sure)

..... but it turns out..,(they).... they've proven ....that people

..... use calculus everyday

..... just not in the form.... of in numbers.(mm).. and stuff like that.

Daisy:

But I took it ....for... in eleven years,(haha)

..... you know,..... it was just last year .....that I graduated.... so it wouldn't .....affect my grade to .....get into university (mm).. I didn't take it.

.... So I already had... eleven years of training in it, (mm)(yeah)

....So ...I think that's.... fair enough.

Luke:

It teaches... I think it teaches

.... students to be.... well rounded(mm)... because that's the reality ...of the work force..... If you're going to..... like if you think of ....the people...you knew ....who went to college....... or.... studied something ....in high school.... with this thing in mind ...like I studied anthropology..... I did not... become an ....anthropologist.(mm)

....(I didn't end).... I didn't end up digging .....for bones or anything.(mm)

..... Bow studied architecture .....but he didn't

...go on to... study architecture. (mm)...But the thing is we found.... work in different things,

....the thing is...... you

..... the thing you study.

.... is not always.... the thing you end up doing.(sure)

Daisy:

Sure.

Luke:

But....(it) it might ....if you have variety of things....you're learning, ....and you're learning ....how to manage your time....

....(and) and learning .....about different interests..... you have and stuff.

...... and if you'd just to be..(um).

....versatile.(right).

.... then you have a dynamic.( dynamic )

... education........ and then you sort of go in..... what ever ...directions....(mm)... you're able to take things...... that are offered to you.

Bow:

But you say that ....you don't apply,..... you don't actually ....apply..... like the skills that ....you learn .....if you don't work ...as like. .....For example..... I don't work as.... architect.....

..... but I do ..(um)..apply the education..... that I received from(  exatly)...there like I do

.....go to other countries............ and notice things ....architecturally.... that (mm)

.....stimulate .

...my intellect(mm)

.....because I .....had the chance to learn that. ...I think that just.... because

..... I'm not making..... money from ....what I studied....(I) I think ....that's not really (uh)... a big issue.

Daisy:

....No,... I don't think... it's an issue... at all..... And I think that is..... probably the main


......problem...... I have..... in all countries

.....with... um,..... tertiary education.(mm).... When you go to college

.....um... when(I)... I remember .....I took a class ....in college ....and the teacher... asked

......why ...are you ...in this class.

.....And every student ...answered

.....well,.... I'm taking,.... you know, ....taking business, ....this is like...... part of the .(um).

.....general... requirements..... so I have to take it.

.... Yeah, .....I wanna six ....figure salary .....or whatever.

..... and

....my answer was well

.... I ..took it... to get an ...education (mm)(mm)

.....and there was another girl .....who had similar answer...... And he said .....the only two .....who answered correctly .....were me and ...the other girl.

.... The reason being..... is that ....education

.....was never really .....put in place... for you to get ......six figure salary....(exatly).... It was there to,(you).... you know,.... to improve..(uh)... or stimulate..... the higher faculties...to make you an.

....(uh).. intelligent person...... to have an understanding ......of life (and)(mm)

.....and ...give you life...... experience, too.

Bow:

....Exactly,...(and uh)

... the point.... that I... like..... to... an example ....that I'd like to..... make is(uh)

.... at (uh)

..... MIT

..... they don't have the .....grading system......... like ....A, B, C ...or D... or F,

..... it's P... or F,.

..... it's pass or fail( oh ,I don't know)

..... Which I think is good .....because....(mm)... it's getting you.... to it's gearing you.... toward real life, .....because in real life

....that's what it is. (mm)......It's either you succeed ....or you don't....(  you don't)

...... And... it's not (you)... you kinda do

....you get a C..... you pass to the next level..,(hahaha....)

..... so I think actually

..... I think all ..(um).

.....higher learning institutions ......should have that kind of(mm)

.....grading system.(mm)

Luke:

... But if there,..... if they're ......only there to get you real job..... I mean

....(they)...if we're saying .....that the reason to,(to)........ to educate (yourself), ....educate yourself..,(hahahaha...)

..... is to... is to .....get a broader ......understanding of .....the world around you.....and to teach you to be a better person..... (and) (then I)..Then I think

....you should just learn ....like..... you're probably... working through school... anyway. .....You're gonna learn .....that.... if you don't cut ......the mustard....you're not ...going have ...the job.(haha)

..... But the shcooling thing.... I think,.... Yah,..... ok you weren't... so strong in this.., .....you were...(you were)  strong in this..,..... you apply.......yourself it's gotta be ...motivated more by

..... a personal conviction ....to learn that stuff. .....If you want to go just... to get a job

..... then you should probably just get a skill ......or something get a trade (right)....or something like that.

Daisy:

Vocational.... school.

Luke:

...Yeh...exactly. (mm).....But there's nothing wrong... with that either.
..... I mean

... it's useless. ....Yeh...

Bow:

...(the have to more theng  .....    )......MIT is a high level vocational school.

Vivian:

....Sure I agree,..... that kind of education

..... almost requires... something ...like that
..... but then

....when you're..... just about to enter... um..
.......college

.... and you're ....a junior or ....senior
..... don't you think that..

.. it kind of... requires....

...... and I would want this ....(a grade).....for my own children,.... yeah,... a grade, why?

......because..... you want the competition..... you want

the competitiveness.... you want your child...... to feel ....like.

... I want to beat .....this person next to me.

..... I want to do better .....I wanna get ...one on top of him.(mm)

Vivian:

I don't know...you know...(I)

Luke:

Maybe in business school.

Daisy:

.....(yeah)...Sure.... I mean... two different minds.... about.... that..... I think that

....(uh) natural.,

.....a little bit .....of natural competitiveness

.....is good

....but

...(um).. in high school ...

.....um...I was the youngest .....of six children.... ....and my... older.

., ....older ....5.

... brothers and ....sisters .....were...... incredibly successful.

.....So even though my..... parents ...weren't pushing me.....(I) ....I felt....

constantly

..... that I.... had to achieve

.....and... I became ....like not,.... I'm not even just.... talking about ....grades here
.....but

...an overachiever.... I had to do... everything. ....I had to

....enter every... competition. ....I had to ....come out and

.....I had to be .....the school president.....because ....my sister..... was and my......brother was.

..... And I felt ...this competition... all the time

.....and eventually.... it worked against me.

.....I ...was in.... Australia .....we call it ....."the tall puppy syndrome" .....and if you get...... too big.

....... they'll ..cut you down.

..... And...um...I

.... lost a lot of friends .....because.... people ....thought that I..... was a big head and..... because I .....always.... had to ..enter everything

.... and I was doing it...... for some other reason..... to satisfy ...my family

...... but.... in those situations... I think.... competition.... can work against you.(haha)


Vivian:

....But ...many kids.......students.

...(um).... want to do it

...themselves

....because they want to. ...They want.

.....I did it .....because... I wanted to, (I)

.....I wanted to be on .....top of my class.


Bow:

But there's ...the difference........ between competing..... with your... class mates........ to see ....if you can (out)...(and).out do them

.....and sort of pushing yourself and.... competing......... with yourself ....and seeing .....if you can push can (mm)....strive to do these things

..... I think that's the big problem ..(the  uh )...with the work ...force these days.... and with the education system.... is also that

...... idea of competition.....instead of cooperation ( yeah)... shouldn't be people .....be learning....... how to work .....with each other ...in productive ways... instead of trying to ...outdo each other. (right).....That's... that's......(tht"s that's)....., unproductive.

Vivian:

But then society has changed..... the educational system ....so that ...you do have to compete.... with other kids.... Why?(  of corse)

..... Because.... there's hundred colleges out there..... and they're all ranked.... from one to..... one hundred

.....and sure.... they're all good and.... as long as ...you get an education.

.... Hey ....good to go,

....and you're always.... gonna get a job..... But.

.. the fact of the matter ..is society... um...

......(um).(um)...makes this.

.,.... you know.... unseen ....kind of scale... where... they say ....what you went to ....your community college.

..... I don't know..I'd rather pick this ....dude from MIT or ....Harvard.... because... he went to a ...you know

....5 star school. (mm),  (mm)....So,(mm)

.....even though... you may be... smarter ...and you may have.... more qualifications,..... I'd rather..... pick

this student ....from bigger ......(uh  bigger) named school.

Luke:

....You know where,.... you know .....where actually..... the paradox in.... that is..(uh)

....(is) that especially... in America.

.... People they are striving to ......get like um..... high salaries ...and whatnot and .....people that.... get into.... the better schools.... tend to get higher salaries.

..... But.... (um)

....what they consider ....to be successful.... is making ...a lot of money.

.... And people... who have..,

.... the most millionaires ....in America .....are high school... drop outs... or haven't even.... entered high school. (right).....It was because....(they)... they learned (uh).....probably social skills..(mm)

..... early on.(mm)

..... You know... and they had to.... survive ....I guess somehow (mm)...and I mean

... they're exceptional kids.

Vivian:

(uh)..(you know)....You know the big point is... .....(Bow: Right. We dropped out from Harvard.)

....(hahaha...)...you know.... the big point ....that I always like to.. make is.

.... I kind of see like.

.... two.... it's mainly divided.... into two different(um)... groups..,
....(and  it's)....and it's making both

...point exactly
....but (um)...when you look at people... in general.
....There is two different... types of people.

....There's.... academically.... smart people

.... and then there's... people that are
.... I guess... you would put it .....(Daisy: common sense)
.... right, ..."street ...wise" ....or whatnot

....but these people... they are smart..,.....they've

....got ...what it takes.... but.

... they may not.... further their ...education... as far as ...they want to.

.... And then there's .(that)....ones in the middle
... that go ahead ...and take it... to next level

....and they may achieve most probably.

....But... the people that... are book smart ....and

.....(and) academically ....successful

.... may not it ....get as far as people that ....aren't even educated at all.(mm)

Daisy:

Well,.... you know,.... I ...look it ....I think that... generally schools ....and society ...is just... too competitive.

.....And... parents are ...pushing their kids.... (because).

......(e). exactly.... what you were saying.... you've got into (mm) ...this top school ...because it's number one

....and you're not gonna have your ...own law practice, ...(um)you're not...gonna be made an associate, ....you're not gonna be..

...(um).. a neurosurgeon.... if you don't ...get into this school..,

.... and.... the thing is...(is).

.... there's ...(and an)...an enormous amount of.... pressure ...on these children.

.... I think that it's too much ....to take.... for most kids.. at that age ..(mm)

.....and the other thing is....(is) maybe some of them(right)...(are not that)..... are not that smart ....and they can't take

....(right)....the medical degree ...or law degree.

..... (Vivian: they're not cut out for it)
....Yeah,(and).... we have to realize
..... there's nothing wrong with .......some guy

.....who... did fairly.... well in school.... but he pushed himself ......to be the best... he could be(mm).....but he ended up.... being...

..... I don't know.... in the army ...or ended up running... a video shop.
..... But he's doing well ....and he's (mm)....(he's)..making a bit of money he's doing ...what he enjoys. (mm)

....We put too much.... (much)thing on this, ..you know, ....you've got to... make this much money, .....you've got to have.(mm)... this status... in society.

Vivian:

There are people ...that are satisfied ...in the sector ...that ...they're in

...and earning

.... the amount..... that they are earning.

... and living.... the life.... that they are.... they are maybe people... that are raised.... from,

....you know,... filthy rich families

... that may be happy just,

....you know,

...working in an art ..studio.... creating their.... own,

.... you know, .(were).....pieces of art

.... Whereas someone ...from the streets wants
....(a high)... a high education.... and wants to come.... out of the ...best schools
.....so that they can ...you know ...do the best they can.



Bow:

People respond to different ways of learning too....(sure)...(haha)...., some people learn (from).... from ....experience thing(from)... from a hands on thing,
..... some people learn (from)

...from ...visual things, (right) ....some people learn(from) ...from listening to things..., some people learn (from)...from reading.


Vivian:

But the little kids' ...point was

father mother.... why can't you accept the fact...... that I am trying my best....and I'm gonna try to.... (Daisy: And this is my best) ...right, ...and continue ....trying my best

....but.. this is probably,.... you know,.(and I'm) (it's)... it's not saying ....hey you're dumb ..or anything...(mm)....but this is just as far as he goes

....and ...maybe it's... time to look elsewhere... or ..

....just be satisfied....(right). with what he is doing.

Daisy:

....This is what I can do for you....and I think that's the problem  (his)  (mm)...his parents... and society ...is just putting

....way ...too much pressure on people.

....Even my father ...you know.... I

... my entire high school....even from elementary school.

.... I took... music classes.... and I ...want to be a ...musician.

.....And I even had... an invitation

....for an audition .....at

...the.... Conservatoriu m of... music

.....which is like a once .....in a lifetime of opportunity. ....It doesn't happen ....to a lot of people

....but my father said ..."No way,.... you're going to university....you're gonna study economics"

..... and ..I ended up.... doing that....because.... I felt pressured ...by him


.....stayed there ....for a year... and a half ....and bombed out... completely

....and it... took me ...five years to go.... back to university... and do what(I).... I... was interested

.....in which happened to be... English Literature.

.....But... I was pressured into... doing that ....and I ...failed .....because... I was not happy.

..... (And)...(uh) And I think... inevitably ....all of these children.... are going to fail.
... or grow up... with ....incredible complexes...that their parents.(right).. have given them. (why not?)

...They're not... going to be healthy.

sunyuting1 2008-06-29 06:45
分拆文本：
         
      3.第3册1.Jobs and Education B面29分20秒到43分12.5秒语音文本

三册1B
------
SIDE B
------

Vivian:

Why not put the same standards on ....children as we do on ourselves... you know everyone always says ...."Hey, so, are you happy?"
..... No I got this terrible job, ....I'm stressed out,.... I never get any sleep I don't enjoy life... etcetera,... etcetera.
..... But then doesn't that apply for children as well,.... I mean.... if you're not satisfied ....with your job
.....but you're making lots of money .....but you're still not happy right.
..... And people always say hey ...you got to do something t....hat you like to do... that way you Can do it ....for the rest of your life.
....It's the same with children ....hey ...education is long term as well,
....you know, ....you're going for ....what preschool all the way to,....
.... you know, ....after that .......even more.... for some people.... they got eight more or... twelve more years even after high school...

Bow:

Sure hopefully it's a lifelong, ....lifelong thing...education.

Vivian:

No, you know ...I have a godfather, ...excuse me, ...godfather... who still... educates himself.
.... He is...in his sixties now early sixties.... he's the most intelligent person... that I have ever met.
....He educates himself ....on a daily basis.... you know... he still goes to school..... he still reads books
.....and newspapers.... and he's always trying to ge...t a higher education.... always trying to,
..... you know, ....kind of pick at my brain..... even ...with stimulating conversations.

Luke:

I think the thing is people .....the thing about jobs that's so weird about ....back home is that ......people define themselves..... so much ....by their jobs not.... by who they are..,
..... that's why you have these people ...who were like..... well I happen to work .....for this company or whatever ....and it's like oh...... what's your position
..... and a big drawing point ...for a lot of people if they are trying to get someone... hire someone for a job.., highly qualified person it's the title th....at they're giving.... you will be the executive co...junior executive in charge of marketing...
.... it's a long title that's ridiculous. ....It's just a name... but it gives the people the feeling of status and it's .....like this kind of pay off for everything you've done... and everything a..nd it's just it's bizarre.
.....I think it's like.., ....the first question ....you get asked ....back home is... so what do you do
..... and that's basically it ...and people can sort of decide based on that ...if you're worth talking to.

Daisy:

Exactly, ...yeah,.... that really annoys me.... I have a problem ..with that.

Bow:

I think it's actually ....more here ...in Asia ....the status thing where..... once you enter certain status you can't leave it.
.... I mean..,..... in the States... you can move ....between titles.... here once you are..... stamped with a title.... and status that's pretty much it ....for you and you really can't move into other circles.
....For example ....I have a ...friend ...who was.... he studied architecture.... and art at the same time and..... he came to Korea ....and he teaches architecture..... and he taught architecture... through painting.
.....And it was a very interesting.... way to visualize architecture.... in a two dimensional medium.
.... And they ...didn't accept him here ....and they didn't accept him as...
.... he was.., he had to be either one ...or the other he had to be either an artist ......or an architect he couldn't be both.
.... And I think that's kind of that ....limits a lot of people once .....they finish their higher education and move ...into certain jobs.

Luke:

...I think that's a Korean thing, too...... I think there isn't less competition... within companies.
....There's sort of an understanding ....once you work ....at this company ...you're part of the family,
....I work for this company or ....for this company ....and everybody knows their place ....
.....and it sort of there is more of a team .....a bit of co-operative spirit.
....There's not as much room.... for the advancement.... and there's not as much .....drive to really to really work hard.

Vivian:

Well the reason being.... is because.... eventually you're gonna get up there...... but you always have to start.... from the bottom
..... and even if you come ....from great college or... university ....you start from a certain position ....
.....that they have a name for. .....And then after two years..... you without exception...... unless you really were ....bad apple .....you go to the next level and....
.... so eventually after twenty years ....you gonna hit that... top you know.., ...to see.

Luke:

How does it work? ....Everybody seems to be doing that ....but their salary ...is like .....maybe on average one million ....and six hundred ...or seven hundred a month.
....But they say the living .....standard now people need like .....3 million at least ....with a kid and.... a wife how do they?

Daisy:

.Bonuses... they get bonuses.

Luke:

Still it's not gonna make... it 3 million a month.

Vivian:


No, no, no, no... the bonus is ....actually a lot of the times ....more than ...your salary ......that's what it is you get the..... bonuses the big bonus every couple of months ....
.....or how many times a year that.... are actually many times more than the..
..... And it depends on ....what projects you may be doing ....you get another promotion then.

Luke:

But then and like America ....the key to getting the bonuses ....or stuff ...is not to like....... get out there shake things up....
..... and see what you want to do better ...than everyone else.
.... It's make way ...don't make waves ....just be quiet be patient ...and things will pay off for you.

Vivian:

How about going back to things..... that we are talking ....with Korean society versus the American... work force?
....What do you think about this? ....I notice that ....in Korea ....many people go to university .....
....and pick a subject..... that they're going to study ...a major ...or whatever.
.... For example ....I know people who.... choose.... I'm... I majored in ....architecture... for example
....and so what do you do now ....what company do you work at now
....obviously expecting him to say.... I work in such and such.... architectural company .....or whatever
....but Iow and behold he says ....I work in English education ....or, ...you know,....... something almost the opposite of.... what they majored in.
... I don't understand.... how that is possible.... but here it is.

Bow:

I'll take that on.

Vivian:

Ok.

Bow:

I think actually that..... is what is happening.... with ....so called ...x-generation.... in America
....and I read this article about this kid.... he had graduated high school... with like uh...
.... history major... or something. ....
And he was sitting in a hot tub.... and his apartment was,...
.... you know, ....like a thousand dollars a month apartment... or whatever.
.....And he was complaining ...that he couldn't find.......he couldn't find a job ..in his major.
....And the thing is ....why they call him the x-generation.... is another thing all together
.... the x-generation.... they complain about... things like that ...so they end up working, ...at you know
.....coffee shops ...or whatever ....they can because ...but they are not trying as hard as.... their parents
.....who were the baby boomers .....who did most of them ....if they studied architecture.. or history.
..... They went into those kind of jobs ....for the reason that they wanted their kids.... to have better life.

Vivian:

....So your point is.... the reason ....why people these days.... are running off to other fields
.....is because.... they don't want to... try on their own?

Bow:

.... Because they don't have the same reasons as their parents did or those baby boomers kids before you know...and uh yeh...I think it's all over the world these days it's just like, I think kids are becoming...

Daisy: Lazy?

Bow: Yeh... they're not like I think.... everyone has a gift.., ....they're not like a lot of people......yeh...they are not even trying.
.... They just like gave up on society............. they gave up themselves....... and this is what everybody else ....is doing..... so that's what I'm gonna do
.......um...in Korea I know..... that people ....will choose majors.... because other people....... are doing it.
.... It's popular that's .....not necessarily ....a bad thing.... to not work ...in your major.
....It's just like oh you have education on this.
..... l knew a guy whose major was French...... so I was like ..."Do you speak French?"..... "No," "What do you do?"
...., "I work for, you know, ...a company." ....OK. Great.

Vivian:

Because.... in the American society.......it's either one ....or two things first ok this job ....is very popular it's going to be...
...when I was about to graduate all the teachers were pushing us everyone....
.... if you haven't decided you should seriously consider computers... and computer science,
.... computer programming everyone.... you know.., the salaries gonna be up ....and be one hundred plus....
.... and you know .....and that's ...what they're encouraging... or if you have a talent..
.... I had one of my best friends ...was a genius and,
....you know, ...artistically another one played, ....
....you know, t....he sax like you know... you've never heard.
....And so if you had a specific talent they say .....go toward that.,
....you know, ....go to Julliard or whatever.... or they try to tell you these are gonna be the fields that
....are going to be.... there's gonna be lots of jobs available or....
..... the salaries are going be really big... in four years when you graduate.

Bow:

I give you more specific detail ....about of my own decision ....when I was going to college.. or applying for colleges.
..... I like drawing and ....I like designing things ....so I just thought and Luke had a valid point about the status thing... in America
...and when.... you're in high school.... you look at all those factors.... and architects sounds pretty good,
....you know, ...it's a status position.... and I do like doing the stuff then ..once I started getting into it..
.....um...I really ....like the design ....classes and things like that.... the other stuff I didn't really get into
.....and urn... (Luke: You like the creative aspects).... I like the creative aspects .........but I learned that ....it's not just that in architecture ....you can't just be the designer you got to be..... the business man and ....you gotta be a mathematician.... you gotta be an engineer you gotta be all these things.
..... I didn't wanna do any of that even though like.... I put myself into this position.... that well I'm just go ahead and do it.
.... So I got jobs in architecture.... and some of them I liked.... but then some of them I just realized .....there's gotta be another.... way to fulfill ....I mean I can still use my education ....just not as what people think an architect is.
.... I don't want to be a number in company....... and I don't wanna be drawing other peoples' designs... for the rest of my life.

Daisy:

You're looking for the personal satisfaction.

Bow:

Yeah. And I think that's ....why I am in that situation.... or I didn't take a job.. in my major.

Daisy:

So you slowly strayed.... from what you thought would be...

Luke:

Not necessarily...yeh.......I mean in ....what society thinks ....that you are supposed to ....do you have to be... the architect.
...He is an architect. ....I mean I still consider myself ....an architect ......even though i'm not working in the architectural office.

Vivian:

You know.... I did the same thing...... I mean I wanted to be a musician... and my father made me go to university.....
.. and study economics .....which I just knew..... from the first day... I didn't wanna do.
....Then I eventually went back to university.... and studied English Literature.
... Everybody was asking me like.... why are you studying this,
.....why aren't you doing anything else..... well I had a musical education.... since I was young.... and that's .....what my job is now.... but I chose.... it because one ...I wanted that uh...
......stimulation that you get ...from tertiary education... and I wanted to know things.... I wanted to understand literature.... and to have better understanding of the world.....
.... and society .....and I think that it did definitely ....improve my understanding of those things.
.... But everything is interconnected ....what Bow was saying about...... his architectural degree and the ....way he now applies it... in his life.
....For me my education in English Literature..... has helped me ....write better lyrics ......helped me understand lyrics..... has helped me love reading which is,
.... you know, .....the best education you ever ....gotta get is picking up a book... and reading it.
.....And I think that ....perhaps the x-generation ....what you were talking about..,
....may be they have become.... lazy because I think ....kids are much more privileged ...now than they were 20 years ago
. But maybe it's .....also because these kids ...went to university ...and picked a major like....... history or science or something like that.
... And they know.... they don't wanna be a..... history high school teacher ...or you know ....a scientist in some factory..... punting numbers on a computer.
Maybe they are looking .....for some more personal satisfaction ...in their lives.
...............I think that if that is true .....and they are holding out .....and finding something ....that's gonna make them happy ....that's good.
.... If they're finding something that's gonna pay ...them fix figures... that's not good. .....I hope that people are looking f....or personal satisfaction.

Luke:

I think there's a lot of disenchantment with..,
....with that whole ....for our parents were alright You know you getta a job
... you getta a stable life .....that's how they that's ....how they were raised that's... what they knew for people...
.... there is a bit of a line.... between people our age...... There's the get out there...... and go getters that are always
.... so chipper and.... just wanna they are always motivated....., they are always happy....... and they just wanna get to the top
....everyday is sunny day.... Yeh.......and then they're are other people........... who are just like there is other things..... to life than..... just like climbing the corporate ladder then,...
...... you know, until you forty and then, you know, ...divorcing your wife getting a sports.....

car blowing your brains out or something.

Vivian:

I know another point that.... can be made..... if you look at Korean culture too.
.....You see in general not necessarily ....because of education..... but these families .......with children .....that stay..... with the family way...... beyond the years that we would.... stay with our family.
.... I was.., everyone always says.... you know even 5 years ago,
..... "Why are you ....so young and living alone?"
..... they think I was disgraced .....by my family or for some reason, .....hey you turn eighteen you're out of the house...
.....in early foreign society you're a bum.., .....you're literally a bum.... and eating off your parents you know.

Daisy:

If you still living ....with your parents.

Vivian:

Yeh, you're disgraced from.... the neighborhood.....
they always say ....hey so and ......s...o's kids still ....in the house and.... they are 20-something
.... but the culture's different y....es I understand.
....But I was just thinking another aspect to tha....t is recently in the news .....if you've been listening you ...
....hear about all these..... universities turning in these figures....
.... where they have so many students..... but nobody in the classroom reason being one,
.....because these kids don't .....want to get out there they.... don't know..... what to do..... once they get out there and second,
... well there's a lack of job ....because no one's filling in, ...you know ....the jobs there's not enough jobs...... f..or them.... after they graduate ....so they instead ...
....of staying five ....or six years they take off a year,.... and then come back ...for 6 months......... and then they take off .....another year because..... they try to extend.... that um that eventual, y...ou know gotta get out... in the society thing.


sunyuting1 2008-07-01 07:04
分拆文本：
         
      3.第3册1.Jobs and Education B面29分20秒到43分12.5秒语音文本

三册1B
------
SIDE B
------

（原文错误修改文本）

Vivian:

Why not put the same standards on ....children as we do on ourselves... you know everyone always says ...."Hey, .....so,... are you happy?"
..... No I got this terrible job, ....I'm stressed out,.(mm)... I never get any sleep I don't enjoy life... etcetera,... etcetera.
..... But then .....doesn't  that.... apply for... children as well,.... I mean.... if you're not satisfied ....with your job
.....but you're making ....lots of money .(mm)....but you're still not happy right.(right)
..... And people always say hey
...you got to do something t....hat you like to do... that way you Can do it ....for the rest of your life. (mm)
....It's the same with children ....hey
...education is.... long term as well,
....you know,(haha) ....you're going for ....what preschool all the way to,.(yes,mm)...
.... you know, ....after that .......even more.... for some people.(mm)... they got eight more or... twelve more years ....even after high school...

Bow:

Sure hopefully it's a lifelong, ....lifelong thing...education.(mm)

Vivian:

No, you know ...I have a godfather, ...excuse me,
..(uh).godfather... who still... educates himself.
.... He is...in his sixties..... now early sixties
.... he's the most intelligent person... that I have ever met.
....He educates himself ....on a daily basis(mm).... you know... he still goes to school..... he still reads books
.....and newspapers.... and he's ...always trying to get ...a higher education..(mm).. always trying to,
..... you know, ....kind of pick at my brain(mm)..... even ...with stimulating conversations.

Luke:

I think ... the thing is people .....the thing about jobs that's so weird about ....back home is that ......people define themselves..... so much ....by their jobs not.... by who they are..,(mm)(it's that is yoou are..)
..... that's why you have these people ...who were like..... well I happen to work .....for this company or... whatever ....and it's like oh...... what's your position
..... and ...a big drawing point ...for a lot of people...... if they are... trying to..(thing to)... get someone... hire someone for a job.., highly qualified person
..... it's the title th....at they're giving(right).... you will be the executive
....cojunior executive.... in charge of marketing..(mm).
.... it's a long title that's ridiculous. ....It's just a name... but it gives the people the feeling of status and it's .....like this kind of pay off
.....for everything you've done... and everything ...and.... it's just ...it's bizarre. (mm)
.....I think... it's like.., ....the first question ....you get asked ....back home is... so what do you do
..... and that's...(and that's)... basically it ...and people can sort of decide based on that
...if you're worth talking to.

Daisy:

Exactly, .(mm)..yeah,..(that).. that really annoys me.... I have a problem ..with that.

