sunyuting1 2008-07-12 10:24
分拆文本：
4.Euthanasia的B面44分15秒到56分15秒结束的语音文本
Cathy:
If you're.... in charge of a society,.... right,
....you want... every single member..... of your society
....to be adding something.... to the society.
.... Right? ...And that's like ...maybe a long time... ago,
....and... these like ...forging societies,
.... people had to ...keep moving,.
.. it would make sense ....to leave the elderly people.. behind,
.... because they cannot move.
.... Maybe in a ....farming community,
....it might be nice ...to keep the old people alive
.... because they... have a lot of.. traditions,
... stories, ..and knowledge.
.. to give to the younger generation.
...So in ...this society
,... we have to think, ...ok,
...people... who are terminally ill,
.... what are they adding... to society.
....And they are actually ...adding something.
...They are ...adding ...something ...I don't know.
Deb:
Well,... That is ok,... but if they are, ...
....they could be,... because
... if they are ...willing to try ..a new drug,
...they are the ones... who are the sick. ..Right?
... (Cathy: Right) ....So they are the ones
....who are going to respond to the drug.
....They needs... sick people ..to try
...(Bow: They're guinea pigs)
...experimental drugs on.
.... (Cathy: OK, guinea pig is one)
.... Yeah,... so they are,.... they are.
.. contributing in ..some way,
...you know,... like even if they ..are no...t
....physically ..fit or whatever,
...you know... like they're still ...making their body
...available to say like,
... ya.... I will try ...that new experimental drug
...because ...even if it doesn't work,
...at least you'll know.
...And that will... get you ...off this page and on... to a new page.... (Cathy: Right)
Luke:
...And also ...they have ...a unique vantage point being
...so close to death,
....and still ...among the living, ..
...you know, ...and they a have unique prospective... in that way.
Cathy:
That's right, ...because.
Luke:
..That's something ....that a lot of people
... will never like ..we say,
.... we can't really conceive of it,
....you know, ...because... it's hard.
.. for us to say ...unless we've actually.. been there,
....or been ...that close to it... or something,
... (Bow: That's actually is)
... uh,... the perspective thing, ...they offer.
Bow:
Another problem with ....government regulations ...
.....uh, ....on the bad side of... it is that ...urn,
....these people that... want to try
....new drugs... to try to stay alive,.
.... or guinea pigs are, ...are
..... regulated ...by the government
...and they are not letting them....
.... try these new drugs ..that might ...actually do something ...
.....or a combination of something
...or they don't ...let them ...try it like
.... (Deb: They aren't so accessible.)
Bow:
... Because ...it might be harmful ...or something.
... (Luke: Exactly,.... It might worsen the situation.
Bow:
... Right now in South Africa,
... there is a pharmaceutical ...company
...that has ...developed ...a generic
....form of the AIDS medication.
.... And the government ...is not.
... letting them... produce it
....which is really sad
.....because ...that's where they say
... you know ...most of AIDS... cases are... is in Africa.
....That's like the hub of it.
Deb:
Why?.... Do you know why?
Bow:
Urn, ....Because ....it hasn't been.. tested enough,
.... and ..what not,... but urn...
Cathy:
Maybe ...it's expensive ..as well,.. I think.
Bow:
That's ...the generic... brand ....that's why they're ...making it,
.... because.. it'll be cheap ..for the people.
Cathy:
Oh, for the masses.
Bow:
For the masses. ....That's the idea.
....And that's why,... and that's the problem.
Luke:
But... it might have side.. effects,.. doesn't ..
..(Bow: It might).... it might actually... make it worse
.... But it might make it better.
Bow:
. Yeah, ....so... like I'm sure there's ...many people that
... are saying Yeah,
... give it to met.....
... (Deb: Yeah, exactly,
....to be that person to be like,
... woah,... I gotta third arm now,
....so don't be ...given this out any more,
...you know like.
Luke:
That's where... the government
...actually sort of like
...has to back... off cause it is,
.... it is down to... an individual decision.
Bow:
I don't know ...cause ...I mean,.
... because the government
...was one that started AIDS
.. in the first place.
Luke:
Oh,.... you're ...a such conspiracy ..theorist.
... (Bow: Yeah) ...That's not.
Deb, Luke:
That's not true.
Bow:
That's not?
Luke:
You don't know ...that it is
.... It probably is,... but...
Cathy:
We don't know for sure.
Luke:
Let's not ...talk it about.. anyway.
Cathy:
Only the strict facts here, ...(Bow: OK,)
Cathy, Bow:
Euthanasia.
