5、《听说大突破》3册1.Jobs and Education压吗听懂练习

                                                    第3册Jobs and Education原文

1. Jobs and Education


SIDE A

Today's subject is jobs and education...uh...this is some-thing that any of us can relate to.

Vivian: This is Viv.
Daisy: Yes. This is Daisy. Definitely. You know there's no substitute for a great education, I think and you know if you wanna get that job. But then again, you have to be educating yourself for the right reasons. But I guess we'll get into that a little bit later so, how about you, Bow?
Bow: Oh, yes...hey this is Bow. That is short for Boseesis. I have two things about the job and education...over to you Luke?
Luke: I think a job is an education and I think education is not something you do at school necessarily. I think it's something you do for whole life and you do it wherever you are whenever you are whatever you are.
Vivian: Well obviously, they are both related and we'll discuss more about it. Here we go.

Daisy: Well, you know school for me...um...back way way way back.., a long time ago, I really didn't enjoy it myself. I didn't have good school experience. How about you, Bow?

Bow: Oh! Are you talking about high school or college?

Daisy: High school.

Bow: Uh. High school.., um...Well I really didn't care much about studying... I like to um...have fun. And they say like in America, it was the best years of your life.

Daisy: Right.

Bow: Well they weren't really I suppose.

Daisy: No, me neither.

Bow: Because I fooled around so much I got kicked out.

Vivian: You got kicked out of Catholic school?

Bow: I didn't say Catholic school. How did you know that? Viv, Yes I did.

Daisy: For what?

Bow: Um...we have a demerit system and if you get up to 20 demerits they kick you out. And they kind of just let me keep going and I had 40. Twice the amount and they said we have to make an example of you, mister Bow and they kicked me out.

Vivian: So we're saying like what exactly were the reasons you've got demerits, you know, like what kind of a...you know...

Bow: Let me see... I got caught cheating.., once that was 5 demerits and then uh...I lit a fire in the pottery room and that was.., uh that was probably the end of it right there.., the fire thing.

Daisy: Did you do it on purpose?

Bow: Yes, I did. Because there was this piece of work that I didn't really like and I poured some glue in, and lit it on fire but then I tried to put it out with water but then it kind of dispersed all over the place and I got in trouble.

Daisy: So kind of you weren't planning to be that big but it just kind of got out of hand.

Bow: Yeh it escalated.

Daisy: How about you Luke? How was your school experiences?

Luke: Similar experience. It was more focused on... on social life, and recreational stuff than actual studying. I think that's what a lot of high school and elementary school is for people back home. The only time you really buckled down when you get to university just because you have to because the course load does increase. But I never really yeh I was never that freaked up by high school.., anything I applied myself a bit more in college and just goofed off got in trouble... I used to sell fire crackers in my locker and one time I taped one to a candle and I tried to blow it out and it exploded and I got suspended for a day for that, and an other time I threw a pie in the cafeteria across the room I got in trouble for that started a food fight.

Bow: I used to throw books out of the window of the library. That's kind of similar.

Luke: That's pretty bad.

Daisy: I, I used to steal books from library.

Luke: Yeh.

Vivian: Bad girl.

Luke: Terrible.

Daisy: How about you Viv?

Vivian: Me. I was a such a good girl in school. I used to look down upon all those girls who used to gather in bathrooms and smoke in the stalls I was always early to school.., and my PE teachers just loved me... they just ate me up. I swear. I can call them and I'd just open my mouth and they were like "Oh! Vivian, you're such a good student"...yeh...I kind of had it made in school I guess.

Daisy: Um, did you do well in school?

Vivian: Oh yeh. I was a straight A student.

Daisy: And did you graduate from high school valedictorian?

Vivian: No, not exactly. Last 6 months at school were so tragic for me and my mom. We just.., you know... I dropped out of school. I just couldn't take it any more being a perfect student.

Daisy: The pressure.., the pressure of being straight A student?

Vivian: I can it's just you wanna try different things and after just everything being handed to you on a silver platter.., you know you just wanna do something different.., and just one day I just decided well I didn't wanna go to school and I wanted to play hooky and it's just it was so much freedom all at once I guess.