Bow:

I think it's actually (uh)....more here ...in Asia ....the status ...thing where
..... once you ...enter certain ...status ...you can't leave it.
.... I mean..,...(mm).. in the States... you can.(wow ... ).. move ....between titles.... here.. once you are..... stamped with a title.... and status that's ...pretty much it ....for you and ...you really can't move ....into other circles.(mm)
....For example
....I have a
...friend
...who was.... he studied architecture.... and
....art ....at the same time and...(he).. he came to Korea ....and he teaches architecture
..... and.(uh).. he taught architecture... through painting.
.....And... it was a very interesting.... way to... visualize architecture.... in a ...two dimensional ..(um).medium.
.... And(um)... they didn't accept him here ....and they didn't ...accept him as...
.... he was.., he had to be either one ...or the other
.....he had to be... either an artist ......or an architect... he couldn't be both.
.... And I think.... that's kind of that ....limits a lot of(mm)
.... people once .....they finish their ...higher education and move ...into certain jobs.(mm...)..(mm)

Luke:

...I think that's... a Korean thing, too...... I think there isn't less competition... within companies.
....There's sort of an understanding ....once you work ....at this company ...you're part of the family, (right)
....I work for this company or ....for this company
....and everybody... knows their place ....
.....and...(and) it sort of ...there is more of a team
.....a bit of co-operative spirit.
....There's not as much room.... for the advancement
.... and there's not as much .....drive to really.... to really work hard.(mm)

Vivian:

Well the reason being.... is because.
... eventually you're... gonna get up ...there but
... you always have to start.... from the bottom
..... and even if you come ....from great college or... university
....you start ...from a certain position ....(you...you...)
.....that they have a name for.
.....And then after two years..... you
.... without exception..(auh).... unless you really were (uh)....bad apple
.....you go to the next level and....
.... so ...eventually ...after twenty years ....you gonna hit that
... top you know.., (the see)...to see.(mm    )

Luke:

How does it work? ....Everybody seems to be doing that
....but their salary ...is like (uh).....maybe on average one million ....and six hundred ...or seven hundred a month. (uh)
....But they say the living .....standard now people need like(more.he is ever right)
.....3 million at least ....with a kid and.... a wife ...how do they?

Daisy:

.Bonuses... they get bonuses.

Luke:

Still it's not gonna make... it 3 million a month.

Vivian:


No, no, no, no... the bonus is ....actually ....a lot of the times ....more than ...your salary ......that's what it is you get the
..... bonuses ...the big bonus ...every couple of months ....(mm)
.....or how many times a year that
.... are actually... many times more than the..(right right)
..... And it depends on ....what projects you may be doing ....you get another promotion then.

Luke:

But then ....and like America ....the key to... getting the bonuses ....or stuff
...is not to... like....... get out there... shake things up.(yeah).(right)..
..... and see what you want to do better ...than everyone else.(exacly)
.... It's make way ...don't make waves
....just be quiet be patient .(mm)..and things will... pay off for you.

Vivian:

(well)...How about going back to things..... that we are talking ....with Korean society ...versus the American... work force?
....(uh)What do you think about this? ....I notice that
....in Korea
....many people ...go to university ....(and).....and pick.... a subject(um)
..... that they're going to study ...a major ...or whatever.(um)
.... For example ....I know people who
.... choose.... I'm... I majored in
....architecture... for example
....and ...so what do you... do now ....what company do you ...work at now
....obviously expecting him to say.... I work in such and such.... architectural company .....or whatever
....but... I  low and behold he says ....I work in... English education ....or, ...you know,....... something almost the... opposite of.... what they majored in.
... I don't understand.... how that is possible.
...(I) ...but here... it is.

Bow:

I'll take ...that on.

Vivian:

Ok.

Bow:

(um)I think actually that..... is
.... what is happening.... with (um).
...so called(uh)
...x-generation.(mm)... in America
....and.(uh).. I read this article about this kid.... he had graduated high school... ....with like uh...
.... history major... or something. ....
.....And he was sitting.... in a hot tub
.... and his apartment was,...
.... you know, ....like a
.... thousand dollars... a month apartment... or whatever.
.....And he was complaining ...that he couldn't find
.......he couldn't... find a job ..in his major. (mm)
....And the thing is ....why they call him.... the x-generation.... is(um)
.... another thing all together... the x-generation
.... they... complain about... things like that
...so they(they) end up working, ...at you know
.....coffee shops .(right)..or whatever
....they can because ...but they are not trying as hard as.... their parents
.....who were the baby boomers (ahah)
.....who... did ...most of them ....if they studied architecture.. or history.
..... They went into those ...kind of jobs ....for the reason that... they wanted their kids.... to have better... life.

Vivian:

....So ...your point is(uh)
.... the reason ....why people these days.... are
....running off to other... fields
.....is because.... they don't... want to.try on... their own?

Bow:

.... Because they don't have... the same reasons... as their parents did.... or those baby boomers kids... before(mm) ...you know...and uh ...yeh...I think it's (it's)all over the world these days... it's just like,.... I think kids are becoming...

Daisy:

Lazy?

Bow:

Yeh... they're not like... I think.... everyone has a gift.(mm)., ....they're not like
.....a lot of people.(looking fou).....yeh...they are not even trying.(mm)
.... They just like gave up on society.....they gave up themselves....... and
......this is what everybody else ....is doing..... so(mm)
.... that's what I'm gonna do
.......um...in Korea ...I know..... that people ....will choose majors.... because
......other people....... are doing it..... It's popular(mm)(mm)
..... that's .....not necessarily ....a bad thing.... to not ...work ...in your major.
....It's just like ....oh you have education on this.
..... l knew a guy ....whose... major was French(mm)
...... so... I was like ..."Do you speak French?"..... "No,"(hey hey hey...)
..... "What do you do?"
...., "I work for, ....you know, ...a company."
....OK. Great.(ha..)

Vivian:

Because
...(becuse). in the American society
.......it's either one ....or ....two things ...first
.... ok this job ....is very popular it's going to be...
...when I ...was about to graduate all.... the teachers were
....pushing us ...everyone....
.... if you haven't ....decided you should seriously consider
.... computers... and computer science,
.... (sciece) computer programming ...everyone
.... you know..,(becuse techer)
..... the salaries gonna be up ....and be..... one hundred plus....
.... and you know .....and that's ...what they're encouraging... or
... if you have a talent..
.... I had ...one of my best friends (uh)...was a genius and,
....you know, ...artistically ....another one played, ....
....you know,... the sax like
.... you know... you've never heard.
....And so.... if you had ....a specific talent ....they say .....go toward that.,
....you know, ....go to Julliard ...or whatever
.... or ...they try to tell you ....these are gonna... be the fields that
....are going to be
.... there's gonna be... lots of jobs... available ...or....
..... the salaries ...are going be... really big(mm)... in four years ....when you graduate.

Bow:

I give you.(uh)... more specific detail (mm)
....about of my own decision
....when I was going to.(uh)... college.. or applying... for colleges.
..... I like drawing and ....I like ....designing things
....so I just thought ...and Luke had a valid point about... the status thing... in America
...and (uh)
...when you're in high school.... you look at all those factors.... and architects sounds ...pretty good,
....you know, ...it's a status position
.... and I do like ...doing the stuff then
.....once I started ...getting into it..
.....um...I really... (I) like... the design
....classes and things like that.... the other stuff ...I didn't really get into (mm)
.....and urn... (Luke: You like... the creative aspects)
.... I like the creative aspects ......(but I)...but I learned that
....it's not just that... in architecture ..(you not)....you can't... just be the designer(sure) ....you got to be..(mm)... the business man and ....you gotta be a mathematician.... you gotta be an engineer (mm)....you gotta be all these things.
..... I didn't wanna do any of that... even though like.... I put myself into this position.... that
.... well I'm just ...go ahead and do it.
.... So ....I got jobs in architecture
.... and (uh)...some of them I liked.... but then
...some of them... I just realized
.....there's gotta be
.... another.... way to fulfill
.....I mean... I ...(I) can still use my ...education ....just not as
.... what ....people think an architect is.( right))
.... I don't want to be... a number in company
... and I don't wanna be ...drawing other peoples' designs
... for the rest of my life.

Daisy:

You're looking ....for the personal ...satisfaction.

Bow:

Yeah. ....And I ...think that's ....why
.....(um)...(I) I am in that situation(mm).... or I didn't take a job
.. .. in (mm)..my major.(mm)

Daisy:

So... you slowly strayed.... from what you... thought would be...

Luke:

Not (not)necessarily...yeh.......I mean in
....what society thinks (mm)....that.... you are supposed to ....do you have to be... the architect.
...He is an architect.(right)(haha)
....I mean ...I still consider myself ....an architect ......even though ..i'm not .....working.... in the architectural ...office.

Vivian:

(well)...You know.... I did the same thing...... I mean I wanted to be a musician... and my father... made me go to
...university.....
.. and study economics .....which I just knew..... from the first day... I didn't wanna do.
....Then I eventually.... went back... to university.... and studied English Literature.
... Everybody was asking me... like.... why are you studying ...this,
.....why aren't you doing ...anything else..... well..(I I,). I had ...a musical education.... since I was young
.... and that's .....what my job is ...now.... but
....(I'm) I chose it.... because one ...I wanted... that uh...
......stimulation
..... that ..you get from ...tertiary education
... and I ...wanted to(um)...( to) know things...(so) I wanted to ...understand
.... literature.... and to have better understanding of the world.....
.... and society .....and I think that
.... it did definitely ....improve my understanding of ....those things.
.... But everything.... is ...interconnected ....what... Bow was saying about...... his
....architectural degree
.... and ..the way ....he now... applies it... in his life.
....For me ...(my ,my)....my education..... in English Literature
..... has helped me ....write ...better lyrics (mm)......helped me understand lyrics..... has helped me... love reading... which is,
.... you know, .....the best education you ever ....gotta get is picking up a book... and reading it.
....(um).And..(um)... I think that ....perhaps the x-generation ....what you were talking about..,
....may be they... have become.... lazy because I think ....kids are much more privileged ...now than ...they were 20 years ago
. But maybe it's .....also because... these kids ...went to university ...and picked a major like....... history or... science or something... like that.
... And they know.... they don't ...wanna be a..... history high school teacher ...or... you know(uh) ....a scientist in some factory..... punting numbers on a computer.
Maybe they ....are... looking .....for some more personal satisfaction ...in their lives. (mm)
....I think that if that is true .....and they are holding out .....and finding something ....that's gonna make them happy(haha) ....that's good.
.... If they're finding something ...that's gonna pay ...them fix figures... that's not good.(mm) .....I hope... that people are looking(yeah)... for personal satisfaction.

Luke:

I think there's... a lot of disenchantment with..,
....with that whole .(they)...for our parents were alright You know you getta a job
... you getta a stable life .....that's how they that's ....how they were raised that's... what they knew... for people...
.... there is a... bit of a line.... between people our age...... There's the get out there...... and go getters that are always
.... so chipper and.... just wanna they ...are always motivated....., they are always happy....... and they just wanna... get to the top (think about)
....everyday is sunny day.... Yeh.......and then they're are other people........... who are just like there is other things..... to life than..... just like... climbing the corporate ladder then,(mm)...
...... you know, ...until you forty ..and then, you know, ...divorcing your wife getting a sports.....

car blowing your brains(wow)... out or something.(hahaha....)

Vivian:

I know another point that.... can be made..... if you look at Korean culture too.
.....You see ....in general ...not necessarily ....because of education..... but ...these families .......with children .....that... stay with the... family way...... beyond the years that we would(mm).... stay with our family.
.... I was.., everyone always says.... you know ...even 5 years ago,
..... "Why are you ....so young ...and living alone?"
..... they think... I was disgraced .....by my family or... for some reason, .....hey ....you turn eighteen you're... out of the house...(exacly)
.....in(in)... early foreign society you're a bum.., (yeah).....you're literally a bum.... .....and eating off your parents... you know.

Daisy:

If you still living ....with your parents.

Vivian:

Yeh, you're disgraced... from the neighborhood.....(but)
they always say ....hey so and ......s...o's kids still ....in the house and.... they are 20-something(is  that it is lot........)
.... but the culture's different yes... I understand.
....But I was just thinking another aspect to tha....t is recently in the news .....if you've been listening you ...
....hear about all these..... universities....(um)... turning in these figures....
.... where they have.... so many students..... but nobody ...in the classroom reason being one, (mm)
.....because ...these kids don't .....want to get out there... they.... don't know..... what to do..... once they get out there and second,
... well there's a lack of job ....because no one's... filling in
, ...you know ....the jobs there's... not enough jobs...... for them.... after they graduate ....so they instead ...
....of staying five ....or six years they take off a year,.... and then come back ...for 6 months......... and then they take off .....another year because..(uh)... they try to extend.(um)... that um that eventual, ....you know ...gotta get out.(mm).. in the society thing.

sunyuting1 2008-07-02 06:34
分拆文本：

      4.  第3册1.Jobs and EducationB面43分12.5秒到58分18秒结束的语音文本

Luke:

But another thing is you gotta ...realize that ...as time goes on ...you're not just static entity,
.... you know,.... if you structure education ...out over time ...like the way ...I was thinking ...and the person ....I was... when I first started university
....(Vivian: it changes).... it's totally I'm totally ....different person.... and can I qualify ...a person,
.....can I ....qualify the person ....that I was.... seven years ago.... to make all the decisions.... for what I'm going to do... for rest of my life.
....I was, ....I was a bonehead ...back then..... I'm still not much.... better now ....but ....I wouldn't trust the person ....I was then..... to make the decisions ...for who I am today.

Vivian:

Even the person you are .....in one year ....you change dramatically .....and then .....7 years ....think about it.
....(Luke: sure) ....and for me even..... when I first went ....into school again ....it was just like.... I was just living a totally ....different life ....than everyone else.... my age.... that.... school was not for me ....at that time,
.... you know,.... it was everyone was.... experiencing freedom and ....having the time away from their parents.... for the first time ...partying every night.
....I was partying too but .....I also had ....a full time job....
.... (Luke: different responsibility) ....exactly, ....I just had ....different ambitions ......it was so much different from .....my fellow,
....you know, ....classmates so.... it just was not right ....for me... at that time.
....I did want the education but .....it just seemed like that I would be..... pushed backward almost .....being influenced .....by the people.... that were next to me
....and I was just thinking ....I think I wanna come back ...after... I have matured a little more myself,
.... second, .....when I have more clear grasp of ......what I wanna study and......
.... that I do want to study ....and I maybe then ....I would be able to concentrate .....a bit more on my studies.
....I knew then already that .....I wanted to study seriously .....and not be parting every night ....and studying ...in the day time..... I wanted to just ...study and work.

Luke:

Even if you know.... what you want to study ...at a certain time.
...(Vivian: It changes) ....the reality ...and... so does the technology ....and the work force .......and what's available ....out there ...and things ....move so fast these days..... that there's no such things as job .....as security as our parents... knew or whatever.
....So the bottom line is, ...yeh,.... to be taught the most valuable..... thing you can get .....from any school education .....is how to be well rounded
....and how to be able to move.... and adapt ....and how to just have ....a whole bunch of ....different strengths....
.... and.... be able to change at will ....whenever ...something changes.... in the work force..... or in what job's demand.

Vivian:

So virtually.... like anything else in life.... education is..... another ....complicated thing ....because ....you can't ....do one ....and not.... complete the other.
..... I mean ....we were just talking about earlier ....how you want to ....find peace ....with yourself
......so you can..... go after the topic ....or the major ....that you want to study in school.....
..... and what will make you happy.... and yet.... now you have to be well.... rounded still..... to keep your job
....and to keep that .....you know security.... in your job.... and it's not as easy as pie.

Daisy:

....Well, .....I think that the really important.... issue here is that ........your education .....is not just something..... you get from college
.... that it's also .....an ongoing process .....whether that be in your job .....or in your life
..... and I personally ......I hope to call myself a student ......until the day I die.
..... I think .....the more you learn..... the less you realize..... you know
..... and.... it just encourages ......you to continue ......that education.... and to learn more.

Vivian:

And if you are .....a well developed person .....and you get along..... well with the people
..... that around you and stuff.... you know ....as we were talking about earlier .....the ....street wise ....kind of person.
.....You, ....you .....further yourself.... in the work place as well .....because ....if you look at people who
.....aren't so.... you know .....don't get along ....so well with people around them....... then you can succeed as far just.... because you're talented.

Bow:

But to reiterate ....what Daisy was saying .....is that um...
....I want to make this point. ......You don't necessarily ...have to go to college.... to get an education.
....And I will give you .....another example ....that when I was ...living in Korea.... I had decided to.......... stop living in Korea.... and go to... graduate school.
....And the reason was ....because I..... believed ....all that stuff ....like you have to educate .....yourself you have to go... to institution.
.....So I went to..... the graduate school..... that I was going to apply to... it was an art school
..... and I met ....some of the students in there ....and they were so .....colorless
.....and I thought they would be ....so great because..... they are artists..... and stuff but they were all .....kind of they had the same kind of..... M.O. as ...just like any kind of student.
....Whereas the people that.... I meet here in Korea ....are so much more colorful ........and I learn so much more from them ...and like ....or other people like.... that come here from..... different countries of the world I learn..... so much more than.... having that paper.

Vivian:

Well ....you know you gotta think that .....being in a foreign country .....and you have so many people .....from different lands... come here.
....Those people that came here ....they're not run of the mill... kind of people..,
.....they're.., .....first they gotta have guts ...to go somewhere else and.... they were interested.... in learning more ....and growing ...and developing ...within themselves.

Bow:

...Yes, ...I agree and also.... I thought. .....I'm not gonna to graduate school..... and I'm gonna make the world my class room.
.....And another way would be..... this is good .....base to travel to.... other countries .....and learn about other cultures ....which I really..... haven't got the chance.... to do but
....again you can still ....do that without.... visually seeing that .....a little bit ....like vicariously ....through other people ...that do
.... and go and have these experiences .....you know like people.... that were there they might ......think about going to Thailand ....but
.... would they really know why .....would they have a lot details of.... like uh,
.....why they would wanna go there..... or do they just wanna go to like.... cool beach and do drugs ...you know.

Daisy:

Well you know ....I agree with everything.... both of you have just said.... but I also think .....an education cannot be replaced
....if you enter ....that institution or.... that education ....for the right reasons.
....I don't think ...the right reason ....are going ....for the job ....on the Wall street ..or the six figured salaries.
.... But if you go into that institution.... and you're mentally prepared.... for what you're going to learn and you're using..... that information.... in a practical way
... not just in the.... theoretical way.... that society ...has told you... should use it.
....Then I don't think there's anything ...that can ...replace ...that type of education.

Bow:

We might all agree at that point. ....But then again.... like... it still is the fact that people .....need that piece of paper to get on.

Vivian:

Yeh reality bites.

Daisy:

That's true. ....I think you do ...if you want to .....be in a profession... that requires.... you to have a science degree
....or that requires you..... to have a degree in psychiatry ....or whatever of course it's necessary.

Vivian:
..
....Or you just can't ....get beyond the barrier.... there are still people ....who practice and.... who work in those field..... they may not have a piece of paper..... but most of time in general you need it.

Daisy:

Right,..... but I specifically talking about .....professions like psychiatry.
....I mean you can.., ....because psychiatrist unless you ....have 7 year degree.

Vivian:

Unless you're Dear Abby.

Bow:

Also ....I think this is.... philosophy of the x-generation... which is while I go
... bust my butt for 4 years ......and get my degree
.... but now I'm gonna be a bartender ....because it's more fun ...and if I like lose my job.

Vivian:

You still have security.

Bow:

Yes. I just can go back.... and become a history teacher.

Daisy:

I don't see anything bad... with that though.

Bow:

But I don't either.

Daisy:

I don't see anything wrong with it.

Bow:

No, I'm not saying it in negative way.

Vivian:

It's a something insurance.

Daisy:

No.

Bow:

I am just stating the fact.

Daisy:

I think so a bartender ....with university degree ....that has a broad knowledge ...of history or
....you know psychology ....would be a fascinating bartender.
I'd go to that bar.
.... He probably make ...a good living owning a bar..... and tending that bar..... I don't see any problem with that.

Bow:

The job bartender is derogatory.

Vivian:

But any job.

Bow:

Another job ....that is outside of your major.

Daisy:

That's the thing.... I think that ....it doesn't matter... what you study
....that education ....somewhere down the track.... is going to benefit you .....as long as you have approached ....that education.... with open mind ....and you've actually gained ...something from it.

Vivian:

And also.... you don't have to ....necessarily have.... I mean.... after you have that piece of paper you are still educating yoursel...f not necessarily.... by going to school.... but there are many people ....who educate themselves like I said ......my godfather to the States.... still educates himself ....and is always looking for... a new... you know.

Daisy:

You know that's really..... important too, .....furthering your education.... and constantly .....wanting to get.... increase your knowledge
....but I also think that ....you know .....if we just approach... our education... in a different way ....without the capitalistic ideals ....behind it.... and thinking..... or encouraging.... your children ....to go to school ....for different reasons..... not because you have to win ....not because you have to be this or .......do that ....just for the reason ...that education ....was originally created.... by Greek philosophers
....you know ...to improve.... you as human being.... to grasp the higher faculties.... and get something from them.

Vivian:

And maybe before .....we close since we talked about ....early education
.... you know..... later on education.... life now and work.
.... Maybe we should touch base..... before we end the conversation....
.... on you know..... education in your later years... you know.... these days you hear a lot about people ....going back to get that piece of paper
.....or you know still like..... I said my ....godfather still.... I mean.... he has had that piece of paper... but still continuing to
....you know strive for more ....and higher education.
...Do you think ...you still be ....studying and.... maybe groping more.... knowledge?

Luke:

I don't know if I'll be ....academically studying.... I might be.... I'd like to leave the option open.
.... I wouldn't be.... I wouldn't feel ashamed.... or ...like I ....was going backwards.... by going back to school ...if it was something.... that interested me.
... but I just think that hopefully ....the kind of jobs I'll ....end up with.... will allow me to..... explore different avenues.
.... and to grow in different ways.... and to become more enlightened.... with different things and ....
....I mean ....that's kind of that's hopefully ..what it is...
.... they say ...you know ....the best way to be successful ....and happy is to find something ...you really like ....and figure out a way to get ...paid for.... it and if you can do that... that's pretty good.

Daisy:

You know I ....definitely agree.... with everything you just said I.... hopefully ...I want to always.... be a student ...whether it be.... at an academic institution.... or student of life
....but I ....believe.... when I was last at ....college I.... took a few philosophy classes.... and I loved them ...........and I think... that's my next step,
....I'm gonna go back ....and I'm gonna get another degree... in philosophy ....not for my job .....just because ....I love it ...and that is.... I think the essential... reason... for studying.
... If you love it ...and you are interested it... then go and study it.

Vivian:

Right..... I definitely agree, ....I found that I ....am very satisfied ....oh I wanna learn this or.... these days I wanna take lessons doing this
....because it satisfies me ....not because ....it's going to get me.... higher up on that chain,
....It will eventually, ...It satisfies me .....and gives me some sort of ....personal gratification.....
.... being able to... learn another... you know ....trade ...or ...learning more... knowledge.

Luke:

I think of a lot of employers ....when they are looking to hire someone.... the way that everyone these days ....is so... over qualified... for so many jobs.

People have gone to school ....for so long ...and have learned ...so much about ....so many jobs about their fields... and stuff so specialized.
.... I think the really difference ....is the edge you'll get ....is this is being well rounded interesting person.
I mean no one wants to work.... with someone ....whose the best and very intelligent ....and very hard working
.... but has ...a lame personality.... and is a total deadbeat... to hang out with,
....You work with your co-workers ....you wanna be to able to get ...along with them you.... wanna be stimulated ...by them you wanna be ...interested ...in them... you have to work ...with the people,

Bow:

I disagree kind of a little bit. .....Yes ...at some points I do ...agree depending... on the job
... what if it's like ...NASA,... I don't really want ....or like heart surgeon ....I don't want the... guy joking around.

Luke:

The majority of jobs ..I'm saying.

Bow:

The lame jobs ...like accounting and stuff.

Daisy:

I don't know.... a heart surgeon with a ....humorous ...personality.

Bow:

Ok, ....Maybe like ...when he's not.,,

Vivian:

Squeezing your heart,

Bow:

Maybe outside ...or something..,.... Hey you want hear a joke..... You got three days to live.

Daisy:

Yeh with scalpel in your head.

Bow:

Just kidding.

Luke:

I mean.... how much of your time ....of course ...part of whole... work thing and having.... a cohesion in any work.... environment is you do you work ....for a bit ...and you work well together
.... but then you're not working ....when you get to kick back a bit
....can you have anything to talk about.... can you hang out it's cool ....can you go..... for some beers after a hard days' work.
.... I am sure guys ...from NASA ....go out for beers ..after a hard days' work.

Daisy:

That has to be ....in any working environment ....whether it be NASA ...or whether it be this studio here some kind of camaraderie.. between people.
.... And you know ....that is something that life ....and living ....and relationships ...can only give you.
....So I think that.... you know.... in closing.... that ....an education is irreplaceable ....and it's very important ....but we have to.... look at the reasons ....why we are educating ourselves... once again.

Vivian:

Right.

Luke:

And also ....try to foster ....in our own children ....and in our schools ....and in our teachers.... an attitude of.... not competition ....with another not..... by route appreciation ....and learning of things
....but an absorbing of things.... internalization of ideas.... and an ability to interact
........ and cooperate with your peers ....throughout all stages of growth ....and throughout education ....
....because those are the values.... that are really ....those are the traits ...that really valued
....when you are in an actual job's ...situation ....and which will ....benefit everyone .......like all of humanity... in the long run,

Vivian:

Ok.... and also you know... I think.... and foster ....other ways... to educate them ...like ...
....don't make them lazy... like we're talking about x-generation..... encourage them.... to have part time jobs ....while they're at school .....so that they learn.... other lessons as well.

Bow:

Um and also ....I think that ....our views today.... I wanna say ....this to our listeners... that
.... you know our views ....have been really pretty ..much liberal.
....You know a lot of conservative ....views out there people will say ....
.....no this is the right way ....and it really is ...up to you... these are our opinions ...
....and uh, ....you know everyone... has different opinions ....this group ...here just has more ....I think liberal opinions... than other people.

Luke:

Yes ....but if truth ...really be known. ...We're right.

Daisy:

Amen.

Vivian:

We hope.