Luke:
Euthanasia.... Well, ...is ...it fair that.
... rich people... have ...like,
...all the access
...(Bow:... Have all the money?)
.... If you only have ...the two options,
....like get really cool like
....cutting edge technology.
... to keep yourself alive,
....or ..you can have ..euthanasia.
....Poor people... will only have ...one of those options.
... The euthanasia option.
Deb:
...And it's their own... form most likely cause...
Luke:
You're right.
Bow:
Well,... I believe, ....I mean,
... in life... with everything else,
.... it's just like the, ...uh,
...the cards.... that you have been dealt.
... You're poor, ...you're rich,... you're middle class,
....that's... what your life is
..... That's what you've been given
... in this life ..anyway.
....And um,... if you ...do have more.
.. opportunities ..to have
...a bigger house,
...and a swimming pool
.... If you ....have ...more opportunities to
...keep yourself alive longer.
... because ...you have more money than.
... That's... just the way... it goes
. ...That's what I think.
Luke:
And I think ....that that's where ...rich people come in handy
... when they get terminal diseases,
...they are very handy,... in that way.
.... Because.. they will actually,
... only when people... do start trying to,
....yeah they have to develop ....the stuff,
...but people have do it
...before it can be more.. developed and,
... it has been studied.. and stuff
. ...That's where they ...sort of just... lead the way,
....and eventually,.... it will trickle down.
.. to ...other people... with maybe,... less money
... (Bow: Right) ..hopefully.
Bow:
.Of course,... like um,.
... poor people ...a lot more poor people... die first before
..rich people.
.... For example, ...I ...have been thinking
...about this ..recently,
...um, ...Magic Johnson
...has,... had AIDS... for what.
.. like 10 years now, ...maybe.
... (All Yeah) ...And you don't ...hear... of him ever being.
.. sick and going to the hospital?
Deb:
Because... he's got.. the money.. to...
Bow:
To take his AZT cocktails.
Deb:
Well that,.... he is probably.
.. taking ...other other experimental... drugs and things,
.... he can probably ...sort of select like,
.. well, ..Ya, this one on paper looks like.. it's been,
.... it's really strong like... it's a good drug to take.
...This, ...what you know,... as far as experimental.. drugs go, .
....he can at least... have the choices.
.. for which experimental drugs,
... and he gets... so many more... opportunities
...to get those drugs.
Luke:
He can afford it,... and he can try it,
... and he's... got nothing to lose by ...trying all these drugs.
... So he's actually making a,...
... what he is doing ...is.... benefiting... all of mankind... because,
.... if it works ..on him,... then it'll ...work on... the average people.
...And then ...that's an avenue
...that we can ...continue to pursue,
...you know,.. in that,.... in a scientific ...sense,.
.... do the studies on it ..and stuff.
...He's gone into... total remission almost.. with it,.. you know.
Bow:
Doesn't ....it also... cause like... people to say,
.... look at him, ...he didn't die....
... So... I'm not gonna... like protect myself,
....they're gonna come up ..with a cure.
Deb:
..But I mean ...only an idiot ...would.. say that,
...because, ...well no, ...really ...because...
.... I mean obviously
...he is in a.. different,.. um, ...like
... if you wanna look ...at it as a class.
.. (Bow: Social class) ...whatever. ..Ya.
.... He is way ...up there... in a high bracket ..and stuff,
... only ..a fool would think ...that that's all it was,
... was oh, ...he is just another guy,.
... he is not... just another guy,
... he is another rich guy.. that has...
Bow:
...
.... But as he may.. be saying.
.. that trickles down
...they're just saying well,
... I can make it, ...I can stay alive
... long enough ..until it trickles down.
Luke:
...Your kidding yourself
...if you think it's gonna happen.
.. that quickly.. like you're still.
Deb:
It's gonna take a lot of time.
Luke:
Most people.... who're dying of AIDS are
...no where near,
...what's his face uh,
...Magic Johnson's bracket,
...you know, ....and most people
... who are suffering.
... from something like AIDS.. live in,
... you know,..... the least developed
...countries in the world,...
... you know. ...They just will never.. develop, ..they make,
...he makes ...in thirty seconds
... what they make in a year.. kind of thing.
...(Bow: Right)... to put in into perspective, ...
...so,... I don't know.
.. if that's the best ...tact to take.
Cathy:
So do you think
.... that from that perspective
....that euthanasia.... should be
... available... to poor people... as an option?
.... Because ...they can't afford,
...you know, ...the.... pain ...saving... devices
...that ...a rich person could?