Luke:

We know it.

sunyuting1 2008-07-03 17:25
压码阅读的技巧：
经过压码整理文本和压码听懂语音（压码心中注音或压码心中听写）练习，大脑留下了较深的语音、文本对应关系的印记，这时是练习压码阅读理解、记忆的较佳时机。
  眼睛看着文本，心中慢慢回想语音，你这时可以在心中回想压码抄写或者进行压码注音（一次只练习一种，练习一个语音过程中，不要心中压码抄写和心中压码注音交叉使用，再练习一遍以后可以换一种练习，也可以），这时练习较透彻的一种理解记忆方式，也是最后检验学习效果的方法。
        练习基本上是越慢越好，就算20%速度吧，采用腹部用力下沉的呼气来压码回想语音，也就是压码听清的回想方法，可以保持较慢的速度来回想语音，做到语音浑厚、圆润、富有表情和节奏感，一口气慢慢回想一个完整的句子，注意体会腹部呼吸的感觉，身体在慢慢发生变化，正是消化吸收的过程和理解记忆的表现形式，练习的过程正好和整理分解文本相反和一个基本词组合成的过程，练习一个句子，你尽管用力调整呼吸即可，遇到句子连接词即可停止，你这时就可以采用多重压码的方法，进行快速回想刚才练习的慢句子了，一个比较长的句子如果你可以快速、准确互想起来，基本就可以说明你已经理解记忆住了。不能回想出来，或者比较复杂的单词不能回想出来拼写，你可以过回想几遍，不能理解的句子你也可以多回想几遍以便帮助理解。
   


sunyuting1 2008-07-03 17:41
因为对于一些单词的用法和表达方式，我们有自己的偏向和爱好所形成的习惯，如果让我们自己来说也没有问题，但是由于习惯的问题，往往喜欢自己轻车熟路的表达方式，这样你对于复杂的事务表达就比较单一，或者有时不能表达自己复杂的想法，只要你进行慢慢回想语音，调动了你的大脑深层记忆理解功能，慢慢自然消化吸收功能就会大大加强，记忆主要是通过多重压码回想进行检验的，同时多重压码回想也是理解的主要途径。你练习一个段落的几个长句子以后，可以自己完整段落压码回想，富有表情和语气节奏的多个句子回想，对于你的理解和记忆会有很大的帮助。对于理解没有和语音、文本捆绑在一起的理解往往是记忆短暂的，音形意三者结合的压码理解记忆往往是比较长远的。特别是一些感觉理解和记忆效果比较弱的学员，更要注重练习的效果和技巧，提高有效学习时间，不一定是练习的快，练习的慢有时反而会产生快的效果。


sunyuting1 2008-07-03 17:56
完全消化吸收英语是一个重要的基础练习，很多学员以前可能十多年都没有实现过一次，没有过这样的感觉。所以理解总是感觉似懂非懂的状态，这对于学习英语特别是自己的感觉会有很大的打击，也是对应于必能保持长期兴趣的原因所在。
英语练习你要反复进行，慢点再慢点，有时感觉已经完全消化吸收了，往往很多的时候，消化吸收的还不够彻底。没有完全变为自己的英语能力。
英语思维实际上是很容易实现的，最主要的不是英语思维，而是英语高速意识流的实现，这时进入压码态的一种表现。通过压码法练习自然消化吸收的英语和传统学习法翻译理解、背诵记忆的效果完全是两种不同的感觉和状态。其实大家学习《你好美国》是很快就学会自然说简单英语口语的方式，可以学会精确的语法表达方式，而学习《听说大突破》则是你想说口语的一种冲动，基本上练习一个分拆语音，就可以达到这样的学习效果。她实际上的关键就是将英语的书面语言通过分拆成简短的碎句子加入一些废话的途径来实现的，领悟了这一点，你就可以看着大量的网络搜索的书面语言自己进行说复杂口语，没有障碍，进入英语讨论的高级英语基本能力。
    就像骑自行车慢速比赛一样，规定10米距离，谁最后一名到达距离，才是第一名。细细品味，回味无穷噢！


sunyuting1 2008-07-03 21:28
分拆文本：

      4.  第3册1.Jobs and EducationB面43分12.5秒到58分18秒结束的语音文本


（原文错误修改文本）
Luke:

But another thing is you gotta ...realize that
...as time goes on ...you're not
....(you not)...just static entity,
.... you know,(mm).... if you structure education ...out over time ...like
.......(way).. the way ...I was thinking ...and the person ....I was... when I... first started university
....(Vivian: it changes).
... it's totally I'm totally ....different person
...(and). and can I qualify ...a person,
.....can I ....qualify the person ....that I was.
... seven years ago.... to make all the decisions.
... for what I'm going to do... for rest of my life. (right)(I was)
....I was, ....I was a bonehead ...back then.(haha..).
... I'm still not much.... better now .(haha..)...but
..(I wouldn't)..I wouldn't trust the person
....I was then..... to make the decisions ...for who I am today.

Vivian:

Even the person you are .....in one year
....you change dramatically
.....and then .....7 years ....think about it.
....(Luke: sure) ....and (me) for me even
..... when I first went ....into school again
....it was just like.
... I was just living a totally ....different life
....than everyone else.... my age
.... that.... school was not for me ....at that time,
.... you know,.... it was... everyone was
....(was).. experiencing freedom and
....having the time away... from their parents..
.. for the first time ...partying every night.
....I was partying too but .....I also had
....a full time job....(haha)
.... (Luke: different ....responsibility)
....exactly, ....I just had ....different ambitions
......it was so much different from .....my fellow,
....you know, ....classmates so.
... it just was not right ....for me... at that time.
....I did want the education but .....it just seemed like that I would be..... pushed backward almost
.....being influenced .....by the people.... that were next to me
....and I was just thinking
....I think.. I wanna come back ...after
... I have matured a little more myself,
.... second, ....(when I) .(when).
....when I have more clear grasp of
......what I wanna study and......(mm)
.... that I do want to study
....and I maybe then ....I would be able to concentrate
.....a bit more on my studies.
....I knew then already that
.....I wanted to study seriously
.....and not be parting every night
....and studying ...in the day time..... I wanted to.
.. just ...study and work.

Luke:

Even if you know.... what you want to study ...at a certain time. (mm)
...(Vivian: It changes)
....the reality (the reality)
....  (and)...and... so does the technology
....and the work force .......and what's available
....out there ...and things ....move so fast these days.
.... that there's no such things as job
.....as security as
...(as) our parents... knew or whatever. (mm)
....So the bottom line is,
...yeh,.... to be taught the most valuable.
.... thing you can get
.....from any school education
.....is how to be well rounded
....and how to  (mm) ( how to).. be able to move.... and adapt(mm)
....and how to just have ....a whole bunch of ....different strengths..(mm)..
.... and...(and). be able to change.. at will ....whenever ...something changes.... in the work force
..... or in( in in) what ..job's demand.

Vivian:

So virtually.... like anything else in life
.... education is..... another
....complicated thing ....because .
...you can't ....do one ....and not.... complete the other.
..... I mean ....we were just talking about earlier ....how you want to
...(um)....find peace ....with yourself
......so you can..... go after.. the topic
....or the major ....that you want to study... in school.....
..... and (what) what will make you happy.... and yet.
... now you have to be well
.... rounded still..... to keep your job
....and to keep that .
....you know security.... in your job
.... and it's not as easy as... pie.

Daisy:

....Well, .....I think that ....the.. really important.... issue here is that ..
.....(um)........your education .....is not just something.
.... you get from college
.... that ...it's also .....an ongoing process(mm)
.....whether that be in your job .....or in your life
..... and I (um)personally
......I hope to call myself a student ......until the day I die.
..... I think ...(they uh)..the more you learn.
.... the less you realize..... you know(mm)
..... and..(um).. it just encourages
......you to continue ......that education.... and to learn more.

Vivian:

(well) And if you are
.....a well ..developed person
...(um)..and you get along..... well with the people
..... that around you and stuff..
... you know ....as we were talking about earlier .....the(is uh)..
...(that's)....street wise ....kind of person.
.....You, ....you .....further yourself in the... work place as well .....because ....if you look at people who
.....aren't so.... you know .....don't get along ....so well with people around them.
...... then you can succeed as far... just because you're talented.

Bow:

But to reiterate ....what Daisy was saying
.....is that um...
....I want to make this point. .(that).....You don't necessarily
...have to go to college.... to get an education. (right)
....And I will give you .....another example ....that
... when I was (um)...living in Korea.... I had decided to.
... stop living in Korea.... and go to... graduate school.
....And... the reason was ....because I..(I um)
... believed ....all that stuff ....like you have to educate
.....yourself you have to go... to institution.
.....So I (wen)..(oeng)....(so I.) went to..... the graduate school.
.... that I was going to apply to... it was an art school
..... and (uh).. I met ....some of the students in there ....and they were so .....colorless
.....and I thought they would be ....so great because..... they are artists..... and stuff but they were all
.....kind of....(mm) they had the same kind of
..... M.O. as ...just like any kind of student. ...Whereas
...the people that.... I meet here in Korea
....are so much more colorful
........and I( I)... learn so much more from them ...and like
...(or or)..or other people like.... that come here from..... different countries of the world I learn.
.... so much more than.... having that paper.

Vivian:

Well ....you know you gotta think that
.....being in a foreign country
.....and you have so many people
.....from different lands... come here.
....Those people that came here ....they're not
...run of ...the mill... kind of people..,
.....they're.., .....first... they gotta have guts ...to go
...somewhere else and.... they were interested.
... in learning more ....and growing ...and developing
...within themselves.

Bow:

...(and) Yes, ...I agree and also
....(um) I thought.(of all) .....I'm not (I'm )gonna to graduate school.
.... and I'm gonna make... the world my class room.
.....And another way ...would be..(um)
... this is good .....base to travel to.
... other countries .....and learn about other cultures .
...which I really..... haven't got the chance.... to do ...but
....again (um) ....you can still ....do that without
.... visually seeing that .....a little bit
....like vicariously ....through other people ...that do(mm)
.... and go and have ..these experiences (se uh)
.....you know like people.(um)
... that were there they might
......think about going to Thailand ....but
.... would they really know why
.....would they have a lot details of.... like uh,
.....why they would  (want to)... wanna go there
..... or do they just wanna go to like
.... cool beach and do drugs ...you know.(mm)

Daisy:

Well you know (I).
..I agree with everything
.... both of you have just said
.... but I... also think .....an education.... cannot be replaced
....if you (um)...enter
....that institution or.... that education
....for the right reasons.
....I don't think ...the right reason .
...are going ....for the job
....on the Wall street (sure)..or the six figured salaries.
.... But if you go into that... institution
.... and ..you're..(men men ).. mentally prepared.
... for what you're going to learn
...and you're ...using..... that information
.... in a practical way(mm)
... not just in the.... theoretical way
.... that society ...has told you... should use it.
....Then I don't... think there's anything ...that can
....(um)..replace ...that type of education.

Bow:

We might all agree ...at that point.
....But ..then again.... like.(um)
.. it still is...(the) the fact that people
.....need that piece of paper... to get on.(sure)

Vivian:

(right)...Yeh reality bites.(yeah )  (yeah)

Daisy:

That's true. ....I think you do ...if you want to
...(m)..be in a profession... that requires.... you
... to have a science degree
....or that requires you
..... to have a degree in psychiatry ....or whatever .
..of course... it's necessary.

Vivian:
..(Or you just can')
....Or you just can't ....get beyond the barrier.
... there are still people
....who practice and.... who work in those field
..... they may not have a piece of paper
..... but most of time in general ...you need it.

Daisy:

Right,..(right)... but(I).. I specifically talking about
...(um).....professions like psychiatry.
....I mean ..you can.., .(sure)..
....because psychiatrist unless you
....have 7 year degree.

Vivian:

Unless you're Dear Abby.(hahaha...)

Bow:

(but ,you know)...Also(uh)
....I think this is.... philosophy
...of the x-generation.
.. which is.. while I go
... bust my butt.. for 4 years ......and get my degree
.... but now ..I'm gonna be a bartender
....because it's more fun(mm)
...and if I like lose my job.

Vivian:

You still have security.

Bow:

Yes. ...I just can go back.... and become a history teacher.

Daisy:

I don't see... anything bad... with that though.

Bow:

But I don't either.

Daisy:

I don't ( I don't)..see anything wrong with it.

Bow:

No, I'm not saying it... in negative way.

Vivian:

It's a something insurance.

Daisy:

No.

Bow:

I am just stating the fact.

Daisy:

I think so a (a) bartender
....with university degree
....that has a broad knowledge
...of history or
....(or)(or).. you know ..psychology
....would be a fascinating bartender.
I'd go to that bar.(mm)
.... He probably make(no) ...a good living owning a bar
..... and tending that bar
...(I what'e the thing uh)..... I don't see any problem with that.

Bow:

The job bartender... is derogatory.

Vivian:

(yeah) But any job.(yeah)

Bow:

(on on) Another job ....that is outside of your major.

Daisy:

That's the thing.... I think that
....it doesn't matter... what you study
....that education ....somewhere down the track
.... is going to benefit you .....as long as you.
.. have approached ....that education.... with open mind
....and you've actually gained ...something from it.

Vivian:

And also.... you don't have to ....necessarily
... have..I mean.
... after you have that piece of paper... you are.. still educating yourself
.... not necessarily.... by going to school.... but..
... there are many people ....who educate themselves ...like I said
......my godfather ..to the States.
... still educates himself (mm)
....and is always looking for... a new... you know.

Daisy:

You know ..that's really..... important too,
.....furthering your education....and constantly
.....wanting to (uh).. get(um).... increase your knowledge
....but I also think that (time on)
....you know .....if we just approach... our education... in a different way
....without the capitalistic ideals ....behind it.
...(and) and thinking..(or)... or encouraging.... your children
....to go to school ....for different reasons
..... not because you have to win
....not because you have to.. be this or .......do that
....just for the reason ...that education
....was originally created.... by Greek philosophers
....you know .(mm)..to improve.... you as human being
.... to grasp the higher faculties.... and get something from them.

Vivian:

And maybe before .....we close ...since we talked about
....early education
.... you know..... later on education
.... life now and work.
.... Maybe we should touch base.
.... before we end the conversation....
.... on... you know..... education in your later years... you know
.... these days you hear... a lot about people
....going back to get ..that piece of paper (mm)
.....or ...you know still... like..... I said my ....godfather still.
... I mean.... he has had that.. piece of paper... but still
...continuing to (mm)
....you know ...strive ..for more ....and higher education.
...(uh) Do you think ...you still be
....studying and.
... maybe groping more.... knowledge?

Luke:

I don't know ..if I'll be
....academically studying.
... I might be.... I'd like to leave the option open.
.... I wouldn't be..(um)
.. I wouldn't feel ashamed.... or
...(or)...like I ....was going backwards..(mm).. by going back to school
...if it was something... that interested me.
... but I just think(that)..
... that hopefully ....the kind of jobs I'll ....end up with
.... will allow me to..
... explore different avenues.(mm)
.... and to grow in different ways
.... and to become more enlightened
.... with different things and ....
....I mean ....that's kind of that's.. hopefully ..what it is...
.... they say ...you know ..(he)..the best way to(to)
... be successful ....and happy
... is to find something ...you really like (mm)
....and figure out a way to get ...paid for..(yeah).
... it and if you can do that... that's pretty good.(haha...)

Daisy:

(well)..You know I ..(I)..definitely agree
.... with everything you just said I.... hopefully
...I want to always.... be a student
...whether it be.
... at an academic institution.... or student of life
....but... I ....(I) believe.... when I was last at
....college I.... took a few philosophy classes.... and I loved them
....and I think... that's my next step, (mm)
....I'm gonna go ...back ....and I'm gonna get another degree... in philosophy ....not for my job
.....just because ....I love it
...and.. that ..is.... I think the essential
... reason... for studying.
... If you love it ...and you ...are interested it
... then go and study it.

Vivian:

Right..... I definitely. agree,
...(uh)...I found that I ....am very satisfied
....oh I wanna learn... this (s)or
.... (or) these days ..I wanna take lessons doing this
....because it satisfies me
....not because ....it's going to get me
....(and for uh higher up on that chain,
....It will eventually, ...It satisfies me .....and gives me some sort of ....personal gratification.....
.... being able to... learn another... you know ....trade
...or ...learning more... knowledge.

Luke:

I think of a lot of employers ...(when they).
....when they are... looking to hire someone
.... the way that everyone these days ....is so
.. over qualified.(mm).. for so many jobs.
.... People have gone to school ....for so long
...and have learned ...so much about
....so many jobs about their fields... and stuff so specialized.
.... I think the really difference ....is the edge.. you'll get
....is ..this is being well rounded interesting person. (right)
...I mean no one wants to work.... with someone
....whose the best and very intelligent (mm)
....and very hard working
.... but has ...a lame personality...(right ,it's right).
.. and is a total deadbeat... to hang out with,
....You work with your co-workers
....you wanna be to able to get ..
.along with them you.. wanna be ...stimulated ...by them you wanna be ...interested
..(in).in them... you have to work ...with the people,

Bow:

I disagree kind of a little bit. .....Yes ...at some points I do
...agree (like)depending... on the job
... what if it's like ...NASA,.
.. I don't really want .(mm)...or like heart surgeon
....I don't want the... guy joking around.

Luke:

(The majority )The majority of jobs  (yeah yeah) ..I'm saying.

Bow:

The lame jobs ...like accounting and stuff.(haha...)

Daisy:

I don't know.... a heart surgeon with a
...(with  a)...(with a.personality)...humorous ....personality

Bow:

Ok, ....Maybe like ...when he's not.,,

Vivian:

Squeezing your heart,

Bow:

Maybe outside ...or something..,
.... Hey you want hear a joke.
.... You got three days to live.

Daisy:

Yeh with scalpel in your head.

Bow:

Just kidding.

Luke:

I mean...(how). how much of your time
....of course ...part of whole(work)
... work thing and having.... a cohesion... in any work.
... environment is... (is)you do you work ....for a bit
...and you work well together
.... but then you're not working
....when you get to kick back a bit
....can you have anything ...to talk about.... can you hang out it's cool
....can you go..... for some beers after a hard days' work.
.... I am sure guys ...from NASA ....go out for beers ..after a hard days' work.(sure)

Daisy:

That has to be ....in any working environment
....whether it be NASA ...or whether it be (um)
...this studio here.. some kind of camaraderie.(haha). between people.
.... And you know ....that is something that life
....and living ....and relationships ...can only give you.
....So.. I think that.... you know.... in closing.... that (um)
....an education is...
.... irreplaceable ....and it's very important
....but we have to.
... look at the reasons ....why we are educating ourselves.
.. once again.

Vivian:

Right.

Luke:

And also ....try to foster ....in our own children
....and ..in our schools
....and.. in our teachers
.... an attitude ...of.
... not competition ....with another not
...(and not)..... by route ..appreciation ..and learning of things
....but(um).. an....(an)... absorbing of things.... internalization of ideas.... and an ability to interact
........ and cooperate with your peers .(mm)...throughout all ...stages of growth .(mm)...and throughout education ....
....because those are the values.
... that ..are really ....those are the traits ...that really valued
....when you are... in an actual job's ...situation
....and ...which will ....benefit ...everyone
.....like all of humanity... in the long run,

Vivian:

(uh)Ok.... and also you know... I think..(um).
... and foster ....other ways... to educate them ...like ...
....don't make them lazy
... like we're... talking about... x-generation...(mm)
.... encourage them.... to have part time jobs
....while they're at school
.....so that they learn.... other lessons as well.

Bow:

Um ...and also ....I think that(uh)
....our views today.... I wanna say ....this to our listeners... that(um)
.... you know.. our views ....have been really... pretty ..much liberal. (mm)
....You know... a lot of conservative ....views out there.. people will say ....
.....no this is the right way (mm).
...and it really is ...up to you
... these are our opinions ...(mm)
....and uh, ....you know ...everyone... has different opinions
....this group ...here just has... more
....I think... liberal opinions... than other people.

Luke:

Yes ....but .(yeah...)..if truth ...really be known. ...We're right.(haha...)

Daisy:

Amen.

Vivian:

We hope.

Luke:

We know it.

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sunyuting1 2008-06-07 19:07

          3册2.Euthanasia原文

2. Euthanasia


SIDE A


sunyuting1 2008-06-07 20:14
  分拆文本：


      1 . 第3册2.EuthanasiaA面开始到15分13秒的语音文本

2. Euthanasia


SIDE A


Hey guys how are you doing?
Hey~~
What's up gang? Oh! How are you?
Righteous! Righteous! Good to see you, man!

Deb: What's been going on?

Bow: Oh! check it out, man. In the newspaper today did you hear? The Netherlands just legalized euthanasia.

Daisy: Really?

Cathy: Really?

Bow: Yeah!

Luke: Euthanasia? What's that?

Bow: So like you know, if you're sick, and you're, you're gonna die and you have some chronic illness that there is no cure for and you're basically just gonna deteriorate, deteriorate and deteriorate, basically if you're a citizen of The Netherlands you can ask a doctor to pull the plug sort of... he will actually let you die or speed the process up.

Bow: Oh, In Netherlands, you can also marry your gay partner.

Luke: Yeah! Yeah! They're very progressive there.

Deb: They are very, they're so liberal.

Luke: Yeah~ you can't kill people there without, unless they want to be killed.

Deb: So it's a wanting to die. (Luke: I think so) you have to want to die for them to actually let you or speed up the process, allow you to die.

Luke: I think so. Yeah. I don't know if, I don't know if it allows for, like if you don't if you are a vegetable or something (Deb: Yeah) say in a coma or something...) I don't think it allows for that, I think you have to be in your own mind.., it has to be totally like.., you have to be (Deb: Coherent...) yeah coherent you have to be lucid and everything to make the decision for yourself.

Deb: Oh~ I see.

Bow: How about you Deb, what if you are in a coma would you want someone to pull the plug on you?

Deb: If I was in a coma? Um, I guess if I was in a coma for a really long time.., but wait, if you are in a coma that doesn't necessarily mean that you're.

Luke: Doesn't mean that you're dead. You could come out of it.

Deb: Right.

Bow: Yeah! But what if you would come out but you got brain damage would you want the plug be pulled?

Deb: Uh... maybe. Because I think then I'd probably be a big burden of my family. So yeah, I think it would be very expensive and very hard on them. And you know there's nothing I can do to help the situation except if they were to pull the plug then I'm gone. It's...

Bow: What about in a hypothetical situation where there wouldn't be a burden a rich family maybe that could support somebody, you think and there is no way that they would come out of a coma and if they did they'd be a vegetable. Do you think that uh...they have the right to pull the plug?

Deb: I still think it's really it's just so emotional for a family to have that over their heads all the time, and they're constantly.., like I mean, I think it probably affects your life so much that they can' t move cities and things without considering it. It's such a big consideration if you have a family member that's in a coma that you're constantly caring for. And it's not even about the money more about the emotional um...the emotional taxation of it.

Cathy: So you if were to pull the plug on somebody like this they would die right away.

Deb: Yeah~

Luke: Pretty much...

Deb: What do you think if you're really sick, and it was a terminal illness, and you weren't going to be get better, then...you...it starts to hurt like that the illness progresses so much that you're in so much pain, you might live for another six months but it's gonna be a painful six months. Would you want to die sooner rather than pull...go through the whole 6 months of pain?

Cathy: I think it's difficult to say how you'd actually feel in the situation.

Luke: Um, say you've made your...

Deb: How about you can take control of the situation? (Luke: Yeah!)and say I'm ready to go.

Luke: Yeah. If you have made your peace, I mean if you've been through this if this is something you've maybe heard about a couple of years ago or something, your time is limited now on this mortal coil, and you're gonna be going out eventually sooner or later no one can say. And then probably from that point on you, you're gonna start coming to terms with you your spirituality or you know whatever your life is the sum of all your experiences or whatever.

Deb: And as you start to sort of maybe come to terms with that, that's gradually like giving you some peace of mind then like...uh...they're pendulum. There's all the pain it's coming. It's gonna be a more and more painful that. What would you do then? Bow?

Bow: If I was in the situation, I would um...have um...somebody who was responsible for pulling the plug maybe look into cryogenics? (Deb: What's cryogenics?) it is like freezing... (Deb: Oh...then you could be brought back to life...later when they figured it all out...)

Luke: Cure.

Bow: Maybe something like that...um...that's true. yeah. if you have unlimited funds now. But if you have limited funds then taxidermy, would it be ok?

Deb: So that your mom could put you on a shelf?

Bow: Well I mean think about euthanasia is, it's a big deal with humans but it happens all the time with animals, my dog was euthanized (Cathy: See? That's the thing) and many dogs are. I mean that's a life.

Deb: I thought better knowing that our dog wasn't in pain when that happened with our dog, that gives us a hard decision to make. (Bow: Yeah~)but at the same time like the poor thing was suffering so much, it was in a lot of pain that it was...and that was even hard for us to watch. So imagine if it's human, say it's your brother.

Cathy: That's an interesting point. It's like you're not just living this life by yourself. You're not just totally an individual you're connected to everybody else, so I think that decision would have to be based on all of the people that love you and, by you as well.

Luke: It wouldn't be an easy decision either but I think in order to define like I guess for the family who had to sit by and.., either allow the person to let themselves die or to make the decision for them. It's not really killing it's not really murder at that point because it's not only life that is ending. I mean I think that if you're bedridden and you're totally you've lost all control over (Deb: All your functions) all your functions that's not really living anymore, it's sort of an in-between state anyways (Deb: Right) So I don't think I don't know I think it's a good thing it's a progressive thought, but an important one.

Cathy: Yeah. I remember I was talking to one of my students who had a father who was dying and he was telling me how difficult it was to see him going down further and further and further, and for the entire family really so maybe something like euthanasia would...

Deb: Would be something that they could grasp and could actually give them a lot of peace of mind for the whole family (Luke: Right)

Bow: How about this thought like um doctor Kervorkian he is in court still now and um...(Cathy: So controversial.) and um the thing that's interesting to me is that people give him permission to kill them. Then he injects them with certain medicines I suppose and.., then.., they die. But urn, these people if they really wanted to die I mean maybe they chose him because it's urn... it seems medical to them or I mean maybe jumping off a building or cutting their wrists is just too gory and but I mean I'm sure that they can find other ways that wouldn't be painful, they could take some sleeping pills if they really want to (Luke: Sure) but I think why they choose him is because they want someone else to have responsibility for... And so them saying like I have problems I did it to myself. They want someone to say like this guy feels the same way, you know like, he's responsible for...(Luke: An advocate kind of) exactly.

Deb: I saw a movie once. And it was based on a true story it was about this really old retired couple. And I believe the wife had Alzheimers and she was really, really, really sick and deteriorating. And she couldn't even get off the couch like she was that sick, and so her husband actually took it upon himself to kill her. (Daisy: Really?) Yeah. He shot her twice.

Luke: Oh. I heard about that.

Deb: Yeah. Then he was on trial but he was claim that it was a mercy killing and he loved his wife all like for 50 years or whatever that they were married he loved her. He did it because he cared for her not because he wanted to get rid of her. But because of the pain that he saw her in ... He wanted to alleviate that. She couldn't actually say to herself she wanted to be killed... He made that decision for her.

Cathy: But maybe they knew each other.

Deb: But the people that knew him. Exactly people that knew him and knew their marriage understood him, that you know he wouldn't have just murdered her. It was out of love it was because he cared for her that's why it was a mercy killing.

Cathy: So what did the courts decide...

Deb: I don't remember that.

Luke: Probably he probably got in trouble for that. I mean, it's...it's really brutal. I think it's almost kind of fascist how the government takes such an interest. It is really like sort of ultimately I think something like that should be the individual's right. You've gained a lifetime of making your own decisions on so many things and then like some bureaucrats are telling you, you can't, you can't end your life even though like you're the one who has to suffer through it, you are the one who has to put up with all the waiting around.

Bow: What was interesting like in the States anyway suicide is illegal. It's against the law to kill yourself.

Luke: Yeah right.

Bow: So...that's just like a contradiction almost because...

Cathy: What are they gonna do once you're dead?

Bow: Arrest your corpse.

Deb: Uh. there's also another story I know about that in Saskatchewan, a father murdered his thirteen or fourteen year old daughter. She was severely retarded and he shot her. I believe ...I'd not sure if he shot her. Actually... he might have.., but anyways he did kill her. and he totally owns up to that, but he said you know she was in so much pain and it was too much. He was very, very poor so he couldn't even put her in the proper facile.., like give the proper facilities to even make herself comfortable any more. (Cathy: Right) So and again like that I mean, I think he's still in court for that.

Bow: And that's that would be like a social problem, wouldn't it? He couldn't... he wasn't able to.

Luke: Yeah that's a little dodger.

Deb: Yeah that's the thing like. I mean it's still arguable. I mean she was in pain. Yeah I guess it is more, i see what you're saying but...

Luke: She was in pain ...being retarded is painful?

Deb: Well I think there might have other things going on as well, but like I mean so if you did just sort of like carte blanche say, ok euthanasia is ok. Who knows where that's gonna go?

Cathy: Yeah. That's. I think that's why the government gets involved so much because you could end up killing somebody and it could actually be a murder.

Deb: Exactly people are always claiming they're insane when they do things now because insanity leads to like three-year prison terms as opposed to life prison terms. So you know if people could suddenly claim like, Oh no! I euthanized that person then that gives a whole new avenue.

Bow: It's a good point.

Luke: And that leads to other things too.., like someone has is just gonna have a hard time of life because they're not as equipped in some like some respect she's not smart enough, she has a learning disorder he's got a bum leg or something. He's not gonna have a fighting chance so I euthanized them. Sort of reeks of, master race, some kind of weird filtering process...

Bow: This was just in the paper the other day.., a situation where a father in England killed his daughter because of her mental anguish. So it's kind of along the same lines. She was obsessed with Manic Street Preachers or something, some guy who in the band had committed suicide or something so she numerous times tried to do that and...

Luke: Commit suicide.

Bow: Commit suicide and she was just um hurt emotionally (Cathy: Tormented) tormented and her father um helped her commit suicide, he put a plastic bag over her head and then put a pillow over that.

Deb: Oh God! That is weird.

Cathy: Then nothing was wrong with her I think she was obsessed with.

Bow: And the father called it a mercy killing.

Luke: How old was she?

Bow: Uh...she was about maybe 24 or 25. I don't remember exactly. It was in the paper the other day.

Deb: My mom works in a hospice in Calgary and she's against euthanasia. And like.., completely against euthanasia because she believes that you can keep people comfortable and just give them a lot of love and support and you can make them comfortable and just help them get through that time. It can be painful but you know...

Cathy: Is a hospice is a place people go when they're terminally ill?

Deb: Yeah. It's for terminally ill people.

Bow: By the way what's carte blanche? So has anybody ever heard the stories of like people coming out of comas and what they've experienced because I have never.., like it was it peaceful for them or they were in a dream state or did they see the light.