Luke:
I think it's market,
...market influences... supply and demand
...if people want,
...if people want ...to be put out of ..their misery,
... they can find a way... to put themselves
...out of their miseries.
.... It's all market flux,... you know.
Deb:
But then, ...ya, like it,... it almost seems....
... what sort of is a fine line,.
... is euthanasia... and suicide?
... (Cathy: Right).... Like,... it's, .
.....I mean,... it's basically.
... it's you killing yourself,
... you making the choice ...to die.
... (Cathy: Right)... Right?... Ya,... ok, ya,
...if it is assisted or whatever.
... But is that ...not ...what Kervorkian does, ..though?
....He has it set up.
...He has,... he sets ...up the little like
...whatever it is.
...And you push ...the button,.
.. when you are ...ready to go,
...you push the button
. ...So it's basically.... you killing yourself.
...Ya, I guess, I...
Cathy:
I think... that is... euthanasia
.... in the strictest terms,.
.. right,... like assisted suicide.
Deb:
But.... I mean, ...otherwise, ...
....ya,.... if that ....person could just.. get a hand,
....get their hands on.
... a bunch of sleeping pills ...or whatever,
.... would they... take the chance
... of just swallowing those?
Bow:
. Well, ...as I was saying earlier,
... I think they wanna like
... kind of handover ...the responsibility... to somebody.
...(Deb: Right).... So, it's not just them.... solely doing
...it themselves,
...there is somebody that's.
.. taking responsibility
... for them also.
.... I mean they're ...taking it on... themselves,
... yes, ..I'm killing myself.
... But... this guy's ...helping me, ..so he is just.. as bad.
...You know,... if it,... if it turns out to be
... bad in the other world
...or whatever.. next like.
Luke:
..
.... But he is... also a medical doctor,
.. he is,.. he is,... like reviewing them,
....and he is like ...checking out ..their condition,
... and if he is,... he is ...not some guy... they met.
. in a bowling alley.. or something.
....You know, ...he is, ...he's a educated man
,... he knows diseases
...(Deb: He's got qualifications).
.. are gonna,... he's qualified ...to say
....one or the other ..if it's viable.
Bow:
You know, ....there's doctors... that say,
.... you have a month to live
.... and there's nothing wrong.. with you.
.... You know, ...you get a ..second opinion.
...(Luke: That's true... tune up.)
.. I suppose if ...
Deb:
But I think he is.
Bow:
If these people...
have gotten ..to the point where,
....they're gonna... kill themselves.
....I think ...they've probably... gotten
.. second ...and third opinions.
Deb:
Probably, ..you know,... they definitely ...probably
... scoped out their options.
.....And... he is probably.. like a safe bet,
.... you know, ...and he.... as far as.... assisted suicide goes,
.... he's sort of the ..god father,
....you know, ...you can feel safe ...with him.
.... He will take care of you,
....and he will get it
... done the way ..you want it.
Bow:
He will kill you.
Cathy:
But he even.... published.. a book
....about.. different ways ...to safely kill yourself,
.... because ...I think... that's ...a big concern.
....Because.. it is suicide,.. right?
... (Deb: Uho uh) ....But you don't know like,
....ok, if I swallow these pills
....what am I ...actually going.. to do?
.... So here.. you have a book.
... (Deb: And suddenly ...you're.. a vegetable.)
Bow:
Is that such a good idea, ..though,.. I mean,
....because.. it is available... to the public
.. for the people that... have problems that can be
...(Luke: Cured) ...mental problems.
Cathy:
I worked in ....Cole's ..bookstore
.. in Canada,
...and his book was... for sale.
Bow:
.I mean ...is it like uh
,.... is it the ..right thing ..to do,
... or should it be ...like... just given... (Deb: Nice plug?)... to
.... medical ...community... to, ...to hand out ...rather than... like
...in Cole's Bookstore
....where... anybody.... who's mental
...and wants to off ...themselves... can buy it
... and find different ways... to do it.
Luke:
Yeah, ...it's sure
. ...It's gotta be.... an enlightened decision,
.... I think. ..It's not one that,
... I don't think... anybody
...who does choose ...to do that,
....I don't think... it's an ...easy one to come to.
...And some people ...who just wanna off... themselves
.... because ...they just can't take it.. anymore
... (Deb: Oh, Yeah).
..or for the sheer ..whatever of it.
....That's definitely not,
... that's not something.
... that ..you'd like to open up.
Deb:
.That's beyond euthanasia,
...you know,... well,... that's, ...I think, ..
...you know,... like Bow,.
.. the specific cases about people.. that are sick,
... and that, ..that ..you know.
Luke:
But I mean ...it's a bookstore,
... it's like a trip to... your local bookstore wherein
..and by making,
...by opening up too much,
... by making... it a little too easy
...just to kill yourself.
Bow:
As far as... like... marketing goes,
... I think ...that's kind of interesting,
... I mean ..that's.. a book
...that I'd like.. to read just for...
Cathy:
It's interesting.
Deb:
Yah,... it would be interesting.
Bow:
There are selling,
... you know,... the popularity ...of it I think,
... it just not ...so cool,... but...
Cathy:
How about... how you ...feel about ...this like... ideally,
... this is.. how I think... Right now i...n the position
...that I'm in I would like to say that
.... I'll live my life... through the way ..that it's planned,
... if I'm meant .....to have a very painful long... death then,
...I will do that. ...This is ...what I am saying now.
Deb:
Sure.
Cathy:
And if ...I have a.... family member
....who ...is going through... a lot of pain,
... and wants me to help
... them kill them,
....I would like to say
... that I could also do that.
Deb:
Right.
Cathy:
So I don't know... if that's.. contradictory.
Deb:
No, I don't think... it is
...because... you're ...speaking of yourself,
...and you're... also allowing someone
... that you love... to have their own decision.
Bow:
That's the problem ....with a lot of ...these topics... is that
...we can ...think of our ...opinions... but
.... until we are actually ...in that position
... (Deb: Who knows?)
...Yeah, ...we don't really know,
....we can just guess what we
.... (Deb:... Which is interesting...)
...think it would be like.
Deb:
Maybe more.... when the baby boomers... do get
... to that point,
... is that they're.
... the ones... that are ...going to definitely
... put the final decision ..on it,.
..... you know. ...They will be the ones... that are there
...going through death and pain
....and the whatever,
....that gets them ...to be end.
Bow:
Yes,... I think ..it's a really... just urn,
... case by case,
....situation ...depends on
....the situation
....at the time....
.... if someone ....should be ...euthanized,
.... depending on.... maybe finance,
... depending on urn,
.... (Luke: ....Individual.... preference?...)
....Exactly,
...(Luke: ...On, ...on..., on... family ...opinions.)
Deb:
Yeah, ...definitely ...case by case... I think,... it's probably.
Cathy:
You'd like ...to live in ...a place
...where the government
.. said that... it is legal.
Deb:
Well,... that it's... your choice.
Cathy:
Right.
Deb:
Right?... Legally ...it's your ..choice.
Cathy:
Uh-uh.
Luke:
Right,... but also ...don't put too much.. hands in,
...too much power ...in the hands of
... just your average.. people.
... Also, ...although... governments ...are kind of dumb,
... people are also... kind of dumb,
....so they... have to... counter-balance... each other.
...You don't ....want just everybody
... going around ...euthanizing ...themselves or,
Deb:
And they are... not gonna please ...everybody,
.... but if they can ...definitely... open up the door,
....but put restrictions on it.....
... I think then... you sort of.
.. you've got.. to at least,
....you can satisfy
.... both sides... somewhat,... you know.
Luke:
Alright, ...let's get out of ..here then.
Deb:
Ya, I've got ...a class.. right now, so.
Cathy:
That's ok,.... it was a good conversation guys,
... next time let's ...talk about ...something brighter.
Luke:
A little more up.
Bow:
OK, it's on you, Luke.
Deb:
OK, ...thanks Luke,.. see you later.
Luke:
I got the bill again,... you guys, ...come back here. ...Ha ha ha ha.
sunyuting1 2008-07-12 18:28
分拆文本：
4.Euthanasia的B面44分15秒到56分15秒结束的语音文本
（原文错误修改）
Cathy:
If you're.... in charge of a society,.... right,
....you want... every single member..... of your society
....to be adding something.... to the society.
.... Right? ...And that's like ...maybe a long time... ago,
....and... these like ...forging societies,
.... people had to ...keep moving,.
.. it would make sense ....to leave the elderly people.. behind,
.... because... they cannot move.(ah)(right)
.... Maybe in a ....farming community,
....it might be nice ...to keep the.. old people alive
.... because they... have a lot of.. traditions,
... stories, ..and knowledge.(right)
.. to give to the younger generation. (ah)
...So in ...this society
,... we have to think, ...ok,
...people... who are terminally ill,
.... what are they adding... to society.
....And they are actually ...adding something.(mm)
...They are ...adding ...something ...I don't know.
Deb:
Well,..(haha..). That is ok,.(coule ...).. but if they are, ...