Deb: Lots of times you hear that they can actually hear. (Luke: Mm...) but maybe not everything all the time. But some things they hear. Which is kind of interesting.

Bow: Yeah. Do they have feelings like.., the fetus.., does the fetus have feelings at a certain stage.

Luke: I think in situations like that where other people are deciding for the people I don't know I think it does have to be the families decision and you know they're the ones paying the money for it they're the people who know it. If the doctors can guarantee the person's not gonna come out or if they do come out they're just gonna be...

Deb: But I think pulling the plug is different from euthanasia.

Luke: Definitely. Yeah. If a person is trying to make an educated decision about it and an enlightened decision and has made their peace with everybody and with their decision I think that's almost just a release in a way like ok I'm ready to do this I mean if you've been in pain for this long you had much time to come to grips with...

Deb: And you're ready to go.

Luke: Yeah. The concept of death is not like a scary idea anymore and... you're welcoming it, it's scarier to...have to. I can imagine having to spend 5 years in a hospital bed or something never getting out and just being like waking up in pain everyday. That would suck... I think you would come to that decision pretty quickly actually.

Deb: Especially when you know it's deteriorating and you're deteriorating you know it's going to come, death is coming like... (Luke: Sure.) And I think most people when they come to the point where they can actually make a decision about euthanasia, it's when they're that close to death anyways, their probably just a matter of months away from death. That it is not a question anymore of will they get better and...yeah.

Luke: There's a thing of death with dignity as your last kind of act as a living person I guess would be dying and I guess if you could control sort of the way that you go out. I think that's sort of would be a very comforting thought too. I mean, if you are just going be like, going out screaming and puking and just making blood everywhere or something, a really gory scene and just not at all like in control of anything that's going on and all of sudden you're just snuffed out that's sort of like a crappy way to be remembered. That's not the way you wanna go out of the world.

Bow: You'd totally be remembered for that.

Luke: You'd be remembered for it.

Deb: But if you even went through all of that and then you're just sort of in a coma or whatever until you die like say you do go through all these like spastic things or whatever and suddenly like ok, you're coherent and suddenly you've got so much pain and you can't even talk anymore, so you're not going to be able to make anymore peace at that point. You're not gonna be able to say like I'm ready to go, like now you're just sort of like hanging on because they're making you hang on (Luke: Yeah) until your body gives up. (Luke: Yeah) You know my mind's ready to go and I wanna go.

Luke: In a dignified way (Deb: Yeah) Just sort of like close my eyes and ah--


sunyuting1 2008-06-07 20:20
分拆文本：


        2. 第3册2.Euthanasia A1的15分13秒到A面29分15.5秒结束的语音文本



Cathy: See part of me believes like um that maybe there is a God and maybe that my life was planned and I am here for a reason and I was brought into (Deb: A specific amount of time) right, I was brought into this world to experience all of the things that I'm going to experience and death being part of it. and in that sense I would say that if I'm going to argue that completely I would say that euthanasia is wrong, because it is my plan, the plan that was ordained for myself. But again I'm sitting in a comfortable position I'm not terminally ill, I'm not going through pain so it's easy for me to say that and I don't have a family member like that.

Deb: But also like... I'm sorry. (Bow: Oh, go ahead.) No I was just gonna say ok even if you do believe in God, God also gave you like the faculties to think of these things and to come to these decisions and these thoughts come from somewhere. And you know like if you do start to go down the avenue of like you know what, I think at this point I'm ready to die, I don't want to go down this road of just like deteriorating and deteriorating. And so somebody gave me these, if God created you. He also created you with the mental capability to come up with these ideas and make these decisions so, I think that that's even an arguable point like maybe he wants me to make this decision for myself and that's my lesson that I need to learn.

Cathy: Yeah, that's quite possible.

Bow: I would say a similar thing which is that you're talking about being pre- ordained or destiny and what not ... I mean.., what if our destiny was to be euthanaized, what if that was part of the plan? I mean you can never tell really until (Cathy: You can't.)

Luke: Which is a good decision and which is not yeah...

Bow: Or if you're supposed to live out your life naturally, does that happen or is the plug pulled, from...under...uh...when you're in coma y'know maybe talking about predestined plans I believe in predestined plans, but I think there's no way to know what that would ever be until maybe we get the answers when we die I don't know. (Cathy: Right) We just have to wait and see.

Luke: And all the choices leading up to that one choice too. If it's not your decision then were all the previous decisions and things you'd done previous to it, would those have been negated too.would those have been faded too, were you in control of those parts. So why not be in control right up to the end (Deb: Yeah...) and make the final, the greatest, you know, not the greatest decision.

Deb: And possibly the most important you know, or like a certainly significant one (Luke: Yeah.) you know.

Luke: That sort of like the period. The final punctuation on a long story or something, the final sentence kind of thing -- how does it end? You know.

Cathy: I'm definitely for individual freedom, and um... individual cases like I don't think you can say ok, yes, euthanasia is ok. (Deb: Right) all the time, a 100 %. But it's like I believe that every single case you should be looked at differently, like only you and your family and those around you know your life and if it's appropriate for you.

Luke: A choice should made available to people though.

Bow: You think by by... the Netherlands's legalizing it and saying people do have the choice to do it. That's ok, they're saying, the government is taking their hands off that side of things. And if people want yeah.., people from there, that doesn't mean that if you're sick you're gonna die you gonna die, we're gonna figure it out for you.

Deb: I'm sure that there's a lot of hoops that you have to go through to actually to get to the point where you are even looked at to be like for consideration of like ok now you can be euthanized if you want. You probably have to go through so many hoops.

Luke: It's very very strict right, like procedures you got to go through yeah like.

Bow: We're talking about earlier the financial aspect of it. Now again hypothetically what if there were funds made available to keep people alive.

Deb: Like just like a kitty.

Bow: I mean no...yeah like just dogs and cats too but people. For example people ...

Deb: No, no, no. Like a kitty, like a pot of money (Bow: Oh...ok) whatever that's called.

Bow: A piggy bank? O.K. Carte blanche? But um no, ok, let's just say like you know it was just free just um there's extra taxes to have people like to keep them alive until maybe there's a chance to find a cure or freeze them and put more money into that. So then would you all agree that just in cases of where people are in extreme pain, that they should be euthanized?

Luke: Yeah I don't think anybody should be able to do it. Well actually I kinda do...I think no one should be able to say whether or not you can make this decision over your own life, that's your life. (Cathy: No...) How can the government take it upon themselves to say no we think you should be you should be hooked up to a life-support system for next five years.

Bow: But I mean the people that are in comas, that can't make their own decisions.

Luke: Yeah... that's.., more or like the mercy killing kind of thing.

Cathy: I believe that laws should exist in order to like, so people can be happy and not like...something should not be legal if it's going to hurt somebody else or themselves right. Following that line, if you are terminally ill and you're suffering a great deal of pain and your family's suffering a great deal of pain it should be ok for you to end your life. Now whether or not you believe in God or all these other things they might also come into play when you're personally making that decision. (Deb: Exactly) But the government shouldn't say this is not allowed. I don't believe in that I believe, the least regulations as possible.

Luke: Yeah... there should be a window where by people can empower themselves at that stage of the game I think. But of course you need also it also I think really freaks people out about it. I don't think a lot of people have a problem with the main idea of people in that situation having the right to end their own lives. But I think worrying about opening the door a little bit more, you sort of let that go through oh ok then.

Deb: And then what.., and then what how much more.

Luke: Yeah it sort of progresses and progresses.., and then anybody who wants like ah I got a stomachache someone kill me like. But I guess that's where the real issue sort of comes down to is the whole love issue and people around you and how they would react to that whole thing too. I mean of course people aren't gonna be happy with it if someone close to you is on the verge of dying. In most situations I think people would really have a problem with that.

Bow: What?

Luke: With...with...someone making the decision to kill themselves or making the decision for them.

Bow: What if they had a big life insurance policy, they might be happy.

Luke: Well... see there yeah and there's.., people kill each other for worse reasons. Yeah...people who are doing really fine, they kill each other too, but that's the thing when you...when you make it sort of open like that it sort of...

Deb: Gives people all the more reason (Luke: Yeah) people find all the more reason (Luke: Yeah) to be able to.

Luke: People find an angle to euthanize somebody. I wanna euthanize this guy over here.

Deb: He's annoying me.

Luke: Euthanize your ass.

Cathy: I was reading about Buddhism the other day, and I heard this theory actually one of my students told me this theory, about Buddhism that um your children are people whom in your past life have really helped you and now in this life you must help them. And your husband or your wife or somebody that you really hated now in this life you must learn to love them. (Deb: Ah~) Yes, interesting, and if it's true for example, let's say that your child is very, very ill and maybe they're gonna go through an extended period of time of suffering, and as a parent it is maybe your job in this life to learn the lessons that you must learn to take care of that sick person. So in that case euthanasia might not be an option.

Bow: Um, so if you hate your wife in this life, then the next life you love her. Right?

Cathy: Hopefully. Then you've accomplished that lesson.

Luke: You can't euthanize her.

Bow: Damn!

Luke: Not an option!

Bow: Damn!!

Luke: What about with parents, I think that the large...the larger segment of people who are up for this idea are the old folks you know and um...I mean if you look at the Confucian society like Korea we were talking about it earlier, the idea of differing to older people and ...showing respect to older people that doesn't really fit in to the whole idea of euthanizing and killing off old people, just because they're not gonna be productive to themselves and to the society anymore, is that...

Deb: Goes against everything (Luke: Yeah) that they really believe.

Luke: Almost like yeah the opposite of the Confucian kind of ideal.

Cathy: Well that kind of thing has been happening in societies for ages like if you look at like anthropology for example you can see you know in these forging societies you know if a member is no longer to add to the society it's expected that they're going to be left behind. And left to die. And that's considered...

Deb: Is it ok is it because they're sick that they can't contribute anymore to their community or is it they just don't...they're lazy.

Cathy: It could be that they are sick.

Deb: Whatever, they just put them up to...

Bow: Oh no. I think uma lot of...um... Asian societies as well as other societies, were based urn.., they were farmers and everything was based around the farm so that's why traditionally they prefer sons because they can work on the farm and be more productive. So yeah it make sense that um...when someone becomes non-productive they would.., in a traditional sense euthanize them. And I've heard stories in Korea where they have those urn.., they used to take those A-framed backpacks that they used to carry wood on and they put the grandfather on and they bring him and just leave him in the woods. (Deb: Wow) Yeah, I mean what a way to go, just been left alone to nature.

Cathy: Yeah that was considered the way to go, and you know, your final sort of gift to the society while are you gonna keep pulling and pulling if you have no more nothing to give.(Deb: To offer)

Luke: We can counter that argument and say that we are not hunter, gatherer tribes anymore. We have technology everywhere, we have these machines, millions of dollars and years of research...

Deb: You don't discard people because they can't physically contribute or whatever even if they can't mentally, like if they just can't contribute at all that doesn't mean that they're just like (Cathy: Maybe they have knowledge as well that could be contributed.)

Bow: That's kind of... how...um.., that's how tradition works though. Even though in modern day society where you have a homogeneous society like Korea um... old traditions die hard you know. Some of the old traditions are still very.., pervasive and (Deb: Very evident) yes in Korea the um...the whole thing about marriage and um...having a son is still here even in this modern day society.

Deb: So ok. But they aren't putting their ancestors out to pasture anymore sort of thing, you know I don't think they're still doing that so... they've come y'know they've moved, they progressed in some ways, and they're not doing that anymore so then.., do you think that they might be they might lean toward euthanasia then?

Bow: Um...maybe... I think in traditional days. It depended on class, the class system, so the more money you had, the more affluent you were, the better mound you got with a better grave site and people take care of it, whereas the poorer people would, probably who worked on the farm that's all they had, that was their life, you know take their grandparents out to the woods and leave them. If that was my situation, if my family was um...of course you know, they loved me, but they were poor, and I had say for example a life insurance policy, I would want them to take me out. Yeah I mean that would benefit like if say there's kids involved that would...they could live off of that and you know go into ... (Deb: Right, rather than it all being spent.) on... yeah, me who nobody knows what's gonna happen.

Deb: Or they do know that you will die, y'know, they know that's coming. What's the point putting money into? (Bow: Exactly)

Luke: The idea of also having a fund for making lives last longer I think it's sort of where it's needed. I mean there's so many other things people who need to get started on a life and they're gonna have a sub-standard life from day one. Those maybe are lives that we could improve on, if you look at in more of a holistic sense of course you always have stronger loyalties to your family and your loved ones, the people who are close to you and so if you had the money you're gonna put it towards them and their quality of life (Deb: But maybe we need to look more at the community and things and) yeah...and there's a global community as well it's like people who had their time and it didn't quite work out for them maybe and they're sort of on their way out now and that's where it's sort of, yeah, the individual, if the individual actually is saying I'm volunteering man (Deb: I'm ready to go) I'm out of it yeah...

Deb: So then the money that almost would have been spent say for the next following six months that would have kept them just barely alive or just barely comfortable that money could almost be put into the community or whatever to jump start... (Luke: Hopefully yeah) hopefully get some kids off to a better start or something if they're.., they're living below the poverty line or something that y'know you can save money if it's about money. Y'know you can save money here and put it back into the community this way or something.

Luke: Often you have the families of someone who has whatever disease it is and there is no cure for it and that's why you're going out. The money that you would spend to keep yourself alive could it make a fund to find a cure for that disease. Irradiate them one by one in that way and do the greater good, sort of take one for the team. I think there's a lot of dignity in that. It's a very noble way to die. I think...I think.., that would lend a great poetry to...to a death.

sunyuting1 2008-06-07 21:08
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                    3. 第3册2.Euthanasia  B2的29分15秒到44分14.3秒的语音文本

Cathy: What about the aspect of love, though? If you love somebody, would you want them to kill themselves before let's say, they would naturally die, or would you want, because you love them, you don't want to see them go through pain?

Deb: Ok.

Cathy: Like, do you have?

Deb: No, I was just gonna say like no, ok, like for our own family members, whatever. Urn, I have a grandfather that's got Alzheimer's really badly, he is not so bad now, but we all sort of know that it's going to get pretty bad. (Cathy: Right) I'm kind of all for it, if it gets to a point. Can we use euthanize him because he's out of his head? He is in pain. He doesn't understand anything. (Cathy: Uh-uh) Once he gets to a point where it's really like that traumatic for the family, like emotionally traumatizing for the family or whatever. Let the poor guy go.

Bow: Is he in pain, though? I mean, it's.., it's in the mind. I mean, what is he actually feeling, I don't know, if you can...

Deb: But when it gets to a point where, like he doesn't get, I mean, he hasn't had a shower in a month apparently. You know what I mean?

Bow: Is it bothering him? Or it that bothering other people? But he doesn't care.

Deb: No, but, but I think that it does get to a point where they, they maybe can sort of like lose all functions, lose all bodily functions, they don't even get up any more, they just don't. Maybe they start to lose more like it spreads out beyond, Alzheimer's whatever, I don't know.

Luke: It's just like a really slow, slow death then, (Deb: Yeah, it's) an excruciatingly slow death. And I think it's that's, uh, it's not really love any more. If it's love, it's more selfish love at that point, because you want, you want grandpa around you. (Deb: Sure you do.) You want these people around you, of course you do. And I don't think there's any guilt in, in sort of saying like, let's let him go, let's let him have a nice, a nice exit sort of thing.

Deb: Ya, ya, ya.

Bow: You're into that, nice poetic.

Luke: That nice poetic exit, yeah. No, you don't want to go out with a lump in your pants and some nurse is.

Deb: Absolutely you know, you know, that's, that's just the way that I see it. I think that if it came to that, I think I'd rather see him go than hang on to him, just and have all the family just (Cathy: That's a very...) just, I mean it's out of love that we'd let him go not out of you know.

Bow: Yeah, speaking of the love and speaking of urn, Steven King who we we're just talking about earlier, the movie, uhm, Dolores Claiborne? (Cathy: Alright.) (Deb: Oh, Yes) What's about that? About this woman who was a real bitch (Deb: That's a great movie) and she, um, she wanted to die, but the love that she had for Dolores her made, she treated her like a shit for her whole life, and she asked Dolores, you know will you kill me, and she, what she throws her down the stairs or something, (Deb: I can't remember the end, but it's an awesome movie, I remember I really like it.) and she, uh, she left her her money, I think. (Deb: Yeah, actually, she did leave her money,) and then, it turns out in the end that she really did love her. It was just her way of showing it, and Dolores ended up, uh, killing her.

Luke: Right out of love, out of love.

Deb: Yeah, because probably, but also probably because that was a sort of relationship where you do what I say.

Bow: Right, You must kill me.

Deb: No, but out of respect, she did. You know, and 'cause also she had the upper hand at that point, she could've totally turned the tables, and made her life a living hell.

Cathy: Let's say, for example, you have a love like your husband or your wife, and they're terminally ill and they say, listen I'm in so much pain, I don't wanna live anymore, would you please kill me? Because I, for some reason this person can't do it themselves. Would you be able to do something like that? Would you be able to euthanize somebody that you love? (Bow: I wouldn't be able to.)

Deb: Well, I don't think I could. (Bow: I couldn't.) I don't know it'd be really hard. Because, again, like you would be in that every special case, where I'd have to sort of be in the situation looking at it going, well yeah, you're really sick, I know you're not gonna get better it's the hardest decision to make, and so maybe I would be the person that would be like I'll see what I can do, I'll try, you know, talk to a doctor who can get some pills.., or something to.

Bow: It depends of the method of death. (Daisy: Right) Shooting them or putting, you know...

Cathy: I have trouble killing a cockroach.

Deb: You know, not me.

Cathy: No?

Luke: If it was more like a sledge hammer or something... I wouldn't wanna do it. There are, there are, There are very peaceful ways to kill the person.

Cathy: That would be a very difficult thing to have to do. (Luke: Sure)

Bow: What do you think about, ok, this is like not people but, back to animals again (Deb: OK) like uhm, the Chinese recently, uh, the people it was in Hongkong, all these chickens had diseases, (Deb: Oh, the flu!) The flu! So they killed like uh, a million five hundred thousand chickens by putting them in barrels and gassing them. That's carbon dioxide. That's a form of euthanasia, I guess. Genocide chicken genocide?

Luke: Um, but people kill poultry everyday anyway. Poultry is going down and they're raising poultry, to kill poultry (Bow: To eat, though) to eat! but just to kill them to knock out a disease. (Cathy: Like Mad Cow disease as well.) Yeah, it just...

Deb: But is it a threat to like humans, right? Like I mean, (Bow: But I think they don't know.) because if they are just looking at the natural order, of course, the chickens gotta go.

Bow: How about like, uh, a lot of cats every year and dogs in America are euthanized just because of population. Is that, do you believe in that, do you think that they should be doing that. Is there other ways to solve the problem? Cathy: Yes, the humane society has a rule if the animal is after three months in the place, they have the right to kill it, to kill it afterward so...

Bow: But do you think that's right? or do you think that there would be other ways of controlling that?

Cathy: I think it's pretty bad actually. (Bow: Uh-uh)

Luke: It's unfortunate I think, but I mean it's, it's I think a necessary evil, I mean if people don't fix their animals, they (Deb: Right, right) will. That's their nature.

Bow: OK, what about China who's got almost a billion people. Are they gonna start doing it just because they didn't neuter each other.

Luke: Well, they are trying to do, uh, like zero-growth population.

Deb: They are trying to implement that.

Bow: But it's not gonna work, you are going against procreation?

Cathy: But yeah you are thinking about that like there are so many people in the world, and there's only a certain number of resources. (Bow: Yeah, what happens when there's not enough food?) Elderly people are taking a lot of money and stuff like this, so if you wanna...

Luke: Yeah, aging populations, this probably gonna be a really big issue in about twenty years when baby boomers all start hitting that age (Cathy: Oh, yeah) like our parents' age kind of thing, when they start getting up to that age, and they're gonna, want rights. It's just gonna be a really important weird thing, (Cathy: It is.) Because they are used to being people who always made all the rules. (Deb: Made the decisions) When, when everything was starting to really get going this century. And I think you're gonna probably, you'll see more where they're coming from and things.

Luke: I think that that's the just the way, they'll want to do it.

Deb: And they could again be the decision makers for that, because there are so many of them, and probably a lot of them will be like, you know what? I don't want to die in this way, I want to go this way.

Cathy: That could be a turning point.

Deb: Because there's gonna be like a loud voice at, at some point. There probably will be a loud voice of baby boomer's wanting it that way.

Bow: It's very interesting because it's like, uhm, with the idea of passing new legislation on allowing people to euthanize family members or people that wanna die allowing them to die, there's also new technology coming out that is helping them to live longer or cryogenics that, you know, might work. So it's like a battle against the two things, like uh, which one is gonna win? Is it gonna be, like we are gonna sustain life longer or, or they're just gonna just kill people at the drop of a dime ?

Deb: I'd like to see them, well I mean who wouldn't, but like obviously like, find cures for diseases.

Luke: Yeah, I think, I think the trend is gonna be try to extend life.

Deb: Well, ya, I know that's what you're saying too, but also like, as ya, well ya, I'd like to see life be able to go on in a, in a...

Luke: Educated way, I mean.

Deb: Yea, like in a way that they're contributing whatever, in a way that they're there like, coherently there.

Cathy: That's an interesting point like to find cures, say for example, you have AIDS, you have cancer, those are pretty you know, terrible ways to die, and you are at the point like, ok, I don't wanna live any more, this really sucks, you kill yourself, and a month later they come up with a cure, hypothetically that could happen. (Luke: Sure, yeah)

Daisy: It totally could, but...

Bow: Well, I mean it has happened, it has happened with like polio and stuff before they came up with a vaccine people die from it or tuberculosis things like that.

Deb: And there is no point in dwelling on it I don't think, because this is the decision you made and if you chose to be euthanized and like two days later, they discovered the cure for your disease, you know, you made that decision, and there is nothing anybody can do to change it, you know, maybe your family is gonna feel a little bit badly, but they let you go through that. But, you know what, they are gonna have to get over it it's a sort of why dwell on it, you know. And you could spend way too much time to...

Luke: And you can always explore your options. I mean if you're like, I'm thinking about maybe killing myself, but if you look into it, you know, you can say (Deb: And you see that it's close.) yeah there is there something on the horizon (Deb: We're going to know.) or thousands of miles away. Basically, we have no idea what you have. It's gonna get worse and worse, like exponentially by the day.

Cathy: Have you ever seen that movie Lorenzo's oil? (Bow: Yeah) Something like this is good?

Bow: There's also a movie uh, the Michael Landon Story? Where uh, he had cancer and the son was trying to get these medicines from, from Mexico that would cure his uh, prostate cancer or something. Michael Landon was just like, no son this is just my uh... (Luke: Oh, really?) You will, you will suffer, he was just like this is what happened to me, this is my destiny, leave me alone.

Luke: Yeah, I suppose there's, there's... (Deb: There're something there.) cause he lived a full life or something.

Bow: Yeah he had all the fame and fortune, and bunch of kids, and a bunch of wives, and jewels.

Luke: Ok, I really think, Yeah, I mean, some people would feel like they maybe they really would wanna die. I mean, maybe they're sick and they're...

Deb: And that's why it's your choice.

Luke: It's the choice, it's not like you have to die and stuff. But I don't think people should be so freaked out by the idea.

Deb: They should be allowed to have the choice. (Luke: Right, right)

Cathy: But what you were saying before about the power of the mind. I think that's something you know like I've seen many movies, and you know the last scene is like I'm dying now. But how do you know that? You have made that decision to die at that point. And you have come to terms with everything in your life even like the unconscious things you don't even think exist. So, if you really wanted to die, maybe you could just die through your mind's power.

Deb: My mom says that happens a lot like at the hospice and stuff like that.

Luke: They decide one night, I think I'm not gonna do it anymore.

Deb: Oh, No. One story that she told me was a man that had AIDS or whatever, and his boyfriend was there and he would stay and stay and stay. He wanted to be there for his last moment. And he finally said, the sick guy said, you know, why don't you go get a cup of coffee and so he left and then he went. And then he came back and he was gone. And my mom had to explain, you know. It's amazing people will choose their time to go. (Luke, Cathy: Yes)

Cathy: I think, I think, that's true, so like maybe somebody that thinks that they wanna die, they wanna have euthanasia, maybe they don't really want to there's some part of them, that is still hanging on to life. Or maybe see people that just hang on, hang on, why is that?

Bow: Maybe they think they can make it, make it through.

Deb: Well, also even when people are told that they have terminal illness, you have six months to live, lots of people will die. That's a powerful statement to say you've got six months to live. Lots, lots of people live, people will die within that six months, because they suddenly give up, but maybe had they not heard those words. They'd just think well, they'll just continue, and continue, and continue. They can't.

Cathy: Yeah, I've heard of that, I've heard of that before, after, right after your doctor says you're gonna die, you die shortly after.

Bow: Yeah, I totally believe in the power of the mind (Deb: Suggestion almost) I think there's a lot more to our minds than we know, than we are more capable of using.

Deb: And so then, if you did open up the avenue of euthanasia, then suddenly that avenue gets a little bit becomes more of a dead end. Because suddenly, it's like well, I'm allowed to go, so I'm gonna go. Less people will maybe choose to try and fight it out or use their own power, their own mind to come through it.

Cathy: Right. Maybe if euthanasia was allowed and you felt like this burden like your family is going through this huge financial burden, maybe then you say, ok, kill me. But maybe really you're not completely ready to die, because if you were, your mind would shut up and accept that, and you would die. Or maybe we haven't really learned to use our minds completely, (Bow: I think so.) and so we can expect that everybody that wants to die, could do it themselves that way.

Deb: It's wow.

Luke: But I mean a lot of these decisions.

Daisy: It's so much to think about it.

Luke: A lot of the situations though, it's often uh, a case of like, not actually being um, given anything, you're not actually being killed per se but often just left, just left alone. I mean just like stop the machines, stop all the gadgets and stuff, (Deb, Cathy: Right) because maybe you are being forced to stay alive. Even though you are well passed, just like, just let me go, or just take me away. But because you got this state of the art equipment hook, hooked up to you and stuff that's like literally keeping your heart pumping and stuff.

Cathy: Manually keeping you alive that supposedly.

Luke: Then you could conceivably and theoretically live forever, why not, you know.

Bow: But I think that idea of being hooked up, and having that technology is because there is hope that they will maybe miraculously, oh, we just found this medicine in Uganda, and the whatever, and uh, here take it now, you're better. That's the whole idea of that.

Luke: It's a race against time or something.

Bow: Exactly, and so it's like we gotta try everything that's humanly impossible (Deb: Right) to keep this person alive as much as we can. And if we can find it.

Cathy: Maybe we shouldn't think of life and death as two completely separate things. Right, you're living in life, and you're dying. Every day every minute, we are all dying, we all accept that fact. (Deb: One closer step to death.) Right? And so, that the death is just a course of living.

Bow: Well, that's yeah, I guess in a certain religion, that's the idea, but I mean, Buddhism is not like that. It's like a cycle, so you're living, you're dying, you're living, you're dying. Maybe they might think another way. That’s not, we're not getting closer to death, but we are getting closer to uh, (Deb: A new life) an anniversary. (Luke: And the government...)

Cathy: But getting close to, I think, to that point, right? Whether it's a death or it's the start of a new life, we are always getting closer to that point. And so do you wanna rush the process, or do you wanna just let it go.

Luke: The thing is the people that make the rules, like the government. They don't see it in terms of, you know, the Buddhist stance or, you know, the continuum sort of from life into death. They just see it as tax paying citizen (Deb, Cathy: Right.) stiff, you know, that's really, they're the ones who are making the decision. And who are basically regulating for the majority of the people whether or not they have control over them.

Deb: They make decisions that aren't based on.

Bow: But if they didn't regulate it, then I think it would get out of hand (Luke: I agree) like we talked about earlier. So they have to regulate somewhat. Because that's what governments set up for to regulate things would get out of hand, it'd be chaos. (Deb: Regulations)


sunyuting1 2008-06-07 21:13
分拆文本：

      4.Euthanasia的B面44分15秒到56分15秒结束的语音文本


Cathy: If you're in charge of a society, right, you want every single member of your society to be adding something to the society. Right? And that's like maybe a long time ago, and these like forging societies, people had to keep moving, it would make sense to leave the elderly people behind, because they cannot move. Maybe in a farming community, it might be nice to keep the old people alive because they have a lot of traditions, stories, and knowledge to give to the younger generation. So in this society, we have to think, ok, people who are terminally ill, what are they adding to society. And they are actually adding something. They are adding something I don't know.