....they could be,... because
... if they are ...willing to try ..a new drug,
...they are the ones... who are the sick. ..Right?
... (Cathy: Right) ....So they are the ones
....who are going to respond to the drug.
....They needs... sick people ..to try
...(Bow: They're guinea pigs)
...experimental drugs on.
.... (Cathy: OK, guinea pig is one)
.... Yeah,..(yeah). so they are,.... they are.
.. contributing in ..some way,
...you know,(right)... like even if they ..are not
....physically ..fit or whatever, (mm)
...you know... like they're still ...making their body
...available to say like,
... ya.... I will try ...that new experimental drug
...because ...even if it.. doesn't work,
...at least you'll know. (ah)
...And that will... get you ...off this page and on.9ah)
.. to a new page.... (Cathy: Right)
Luke:
...And also ...they have ...a unique ...vantage point being
...so close to death,
....and still ...among the living, ..(ah)
...you know, ...and they a have
...unique prospective(that right)... in that way.
Cathy:
That's right, ...because.
Luke:
..That's something ....that a lot of people
... will never like ..we say,
.... we can't.. really conceive of it,
....you know, ...because... it's hard.
.. for us to say ...unless we've actually.. been there,
....or been ...that close to it... or something,(ah)
... (Bow: That's actually is)
... uh,.(you know).. the perspective thing, ...they offer.
Bow:
Another problem with ....government regulations ...
.....uh, ....on the ...(the)bad side of... it is that ...urn,
....these people that... want to try
....new drugs... to try to stay alive,.
.... or guinea pigs are, ...are
.....(are ) regulated ...by the government
...and they are not letting them....
.... try these new drugs .
....that might ...actually do something ...
.....or a combination of something
...or(um) they don't ...let them ...try it like
.... (Deb: They aren't ...so accessible.)
Bow:
... Because ...it might be harmful ...or something.
... (Luke: Exactly,.... It might worsen the situation.
Bow:
... Right now.. in South Africa,
... there is a ...pharmaceutical ...company
...that has ...developed ...a generic
....form... of the AIDS.. medication.(ah)
.... And the government ...is not.
... letting them(um)... produce it
....which is really sad
.....because ...that's where ..they say
... you know ...most of AIDS... cases are... is in Africa.(mm)
....That's like the hub of it.(uh that)
Deb:
Why?.(maken)... Do you know why?
Bow:
Urn, ....Because ....it hasn't been.. tested enough,
.... and ..what not,... but urn...
Cathy:
Maybe ...it's expensive ..as well,.. I think.
Bow:
(well) (that's)..That's ...the generic... brand
....that's why they're ...making it,
.... because.. it'll be cheap ..for the people.
Cathy:
Oh, for the masses.
Bow:
For the masses.( ) ....That's the idea.
....And that's why,... and that's the problem.(it's uh)
Luke:
But... it might have side.. effects,.. doesn't ..
..(Bow: It might).... it might actually... make it worse
.... But it might make it better.
Bow:
Yeah, ....so... like I'm sure there's ...many people that
... are saying Yeah,
... give it to met.....
... (Deb: Yeah, exactly,
....to be that person to be like,
... woah,... I gotta third arm now,
....so don't be ...given this out any more,
...you know like.
Luke:
That's where... the government
...actually sort of like
...has to back... off cause it is,
.... it is down to... an individual decision.
Bow:
I don't know (why)...cause ...I mean,.
... because the government
...was one that started AIDS
.. in the first place.
Luke:
Oh,.... you're ...a such conspiracy ..theorist.
... (Bow: Yeah) ...That's not.
Deb, Luke:
That's not.. true.(ture, that'a not)
Bow:
That's not?
Luke:
You don't know ...that it is
.... It probably is,... but...
Cathy:
We don't know for sure.
Luke:
Let's not ...talk it about.. anyway.
Cathy:
Only the strict facts here, ...(Bow: OK,)(right)
Cathy, Bow:
Euthanasia.(euthnasia, euthnasia)
Luke:
Euthanasia.... Well, ...is ...it fair that.
... rich people... have ...like, (mm)
...all the access
...(Bow:... Have all the money?)
... (If you only have ...the two.).
.. If you only have ...the two options,
....like.. get really cool... like
....cutting edge technology.
... to keep yourself ..alive,
....or ..you can have ..euthanasia.
....(um)..Poor people... will only have ...one of those options.
... The euthanasia option.
Deb:
...And it's their own... form.. most likely cause...
Luke:
You're right.
Bow:
Well,... I believe, (uh)....I mean,
... in life... with everything.. else,
...(it's)... it's just like the, ...uh,
...the cards.... that you have been dealt.(ah)
... You're poor, ...you're rich,... you're middle class,
....that's... what your life is
..... That's what... you've been given
... in this life ..anyway. (ah)
....And um,... if you ...do have more.
.. opportunities ..to have
...a bigger house,
...and a swimming pool
..(um).. If you ....have ...more opportunities to
...keep yourself alive longer.(ah)
... because ...you have more money than.
... That's... just the way... it goes(ah)
. ...That's what I think.
Luke:
And I think ....that that's where .
....rich people come in handy
... when they.. get terminal diseases,
...they are very handy,... in that way.
.... Because.. they will actually,
... only when people.(what ,oney to the that)
... do start trying to,
....yeah they have to develop ....the stuff,(mm)
...but people have do it
...before it can be more.. developed and,
... it has been studied.. and stuff(mm)
. ...That's where they ...sort of just... lead the way,
....and eventually,.... it will trickle down... to
...other people... with maybe,... less money(right)
... (Bow: Right) ..hopefully.
Bow:
Of course,... like um,.
... poor people ...a lot more poor people... die first(ah) (right)
... before..rich people.
.... For example, ...I ...have been thinking
...about this ..recently,
...um, ...Magic Johnson (yeah))
...has,... had AIDS... for what.
.. like 10 years now, ...maybe.
... (All Yeah) ...And you don't ...hear... of him ever being.
.. sick and going to the hospital?(no)
Deb:
Because... he's got.. the money.. to...
Bow:
To take his AZT... cocktails.
Deb:
Well that,.... he is probably.
..(he's ).. taking ...other other experimental... drugs and things,
.... he can probably ...sort of select like,
.. well, ..Ya, this one on paper... looks like.. it's been,
.... it's(ri)... really strong like... it's a good drug to take.
...This, ...what you know,... as far as experimental.. drugs go, .
....he can at least... have the choices.
.. for which ...experimental drugs,
... and he gets... so many more... opportunities(yeah)
...to get those drugs.
Luke:
He can afford it,... and he can ..try it,
... and he's..(he'sa). got nothing.
.. to lose by ...trying ...all these drugs.
... So he's actually... making a,...
... (and they's)..what he is doing
...is.... benefiting... all of mankind... because,
.... if it works ..on him,.
.. then it'll ...work on... the average people.
...And then (then that's)...that's an avenue
...that we can ...continue to pursue,
...you know,.. in that,.... in a scientific ...sense,.
.... do the studies on it ..and stuff. (yeah)
...He's gone into... total remission almost..(yeah) with it,.. you know.(dose)
Bow:
Doesn't ....it also... cause like.(um).. people to say,
.... look at him, ...he didn't die....
... So... I'm not gonna... like protect myself,
....they're gonna... come up with... a cure.( that.. )
Deb:
..But I mean ...only an idiot ...would.. say that, (haha..)
...because, ...well no, ...really ...because...
.... I mean obviously
...he is in a.. different,.. um, ...like
... if you wanna look ...at it as a class.
.. (Bow: Social class) ...whatever. ..Ya.
.... He is way ...up there.
.. in a high bracket ..and stuff,
... only .(like)...a fool would think ...that that's all it was,
... was oh, .(haha)...he is just another guy,.
... he is not... just another guy,
... he is another rich guy.. that has...
Bow:
...
.... But as ...he may.. be saying.
.. that trickles... down
...they're just... saying... well,
... I can make it, ...I can stay alive(oh...)
... long enough ..until it trickles down.
Luke:
...Your kidding yourself (when)
...if you think it's gonna happen.
.. that quickly.. like you're still.
Deb:
It's gonna... take... a lot of.. time.
Luke:
Most people.... who're dying of AIDS are
...no where near,
...what's his face uh,
...Magic Johnson's... bracket,
...you know, ....and most people
... who are ...suffering.
... from something... like AIDS.. live in,
... you know,..... the least developed(mm)
...countries in the world,...
... you know. ...They just will never.. develop, ..they make,
...he makes ...in thirty seconds
... what they make.. in a year.. kind of thing.
...(Bow: Right)... to put in.. into perspective, ...
...so,... I don't know.
.. if that's the best ...tact to take.
Cathy:
So do you think(um)
.... that from ..that perspective
....that euthanasia.... should be
... available... to poor people... as an option?
.... Because ...they can't afford,
...you know, ...the.... pain ...saving... devices(I think it's)...
...that ...a rich person could?