Deb: Well, That is ok, but if they are, they could be, because if they are willing to try a new drug, they are the ones who are the sick. Right? (Cathy: Right) So they are the ones who are going to respond to the drug. They needs sick people to try (Bow: They're guinea pigs) experimental drugs on. (Cathy: OK, guinea pig is one) Yeah, so they are, they are contributing in some way, you know, like even if they are not physically fit or whatever, you know like they're still making their body available to say like, ya. I will try that new experimental drug because even if it doesn't work, at least you'll know. And that will get you off this page and on to a new page. (Cathy: Right)

Luke: And also they have a unique vantage point being so close to death, and still among the living, you know, and they a have unique prospective in that way.

Cathy: That's right, because.

Luke: That's something that a lot of people will never like we say, we can't really conceive of it, you know, because it's hard for us to say unless we've actually been there, or been that close to it or something, (Bow: That's actually is) uh, the perspective thing, they offer.

Bow: Another problem with government regulations uh, on the bad side of it is that urn, these people that want to try new drugs to try to stay alive, or guinea pigs are, are regulated by the government and they are not letting them try these new drugs that might actually do something or a combination of something or they don't let them try it like (Deb: They aren't so accessible.)

Bow: Because it might be harmful or something. (Luke: Exactly, It might worsen the situation.

Bow: Right now in South Africa, there is a pharmaceutical company that has developed a generic form of the AIDS medication. And the government is not letting them produce it which is really sad because that's where they say you know most of AIDS cases are is in Africa. That's like the hub of it.

Deb: Why? Do you know why?

Bow: Urn, Because it hasn't been tested enough, and what not, but urn...

Cathy: Maybe it's expensive as well, I think.

Bow: That's the generic brand that's why they're making it, because it'll be cheap for the people.

Cathy: Oh, for the masses.

Bow: For the masses. That's the idea. And that's why, and that's the problem.

Luke: But it might have side effects, doesn't (Bow: It might) it might actually make it worse. But it might make it better.

Bow: Yeah, so like I'm sure there's many people that are saying Yeah, give it to met. (Deb: Yeah, exactly, to be that person to be like, woah, I gotta third arm now, so don't be given this out any more, you know like.

Luke: That's where the government actually sort of like has to back off cause it is, it is down to an individual decision.

Bow: I don't know cause I mean, because the government was one that started AIDS in the first place.

Luke: Oh, you're a such conspiracy theorist. (Bow: Yeah) That's not.

Deb, Luke: That's not true.

Bow: That's not?

Luke: You don't know that it is. It probably is, but...

Cathy: We don't know for sure.

Luke: Let's not talk it about anyway.

Cathy: Only the strict facts here, (Bow: OK,)

Cathy, Bow: Euthanasia.

Luke: Euthanasia. Well, is it fair that rich people have like, all the access (Bow: Have all the money?) If you only have the two options, like get really cool like cutting edge technology to keep yourself alive, or you can have euthanasia. Poor people will only have one of those options. The euthanasia option.

Deb: And it's their own form most likely cause...

Luke: You're right.

Bow: Well, I believe, I mean, in life with everything else, it's just like the, uh, the cards that you have been dealt. You're poor, you're rich, you're middle class, that's what your life is. That's what you've been given in this life anyway. And um, if you do have more opportunities to have a bigger house, and a swimming pool. If you have more opportunities to keep yourself alive longer because you have more money than. That's just the way it goes. That's what I think.

Luke: And I think that that's where rich people come in handy when they get terminal diseases, they are very handy, in that way. Because they will actually, only when people do start trying to, yeah they have to develop the stuff, but people have do it before it can be more developed and, it has been studied and stuff. That's where they sort of just lead the way, and eventually, it will trickle down to other people with maybe, less money (Bow: Right) hopefully.

Bow: Of course, like um, poor people a lot more poor people die first before rich people. For example, I have been thinking about this recently, um, Magic Johnson has, had AIDS for what like 10 years now, maybe. (All Yeah) And you don't hear of him ever being sick and going to the hospital?

Deb: Because he's got the money to...

Bow: To take his AZT cocktails.

Deb: Well that, he is probably taking other other experimental drugs and things, he can probably sort of select like, well, Ya, this one on paper looks like it's been, it's really strong like it's a good drug to take. This, what you know, as far as experimental drugs go, he can at least have the choices for which experimental drugs, and he gets so many more opportunities to get those drugs.

Luke: He can afford it, and he can try it, and he's got nothing to lose by trying all these drugs. So he's actually making a, what he is doing is benefiting all of mankind because, if it works on him, then it'll work on the average people. And then that's an avenue that we can continue to pursue, you know, in that, in a scientific sense, do the studies on it and stuff. He's gone into total remission almost with it, you know.

Bow: Doesn't it also cause like people to say, look at him, he didn't die. So I'm not gonna like protect myself, they're gonna come up with a cure.

Deb: But I mean only an idiot would say that, because, well no, really because I mean obviously he is in a different, um, like if you wanna look at it as a class (Bow: Social class) whatever. Ya. He is way up there in a high bracket and stuff, only a fool would think that that's all it was, was oh, he is just another guy, he is not just another guy, he is another rich guy that has...

Bow: But as he may be saying that trickles down they're just saying well, I can make it, I can stay alive long enough until it trickles down.

Luke: Your kidding yourself if you think it's gonna happen that quickly like you're still.

Deb: It's gonna take a lot of time.

Luke: Most people who're dying of AIDS are no where near, what's his face uh, Magic Johnson's bracket, you know, and most people who are suffering from something like AIDS live in, you know, the least developed countries in the world, you know. They just will never develop, they make, he makes in thirty seconds what they make in a year kind of thing. (Bow: Right) to put in into perspective, so, I don't know if that's the best tact to take.

Cathy: So do you think that from that perspective that euthanasia should be available to poor people as an option? Because they can't afford, you know, the pain saving devices that a rich person could?

Luke: I think it's market, market influences supply and demand if people want, if people want to be put out of their misery, they can find a way to put themselves out of their miseries. It's all market flux, you know.

Deb: But then, ya, like it, it almost seems what sort of is a fine line, is euthanasia and suicide? (Cathy: Right) Like, it's, I mean, it's basically it's you killing yourself, you making the choice to die. (Cathy: Right) Right? Ya, ok, ya, if it is assisted or whatever. But is that not what Kervorkian does, though? He has it set up. He has, he sets up the little like whatever it is. And you push the button, when you are ready to go, you push the button. So it's basically you killing yourself. Ya, I guess, I...

Cathy: I think that is euthanasia in the strictest terms, right, like assisted suicide.

Deb: But I mean, otherwise, ya, if that person could just get a hand, get their hands on a bunch of sleeping pills or whatever, would they take the chance of just swallowing those?

Bow: Well, as I was saying earlier, I think they wanna like kind of handover the responsibility to somebody. (Deb: Right) So, it's not just them solely doing it themselves, there is somebody that's taking responsibility for them also. I mean they're taking it on themselves, yes, I'm killing myself. But this guy's helping me, so he is just as bad. You know, if it, if it turns out to be bad in the other world or whatever next like.

Luke: But he is also a medical doctor, he is, he is, like reviewing them, and he is like checking out their condition, and if he is, he is not some guy they met in a bowling alley or something. You know, he is, he's a educated man, he knows diseases (Deb: He's got qualifications) are gonna, he's qualified to say one or the other if it's viable.

Bow: You know, there's doctors that say, you have a month to live and there's nothing wrong with you. You know, you get a second opinion. (Luke: That's true tune up.) I suppose if ...

Deb: But I think he is.

Bow: If these people have gotten to the point where, they're gonna kill themselves. I think they've probably gotten second and third opinions.

Deb: Probably, you know, they definitely probably scoped out their options. And he is probably like a safe bet, you know, and he as far as assisted suicide goes, he's sort of the god father, you know, you can feel safe with him. He will take care of you, and he will get it done the way you want it.

Bow: He will kill you.

Cathy: But he even published a book about different ways to safely kill yourself, because I think that's a big concern. Because it is suicide, right? (Deb: Uho uh) But you don't know like, ok, if I swallow these pills what am I actually going to do? So here you have a book. (Deb: And suddenly you're a vegetable.)

Bow: Is that such a good idea, though, I mean, because it is available to the public for the people that have problems that can be (Luke: Cured) mental problems.

Cathy: I worked in Cole's bookstore in Canada, and his book was for sale.

Bow: I mean is it like uh, is it the right thing to do, or should it be like just given (Deb: Nice plug?) to medical community to, to hand out rather than like in Cole's Bookstore where anybody who's mental and wants to off themselves can buy it and find different ways to do it.

Luke: Yeah, it's sure. It's gotta be an enlightened decision, I think. It's not one that, I don't think anybody who does choose to do that, I don't think it's an easy one to come to. And some people who just wanna off themselves because they just can't take it anymore (Deb: Oh, Yeah)or for the sheer whatever of it. That's definitely not, that's not something that you'd like to open up.

Deb: That's beyond euthanasia, you know, well, that's, I think, you know, like Bow, the specific cases about people that are sick, and that, that you know.

Luke: But I mean it's a bookstore, it's like a trip to your local bookstore wherein and by making, by opening up too much, by making it a little too easy just to kill yourself.

Bow: As far as like marketing goes, I think that's kind of interesting, I mean that's a book that I'd like to read just for...

Cathy: It's interesting.

Deb: Yah, it would be interesting.

Bow: There are selling, you know, the popularity of it I think, it just not so cool, but...

Cathy: How about how you feel about this like ideally, this is how I think. Right now in the position that I'm in I would like to say that I'll live my life through the way that it's planned, if I'm meant to have a very painful long death then, I will do that. This is what I am saying now.

Deb: Sure.

Cathy: And if I have a family member who is going through a lot of pain, and wants me to help them kill them, I would like to say that I could also do that.

Deb: Right.

Cathy: So I don't know if that's contradictory.

Deb: No, I don't think it is because you're speaking of yourself, and you're also allowing someone that you love to have their own decision.

Bow: That's the problem with a lot of these topics is that we can think of our opinions but until we are actually in that position (Deb: Who knows?) Yeah, we don't really know, we can just guess what we (Deb: Which is interesting.) think it would be like.

Deb: Maybe more when the baby boomers do get to that point, is that they're the ones that are going to definitely put the final decision on it, you know. They will be the ones that are there going through death and pain and the whatever, that gets them to be end.

Bow: Yes, I think it's a really just urn, case by case, situation depends on the situation at the time if someone should be euthanized, depending on maybe finance, depending on urn, (Luke: Individual preference?) Exactly, (Luke: On, on, on family opinions.)

Deb: Yeah, definitely case by case I think, it's probably.

Cathy: You'd like to live in a place where the government said that it is legal.

Deb: Well, that it's your choice.

Cathy: Right.

Deb: Right? Legally it's your choice.

Cathy: Uh-uh.

Luke: Right, but also don't put too much hands in, too much power in the hands of just your average people. Also, although governments are kind of dumb, people are also kind of dumb, so they have to counter-balance each other. You don't want just everybody going around euthanizing themselves or,

Deb: And they are not gonna please everybody, but if they can definitely open up the door, but put restrictions on it. I think then you sort of you've got to at least, you can satisfy both sides somewhat, you know.

Luke: Alright, let's get out of here then.

Deb: Ya, I've got a class right now, so.

Cathy: That's ok, it was a good conversation guys, next time let's talk about something brighter.

Luke: A little more up.

Bow: OK, it's on you, Luke.

Deb: OK, thanks Luke, see you later.

Luke: I got the bill again, you guys, come back here. Ha ha ha ha.

sunyuting1 2008-06-08 12:13
分拆文本：


      1 . 第3册2.EuthanasiaA面开始到15分13秒的语音文本

2. Euthanasia


SIDE A


Hey guys
how are you doing?
Hey~~
What's up gang?
Oh!
How are you?
Righteous!
Righteous!
Good to see you,
man!

Deb:

What's been going on?

Bow:

Oh!
check it out, man.
In the newspaper today did you hear?
The Netherlands
just legalized euthanasia.

Daisy:

Really?

Cathy:

Really?

Bow:

Yeah!

Luke:

Euthanasia?
What's that?

Bow:

So like you know,
if you're sick,
and you're,
you're gonna die
and you have some chronic illness
that there is no cure for
and you're basically just gonna deteriorate,
deteriorate and deteriorate,
basically if you're
a citizen of The Netherlands
you can ask a doctor
to pull the plug sort of...
he will actually
let you die
or speed the process up.

Bow:

Oh, In Netherlands,
you can also marry your gay
partner.

Luke:

Yeah! Yeah!
They're very progressive there.

Deb:

They are very,
they're so liberal.

Luke:
Yeah~
you can't kill people
there without,
unless
they want to be killed.

Deb:

So it's a wanting
to die.
(Luke: I think so)
you have to want to die
for them to actually
let you
or speed up the process,
allow you to die.

Luke:

I think so. Yeah.
I don't know if,
I don't know if it allows for
, like if you don't
if you are a vegetable
or something
(Deb: Yeah)
say in a coma or something...)
I don't think
it allows for that,
I think you have to be
in your own mind..,
it has to be totally like..,
you have to be
(Deb: Coherent...)
yeah coherent you have to be
lucid and everything
to make the decision
for yourself.

Deb:

Oh~ I see.

Bow:

How about you Deb,
what if you are in a coma
would you want someone
to pull the plug on you?

Deb:

If I was in a coma? Um,
I guess if I was in a coma
for a really long time..,
but wait,
if you are in a coma
that doesn't necessarily
mean that you're.

Luke:

Doesn't mean
that you're dead.
You could come out of it.

Deb
: Right.

Bow
: Yeah! But what
if you would come out
but you got brain damage
would you want the plug be pulled?

Deb:
Uh... maybe.
Because I think then
I'd probably be a big burden of my family.
So yeah,
I think it would be very expensive
and very hard on them.
And you know
there's nothing
I can do to help the situation except
if they were to pull the plug
then I'm gone. It's...

Bow:

What about in a hypothetical situation
where there wouldn't be a burden a rich family
maybe that could support somebody,
you think and
there is no way
that they would come out of a coma
and if they did they'd be
a vegetable.
Do you think that uh.
..they have the right
to pull the plug?

Deb:

I still think it's really
it's just so emotional
for a family to have that
over their heads all the time,
and they're constantly..,
like I mean,
I think it probably affects your life
so much that they can' t move cities and
things without considering it. It's such a big consideration
if you have a family member
that's in a coma that you're
constantly caring for.
And it's not even about the money
more about the emotional um..
.the emotional taxation of it.

Cathy:

So you if were to pull the plug
on somebody like
this they would die right away.

Deb:

Yeah~

Luke:

Pretty much...

Deb:

What do you think
if you're really sick,
and it was a terminal illness,
and you weren't going to be get better,
then...you..
.it starts to hurt like that
the illness progresses
so much that you're in
so much pain,
you might live for another six months
but it's gonna be a painful six months.
Would you want to die sooner
rather than pull...
go through the whole
6 months of pain?

Cathy:

I think it's difficult to say
how you'd actually fee
l in the situation.

Luke:

Um,
say you've made your...

Deb:

How about you can take control
of the situation?
(Luke: Yeah!)
and say
I'm ready to go.

Luke:

Yeah.
If you have made your peace,
I mean if you've been through
this if this is something you've maybe heard about
a couple of years ago
or something,
your time is limited now
on this mortal coil,
and you're gonna be going out
eventually sooner or
later no one can say.
And then probably from that point on you,
you're gonna start coming to terms
with you your spirituality
or you know whatever your life is
the sum of all your experiences
or whatever.

Deb:

And as you start to sort of maybe
come to terms with that,
that's gradually like
giving you some peace of mind
then like...uh.
..they're pendulum.
There's all the pain it's coming.
It's gonna be a more and more painful that.
What would you do then?
Bow?

Bow:

If I was in the situation,
I would um...
have um...
somebody who was
responsible
for pulling the plug maybe look into
cryogenics?
(Deb: What's cryogenics?)
it is like freezing...
(Deb: Oh...then
you could be brought
back to life..
.later when they figured it all out...)

Luke:

Cure.

Bow:

Maybe something like that..
.um...
that's true.
yeah.
if you have unlimited funds now.
But if you have limited funds
then taxidermy,
would it be ok?

Deb:

So that your mom
could put you on a shelf?

Bow:

Well I mean think about
euthanasia is,
it's a big deal with humans
but it happens all the time
with animals,
my dog was euthanized
(Cathy: See? That's the thing)
and many dogs are.
I mean that's a life.

Deb:
I thought better
knowing
that our dog wasn't in pain
when that happened
with our dog,
that gives us a hard decision to make.
(Bow: Yeah~)
but at the same time like
the poor thing was suffering
so much,
it was in a lot of pain that
it was...
and that was even hard
for us to watch.
So imagine if it's human,
say it's your brother.

Cathy:

That's an interesting point.
It's like you're not just living this life
by yourself.
You're not just totally an individual
you're connected to everybody else,
so I think that decision would have to be
based on all of the people
that love you and,
by you as well.

Luke:

It wouldn't be an easy decision either
but I think
in order to define like
I guess for the family
who had to sit by and..,
either allow the person
to let themselves die
or to make the decision
for them.
It's not really killing
it's not really murder
at that point
because it's not only life that
is ending.
I mean I think
that if you're bedridden
and you're totally you've lost
all control over
(Deb: All your functions)
all your functions
that's not really living anymore,
it's sort of an in-between state anyways
(Deb: Right)
So I don't think
I don't know
I think it's a good thing
it's a progressive thought,
but an important one.

Cathy:

Yeah. I remember
I was talking to
one of my students
who had a father
who was dying
and he was telling me
how difficult
it was to see him going down
further and further and further,
and for the entire family
really so maybe something
like euthanasia would...

Deb:

Would be something that they
could grasp
and could actually give them a lot of peace of mind for the
whole family (Luke: Right)

Bow:

How about this thought like um
doctor Kervorkian
he is in court still now
and um...
(Cathy: So controversial.)
and um the thing that's
interesting to me is that
people give him permission
to kill them.
Then he injects them
with certain
medicines
I suppose and..,
then.., they die.
But urn,
these people if they really wanted to die
I mean maybe they chose him
because it's urn...
it seems medical
to them
or I mean
maybe jumping off a building
or cutting their wrists is just too gory
and but I mean I'm sure that they can
find other ways
that wouldn't be painful,
they could take some sleeping pills
if they really want to
(Luke: Sure)
but I think why they choose him is
because they want
someone else to have
responsibility for...
And so them saying
like I have problems
I did it to myself.
They want someone to say like
this guy feels the same way,
you know like,
he's responsible for..
.(Luke: An advocate kind of)
exactly.

Deb:

I saw a movie once.

And it was based on a true story
it was about this really old retired couple.
And I believe the wife
had Alzheimers
and she was really,
really, really sick and deteriorating.
And she couldn't even get off
the couch like
she was that sick,
and so her husband
actually took it upon himself
to kill her.
(Daisy: Really?)
Yeah.
He shot her twice.

Luke:

Oh.
I heard about that.

Deb:

Yeah.
Then he was on trial
but he was claim that
it was a mercy killing
and he loved his wife
all like for 50 years
or whatever that they were married
he loved her
. He did it
because he cared for her
not because
he wanted to get rid of her.
But because of the pain that he saw her in
... He wanted to alleviate that.
She couldn't actually
say to herself
she wanted to be killed...
He made that decision
for her.

Cathy:

But maybe they knew each other.

Deb:

But the people that knew him.
Exactly people that knew him
and knew their marriage
understood him,
that you know he wouldn't have
just murdered her.
It was out of love
it was because he cared for her
that's why
it was a mercy killing.

Cathy:
So what did the courts decide...

Deb:

I don't remember that.

Luke:

Probably he probably
got in trouble for that.
I mean,
it's...it's really brutal.
I think it's almost
kind of fascist
how the government takes
such an interest.
It is really like sort of ultimately
I think something like that
should be the individual's right.
You've gained a lifetime
of making your own decisions
on so many things
and then like some bureaucrats
are telling you,
you can't,
you can't end your life
even though like you're the one
who has to suffer through it,
you are the one
who has to put up
with all the waiting around.

Bow:

What was interesting like
in the States anyway
suicide is illegal.
It's against the law to
kill yourself.

Luke:

Yeah right.

Bow:

So..
.that's just
like a contradiction
almost because...

Cathy:

What are they gonna
do once you're dead?

Bow:

Arrest your corpse.

Deb:

Uh. there's also another story
I know about that
in Saskatchewan,
a father murdered his
thirteen or fourteen year old daughter.
She was severely retarded
and he shot her.
I believe ..
.I'd not sure if he shot her.
Actually...
he might have..,
but anyways he did kill her.
and he totally
owns up to that,
but he said you know
she was in so much pain
and it was too much.
He was very, very poor
so he couldn't even
put her in the proper facile..,
like give the proper facilities
to even make herself comfortable
any more.
(Cathy: Right)
So and again like that
I mean,
I think he's still
in court for that.

Bow:

And that's that would be like
a social problem,
wouldn't it? He couldn't...
he wasn't able to.

Luke:

Yeah that's a little dodger.

Deb:

Yeah that's the thing like.
I mean it's still arguable.
I mean she was in pain.
Yeah I guess it is more,
i see what you're saying but...

Luke:

She was in pain ..
.being retarded is painful?

Deb:

Well I think there might have other things
going on as well,
but like
I mean
so if you did just sort of like
carte blanche say,
ok euthanasia is ok.
Who knows
where that's gonna go?

Cathy:

Yeah. That's.
I think that's why the government
gets involved so much
because you could end up
killing somebody
and it could actually be a murder.

Deb:

Exactly people are always claiming they're insane
when they do things now
because insanity leads to like
three-year prison terms as opposed
to life prison terms.
So you know if people could suddenly claim like
, Oh no! I euthanized that person
then that gives
a whole new avenue.

Bow:

It's a good point.

Luke:

And that leads to other things too..
, like someone has is just gonna have a hard time of life
because they're not as equipped
in some like some respect
she's not smart enough,
she has a learning disorder he's got a bum leg
or something.
He's not gonna have a fighting chance
so I euthanized them.
Sort of reeks of,
master race,
some kind of weird filtering process...

Bow:

This was just in the paper
the other day..,
a situation
where a father in England
killed his daughter
because of her mental anguish.
So it's kind of along the same lines
. She was obsessed
with Manic Street Preachers
or something,
some guy
who in the band
had committed suicide
or something s
o she numerous times
tried to do that and...

Luke:

Commit suicide.

Bow:

Commit suicide
and she was just um
hurt emotionally
(Cathy: Tormented)
tormented
and her father um
helped her commit suicide,
he put a plastic bag
over her head and
then put a pillow over that.

Deb:

Oh God!
That is weird.

Cathy:

Then nothing was wrong
with her I think she was obsessed with.

Bow:

And the father called it a mercy killing.

Luke:

How old was she?

Bow:

Uh...she was about
maybe 24 or 25.
I don't remember exactly.
It was
in the paper the other day.

Deb:

My mom works in a hospice
in Calgary
and she's against euthanasia.
And like..,
completely against euthanasia
because she believes
that you can keep people comfortable
and just give them a lot of love
and support
and you can make them comfortable
and just help them get
through that time.
It can be painful
but you know...

Cathy:

Is a hospice is a place people go
when they're terminally ill?

Deb:

Yeah.
It's for terminally ill people.

Bow:

By the way
what's carte blanche?
So has anybody ever heard the stories of like
people coming out of comas
and what they've experienced
because I have never..,
like it was it peaceful for them
or they were in a dream state
or did they see the light.

Deb:

Lots of times you hear that
they can actually hear.
(Luke: Mm...)
but maybe not everything
all the time.
But
some things they hear.
Which is kind of interesting.

Bow:

Yeah.
Do they have feelings like..,
the fetus..,
does the fetus have feelings
at a certain stage.

Luke:

I think in situations
like that where other people
are deciding for the people
I don't know I think it
does have to be the families decision
and you know they're the ones paying the money
for it they're the people
who know it.
If the doctors
can guarantee the person's not gonna come out
or if they do come out they're just gonna be...

Deb:

But I think pulling
the plug is different
from euthanasia.

Luke:

Definitely.
Yeah.
If a person is trying to make an educated decision
about it
and an enlightened decision
and has made their peace with everybody
and with their decision
I think that's almost just a release in a way
like ok I'm ready to do this
I mean if you've been in pain
for this long you had much time
to come to grips with...

Deb:

And you're ready to go.

Luke:

Yeah.
The concept of death is not like
a scary idea anymore and.
.. you're welcoming it,
it's scarier to...
have to.
I can imagine having to spend 5 years
in a hospital bed
or something never getting out
and just being like waking up
in pain everyday.
That would suck...
I think you would come to
that decision
pretty quickly actually.

Deb:

Especially
when you know
it's deteriorating
and you're deteriorating
you know it's going to come,
death is coming like...
(Luke: Sure.)
And I think most people
when they come to the point
where they can actually make a decision
about euthanasia,
it's when they're that
close to death anyways,
their probably just a matter of
months away from death.
That it is not a question anymore
of will they get better and...yeah.

Luke:

There's a thing of death
with dignity as your last kind of act
as a living person
I guess would be dying
and I guess
if you could control sort of the way
that you go out.
I think that's sort of would be
a very comforting thought too
. I mean,
if you are just going be like,
going out screaming
and puking
and just making blood everywhere
or something,
a really gory scene
and just not at all like
in control of anything that's going on
and all of sudden you're just snuffed out
that's sort of like
a crappy way to be remembered.
That's not the way
you wanna go out of the world.

Bow:

You'd totally be
remembered for that.

Luke:

You'd be remembered for it.

Deb:

But if you even went through all of that
and then you're just sort of
in a coma
or whatever
until you die
like say you do go through all
these like spastic things
or whatever and suddenly like ok,
you're coherent
and suddenly you've got
so much pain
and you can't even talk anymore,
so you're not going to be able to
make anymore peace
at that point.
You're not gonna be able to say like
I'm ready to go,
like now you're just sort of like
hanging on
because they're making you
hang on
(Luke: Yeah)
until your body gives up
. (Luke: Yeah)
You know my mind's
ready to go and I wanna go.

Luke:

In a dignified way
(Deb: Yeah)
Just sort of like
close my eyes and ah--


sunyuting1 2008-06-08 17:06
分拆文本：


        2. 第3册2.Euthanasia A1的15分13秒到A面29分15.5秒结束的语音文本



Cathy:

See part of me believes
like um that
maybe there is a God
and maybe that my life
was planned
and I am here for a reason
and I was brought into
(Deb: A specific amount of time)
right,
I was brought into this world to
experience all of the things
that I'm going to experience
and death being part of it.
and in that sense
I would say that
if I'm going to argue that
completely
I would say that euthanasia is wrong,
because
it is my plan,
the plan that was ordained
for myself.
But again
I'm sitting in a comfortable position
I'm not terminally ill,
I'm not going through pain
so it's easy for me to say that
and I don't have a family
member like that.

Deb:

But also like..
. I'm sorry.
(Bow: Oh, go ahead.)
No I was just gonna say ok
even if you do believe in God,
God also gave you like
the faculties
to think of these things
and to come to these decisions
and these thoughts come from somewhere.
And you know
like if you do start to
go down the avenue of like you know what,
I think at this point
I'm ready to die,
I don't want to go down this
road
of just like deteriorating
and deteriorating.
And so somebody gave me these,
if God created you.
He also created you
with the mental capability
to come up with these ideas
and make these decisions so,
I think that that's even an arguable point
like maybe he wants me to
make this decision
for myself and
that's my lesson
that I need to learn.

Cathy:

Yeah,
that's quite possible.

Bow:

I would say
a similar thing
which is that
you're talking about
being pre- ordained or
destiny and what not ...
I mean..,
what if our destiny was to be
euthanaized,
what if that was
part of the plan?
I mean you can
never tell
really until
(Cathy: You can't.)

Luke:

Which is a good decision
and which is not yeah...

Bow:

Or if you're supposed to
live out your life naturally,
does that happen
or is the plug pulled,
from...under...uh
...when you're in coma
y'know maybe talking about
predestined plans
I believe in predestined plans,
but I think there's no way
to know
what that would ever be until
maybe we get the answers
when we die
I don't know.
(Cathy: Right)
We just have to
wait and see.

Luke:

And all the choices leading up
to that one choice too
. If it's not
your decision
then were all the previous decisions
and things you'd done
previous to it,
would those
have been negated too.
would those have been
faded too,
were you in control
of those parts.
So why not be in control
right up to the end
(Deb: Yeah...)
and make the final,
the greatest,
you know,
not the greatest decision.

Deb:

And possibly the most important
you know,
or like a certainly significant one
(Luke: Yeah.)
you know.

Luke:

That sort of like the period.
The final punctuation
on a long story
or something,
the final sentence
kind of thing --
how does it end?
You know.