Luke:
I think it's market,
...market influences... supply and demand
...if people want,
...if people want ...to be put out of ..their misery,
... they can find a way... to put themselves
...out of their miseries.(right)
...(it's all).... It's all market flux,... you know.
Deb:
But then, ...ya, like it,... it almost seems....
... what sort of.. is a fine line,.
... is euthanasia... and suicide?(ah ah mm)
... (Cathy: Right).... Like,... it's, .
.....I mean,... it's basically.
... it's you killing yourself,
... you making the choice ...to die.
... (Cathy: Right)... Right?... Ya,.(and).. ok, ya,
...if it is assisted or whatever.
... But is that ...not ...what Kervorkian does, ..though?
....He has it set up. (he has tet up)
...He has,... he sets ...up the little like
...whatever it is.
...And you push ...the button,.(right)
.. when you are ...ready to go,
...you push the button(right)
. ...So it's basically.... you killing yourself.
...Ya, I guess, I...
Cathy:
I think... that is... euthanasia
.... in the strictest terms,.(noew) (like)
.. right,... like assisted suicide.(yeah)
Deb:
But.... I mean, ...otherwise, ...
....ya,.(oh man).(I don't)..
... if that ....person could just.. get a hand,
....get their hands on.
... a bunch ..of sleeping pills ...or whatever,
.... would they... take the chance
... of just swallowing those?
Bow:
. Well, ...as I was saying earlier,
... I think they ..wanna like
... kind of handover ...the responsibility... to somebody.
...(Deb: Right)..(ah).. So, it's not just them.... solely doing
...it themselves,
...there is somebody ..that's.
.. taking responsibility
... for them also.(ah)
.... I mean they're ...taking it on... themselves,
... yes, ..I'm killing.. myself.
... But... this guy's ...helping me,
....so he is just.. as bad.
...You know,... if it,... if it turns out ..to be
... bad in the other world (right righr)
...or whatever.. next like.
Luke:
..
.... But he is... also a medical doctor,(right)
.. he is,.. he is,... like(right).. reviewing them,
....and he is like ...checking out ..their condition,
... and if he is,... he is ...not some guy... they met.
. ...in a ..bowling alley.. or something. (hah..)
....You know, ...he is, ...he's a educated man
,... he knows.. diseases
...(Deb: He's got qualifications).
.. are gonna,... he's qualified ...to say
....(well) one or the other ..if it's viable.
Bow:
You know, ....there's doctors... that say,
.... you have a month to live
.... and there's nothing wrong.. with you.
.... You know, ...you get a ..second opinion. (ah)
...(Luke: That's true... tune up.)
.. I suppose if ...(yeah I)(if there people)
Deb:
But I think he is.
Bow:
If these people..(yeah I).
.. have gotten ..to the point where,
....they're gonna... kill themselves.
....I think ...they've probably... gotten
.. second ...and third opinions.
Deb:
Probably, (ya)..you know,... they definitely ...probably
... scoped out their options. (right)
.....And... he is probably.. like a safe bet,
.... you know, ...and he.
...(I).. as far as.... assisted suicide goes,
.... he's sort of the ..god father, (right)
....you know, ...you can feel safe ...with him.(ahah)
.... He will take care of you,
....and he will get it
... done the way ..you want it.
Bow:
He will kill you.(haha..)
Cathy:
But he even.... published(um)... a book
....about.. different ways ...to safely.. kill yourself,(mm)
.... because ...I think... that's ...a big concern.
....Because.. it is suicide,.. right?(ah)
... (Deb: Uho uh) ....But you don't know like,
....ok, if I swallow these pills
....what am I ...actually going.. to do?
.... So here.. you have a book.
... (Deb: And suddenly(just are life) ...you're.. a vegetable.)
Bow:
Is that such a good idea, ..though,.. I mean,
....because.. it is available... to the public
.. for the people that... have problems that can be
...(Luke: Cured) ...mental problems.
Cathy:
I worked in ....Cole's ..bookstore
.. in Canada, (uh)
...and his book was... for sale.
Bow:
I mean ...is it like uh(ha)
,.... is it the ..right thing ..to do,
... or should it be ...like(uh)
... just given...to (Deb: Nice plug?)...
.... medical (uh)...community.
.... to, ...to hand out ...rather than... like
...in Cole's Bookstore
....where... anybody.... who's mental
...and wants to.. off ...themselves... can buy it(ah)
... and find different ways... to do it.
Luke:
Yeah, ...it's sure
. ...It's gotta be..(an).. an enlightened decision,
.... I think. ..It's not one that,
... I don't think... anybody
...who ..does choose ...to do that,
....I don't think... it's an ...easy... one to.. come to.
...And some people ...who just.. wanna off... themselves
.... because ...they just.. can't take it.. anymore
... (Deb: Oh, Yeah).(that's)
....or for the sheer ..whatever of it.
....That's definitely not,
... that's not something.
... that ..you'd like to open up.
Deb:
That's beyond euthanasia,
...you know,... well,.(mm).. that's, ...I think, ..
...you know,... like Bow,.
.. the specific cases about... people.. that are sick,
... and that, ..that ..you know.(ah)
Luke:
But I mean ...it's a bookstore,
... it's like a trip to..(right right right right)
... your local bookstore wherein
..and by making,
...by opening up too much,
... by making... it a little too easy
...just to kill yourself.(mm)
Bow:
As far as... like... marketing goes,
... I think ...that's kind of interesting,
... I mean ..that's.. a book
...that ..I'd like.. to read just for...
Cathy:
It's.. interesting.(there are sellng)
Deb:
Yah,... it would be interesting.
Bow:
There are selling,
... you know,... the popularity ...of it I think,(ah)
... it just not ...so cool, but...
Cathy:
How about... how you
...feel about ...this like... ideally,
... this is.. how I think.
.. Right now... in the position
...that I'm in ...I would like to say that
.... I'll live my life... through the way ..that it's planned,
... if I'm meant .....to have ..a very painful long.
.. death then,
...I will do that.
...This is ...what I am saying... now.(ya ya ya ya...sure)
Deb:
Sure.
Cathy:
And if ...I have a.... family member
....who ...is going through... a lot( a lot).. of pain,
... and wants me to help
... them kill them,
....I would like to say
... that I could also do that.(ah)
Deb:
Right.
Cathy:
So I don't know... if that's.. contradictory.
Deb:
No, I don't think... it is
...because... you're ...speaking of yourself, (mm)
...and you're... also allowing someone
... that you love... to have their.. own decision.
Bow:
That's the problem (right)....with a lot of ...these topics... is that
...we can ...think of our ...opinions... but
.... until we are actually ...in that position
... (Deb: Who knows?)
...Yeah, ...we don't ..really know,
....we can just... guess.. what we(ha )(ha)
.... (Deb:... Which is interesting...)
...think it would be like.
Deb:
(but not) Maybe more.... when the baby boomers... do get
... to that.. point,
... is that ..they're.
... the ones... that are ...going to definitely
... put the ..final decision ..on it,.(mm)
..... you know. ...They will be the ones... that are there
...going through ..death and pain
....and the ..whatever,
....that gets them ...to be end.(ah)
Bow:
Yes,.(so).. I think ..it's a really... just urn,
... case.. by case, (ya yeah)
....situation ...depends on
....the situation
...(uh)...at the time....
.... if someone ....should be ...euthanized,
.... depending on.(uhm)... maybe finance,
... (uh)depending on... urn,
.... (Luke: (um)....Individual.... preference?...)
....Exactly,
...(Luke: ...On, ...on..., on... family .(yeah)..opinions.)
Deb:
Yeah, ...definitely ...case by case
... I think,.(yeah).. it's probably.
Cathy:
You'd like ...to live in ...a place
...where the government
.. said ..that... it is legal.
Deb:
(and)Well,... that it's... your choice.(yeah)
Cathy:
Right.
Deb:
Right?..(right). Legally ...it's your ..choice.
Cathy:
Uh-uh.
Luke:
Right,... but also ...don't put too much.. hands in,
...too much power ...in the hands of
... just your average.. people.(ah)
... Also, ...although... governments ...are kind of dumb,
... people are also... kind of dumb, (ah)
....so they... have to... counter-balance... each other. (right)
...You don't ....want just everybody
... going around ...euthanizing ...themselves or,
Deb:
And they are... not gonna please ...everybody,
.... but... if they can ...definitely... open up the door,
....but put restrictions on it.....
... I think then... you sort of.
.. you've got.. to at least,
....you can satisfy
.... both sides... somewhat,.
....(ah)(ah).. you know.(ah)( but well)
Luke:
Alright, ...let's ...get out of ..here then.
Deb:
Ya, ..I've got (ya)...a class.. right now, so.(ya ya)
Cathy:
That's ok,.... it was a good ..conversation guys,
...(that's).. next time let's ...talk about ...something ...brighter.
Luke:
A little more up.
Bow:
OK, it's on you, Luke.(ya ya ya..)
Deb:
OK, ...thanks Luke,.. see you later.
Luke:
I got the bill again,.
.. you guys, (hahaha)
...come back here. ...Ha ha ha ha.