Cathy:

I'm definitely for
individual freedom,
and um...
individual cases like
I don't think you can say
ok, yes,
euthanasia is ok.
(Deb: Right)
all the time,
a 100 %.
But it's like I believe that
every single case
you should be looked at differently,
like only you and your family
and those around you know your life
and if it's appropriate for you.

Luke:

A choice should
made available
to people though.

Bow:

You think by by..
. the Netherlands's legalizing it and saying
people do have the choice to do it.
That's ok,
they're saying,
the government is
taking their hands off that side of things.
And if people want yeah..,
people from there,
that doesn't mean that
if you're sick
you're gonna die
you gonna die,
we're gonna figure it
out for you.

Deb:

I'm sure that there's a lot of
hoops that you have to go
through to actually to get to the point
where you are even looked at
to be like for consideration of like
ok now you can be euthanized
if you want.
You probably have to go
through so many hoops.

Luke:

It's very very strict right,
like procedures you
got to go through yeah like.

Bow:

We're talking about
earlier the financial
aspect of it.
Now again hypothetically
what if there
were funds made available
to keep people alive.

Deb:

Like just like a kitty.

Bow:

I mean no..
.yeah like just dogs
and cats too
but people.
For example people ...

Deb:

No, no, no.
Like a kitty,
like a pot
of money
(Bow: Oh...ok)
whatever that's called.

Bow:

A piggy bank?
O.K.
Carte blanche?
But um
no, ok,
let's just say like
you know
it was just free
just um
there's extra taxes
to have people
like to keep them
alive until
maybe there's a chance to
find a cure or
freeze them and put
more money into that.
So then would you all agree
that just in cases of
where people are in extreme pain,
that they should be
euthanized?

Luke:

Yeah I don't think anybody
should be able to do it.
Well actually I kinda do.
..I think no one should be able to say
whether or not
you can make this decision
over your own life,
that's your life.
(Cathy: No...)
How can the government
take it upon themselves to say no
we think you should be
you should be hooked up to a life-support system
for next five years.

Bow:

But I mean the people that are in comas,
that can't make their own decisions.

Luke:

Yeah... that's..,
more or
like the mercy killing
kind of thing.

Cathy:

I believe that laws should
exist in order to like,
so people can be happy
and not like...
something should not be legal
if it's going to hurt
somebody else or
themselves right.
Following that line,
if you are terminally ill
and you're suffering a great deal of pain
and your family's suffering
a great deal of pain
it should be ok
for you to end your life.
Now whether or not
you believe in God
or all these other things they might also
come into play
when you're personally making that decision.
(Deb: Exactly)
But the government shouldn't say t
his is not allowed. I
don't believe in that
I believe,
the least regulations
as possible.

Luke:

Yeah...
there should be a window where
by people can empower themselves
at that stage of the game
I think.
But of course
you need also
it also
I think really
freaks people out about it.
I don't think a lot of people
have a problem
with the main idea
of people in that situation
having the right to
end their own lives.
But I think
worrying about
opening the door
a little bit more,
you sort of let that
go through
oh ok then.

Deb:

And then what..,
and then what
how much more.

Luke:

Yeah it sort of progresses
and progresses..,
and then anybody
who wants like ah
I got a stomachache
someone kill
me like.
But I guess that's where
the real issue sort of comes down
to is the whole love issue
and people around you
and how they
would react to
that whole thing too.
I mean
of course people aren't gonna be
happy with it if someone
close to you is on the verge of dying.
In most situations
I think people
would really
have a problem
with that.

Bow:

What?

Luke:

With...with..
.someone making the decision
to kill themselves
or making the decision
for them.

Bow:

What if they had
a big life insurance policy,
they might be happy.

Luke:

Well...
see there yeah and there's..,
people kill each other
for worse reasons.
Yeah...people who are doing really fine
, they kill each other too,
but that's the thing
when you...
when you make it
sort of open like
that it sort of...

Deb:

Gives people all the more reason
(Luke: Yeah)
people find all the more reason
(Luke: Yeah)
to be able to.

Luke:

People find an angle
to euthanize somebody.
I wanna euthanize
this guy over here.

Deb:

He's annoying me.

Luke:

Euthanize your ass.

Cathy:

I was reading about
Buddhism the other day,
and I heard this theory
actually
one of my students
told me this theory,
about Buddhism
that um your children
are people
whom in your past life
have really helped you
and now in this life
you must help them.
And your husband or
your wife
or somebody that you
really hated now
in this life you must
learn to love them.
(Deb: Ah~)
Yes, interesting,
and if it's true
for example,
let's say that your child
is very, very ill
and maybe they're gonna go
through an extended period of time
of suffering,
and as a parent it is maybe your job
in this life
to learn the lessons that you must
learn to take care of that sick person.
So in that case
euthanasia might not
be an option.

Bow:

Um,
so if you hate your wife
in this life,
then the next life
you love her.
Right?

Cathy:

Hopefully.
Then you've accomplished
that lesson.

Luke:

You can't euthanize her.

Bow:

Damn!

Luke:

Not an option!

Bow:

Damn!!

Luke:

What about with parents,
I think that the large...
the larger segment of people
who are up for this
idea
are the old folks
you know
and um..
.I mean
if you look at the Confucian society
like Korea
we were talking about it earlier,
the idea of
differing to older people and .
..showing respect to
older people that doesn't really fit
in to the whole idea
of euthanizing and killing off old people,
just because they're not gonna be productive
to themselves and
to the society anymore, is that...

Deb:

Goes against everything
(Luke: Yeah)
that they really believe.

Luke:

Almost like yeah
the opposite of the Confucian kind of ideal.

Cathy:

Well that kind of thing
has been happening
in societies
for ages like
if you look
at like anthropology
for example you can see y
ou know in these forging societies
you know if a member
is no longer to
add to the society
it's expected that they're going to be
left behind.
And left to die.
And that's considered...

Deb:

Is it ok is it
because they're sick that they can't
contribute anymore to their community
or is it they just don't...
they're lazy.

Cathy:

It could be
that they are sick.

Deb:

Whatever,
they just put them up to...

Bow:

Oh no.
I think uma lot of...um...
Asian societies
as well as other societies,
were based urn..
, they were farmers
and everything was based around the farm
so that's why
traditionally they prefer sons
because they can
work on the farm
and be more productive.
So yeah it make sense that um..
.when someone becomes
non-productive
they would..,
in a traditional sense
euthanize them.
And I've heard stories
in Korea where they
have those urn..,
they used to take those A-framed
backpacks that they used to carry wood on and
they put the grandfather on
and they bring him
and just leave him in the woods.
(Deb: Wow)
Yeah,
I mean what a way to go,
just been left alone
to nature.

Cathy:

Yeah that was considered
the way to go
, and you know,
your final sort of
gift to the society
while are you gonna keep pulling
and pulling
if you have no more nothing
to give.
(Deb: To offer)

Luke:

We can counter that argument
and say that
we are not hunter,
gatherer tribes anymore.
We have technology everywhere,
we have these machines,
millions of dollars
and years of research...

Deb:

You don't discard people
because they can't physically
contribute or whatever
even if they can't mentally,
like if they just can't contribute at all that
doesn't mean that they're just like
(Cathy: Maybe they have knowledge as well
that could be contributed.)

Bow:

That's kind of...
how...um..,
that's how tradition works though.
Even though in modern day society
where you have
a homogeneous society like
Korea um...
old traditions die hard
you know.
Some of the old traditions are
still very..,
pervasive and
(Deb: Very evident)
yes in Korea
the um...
the whole thing about
marriage and um..
.having a son
is still here
even in this modern
day society.

Deb:

So ok.
But they aren't putting their
ancestors
out to pasture anymore
sort of thing,
you know
I don't think they're still doing that so..
. they've come
y'know
they've moved,
they progressed in some ways,
and they're not doing that anymore
so then..,
do you think that they might be
they might lean toward
euthanasia then?

Bow:

Um...maybe...
I think in traditional days.
It depended on
class,
the class system,
so the more money you had,
the more affluent
you were,
the better mound you got with a
better grave site
and people take care of it,
whereas the poorer people would
, probably who worked on the farm
that's all they had,
that was their life,
you know take their grandparents out
to the woods
and leave them
. If that was my situation,
if my family was um...
of course
you know,
they loved me,
but they were poor,
and I had say
for example a life
insurance policy,
I would want them to
take me out.
Yeah I mean
that would benefit like
if say there's kids involved
that would...
they could live off of that
and you know go into ..
. (Deb: Right,
rather than it all
being spent.)
on... yeah,
me who
nobody knows
what's gonna happen.

Deb:
Or they do know that
you will die,
y'know,
they know
that's coming.
What's the point
putting money into?
(Bow: Exactly)

Luke:

The idea of also
having a fund for
making lives last longer
I think it's sort of
where it's needed.
I mean there's so many other things people
who need to get started on a
life and they're gonna have
a sub-standard life
from day one.
Those maybe are lives that
we could improve on,
if you look at in more of a holistic sense of course
you always have stronger loyalties
to your family
and your loved ones
, the people
who are close to you
and so
if you had the money
you're gonna put it
towards them
and their quality of life
(Deb: But maybe
we need to look more
at the community
and things and)
yeah...and there's a global community
as well
it's like people
who had their time
and it didn't quite work out for them maybe
and they're sort of on their way out now
and that's where it's sort of,
yeah, the individual,
if the individual actually is saying
I'm volunteering man
(Deb: I'm ready to go)
I'm out of it yeah...

Deb:

So then the money that
almost would have been spent say
for the next following six months
that would have kept them
just barely alive
or just barely comfortable
that money could
almost be put into the community
or whatever to jump start...
(Luke: Hopefully yeah)
hopefully get some kids off
to a better start
or something
if they're..,
they're living below the poverty line
or something that
y'know
you can save money
if it's about money.
Y'know
you can save money here
and put it back into the community this way
or something.

Luke:

Often you have the families of someone
who has whatever disease it is
and there is no cure for it
and that's
why you're going out.
The money that you would spend to keep yourself
alive could it make a fund to find a cure for that disease.
Irradiate them one
by one in that way
and do the greater good,
sort of take one for the team.
I think there's a lot of
dignity in that.
It's a very noble way to die.
I think...I think..,
that would lend
a great poetry to..
.to a death.

sunyuting1 2008-06-08 18:15
分拆文本：

                    3. 第3册2.Euthanasia  B2的29分15秒到44分14.3秒的语音文本

Cathy:

What about the
aspect of love,
though?
If you love somebody,
would you want them to
kill themselves
before let's say,
they would naturally die,
or would you want,
because you love them,
you don't want to
see them
go through pain?

Deb:

Ok.

Cathy:

Like, do you have?

Deb:

No, I was just gonna say
like no, ok,
like for our own family
members,
whatever. Urn,
I have a grandfather that's
got Alzheimer's
really badly,
he is not so bad now,
but we all sort of know
that it's going to get pretty bad.
(Cathy: Right)
I'm kind of all for it,
if it gets to a point.
Can we use euthanize him
because he's out of his head?
He is in pain.
He doesn't understand anything.
(Cathy: Uh-uh)
Once he gets to
a point where
it's really like
that traumatic
for the family,
like emotionally
traumatizing
for the family
or whatever.
Let the poor guy go.

Bow:

Is he in pain,
though?
I mean,
it's..,
it's in the mind
. I mean,
what is he actually feeling,
I don't know,
if you can...

Deb:

But when it gets to a point where,
like he doesn't get,
I mean,
he hasn't had a shower
in a month apparently.
You know
what I mean?

Bow:

Is it bothering him?
Or it that bothering
other people?
But he doesn't care.

Deb:

No, but,
but I think that it
does get to a point
where they,
they maybe can sort of like
lose all functions,
lose all bodily functions,
they don't even get up any more,
they just don't.
Maybe they start to lose
more like
it spreads out beyond,
Alzheimer's whatever,
I don't know.

Luke:

It's just like a really slow,
slow death then,
(Deb: Yeah, it's)
an excruciatingly
slow death.
And I think it's that's,
uh, it's not really love any more.
If it's love,
it's more selfish love at that point,
because you want,
you want grandpa around you.
(Deb: Sure you do.)
You want these people around you
, of course you do.
And I don't think there's any guilt in,
in sort of saying like,
let's let him go,
let's let him have a nice,
a nice exit sort of thing.

Deb:

Ya, ya, ya.

Bow:

You're into that,
nice poetic.

Luke:

That nice poetic exit,
yeah.
No,
you don't want to go out
with a lump in your pants
and some nurse is.

Deb:

Absolutely you know,
you know,
that's,
that's just the way
that I see it
. I think that
if it came to that,
I think I'd rather see him go
than hang on to him,
just and have all the family
just
(Cathy: That's a very...)
just, I mean
it's out of love that
we'd let him go
not out of you know.

Bow:

Yeah, speaking of the love
and speaking of urn,
Steven King
who we we're just talking about earlier,
the movie,
uhm, Dolores Claiborne?
(Cathy: Alright.)
(Deb: Oh, Yes)
What's about that?
About this woman
who was a real bitch
(Deb: That's a great movie)
and she, um,
she wanted to die,
but the love that she had
for Dolores her made,
she treated her like a shit
for her whole life,
and she asked
Dolores,
you know will you kill me,
and she,
what she throws her down the stairs
or something,
(Deb: I can't remember the end,
but it's an awesome movie,
I remember
I really like it.)
and she, uh,
she left her her money,
I think.
(Deb: Yeah, actually,
she did leave her money,)
and then,
it turns out in the end
that she really did love her.
It was just her way of showing it,
and Dolores ended up,
uh, killing her.

Luke:

Right out of love,
out of love.

Deb:

Yeah, because probably,
but also probably
because that was a sort of relationship
where you do
what I say.

Bow:

Right,
You must kill me.

Deb:

No, but out of respect,
she did.
You know,
and 'cause also she had the upper hand
at that point,
she could've totally
turned the tables,
and made her life
a living hell.

Cathy

: Let's say,
for example,
you have a love like your husband
or your wife,
and they're terminally ill
and they say,
listen I'm in so much pain,
I don't wanna live anymore,
would you please kill me?
Because I,
for some reason this person
can't do it themselves.
Would you be able to do something
like that?
Would you be able to
euthanize somebody
that you love?
(Bow: I wouldn't be able to.)

Deb:

Well, I don't think I could.
(Bow: I couldn't.)
I don't know it'd be really hard.
Because,
again,
like you would be in that every special case,
where I'd have to sort of be in the situation
looking at it going,
well yeah,
you're really sick,
I know you're not gonna get better
it's the hardest decision to make,
and so maybe
I would be the person
that would be like I'll see
what I can do,
I'll try, you know,
talk to a doctor
who can get some pills..,
or something to.

Bow:

It depends of the method of death.
(Daisy: Right)
Shooting them
or putting, you know...

Cathy:

I have trouble killing a cockroach.

Deb:

You know,
not me.

Cathy:

No?

Luke:

If it was more like a sledge hammer
or something...
I wouldn't wanna do it.
There are,
there are,
There are very peaceful ways
to kill the person.

Cathy:

That would be a very difficult thing
to have to do.
(Luke: Sure)

Bow:

What do you think about,
ok, this is like not people but,
back to animals again
(Deb: OK)
like uhm,
the Chinese recently,
uh, the people it was in Hongkong,
all these chickens had
diseases,
(Deb: Oh, the flu!)
The flu!
So they killed like uh,
a million five hundred thousand chickens
by putting them
in barrels and
gassing them.
That's carbon dioxide.
That's a form of
euthanasia,
I guess.
Genocide chicken genocide?

Luke:

Um,
but people kill poultry everyday anyway.
Poultry is going down
and they're raising poultry,
to kill poultry
(Bow: To eat, though)
to eat!
but just to kill them to
knock out a disease.
(Cathy: Like Mad Cow disease as well.)
Yeah, it just...

Deb:

But is it a threat to like
humans, right?
Like I mean,
(Bow: But I think they don't know.)
because if they are just looking
at the natural order,
of course,
the chickens gotta go.

Bow:

How about like, uh,
a lot of cats every year and
dogs in America are euthanized
just because of population
. Is that,
do you believe in that,
do you think that
they should be doing that.
Is there other ways to
solve the problem?

Cathy:
Yes,
the humane society has a rule if the animal
is after three months in the place,
they have the right to kill it,
to kill it afterward so...

Bow:

But do you think that's right?
or do you think that there
would be other ways of controlling that?

Cathy:

I think it's pretty bad
actually.
(Bow: Uh-uh)

Luke:

It's unfortunate I think,
but I mean it's,
it's I think a necessary evil,
I mean if people don't fix their animals,
they (Deb: Right, right)
will. That's their nature.

Bow:

OK, what about China
who's got almost a billion people
. Are they gonna start doing it just
because they didn't neuter each other.

Luke:

Well, they are trying to do,
uh, like zero-growth population.

Deb:

They are trying to implement that.

Bow:

But it's not gonna work,
you are going against procreation?

Cathy:

But yeah you are thinking about that
like there are
so many people
in the world,
and there's only a certain number
of resources.
(Bow: Yeah, what happens
when there's not enough food?)
Elderly people are taking
a lot of money
and stuff like this,
so if you wanna...

Luke:

Yeah, aging populations,
this probably gonna be a really big issue
in about twenty years
when baby boomers all start hitting that age
(Cathy: Oh, yeah)
like our parents' age
kind of thing,
when they start getting up to that age,
and they're gonna,
want rights. It's just gonna be a
really important weird thing,
(Cathy: It is.)
Because they are used to being people
who always made all the rules.
(Deb: Made the decisions)
When, when everything was starting to
really get going this century.
And I think you're gonna probably,
you'll see more
where they're
coming from and things.

Luke:

I think that that's the just the way,
they'll want to do it.

Deb:

And they could again
be the decision makers for that,
because there are
so many of them,
and probably a lot of them will be like,
you know what?
I don't want to die
in this way,
I want to go this way.

Cathy:

That could be
a turning point.

Deb:

Because there's gonna be like
a loud voice at,
at some point.
There probably will be a loud voice
of baby boomer's
wanting it that way.

Bow:
It's very interesting
because it's like, uhm,
with the idea
of passing new legislation
on allowing people to
euthanize family members
or people that wanna die allowing them to die,
there's also new technology coming out that is
helping them to live longer
or cryogenics that,
you know,
might work.
So it's like a battle against
the two things,
like uh,
which one is gonna win?
Is it gonna be,
like we are gonna sustain
life longer or,
or they're just gonna just kill people
at the drop of a dime ?

Deb:

I'd like to see them,
well I mean who wouldn't,
but like obviously like,
find cures for diseases.

Luke:

Yeah, I think,
I think the trend is gonna be
try to extend life.

Deb:

Well, ya,
I know that's what you're saying too,
but also like,
as ya, well ya,
I'd like to see life
be able to go on
in a, in a...

Luke:

Educated way,
I mean.

Deb:

Yea, like in a way that
they're contributing
whatever,
in a way
that they're there like,
coherently there.

Cathy:

That's an interesting
point like to find cures,
say for example,
you have AIDS,
you have cancer,
those are pretty you know
, terrible ways to die,
and you are at the point like,
ok, I don't wanna live any more,
this really sucks,
you kill yourself,
and a month later they come up with a cure,
hypothetically
that could happen.
(Luke: Sure, yeah)

Daisy:

It totally could, but...

Bow:

Well, I mean it has happened,
it has happened
with like polio and
stuff before they came up
with a vaccine people die
from it or
tuberculosis things like that.

Deb:

And there is no point in dwelling on it I don't think,
because this is the decision you made
and if you chose to be euthanized
and like two days later,
they discovered the cure for
your disease,
you know,
you made that decision,
and there is nothing anybody can do to change it,
you know,
maybe your family is gonna feel a little bit badly,
but they let you go through that.
But, you know what,
they are gonna have to get over
it it's a sort of
why dwell on it
, you know.
And you could spend way
too much time to...

Luke:

And you can always explore your options.
I mean if you're like,
I'm thinking abou
t maybe killing myself,
but if you look into it
, you know,
you can say
(Deb: And you see that it's close.)
yeah there is there something on
the horizon
(Deb: We're going to know.)
or thousands of miles away.
Basically,
we have no idea
what you have
. It's gonna get worse
and worse,
like exponentially by the day.

Cathy:

Have you ever seen that
movie Lorenzo's oil?
(Bow: Yeah)
Something like
this is good?

Bow:

There's also a movie uh,
the Michael Landon Story?
Where uh,
he had cancer
and the son was trying to
get these medicines from,
from Mexico that would cure his uh
, prostate cancer
or something.
Michael Landon was just like,
no son this is just my uh.
.. (Luke: Oh, really?)
You will, you will suffer,
he was just like this is
what happened to me,
this is my destiny,
leave me alone.

Luke:

Yeah, I suppose there's, t
here's...
(Deb: There're something there.)
cause he lived a full life
or something.

Bow:

Yeah he had all the fame and fortune,
and bunch of kids,
and a bunch of wives,
and jewels.

Luke:

Ok, I really think,
Yeah,
I mean
, some people would feel like
they maybe they really would wanna die.
I mean,
maybe they're sick and they're...

Deb: And that's why it's your choice.

Luke:

It's the choice,
it's not like you have to die
and stuff.
But I don't think people should be
so freaked out by the idea.

Deb:

They should be allowed to
have the choice.
(Luke: Right, right)

Cathy:

But what you were saying
before about the power of the mind.
I think that's something
you know like I've seen many movies,
and you know the last scene is like
I'm dying now.
But how do you know that?
You have made that
decision to die
at that point.
And you have come to terms
with everything
in your life even like the unconscious things
you don't even think exist.
So, if you really wanted to die,
maybe you could just die through
your mind's power.

Deb:

My mom says
that happens a lot like
at the hospice
and stuff like that.

Luke:

They decide one night
, I think I'm not gonna do it anymore.

Deb:

Oh, No. One story that
she told me was a man
that had AIDS
or whatever,
and his boyfriend was there
and he would stay
and stay and stay.
He wanted to be there
for his last moment.
And he finally said
, the sick guy said,
you know,
why don't you go get a cup of coffee
and so he left and then he went.
And then he came back and he was gone.
And my mom had to explain,
you know.
It's amazing
people will choose
their time to go.
(Luke, Cathy: Yes)

Cathy:

I think, I think,
that's true,
so like maybe somebody that
thinks that they wanna die
, they wanna have euthanasia,
maybe they don't really
want to there's some part of them,
that is still hanging on to life.
Or maybe see people
that just hang on,
hang on,
why is that?

Bow:

Maybe they think they can make it,
make it through.

Deb:

Well, also even
when people are told
that they have terminal illness,
you have six months to live,
lots of people will die.
That's a powerful statement to say
you've got six months to live.
Lots, lots of people live,
people will die
within that six months,
because they suddenly give up,
but maybe had they not heard those words.
They'd just think well
, they'll just continue,
and continue,
and continue.
They can't.

Cathy:

Yeah, I've heard of that,
I've heard of that before,
after, right after your doctor says
you're gonna die,
you die shortly after.

Bow:

Yeah, I totally believe
in the power
of the mind
(Deb: Suggestion almost)
I think there's a lot more
to our minds
than we know,
than we are more capable of using.

Deb:

And so then,
if you did open up the avenue
of euthanasia,
then suddenly that avenue
gets a little bit
becomes more of a dead end.
Because suddenly,
it's like well,
I'm allowed to go,
so I'm gonna go.
Less people will maybe
choose to try and fight it out
or use their own power
, their own mind to come through it.

Cathy:

Right.
Maybe if euthanasia
was allowed
and you felt like this burden
like your family
is going through this huge financial burden,
maybe then you say,
ok, kill me.
But maybe really you're not
completely ready to die,
because if you were,
your mind would shut up
and accept that,
and you would die.
Or maybe we haven't really
learned to use our minds completely,
(Bow: I think so.)
and so we can expect that
everybody that wants to die,
could do it themselves that way.

Deb:

It's wow.

Luke:
But I mean a lot of these decisions.

Daisy:
It's so much to think about it.

Luke:

A lot of the situations though,
it's often uh,
a case of like,
not actually being um,
given anything,
you're not actually being killed per se
but often just left,
just left alone.
I mean just like stop the machines,
stop all the gadgets
and stuff,
(Deb, Cathy: Right)
because maybe you are being
forced to stay alive.
Even though you are well passed,
just like,
just let me go,
or just take me away.
But because you got this state of the art equipment hook,
hooked up to you and stuff that's
like literally keeping your heart pumping and stuff.

Cathy:

Manually keeping you alive
that supposedly.

Luke:

Then you could conceivably
and theoretically
live forever,
why not,
you know.

Bow:

But I think that idea of being
hooked up,
and having that technology
is because
there is hope
that they will
maybe miraculously,
oh, we just found
this medicine in Uganda,
and the whatever,
and uh,
here take it now,
you're better.
That's the whole idea of that.

Luke:

It's a race against time
or something.

Bow:

Exactly, and so it's like we gotta try everything
that's humanly impossible
(Deb: Right)
to keep this person alive
as much as we can.
And if we can find it.

Cathy:

Maybe we shouldn't think of life
and death as two completely separate things.
Right,
you're living in life,
and you're dying.
Every day every minute,
we are all dying,
we all accept that fact.
(Deb: One closer step to death.)
Right? And so,
that the death is just
a course of living.

Bow:

Well, that's yeah,
I guess in
a certain religion,
that's the idea,
but I mean,
Buddhism is not like that.
It's like a cycle,
so you're living,
you're dying,
you're living,
you're dying.
Maybe they might think
another way.
That’s not,
we're not getting closer to death,
but we are getting closer to uh,
(Deb: A new life)
an anniversary.
(Luke: And the government...)

Cathy:

But getting close to,
I think, to that point
, right? Whether it's a death
or it's the start of a new life,
we are always getting closer
to that point.
And so do you wanna rush the process
, or do you wanna just let it go.

Luke:

The thing is the people that make the rules
, like the government.
They don't see it in terms of,
you know
, the Buddhist stance or,
you know,
the continuum sort of
from life into death.
They just see it as tax paying citizen
(Deb, Cathy: Right.)
stiff, you know,
that's really,
they're the ones
who are making the decision.
And who are basically regulating for
the majority of the people
whether or not they
have control over them.

Deb:

They make decisions
that aren't based on.

Bow:

But if they didn't regulate it
, then I think it would get out of hand
(Luke: I agree)
like we talked about earlier
. So they have to regulate somewhat.
Because that's what governments
set up for to
regulate things
would get out of hand,
it'd be chaos.
(Deb: Regulations)


sunyuting1 2008-06-08 20:19
分拆文本：

      4.Euthanasia的B面44分15秒到56分15秒结束的语音文本


Cathy:

If you're in charge of a society,
right,
you want every single member
of your society
to be adding something
to the society.
Right?
And that's like
maybe a long time ago,
and these like
forging societies,
people had to
keep moving,
it would make sense to
leave the elderly people behind,
because
they cannot move.
Maybe in a farming community,
it might be nice to keep the old people alive
because they have
a lot of traditions,
stories,
and knowledge
to give to the younger generation.
So in this society,
we have to think, ok,
people
who are terminally ill,
what are they adding to society.
And they are actually
adding something.
They are adding something
I don't know.

Deb:

Well, That is ok,
but if they are, they could be,
because if they are
willing to try a new drug,
they are the ones
who are the sick.
Right?
(Cathy: Right)
So they are the ones
who are going to respond to the drug.
They needs sick people to try
(Bow: They're guinea pigs)
experimental drugs on
. (Cathy: OK, guinea pig is one)
Yeah, so they are,
they are contributing in some way,
you know,
like even
if they are not physically fit or whatever,
you know like
they're still making
their body available
to say like,
ya.
I will try that new experimental drug
because
even if it doesn't work,
at least you'll know.
And that will
get you off this page
and on to a new page.
(Cathy: Right)

Luke:

And also they have a
unique vantage point being
so close to death,
and still among the living,
you know,
and they a have unique prospective
in that way.

Cathy:

That's right, because.

Luke:

That's something that
a lot of people will never
like we say,
we can't really conceive of it,
you know,
because it's hard for us to say
unless we've actually
been there,
or been that close to it or something,
(Bow: That's actually is)
uh, the perspective thing,
they offer.

Bow:

Another problem with
government regulations uh,
on the bad side of it is that urn,
these people that
want to try
new drugs
to try to stay alive,
or guinea pigs are,
are regulated by the government
and they are not letting them
try these new drugs
that might actually
do something
or a combination of something
or they don't let them
try it like
(Deb: They aren't so accessible.)

Bow:
Because it might be harmful
or something.
(Luke: Exactly,
It might worsen the situation.

Bow:

Right now in South Africa,
there is a pharmaceutical company that
has developed a generic
form of the AIDS medication.
And the government is not
letting them produce it
which is really sad
because that's where they say
you know most of AIDS cases are
is in Africa.
That's like the hub of it.

Deb:

Why?
Do you know why?

Bow:

Urn, Because it hasn't been
tested enough,
and what not,
but urn...

Cathy:

Maybe it's expensive as well,
I think.

Bow:

That's the generic brand that's
why they're making it,
because it'll be cheap
for the people.

Cathy:

Oh, for the masses.

Bow:

For the masses.
That's the idea.
And that's why,
and that's the problem.

Luke:

But it might have side effects,
doesn't
(Bow: It might) it might actually make it worse
. But it might make it better.

Bow:

Yeah, so like I'm sure there's many people
that are saying Yeah,
give it to met.
(Deb: Yeah, exactly,
to be that person to be like,
woah,
I gotta third arm now,
so don't be given this out any more,
you know like.

Luke:

That's where the government
actually sort of like has to back off
cause it is,
it is down to an individual decision.

Bow:

I don't know
cause I mean,
because the government was one
that started AIDS
in the first place.

Luke:

Oh, you're a such
conspiracy theorist.
(Bow: Yeah)
That's not.

Deb,

Luke:

That's not true.

Bow:

That's not?

Luke:

You don't know that it is
. It probably is, but...

Cathy:

We don't know for sure.

Luke:

Let's not talk it about anyway.

Cathy:

Only the strict facts here,
(Bow: OK,)

Cathy, Bow:

Euthanasia.

Luke:

Euthanasia.
Well,
is it fair that
rich people have like,
all the access
(Bow: Have all the money?)
If you only have the two options,
like get really cool like
cutting edge technology
to keep yourself alive,
or you can have euthanasia.
Poor people will only have
one of those options.
The euthanasia option.

Deb:

And it's their own
form most likely cause...

Luke:

You're right.

Bow:

Well, I believe,
I mean,
in life with everything else,
it's just like the,
uh, the cards that
you have been dealt.
You're poor,
you're rich,
you're middle class,
that's what your life is.
That's what you've
been given
in this life anyway.
And um,
if you do have more opportunities
to have a bigger house
, and a swimming pool
. If you have
more opportunities to
keep yourself alive longer
because you have more money than.
That's just the way it goes.
That's what I think.

Luke:

And I think that
that's where rich people come in handy
when they get terminal diseases,
they are very handy,
in that way.
Because they will actually,
only when people do start trying to,
yeah they have to
develop the stuff,
but people have do it
before it can be more developed and,
it has been studied and stuff.
That's where they sort of just lead the way,
and eventually,
it will trickle down to
other people with maybe,
less money
(Bow: Right)
hopefully.

Bow:
Of course,
like um,
poor people
a lot more poor people die first
before rich people.
For example
, I have been thinking about
this recently,
um, Magic Johnson has,
had AIDS
for what like 10 years now,
maybe.
(All Yeah)
And you don't hear of him
ever being sick and
going to the hospital?

Deb:

Because he's
got the money to...

Bow:
To take his AZT cocktails.

Deb:

Well that,
he is probably taking other
other experimental drugs
and things,
he can probably sort of select like,
well, Ya,
this one on paper looks like it's been,
it's really strong like
it's a good drug to take.
This, what you know,
as far as experimental drugs go,
he can at least have the choices
for which experimental drugs,
and he gets
so many more opportunities
to get those drugs.

Luke:

He can afford it,
and he can try it,
and he's got nothing to
lose by trying all these drugs
. So he's actually making a,
what he is doing is
benefiting
all of mankind
because,
if it works on him,
then it'll work on the average people.
And then that's an avenue
that we can continue
to pursue,
you know,
in that,
in a scientific sense,
do the studies on it and stuff.
He's gone into total remission almost with it,
you know.

Bow:

Doesn't it also cause like people to say,
look at him,
he didn't die.
So I'm not gonna like protect myself,
they're gonna come up with a cure.

Deb:

But I mean only an idiot would say that,
because,
well no,
really because
I mean obviously he is in a different,
um, like if you wanna look at it as a class
(Bow: Social class)
whatever.
Ya. He is way up there
in a high bracket
and stuff,
only a fool would think that
that's all it was,
was oh,
he is just another guy,
he is not just another guy,
he is another rich guy
that has...

Bow:

But as he may be saying
that trickles down
they're just saying well,
I can make it,
I can stay alive long enough
until it trickles down.

Luke:

Your kidding yourself
if you think
it's gonna happen
that quickly like you're still.

Deb:

It's gonna take a lot of time.

Luke:

Most people
who're dying of AIDS
are no where near,
what's his face uh
, Magic Johnson's bracket,
you know,
and most people
who are suffering
from something like AIDS
live in,
you know,
the least developed countries
in the world,
you know.
They just will never develop,
they make,
he makes in thirty seconds
what they make in a year
kind of thing.
(Bow: Right)
to put in into perspective,
so, I don't know
if that's the best tact to take.

Cathy:

So do you think
that from that perspective
that euthanasia should be
available to poor people as an option?
Because they can't afford,
you know,
the pain saving devices that
a rich person could?

Luke:

I think it's market,
market influences supply
and demand if people want,
if people want to be
put out of their misery,
they can find a way
to put themselves out of their miseries.
It's all market flux,
you know.

Deb:

But then, ya,
like it,
it almost seems
what sort of is a fine line,
is euthanasia and suicide?
(Cathy: Right)
Like, it's,
I mean,
it's basically it's you killing yourself,
you making the choice to die.
(Cathy: Right)
Right?
Ya, ok, ya,
if it is assisted or whatever.
But is that not what Kervorkian does,
though?
He has it set up.
He has,
he sets up the little like
whatever it is.
And you push the button,
when you are ready to go,
you push the button.
So it's basically you killing yourself.
Ya, I guess, I...

Cathy:

I think that is
euthanasia
in the strictest terms,
right,
like assisted suicide.

Deb:

But I mean,
otherwise, ya,
if that person could just get a hand,
get their hands
on a bunch of sleeping pills or whatever,
would they take
the chance of just swallowing those?

Bow:

Well, as I was saying earlier,
I think they wanna like
kind of handover the responsibility
to somebody.
(Deb: Right)
So, it's not just them solely doing it themselves,
there is somebody that's
taking responsibility
for them also.
I mean they're taking it
on themselves,
yes, I'm killing myself. But this guy's helping me,
so he is just as bad.
You know, if it,
if it turns out to be bad
in the other world
or whatever next like.

Luke:

But he is also a medical doctor
, he is, he is,
like reviewing them
, and he is like
checking out their condition,
and if he is,
he is not some guy they met
in a bowling alley or something.
You know,
he is,
he's a educated man,
he knows diseases
(Deb: He's got qualifications)
are gonna,
he's qualified to say
one or the other
if it's viable.

Bow:

You know,
there's doctors that say,
you have a month to live
and there's nothing wrong with you.
You know,
you get a second opinion
. (Luke: That's true tune up.)
I suppose if ...

Deb:

But I think he is.

Bow:

If these people have gotten to
the point where,
they're gonna kill themselves.
I think they've probably gotten
second and third opinions.

Deb:

Probably, you know,
they definitely probably scoped
out their options.
And he is probably like
a safe bet,
you know,
and he as far as assisted suicide goes,
he's sort of the god father,
you know,
you can feel safe with him.
He will take care of you,
and he will get it
done the way you want it.

Bow:

He will kill you.

Cathy:

But he even published
a book
about different ways to
safely kill yourself,
because I think that's
a big concern.
Because it is suicide,
right?
(Deb: Uho uh)
But you don't know like, ok,
if I swallow these pills
what am I actually going to do?
So here you have a book.
(Deb: And suddenly you're
a vegetable.)

Bow:

Is that such a good idea,
though,
I mean,
because it is available
to the public for the people
that have problems that can be
(Luke: Cured)
mental problems.

Cathy:

I worked in Cole's bookstore
in Canada,
and his book was for sale.

Bow:

I mean is it like uh,
is it the right thing to do,
or should it be like just given
(Deb: Nice plug?)
to medical community to,
to hand out
rather than like
in Cole's Bookstore
where anybody
who's mental
and wants to off themselves can buy it
and find different ways to do it.

Luke:

Yeah, it's sure.
It's gotta be an enlightened decision,
I think. It's not one that,
I don't think anybody
who does choose to do that,
I don't think it's an easy one
to come to.
And some people
who just wanna off themselves
because they just can't take it anymore
(Deb: Oh, Yeah)
or for the sheer whatever of it.
That's definitely not,
that's not something
that you'd like to open up.

Deb:

That's beyond euthanasia,
you know,
well, that's
, I think,
you know,
like Bow,
the specific cases about
people that are sick,
and that,
that you know.

Luke:

But I mean it's a bookstore,
it's like a trip to your local bookstore wherein
and by making,
by opening up too much,
by making it
a little too easy
just to kill yourself.

Bow:
As far as like
marketing goes,
I think that's kind of interesting,
I mean that's a book
that I'd like to read just for...

Cathy:

It's interesting.

Deb:

Yah
, it would be interesting.

Bow:

There are selling,
you know,
the popularity of it I think,
it just not so cool, but...

Cathy:

How about
how you feel about
this like ideally
, this is how I think.
Right now in the position
that I'm in I would like to say
that I'll live my life through the way
that it's planned,
if I'm meant to have a very painful long
death then,
I will do that.
This is what I am saying now.

Deb:

Sure.

Cathy:

And if I have a family member
who is going through a lot of pain,
and wants me to help them kill them,
I would like to say
that I could also do that.

Deb:

Right.

Cathy:

So I don't know
if that's contradictory.

Deb:

No, I don't think it is
because you're speaking of yourself,
and you're also allowing
someone that you love
to have their own decision.

Bow:

That's the problem
with a lot of these topics is that
we can think of our opinions
but until we are actually
in that position
(Deb: Who knows?)
Yeah, we don't really know,
we can just guess
what we
(Deb: Which is interesting.)
think it would be like.

Deb:

Maybe more
when the baby boomers do get
to that point,
is that they're
the ones that are
going to definitely
put the final decision on it,
you know.
They will be the ones
that are there going through death
and pain
and the whatever,
that gets them to be end.

Bow:

Yes, I think it's a really just urn,
case by case,
situation depends
on the situation
at the time
if someone should be euthanized,
depending on
maybe finance,
depending on urn,
(Luke: Individual preference?)
Exactly,
(Luke: On, on, on family opinions.)

Deb:

Yeah,
definitely
case by case
I think,
it's probably.

Cathy:

You'd like to live in a place
where the government
said that it is legal.

Deb:

Well, that it's your choice.

Cathy:

Right.

Deb:

Right?
Legally it's your choice.

Cathy:

Uh-uh.

Luke:

Right,
but also don't put too much hands in,
too much power in the hands of
just your average people
. Also,
although governments are kind of dumb,
people are also kind of dumb,
so they have to counter-balance
each other.
You don't want just everybody going around
euthanizing themselves or,

Deb:

And they are not gonna please everybody
, but if they can
definitely open up the door,
but put restrictions on it.
I think then you sort of
you've got to at least,
you can satisfy
both sides somewhat,
you know.

Luke:

Alright,
let's get out of here then.

Deb:

Ya, I've got a class right now, so.

Cathy:

That's ok,
it was a good conversation guys,
next time let's talk about
something brighter.

Luke:

A little more up.

Bow:

OK, it's on you, Luke.

Deb:

OK,
thanks Luke,
see you later.

Luke:

I got the bill again,
you guys,
come back here.
Ha ha ha ha.

sunyuting1 2008-06-09 09:12
整理《听说大突破》文本，分拆每盘磁带1小时语音为4个文本的语音，并练习第一遍第一到第三册《爱情和婚姻》、《坠太、性教育》、《艺术、文化》、《宗教、哲学》、《 学生时代、工作》《 安乐死》，分拆后的共计24个语音。
  练习步骤：
  1、通篇文本原文阅读，复制粘贴文本为4割分拆语音对应的文本；
  2、在分拆文本的同时，听磁带语音分拆标记，导出分割语音；
  3、在分拆文本上分别复制粘贴到回复帖方框，听分拆的语音，整理分拆的文本，变成按照语音停顿换行的文本；
  4、看整理的文本，听分拆语音，检验语音和文本换行停顿的正确性，加深语音压码理解记忆；
  5、听分拆语音在tanscbe！软件的频谱图；
  6、整理原音文本，字号为“6号字体、斜体”，听原音磁带，看放大的原音文本，一遍跟上磁带速度。
  练习时间：共计4天，磁带时间6小时。
  练习效果：基本整理一遍分拆文本的情况下，就可以做到语音和文本对应到句子内部的分解句子，初步做到语音精确到单词的字母音节，记忆语音效果特别好。练习后作为整理文本间的休息进行听音练习，基本可以做到压码长句子，将反复重复的碎句子还原为可以理解的长句子。
  下一步练习，大家可以按照我练习的分拆文本自己整理文本和分拆语音，每个分拆语音每天可以整理文本数次，做到全部理解吸收的目的。
 


sunyuting1 2008-06-09 09:19
经我修改过的李根本老师谈：研读《孙裕亭老师的文章》

    压码听懂第零步：整理文本

    　整理文本，其实就是为了压码阅读，也就是为压码听懂，所做的准备工作。具体操作方法是，把互动练习的文本，千万不要复制到WORD文档中做完练习后再发帖，一定要利用在论坛做工具，开始就直接在“发帖”进入编辑状态，复制全部语音的文本，开始语音与文本的每个句子同步进行练习，特别是整理基本词组，一定要实时不断按Enter回车键，一句一句的内部词组回行，使得整理文本时，眼睛顶住编辑框的句子，使听到的语音和看到的文本同步，语音精确到词组乃至其内部的字母拼写，练习完毕并及时提交帖子，练习第二遍仍在论坛"进入高级模式"实时编辑、修改帖子，在论坛进行整理，
        其方法，比其他的压码眼睛看、利用鼠标跟速、利用快捷键、利用鼠标右拉等方法阅读，更容易准确跟综，同时分行的句子动作记忆力更高。使用神奇变速器或者Tanscribe，眼睛跟上磁带语音的速度，开始采用15%速度开始整理文本，然后开始提速，25%速度，35%速度，50%速度，70%速度，根据自己整理文本的速度，找到最佳速度，即能保证跟上整理文本，保证听清的文本的细节，进行文本的整理。就是根据语音，把句子划分为，便于自己压码记忆的段落。同时，删除前面的名称代号。
    然后整理文本的几个场景学习段落：将每个数字的引导语、情景、学习、引导学习、练习内容，按照范例文本的样式，按Banck Spach键合并行为一个统一的整体，其中注意学习的内容的换行与压码的语音停顿时间紧密结合起来，练习的时候的换行和引导学习的例子中听到的句子和造句说的句子变成每行一个句子对。
    基本词组和场景学习段落的不同整理方法，就是不断地分解和合成的过程。整理结束后，将基本词组的特殊连接词和学习的关键词内容选择出来，放在整理文本的基本词组每段内容的前面。
   
    　整理一遍后，再听听语音，看看语音中的停顿，是否和自己整理的一致，不一致的，可以按照语音，进行修改。修改以后，就是真实的句子停顿了。练习《你好美国》压码听懂，一些学员感觉不能很快压住码，语音记忆不清晰，理解有困难，可能出现的问题，就在整理文本上面。有的学员，对于整理基本词组的意义，认识不足，进行省略。这是非常错误的。对于你的压码跟读阅读，和压码理解记忆，可能会需要更多的时间，或者练习的次数更多。
   
  整理结束后，自己在论坛发送的帖子上，可以看着文本，听着语音，验证一下基本词组的语音文本停顿和磁带语音是否一致，也是矫正自己语音的过程。如果整理的不满意，可以继续进入"修改"文本编辑程序整理，单独整理文本的练习，大家可以利用搞难度的《听说大突破》的一个分拆语音文本练习一遍基本词组整理，再在发帖后的整理文本验证和巩固语音文本的对应关系，压码记住精确细化的语音，利用Tanscribe频谱进行检验每个长句子语音压码记忆和理解的能力。这样整理可能一遍就记忆住了原来反复颠三倒四的句子，变得一下子就完全理解的神奇现象。如果一遍没有达到掌握的效果，可以每遍练习整理文本一次。


1.压码听懂第一步：压码看着《整理好的文本》，听语音，大脑回响出语音。

    　可以采用快捷键shift，来对我们听到的每个段落，进行涂黑显示，避免跟丢文本。
先用鼠标加黑几个单词，不按鼠标左键，只是在文本上向后滑动，看完一个句子，或者一个句子的自然分段，按shift键进行加黑。这样，在脑子里回响文本时，因为黑底白字显示非常突出，大大加强记忆效果。这样做的目的：开始看文本用鼠标滑动，不用用力连续按住鼠标，只要在文本上轻轻地移动，指着文本即可，这样可以跟上每个句子的开头句子，不容易丢失，等看完一个句子再按快捷键控制，可以做到精确控制到句子。


2.压码听懂第二步：压码看着《Tanscribe的波形》，只听语音，想出文本。
       
　　看着Transcribe上面的音频图，听每个句子的语音，做到语音和音频图一一对应。当一个语音句子听完后，根据音频图的时间间隙，可以很好地判断压码回想的次数和时间的安排。当练习深度听清的时候，可以看着音频图，听完一个句子，多重压码，压码多个句子，压码长句子，连环压码，根据音频图标识的提示时间长短进行各个突破练习。
　　当练习压码听懂的时候，可以在听几遍熟练以后，进行听懂检验。看着音频图，语音没有到达的时候，提前回想上次听到的语音是否压码记住，然后听到语音达到音频图的句子时进行正误矫正，听完音频图的句子后进行压码记忆。在练习压码听懂的“练习”句子变换的时候，语音句子没有到达音频图的时候，听到提问的语音或者“练习”的上句，自己进行造句，然后听到语音到达音频图后进行造句正误的检验，然后自己再进行一次压码回想加深语音记忆。


3.压码听懂第三步：压码看着《整理好的文本》，跟踪阅读，大脑回响出语音。

    　压码看文本，看当你看文本的时候，看着你整理的文本，就知道语音的节奏。利用整理文本，进行跟踪阅读，就容易多了。其实，在我看的一些学员整理的文本中，发现除了毛丝丝老师的基本词组，是完全正确的外，我可以在一遍就能够跟踪下来，一般几分钟就学会了一课。象李老师、星空等练习很好的学员的文本，我基本不能一遍跟下来，有时甚至在基本文本上找不到。你们自己实验一次进行对比。看看不这样训练，能否一遍理解记忆，能否保证眼睛不跟丢？是否能够快速压码听懂，一些学员在日记上说，越练习越困难，说明练习方法的细节上有问题，与个人英语基础的关系并不大，主要的是方法的掌握。学习理解和口语的关键，在于自然消化吸收，有生词是不会影响理解和记忆的。  　

    可以将课文全文采用编辑框的字号采用“6号字、斜体”编辑发帖，样式见《听说大突破》原文格式，检验是否看没有整理文本的原文，一遍是否可以跟上语音，压码理解记忆。


sunyuting1 2008-06-09 09:46
在几个步骤中整理分拆文本的步骤为关键步骤，一般可以先用Transcribe软件15%速度起步播音，复制分拆文本到回复进入编辑状态方框，先用超级慢速适应一下回车换行，将连续讲话的文本根据语音的停顿变成一行行短小的句子停顿，这一点对于看编辑的文本的时候细化到字母的语音，这样整理的过程就将语音和文本单词记住了，特别是一些磁带文本的碎句子，还有多人对话的抢话题，你可以看到原文有大量错误，特别是作者听写的错误以及与语音不一致的地方。一旦你适应了磁带的语音，你就是完全记忆语音和文本的高效整理文本，可以在一边整理文本，一边调整软件的速度到25%，35%，50%，70%，100%.速度寻找一个合适速度，一般35%、50%速度比较适合整理比较细小句子的基本词组，70%和100%速度只有感觉需要整理掌握大的句子间隔的时候才比较使用，整理小句子是为了细化内部自然分段的能力和语音细化记忆的能力，而70%和100%速度已经算做快速了，你能够抓住主要矛盾的停顿，加强长句子整体理解。
    不同速度可以到软件进行设置即可获得。
    整理文本基本一遍就可以达到记忆语音和理解句子的目的。
  你整理一个 文本，及时再听其他没有整理过的文本也就可以全部跟上语音细化到文本，整个句子都能够理解了。所以整理文本非常重要。一般整理一遍是原音的时间的2-3倍，但是比听10几遍效果还要好。
  所以为了提高听力，对于一盘磁带的所有内容熟练记忆，你可以反复多整理几遍，一致到全部消化吸收为止。
  对于一些生词，只要你记住了语音和文本的语音，加上你已经理解了句子的全文，实际上生词就全部变成了学会的单词。是不用查英语字典的自然理解记忆。


sunyuting1 2008-06-09 09:54
你听这些原音文本的碎句子，开始会感觉特别别扭，颠倒重复不知道就已经说到了后面，根本救生不知道他实际上说的是那些文本，你也没有过滤他们口吃毛病为连贯句子的能力。
但是只要你整理一遍文本，实际上是只有整理基本词组的整理文本，将句子的文本分拆开，实际上原文的标点符号只是概略的划分，和语音停顿根本就不是一致的。
一旦你整理了文本，这些碎句子你就完全适应了这些碎句子。
当你整理文本的时候，你只要关注大的停顿就可以了，小的停顿，你可以根据文本的连接词判断进行断句，断句后的短句子实际上是和语音一致的。这就是你理解记忆英语的过程。


sunyuting1 2008-07-04 00:19
分拆文本：


      1 . 第3册2.EuthanasiaA面开始到15分13秒的语音文本

2. Euthanasia


SIDE A


Hey guys how are you doing?
Hey~~
What's up gang? Oh! How are you?
Righteous! Righteous! Good to see you, man!

Deb:

What's been going on?

Bow:

Oh! check it out, man.
In the newspaper today did you hear?
The Netherlands just legalized euthanasia.

Daisy:

Really?

Cathy:

Really?

Bow:

Yeah!

Luke:

Euthanasia? What's that?

Bow:

So like you know,... if you're sick,... and you're,
... you're gonna die ...and you have some chronic illness....
.... that there is no cure ....for and you're basically just gonna deteriorate,
.....deteriorate and deteriorate,... basically if you're a citizen of The Netherlands
.....you can ask a doctor .....to pull the plug sort of...
.... he will actually let you die... or speed the process up.

Bow:

Oh, In Netherlands,.... you can also marry your gay partner.

Luke:

Yeah! Yeah! ....They're very progressive there.

Deb:

They are very,... they're so liberal.

Luke:

Yeah~ you can't kill people ...there without,.... unless they... want to be killed.

Deb:

So it's a wanting to die..... (Luke: I think so) ....you have to want to die.... for them to actually.... let you... or speed up the process,... allow you to die.

Luke:

I think so.... Yeah..... I don't know if, ...I don't know if it allows for,
.... like if you don't... if you are... a vegetable... or something
(Deb: Yeah) ....say in a coma... or something...)
.... I don't think it allows for that,.... I think you have to be... in your own mind..,
.... it has to be totally like..,
...you have to be ...(Deb: Coherent...) ...yeah coherent... you have to be ...lucid and everything.... to make the decision... for yourself.

Deb:

Oh~ I see.

Bow:

How about... you Deb, ....what if you are in a coma ....would you want someone ....to pull the plug on you?

Deb:

If I was in a coma?.... Um, I guess if I was in a coma for.... a really long time..,
but wait,... if you are in a coma ....that doesn't necessarily mean ...that you're.

Luke:

.Doesn't mean that you're dead. ...You could come out of it.

Deb:

Right.

Bow: ....Yeah! But what.... if you would come out.... but you got brain damage.... would you... want the plug be pulled?

Deb:

Uh... maybe. ....Because I think then.... I'd probably be... a big burden of my family.
....So yeah,.... I think it would be very expensive ...and very hard on them.
....And you know ....there's nothing.... I can do to help the situation except ....if they were to.... pull the plug... then I'm gone. It's...

Bow:

What about.... in a hypothetical situation ....where there wouldn't ....be a burden a rich family.... maybe that... could support somebody,
.... you think and there is no way... that they would come.... out of a coma and.... if they did they'd be a vegetable.
.... Do you think that uh...they have the right... to pull the plug?

Deb:

I still think it's really.... it's just so emotional... for a family... to have that... over their heads all the time,
....and they're constantly.., like I mean,... I think it probably... affects your life ....so much that ...they can' t move cities.... and things without considering it.
.... It's such a big consideration... if you have a family member.... that's in a coma ...that you're constantly... caring for.
....And it's not even about ....the money... more about the emotional
....um...the emotional ...taxation of it.

Cathy:

So you if were to.... pull the plug on somebody like this they would die right away.

Deb:

Yeah~

Luke:

Pretty much...

Deb:

What do you think... if you're really sick,... and it was a terminal illness, ...and you weren't ...going to be get better,
then...you...it starts to hurt like that the illness.... progresses so much that you're in... so much pain,
.... you might live ...for another six months ...but it's gonna be a painful six months.
....Would you want to die ...sooner... rather than pull...go through the whole ...6 months of pain?

Cathy:

I think it's difficult to ...say ....how you'd actually feel... in the situation.

Luke:

Um, say you've made your...

Deb:

How about you.... can take control of the situation?... (Luke: Yeah!)...and say I'm ready to go.

Luke:

Yeah. If you have made your peace,... I mean if you've been through this... if this is something ....you've maybe heard about... a couple of ...years ago or something,
.... your time is... limited now... on this mortal coil,
.... and you're gonna be going out... eventually sooner ...or later no one can say.
.... And then probably... from that point on you, ...you're gonna start... coming to terms ...with you your spirituality ...or you know whatever your... life is ....the sum of all ...your experiences ...or whatever.

Deb:

And as you start.... to sort of maybe... come to terms with that,
.... that's gradually like... giving you some peace of mind ...then like...uh...
....they're pendulum. ...
....There's all the pain... it's coming.... It's gonna be a... more and more ...painful that.... What would you do then?... Bow?

Bow:

If I was... in the situation,... I would um...have um...somebody who was ...responsible for pulling the plug.... maybe look into.. cryogenics?
(Deb: What's cryogenics?) ...
...it is like freezing...
(Deb: Oh...then you could be brought back to life...later when they figured it all out...)

Luke:

Cure.

Bow:

Maybe something like that...um...
...that's true. ...yeah.... if you have unlimited funds now.
.... But if you have limited ...funds then taxidermy,... would it be ok?

Deb:

So that your mom ....could put you on a shelf?

Bow:

Well I mean think about... euthanasia is,
.... it's a big deal ...with humans ....but it happens all the time with animals,
....my dog was ...euthanized
(Cathy: See? ...That's the thing)
and many dogs are. ...I mean that's a life.

Deb:

I thought better ....knowing that our dog ...wasn't in pain ...when that happened with our dog,
that gives us a hard decision ..to make.
(Bow: Yeah~)but at the same time ...like the poor thing was suffering so much,
it was in a lot of pain... that it was...and that was even hard... for us to watch.
....So imagine.. if it's human,... say it's ..your brother.

Cathy:

That's an interesting point.... It's like you're not... just living this life ...by yourself.
You're not just.... totally an individual you're connected ...to everybody else,
....so I think that decision ....would have to be based... on all of the people ...that love you and,.. by you as well.

Luke:

It wouldn't be an easy decision either ...but I think in order to define like... I guess... for the family ...who had to ...sit by and..,
...either allow the person ...to let themselves die ...or to make the decision... for them.
...It's not really killing ...it's not really murder... at that point... because it's not only life that.. is ending.
...I mean ...I think that... if you're bedridden... and you're totally... you've lost all control over
(Deb: All your functions)
....all your functions... that's not really living anymore,
... it's sort of an in-between ..state anyways
(Deb: Right) ...So I don't think... I don't know... I think it's ..a good thing... it's a progressive thought,
... but ...an important one.

Cathy:

Yeah. I remember... I was talking to ...one of my students ...who had a father ....who was dying
.... and he was telling me... how difficult it ...was to see him going down further ...and further... and further,
... and for the entire family... really so maybe something like euthanasia would...

Deb:

Would be ...something that they... could grasp and... could actually give them a lot of peace of mind... for the whole family (Luke: Right)

Bow:

How about this thought... like um... doctor Kervorkian ...he is ...in court still now ...and um..
.(Cathy: So controversial.)
.... and um ...the thing that's.... interesting to me is that.... people give him ....permission... to kill them.
.... Then he injects ...them with certain ...medicines I suppose and.., then.., they die.
... But urn, ...these people... if they really wanted to die... I mean maybe they chose.... him because it's urn...
... it seems medical to them ...or I mean ...maybe jumping off a building... or cutting their... wrists is just too gory
.... and but ...I mean I'm sure ...that they can find other ways... that wouldn't be painful,
....they could take some sleeping pills ...if they really want to
...(Luke: Sure)... but I think ...why they choose him is... because they want someone else to have responsibility for...
.... And so them saying like ....I have problem.s... I did it to myself.
... They want someone to.. say like... this guy feels the same way,
....you know like,... he's responsible for...
(Luke: An advocate kind of)
exactly.

Deb:

I saw a movie once. ...And it was based on a true story... it was about... this really old retired couple....
... And I believe the wife.... had Alzheimers and she was really,... really,.... really... sick and deteriorating.
.... And she couldn't even ....get off the couch like ..she was that sick,
....and so her husband ...actually took it upon himself ....to kill her.
...(Daisy: Really?) ...Yeah.... He shot her twice.

Luke:

Oh. ...I heard about that.

Deb:

.. Yeah. ....Then he was on trial ...but... he was claim that it.... was a mercy killing ....and he loved his wife ...all like... for 50 years ....or whatever that they were married... he loved her.
.... He did it ...because he cared for her.... not because he wanted to get rid of her.
....But because of the pain... that he saw her in ...
...He wanted to alleviate that.... She couldn't actually ...say to herself... she wanted to be killed...
....He made that decision... for her.

Cathy:

But maybe they ...knew each other.

Deb:

... But the people that knew him.... Exactly people that knew him... and knew their marriage ...understood him,
... that ...you know... he wouldn't have just murdered her.
.... It was out of love it was.... because he cared for her... that's why it was a mercy killing.

Cathy:

So what did the courts decide...

Deb:

I don't remember that.

Luke:

Probably... he probably ...got in trouble ..for that.
... I mean, it's...it's really brutal. ....I think it's ...almost ...kind of fascist ...how the government... takes such an interest.
.... It is really like sort of ultimately... I think something like that ....should be the individual's right.
...You've gained a lifetime... of making your own decisions... on so many things
....and then like some ...bureaucrats are telling you,... you can't,.... you can't end ....your life even though like ...you're the one ...who has to suffer through it,
....you are the one.... who has to put up... with all the waiting around.

Bow:

What was interesting... like in the States anyway... suicide is illegal.
....It's against the law to... kill yourself.

Luke:

Yeah right.

Bow:

So...that's just... like a contradiction... almost because...

Cathy:

What are they gonna do.. once you're dead?

Bow:

Arrest your corpse.

Deb:

...Uh.... there's also another... story... I know about.. that in Saskatchewan,
.... a father murdered his ...thirteen or fourteen year old daughter.
....She was severely retarded... and he shot her. ...
....I believe ...I'd not sure... if he shot her. ..Actually...
...he might have.., but anyways he did kill her.
...and he totally owns up to that, ...
....but he said you know.... she was in so much pain ...and it was too much. He was very, ...very poor ....so he couldn't even put her... in the proper facile..,
....like give the proper facilities to even make herself comfortable any more.
(Cathy: Right)... So and again like that... I mean, ...I think he's ...still in court for that.

Bow:

And that's.... that would be like a social problem,
... wouldn't it? ..He couldn't...... he wasn't able to.

Luke:

Yeah that's a little dodger.

Deb:

Yeah that's the thing like.... I mean it's ..still arguable.
... I mean she was in pain. ...Yeah I guess it is more,... i see what you're saying ..but...

Luke:
..
....She was in pain ...being retarded is.. painful?

Deb:

Well I think there might have other things... going on as well,... but like... I mean ....so if you did just sort of like... carte blanche say,... ok euthanasia is ok. ....Who knows... where that's gonna go?

Cathy:

Yeah. ...That's. ...I think that's... why the government ...gets involved.... so much because you.. could end up killing somebody ...and it could actually be a murder.

Deb:

Exactly people are always claiming they're insane.... when they do things now because insanity leads to like.... three-year prison terms as opposed to.. life prison terms.
... So ..you know... if people could suddenly claim like, ..Oh no!... I euthanized that person ...then... that ...gives a whole new avenue.

Bow:

It's a good point.

Luke:

And that leads to other things too..,... like someone ...has is just gonna have a hard time of life.... because they're not as equipped... in some... like some respect... she's not smart enough,
... she has a learning disorder... he's... got ...a bum leg ..or something.
... He's not gonna have a fighting chance ...so I euthanized them.
...Sort of reeks of, ..master race, ...some kind of weird filtering process...

Bow:

This was just in the paper... the other day..,
... a situation where ...a father... in England... killed his daughter.... because of her mental anguish.
...So it's kind of along the same lines. ...She was.... obsessed with.... Manic Street Preachers or something,
...some guy who... in the band... had committed suicide or something ....so she ....numerous times... tried to do that and...

Luke:

Commit suicide.

Bow:

Commit suicide... and she was just um.... hurt emotionally
....(Cathy: Tormented) ....tormented ....and her father ...um... helped her commit suicide,
...he put a ....plastic bag over her head ....and then put a pillow over that.

Deb:

Oh God!.. That is weird.

Cathy:

Then nothing was wrong with her ...I think she was obsessed with.

Bow:

And the father... called it a mercy killing.

Luke:

How old was she?

Bow:

Uh...she was about... maybe 24 or 25.
....I don't remember exactly.... It was in the paper ...the other day.

Deb:

My mom works in a ...hospice ...in Calgary... and she's against euthanasia.
.... And like.., ...completely against... euthanasia because she believes.. that you can keep people comfortable
.... and just give them a lot of love ...and support .....and you can make them comfortable ...
....and just help them get... through that time.... It can be painful.. but you know...

Cathy:

....Is a hospice is a place people go ...when they're terminally ill?

Deb:

Yeah. It's for terminally ill people.

Bow:

By the way ...what's carte blanche?
... So has anybody ever heard the stories of ....like people coming out of comas and.... what they've experienced... because I have never..,
... like it was it peaceful for them.... or they were in a dream.... state or did they see the light.

Deb:

Lots of times you hear that ..they can actually hear.
... (Luke: Mm...) ....but maybe not everything ...all the time.... But some things ..they hear. ..Which is kind of interesting.

Bow:

Yeah. ...Do they have feelings like..,... the fetus..,
.... does the fetus ...have feelings ..at a certain stage.

Luke:

I think in situations like that ...where other people... are deciding ...for... the people ....I don't know... I think it does have to be... the families decision...
....and you know.. they're the ones paying the money ...for it they're the people ..who know it.
....If the doctors can guarantee the person's... not gonna come out ...or if they do come out ..they're just gonna be...

Deb:

...But I think... pulling the plug ...is different ..from euthanasia.

Luke:

Definitely.... Yeah. ...If a person is... trying to make an educated decision ...about it... and an enlightened decision... and has made their peace with everybody.
..... and with their decision ...I think... that's almost just ...a release in a way like ....ok I'm ready to do this... I mean... if you've been in pain ....for this long you had much time ...to come to grips with...

Deb:

And you're ready ..to go.

Luke:

...Yeah. ..The concept of death... is not like ...a scary idea anymore and...
....you're welcoming it,... it's scarier to.....have to.
....I can imagine... having to spend... 5 years in a hospital ...bed or something never getting out ...and just being like ....waking up in pain everyday.
...That would suck... I think.... you would ...come to that decision... pretty quickly actually.

Deb:

.Especially... when you know ..it's deteriorating... and you're deteriorating ...you know ...it's going to come,
....death is coming like... (Luke: Sure.)... And I think.. most people ...when they come to the point ...where they can... actually make a decision about ...euthanasia,
... it's when they're that ...close to death anyways,
.... their probably just a matter ...of months away from death.
....That it is not ...a question anymore ...of will they get... better and...yeah.

Luke:

There's a thing of death.... with dignity... as your last... kind of act...
... as a living person... I guess would be dying ....
...and I guess ...if you could control ...sort of the way ...that you go out.
... I think that's sort of... would be a very comforting ..thought too.
...I mean, ...if you are just going be like,... going out screaming ....and puking and ...just making blood everywhere.. or something,
... a really gory scene ...and just not at all like... in control of anything that's going on ...
....and all of sudden you're just snuffed out... that's sort of like... a crappy way to be remembered.
... That's not... the way you wanna ..go out of the world.

Bow:

You'd totally be ...remembered.. for that.

Luke:

You'd be remembered for it.

Deb:

But if you even went... through all of that... and then you're just sort of ...in a coma ..or whatever ...until you die ...like say you do go ..through all these like.. spastic things... or whatever.. and suddenly.. like ok,
... you're coherent ...and suddenly... you've got... so much pain... and you can't even talk anymore,
....so you're not going to be able to ...make anymore peace ...at that point.
....You're not gonna be ...able to say like.. I'm ready to go,
.... like now you're just.. sort of like... hanging on... because they're making you hang on
(Luke: Yeah)... until your body gives up....
... (Luke: Yeah) ...You know my mind's ...ready to go.. and I wanna go.

Luke:

In a dignified way... (Deb: Yeah).. Just sort of like... close my eyes and ah--


sunyuting1 2008-07-05 21:03
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      1 . 第3册2.EuthanasiaA面开始到15分13秒的语音文本

2. Euthanasia


SIDE A

（原文错误修改文本）

Hey guys how are you doing?
Hey~~(hey)
What's up gang?...(hey) Oh! How are you?
Righteous! (mm)...Righteous! .(yeah)
..Good.. to see.. you, man!

Deb:

What's been going on?

Bow:

Oh! ...check it out,... man.
In the newspaper ...today... did you hear?
The Netherlands... just legalized... euthanasia.

Daisy:

Really?

Cathy:

Really?

Bow:

Yeah!

Luke:

Euthanasia?... What's that?

Bow:

So like you know,.
.. if you're sick,.(yeah).. and you're,
...(you're) you're gonna die
...and you have some chronic illness....
.... that there is no cure ....for(haha)
.. and you're basically just gonna
.... deteriorate, ....deteriorate ...and deteriorate,
... basically ...if you're a citizen of ...The Netherlands (haha)
.....you can ask a doctor
.....to ...pull the plug sort of...
.... (and) he will ...(he will) actually let you die.
.. or speed the process up.

Bow:

Oh,...(aer that) In Netherlands,
.... you can also ....marry your.. gay partner.

Luke:

Yeah!(uh) Yeah! ....They're very progressive there.

Deb:

They are ...very,... they're ...so liberal.

Luke:

Yeah~... you can't kill people
...there ...without,.... unless.
.. they want to be killed.(mm)

Deb:

So it's a wanting... to die.
.... (Luke: I think so)
....(you have to) ...you have to... want to die
.... for them to actually
.... let you
... or speed up the process,... allow you to die.

Luke:

I think so.... Yeah..... I don't know(that).. if,
...I don't know if it allows... for,
.... like if you don't... if you are
... a vegetable... or something
(Deb: Yeah ....say in a coma... or something...)..(yeah)
.... I don't think... it allows for that,
.... I think you have to be... in your own mind..,
.... (it has to be )... it has to be totally like..,
...you have to be ...(Deb: Coherent...)
...yeah... coherent... you have to be
...lucid and everything..(to)
... to make the decision... for yourself.

Deb:

Oh~ I see.

Bow:

How about
... you Deb, .(like).
...what if you are in a coma
....would you want someone
....to pull the plug on you?

Deb:

If I.. was in.. a coma?
.... Um,... I guess... if I ...was in a ..coma for
.... a really long time..,
...but wait,... if you are in a coma
....that doesn't ...necessarily mean ...that you're.

Luke:

.Doesn't mean ...that
...you're dead.
...You could come out of it.

Deb:

Right.

Bow:

....Yeah! But what
.... if you would come out
.... but you got brain damage...
.... would you..(like)
.... want the plug be pulled?

Deb:

Uh... maybe. ....Because.. I think then.
... I'd probably be... a big burden of my family.
....So.. yeah,
.... I think it ...would be very expensive
...and very hard on them.
....And ...(I) ..you know ....there's nothing.
... I can do to... help the situation .....except
....if they were to.... pull the plug... then I'm gone. It's...

Bow:

What about.... in a .(hypo uh).
....hypothetical... situation
....where ...there wouldn't ....be a burden a rich family
.... maybe that... could support somebody,
.... you think (that)...and(um).. there is no way... that they would come.... out of a coma and.... if they did... they'd be ...a vegetable.
.... Do you think that uh...they have the right... to pull the plug?

Deb:

I still think it's really.... it's just so emotional.
.... for a family (to)... to have that
... over their ..heads all the time,
....and they're constantly.., like
...I mean,... I think it probably
... affects your life ....so much that .(mm)..they can' t move cities
.... and things without considering it.
.... It's such a big consideration
... if you have....( have) a family member.
... that's in a coma ...that you're constantly
... caring for. (haha)
....And it's not even about
....the money  ... more about the emotional (mm)
....um...the emotional ...taxation of it.

Cathy:

So you if were to
.... pull the plug on somebody
... like this they would... die right away.

Deb:

Yeah~

Luke:

Pretty much...

Deb:

What do you think
..(.if you're ).. if you're really sick,(mm)
... and it was a terminal illness,
...and you weren't ...going to be get better,
then.(then).(and).you...it starts to hurt.
.. like that ..the illness.... progresses so much that you're in... so much pain,
.... you might live ...for another six months
...but it's gonna be a painful six months. (mm)
....Would you ..want to.. die ...sooner.
.. rather than pull (like).
....go through the whole ...6 months of pain?

Cathy:

I think.. it's difficult to ...say ....how you'd actually...
... feel... in the situation.

Luke:

Um, ...say you've made your...

Deb:

How about you
.... can take control of... the situation?.
.. (Luke: Yeah!).
..and say... I'm ready... to go.

Luke:

Yeah.... If you.. have made your peace,.
... I mean if you've been through this.
.. if this is something ....you've maybe.. heard about
... a couple of ...years ago or something,
.... your (your)....(your time)..time is... limited now
... on this mortal coil,
.... and you're gonna be going out.
.. eventually ...sooner ...or later no one can say.
.... And then.. probably
... from that point on you, ...you're gonna start...
...coming to terms ...with you ...your spirituality
...or you know whatever your.
.. .....(your) life is
....the sum of all ...your experiences ...or whatever.(haha)

Deb:

And as you start.... to sort of maybe
... come to terms with that,
....that's gradually like
... giving you some peace of mind
...then like...uh...(haha)
....they're pendulum. .....(pendulum)
There's all the pain... it's coming
.... It's gonna be a... more and more ...painful that
.... What would you do then?(haha)... Bow?

Bow:

(um) If I was... in the situation,
... I would um...(have)...have um...somebody
... who was ...responsible.. for pulling the plug.
... maybe look into.. cryogenics?(and)
(Deb: What's cryogenics?) ...
...(and) it is like freezing...
(Deb: Oh...then you could be brought
... back to life...later... when they figured it all out...)

Luke:

Cure.

Bow:

Maybe ...something like that.(haha).
...um...(that'e ture)
...that's true. ...yeah.... if you have unlimited funds now.
.... But if you have limited ...funds then... taxidermy,... would it be ok? (hahahah...)

Deb:

So that your mom
....could put you on a shelf?

Bow:

Well ...I mean... think about.(uh)
....(you).... euthanasia is,
.... it's a big deal ...with humans
....but it happens all the time.. with animals,
....my dog was ...euthanized
(Cathy: See? ...That's the thing)
and many dogs are. ...I mean that's a life.

Deb:

I thought.. better
....knowing ...that our dog ...wasn't in pain
...when that happened.. with our dog,
that gives us a hard decision ..to make.
(Bow: Yeah~)
...but at the same time ...like ...
...the poor thing.. was suffering... so much, (haha)
....it was in a lot of pain.that
... it was...and that was... even hard... for us to watch. (mm)
....So imagine.. if it's human,... say it's (right)..your brother.(right)

Cathy:

That's an interesting point.... It's like you're not.
.. just living this life ...by yourself.
You're not just.... totally ...an individual you're connected
...to everybody else,(mm)
...(um)...so I think that decision
....would have to be based... on all of the people
...that love you and,.. by you as well.

Luke:

It ...(it)wouldn't be an easy... decision either (yeah)
...but I think in order to define like
... I guess... for the family
...who.. had to ...sit by and..,
..(and)...either... allow the person
...to let themselves die
...or to make the decision... for them.
...It's not really killing
...it's not really murder.
.. at that point... because...
... it's not only life that.. is ending.
...I mean (uh)...I think that... if you're bedridden
... and you're... totally.
.... you've lost all control over
(Deb: All your functions)
....all your functions.
.. that's not really... living anymore,
... it's sort of ...an in-between ..state anyways
(Deb: Right)
...So I don't think (know)
... I don't know... I think it's
..a good  (thing)... thing it's... a progressive thought,
... but ...an important one.

Cathy:

Yeah. I remember... I was talking to ...one of my students
...who had a father ....who was dying
.... and he was telling me... how difficult it
...was to see.. him going down
..further ...and further... and further,(haha)
... and for the ...entire family.(haha).. really
...so maybe something ..like euthanasia would...

Deb:

Would be ...something that they... could grasp and.
... could actually give them... a lot of peace of mind
... for the whole family (haha)..(Luke: Right)

Bow:

(haha) How about this thought... like um.(mm).
. doctor Kervorkian (mm)
...he is (uh)...in court still now ...and um..
.(Cathy: So controversial.)(mm)  (yes)
.... and um ...the thing that's.(um)
... interesting to me is that.(uh)
... people give him ....permission... to kill them.
.... Then he injects ...them.. with certain  (right)
...medicines (mm)  ...I suppose and.., then.., they die.
... But urn, ...these people.
.. if they really wanted to die
... I mean.. maybe they chose
.... him because ...it's urn...
... it ..(it) seems medical... to them
...or ..I mean ...maybe (uh)
..... jumping off a building... or
... cutting their... wrists is just too gory
.... and ..but ...I mean I'm sure ...that they ..can find other ways
... that wouldn't be painful,
....they could take.. some sleeping pills (sure)
...if they really want to (sure)
...(Luke: Sure)... but I think ...why they choose him is... because they want
....someone else to have... responsibility for...(mm) (haha)
.... And so them saying like
....I have problems... I did it to myself.
... They want someone to.. say like
... this guy... feels the same way,
....you know like,...(haha).
.. he's responsible for...
(Luke: An advocate ..kind of)
...exactly.(some gay)

Deb:

I saw a movie once.
...(um) ...And it was based on a true story
... it was about... this really old ...retired couple....
... And .(that )..( and)... I believe the wife
.... had Alzheimers ...and she was really,... really,.... really.
... sick and deteriorating.(mm)
.... And... she couldn't even ....get off the couch
... like ..she was that sick,
....and so her husband
...actually ...took it upon.. himself ....to kill her.
...(Daisy: Really?) ..(haha).Yeah.... He shot her twice.(yeah)

Luke:

(relly)..Oh. ...I heard about that.

Deb:

.. Yeah. ....Then he was on trial .(haha)
...but... he was claim that it.... was a mercy killing
....and he loved his wife
...all like... for 50 years
....or whatever ..that they were married.
.. he loved her.
.... He did it ...because he cared for her
.... not because... he wanted to get rid of her. (mm)
...(no no no )...But because of the pain... that he saw her in ...
...He wanted to alleviate that
.... She couldn't actually
...say to herself.(mm)
.... she wanted to be killed... (mm)
....He made that decision... for her.

Cathy:

But maybe they ...knew each other.

Deb:

... But the people that knew him.... Exactly,(mm)
....(the) people that knew him... and knew their marriage ...understood him,
... that ...you know... he wouldn't ..have just murdered her.(mm)
.... It was... out of love... it was.... because he cared for her... that's why it was a mercy killing.

Cathy:

So what did the... courts decide...

Deb:

I don't... remember that.(haha) ...(move)

Luke:

Probably... he probably
...got in trouble ..for that.
... I mean, it's...it's really brutal.
....I think it's ...almost
...kind of fascist .
..how the government... takes such an interest.(mm)
.... It is really like sort of ..ultimately.
.. I think something like that
....should be the... individual's right.
...You've gained a ..lifetime.
.. of making your own.. decisions... on so many things (haha)
....and then like some
...bureaucrats are telling you,
... you can't,.... you can't ..end .your... life even though like
...you're the one ...who has to suffer through it,
....you are the one.... who has to put up.(but)
.. with all the (right)... waiting around.

Bow:

What was interesting... like(uh).. in the States anyway
... suicide is illegal.
....It's against the law to... kill yourself.(haha)

Luke:

Yeah right.

Bow:

So...that's just.(um)
.. like a contradiction... almost because...

Cathy:

What are they gonna do.. once you're dead?

Bow:

Arrest ...your corpse.(yeah)

Deb:

...Uh.... there's also another... story
... I know about.. that in ...Saskatchewan,
.... a father murdered his
...thirteen or fourteen.. year old ...daughter.
....She was severely retarded (haha)(mm)
... and he shot her. .(haha)..
....I believe ...I'd not sure... if he shot her. ..Actually...
...he might have.., but anyways he did kill her. (haha)
...and he ..totally owns up.. to that, ...
....but he said you know.... she was in so much pain
...and ..it was too much.
... He was very, ...very poor (mm)
....so he couldn't ..even put her
... in the proper facile..,
....like give the proper facilities (mm)
... to even make herself... comfortable any more.
(Cathy: Right).(mm)
.. So... and again like that.
.. I mean, ...I think he's ...still in ...court for that.

Bow:

And that's.
... that would be like ...a social problem,
... wouldn't it? ..He couldn't.(will).
.... he wasn't able to.

Luke:

Yeah ..that's a little dodger.(I live you)

Deb:

Yeah that's the thing like (yeah)
.... I mean it's ..still arguable.
... I mean... she was in pain
. ...Yeah.. I guess it is more,.(will..)
.. i see what you're saying ..but...

Luke:
..
....She was in pain
...being retarded is
.. painful?

Deb:

Well I think there... might have other things
... going on as well,.(come tre).. but like
... I mean ....so if you.. did just sort of like... carte blanche say,.
.. ok euthanasia is ok.
....Who knows... where that's gonna go?

Cathy:

Yeah. ...That's.(it's pababaly)
...I think that's... why the government
...gets involved.... so much because (you)
... you.. could end up killing somebody
...and it could actually be a murder.

Deb:

Exactly... people are always... claiming they're insane
.... when they do things now ...because.. insanity leads.
.. to like.... three-year... prison terms as opposed to.. life prison terms.(haha)
... So ..you know.
.. if people could suddenly ..claim like,
....Oh no!... I euthanized ..that person (right).
...then... that ..(yeah).gives a whole new ..avenue.(oh)

Bow:

It's a good point.(haha)

Luke:

And that leads to other things too..,
... like someone ...has.. is just gonna ..have a hard time of life.
... because they're not.. as equipped... in some
...(or)... like some respect... she's not smart enough,(that)
... she has a learning disorder... he's..(he's). got (uh) ...a bum leg ..or something.(haha)
... He's not gonna have a fighting chance ...so I euthanized them.
...Sort of ...reeks of, (uh)
.....master race, ...some kind of weird filtering process...

Bow:

This was just in the paper... the other day..,
... a situation where ...a father... in England
... killed his... daughter
.... because (uh) of... her mental ..anguish.
...So it's kind of along... the same lines
. ...She was..(um).. obsessed with..(uh) .(that)
....Manic Street ...Preachers or ...something,
...some guy who... in the band
... had committed suicide or something (mm)
....so she (uh)....numerous times... tried to do that ...and...

Luke:

(and) Commit suicide.(mmmm)

Bow:

Commit suicide
... and.. she was just um.
....(uh)... hurt emotionally
....(Cathy: Tormented)
....tormented ....and her father
...um... helped her commit suicide,
...he put a ....plastic bag over.
... her head ....and then put a pillow over that.

Deb:

Oh God!..(right) That is weird.

Cathy:

Then nothing was wrong ..with her ...I think... she was ..obsessed with.

Bow:

And the father... called it a mercy killing.

Luke:

How old was she?(that)

Bow:

Uh
...she was about... maybe 24 or 25.
....I don't remember exactly.
... It was in the paper ...the other day.

Deb:

My mom.. works in a ...hospice
...in Calgary... and she's against ..euthanasia.
.... And like.., ...completely against... euthanasia
... because she believes
.. that you can keep people.. comfortable(haha)
....(and)... and just give them a lot of love
...and support (mm)
....(and)....and you can make them ..comfortable ...
....and...(and) just help them get... through that time (oh)
.... It can be painful.. but you know...

Cathy:

....Is a hospice.... is a place people go ...when they're terminally ill?

Deb:

Yeah. It's for terminally ill people.

Bow:

By the way ...what's carte blanche?
... (uh)...So has anybody.. ever heard the stories of
....like people coming out of comas and
.... what they've... experienced
... because I... have never..,
... like it was it ...peaceful for them
.... or they were in a dream.
... state or.. did they.. see the light.

Deb:

Lots of times... you hear that
...they can actually hear.
... (Luke: Mm...) .(but)...
but maybe not everything (mm)
...all the time.(haha)
... But some things (mm)..they hear.(en)
..Which is kind of interesting.(he a remamber)

Bow:

Yeah. ...Do they have feelings,,, like..,(uh) (you know)... the fetus..,
.... does the fetus ...have feelings ..at a certain stage.

Luke:

I think in situations.. like that
...where other people... are deciding
...for... the people ..(I)..I don't know.
.... I think it does have to be... the families decision...
....and ...you know.. they're the ones paying... the money for
... it they're the people ..who know it.
....If the doctors... can guarantee the person's.
.. not gonna come out
...or... if they do come out ..they're just gonna be...

Deb:

...But I ..think... pulling the plug ...is different ..from euthanasia.

Luke:

Definitely (yeah)....(you know )... Yeah.
...If a person is... trying to make an educated ...decision
...about it... and an... enlightened decision
... and has made their peace with everybody.(and)
..... and with their decision (and)
...I think.(um).. that's almost just ...a release in a way
...like ....ok I'm ready to do this
... I mean... if you've been in pain
....for this long ..you had much time ...to come to grips with...

Deb:

And ..you're ready ..to go.

Luke:

...Yeah. ..The concept of death.
.. is not like ...a scary idea anymore and...
....( and your)..you're welcoming it,
... it's scarier to.....have to.
....I can.. (I can ) imagine.
.. having to spend... 5 years in a... hospital
...bed or something never getting out ...and just being like
....waking up in ...pain everyday.
...That would suck... I think
.... you would ...come to ...that decision... pretty quickly actually.

Deb:

(well)....Especially... when you know ..it's deteriorating.
... and you're ..deteriorating
...you know ...it's going to come,
....death..(yeah).. is coming ..like... (Luke: Sure.).
.. And I think.. most people
...when they come to the point
...where they can... actually make a decision about ...euthanasia,
... it's when..(that).
.. they're that ...close to deat... anyways,(mm)
.... their probably just a matter ...of months away.. from death. (haha)
....That it is not ...a question anymore
...of will they get... better..(haha) ....and...yeah.

Luke:

There's a thing of death.
..(death). with dignity... as your last
...(uh)(as your last.). kind of act...(yeah)
... (um) as a living person... I guess ..would be dying ....
...and.(uh).. I guess ...if you could control ...sort of the way ...that you go out.
... I think that's ..(thr's) sort of... would be a ...very comforting ..thought too.
...I mean, ...if you are just going be like,
... going out screaming (and)
....and puking and ...just making blood everywhere.. or something,(and I..)
... a really gory scene ...and just not at all like
... in control of anything that's... going on ...
....and all of... sudden ..you're just snuffed out
... that's sort of like... a crappy... way to be ..remembered.
... That's not... the way you wanna ..go out of the world.(well that)

Bow:

You'd totally be ...remembered.. for that.

Luke:

You'd be remembered for it.( for the  that ..peple)

Deb:

But if you even went... through all of that
... and then you're just sort of ...in a coma ..or whatever
...until you die
...like say...you do go ..through all these like.
. spastic things... or whatever.. and suddenly.. like ok,
... you're coherent ...and suddenly... you've got... so much pain.
.. and you can't even.. talk anymore,
....so you're not ...going to be able to ...make anymore peace(haha)
...at that point.
....You're not gonna be ...able to say like.(right). I'm ready to go,
.... like now you're just.. sort of like... hanging on... because they're making you hang on
(Luke: Yeah)
... until your body.. gives up...... (Luke: Yeah)
...You know.. my mind's
...ready to go.(yeah)
.... and I wanna go.

Luke:

In a dignified way... (Deb: Yeah).
. Just sort of like.
.. close my eyes and ah--