Bow: That's kind of interesting. The difference between the Korean you were raised sort of in between a Korean educational system and American style of education. And one thing I noticed about the Korean education system is from the time you enter school maybe pre-school to the time maybe to the end of high school, this is the time where we goofed off basically applied ourselves a minimal amount of effort to get the grades and get things done. Whereas that whole time in Korea, in the Korean society, children are being pushed to study almost every minute they have. They go to school and they are pushed to study they go to academic institutes to study, they're often pushed by their parents to have.., to take piano lessons or gymnastic lessons or skating lessons or any kind of lessons. They never really have time to just be kids and goof off and play and stuff. And then when they hit university it's almost like they regress back into the childhood state of mind and if you seen university classrooms with the speaking and chatting during class leaning on each other and cheating and just goofing off and having a gay ol' time. It's just so contrasted to what an American university classroom would look like where everyone's attentive and conscientiously studying and giving their full attention to the professor.

Bow: Well, that's the thing if they're not then they've kicked out.

Luke: Exactly.

Vivian: I definitely agree. That's exactly how the difference in cultures is. My mother being Korean and my father being American. My father was more submissive in the relationships so he kind of let my mother take over the family. But that's exactly how she was and that's why I felt so much stress by the end of school was because from the minute you are in elementary school she was pushing me to do everything perfectly whereas everyone was just, all the other kids especially in elementary or junior high you're just having fun. I was pressured you know so much to get the grades and make the grade. Whereas after that then she always told me as soon as you are an adult as soon as you're eighteen you do whatever you want but until then okay it doesn't matter, no matter what as long as you graduate after that you can do whatever you want because then you're set you're made to go wherever. But in the American culture my dad was actually saying the opposite, enjoy now and then get into really good school and then you'll really study because that's what's gonna lead to a good job. Totally the opposite.

Daisy: Well, I think that everybody it doesn't matter what culture you are from. Everybody is in a different situation with their family. Some parents are just naturally pushy and they want their children to do well and some parents don't care. But the Korean education system and I think probably a lot of other education systems in Asia especially the Japanese one seems to be quite unique in the fact at that, you know Luke was saying there is so much pressure on these children from a young age. And I think that's absurd. Basically children are sponges and they can learn anything they can absorb but even if they learn it do they absorb it. I think that they're just learning a parrot like for want of a better word and they're just taking in this information remembering it using it in their practical way. And not being able to apply anything that they learned in theory and there's too much of it too too much to process. I don't think they're able to process it and even in universities I had a friend who was studying engineering and he had this assignment with an American professor was visiting and the American professor said go ahead and design one of those big cranes that you see on construction sites. And he thought, oh well, I'm a fourth year student I should know how to do that but he didn't. So he went to a construction site and asked the site manager how would you design one of them. And the site manager said who are you. And he said I'm a fourth year university student. And he laughed at him and said, "Go back to school, you do that when you get a real job." So there's no practical implication of anything they learn in school or university.

Vivian: And that brings us to a point where.., and this is a kind of something they've been focusing on recently is the difference in education, the methods of education that they practice overseas and Asia versus Europe or the western countries which is in the classroom situation the teachers encourage students to respond even argue with the student and debate and test out their ideas and theories in the classroom. Whereas in Asian cultures you don't wanna talk back to your teacher, you want to pretty much say everything you say is correct because once you argue or you were to say, well, "What about this?" Then that means in the culture you're talking back to the teacher. That's like that calls for reprimanding the child or the student.

Bow: I think, um, the reason why the education system in Asia is not good. It's not just because I grew up in different kind of education system but I think that if you look at it more in a general sense of child development during those years if you're giving a child stress. Of course that's going to affect them later on in their life whereas kids are just designed so to speak to, to be curious about and find out things by themselves and like ah... have fun as they grow up and develop. And I think like people that have a lot of stress when they are children it doesn't have to do with their education but maybe from divorce or, you know, some other kind of traumatic event in their lives does affect them later on socially. And I think that's where college and being more strict in the western world is a good remedy for that. That's because I think that's where people really kind of develop themselves.

Vivian: Right. I definitely agree. Because in the Korean culture or in many other Asian cultures as well after so much you know ten years of strict educational.., you know.., pressures from the parents and teachers in school you all of sudden have freedom once you go to college here in Korea. Whereas in a western culture, you're given all this freedom at a younger age to explore your ideas, go out and do things experiment with your friends and whatnot... but then in the college it's not because of the pressures you get from your parents but then you kind of mentally develop yourself and.., you want to... you have to live on your own, you have to go to school, you know, you're responsible for many things away from your parents, and so you just kind of naturally hone in on your, you know, you become an adult. You're more mature whereas here you.., you break free all of a sudden and you actually getting really immature.

Luke: I think that comes down to you're taught in the western society to think for yourself. You're taught to be independent a little bit more. You're given.., there's a little more you have more control over your free time but you are made to understand the consequences if you don't use some of that free time to study or to do these things.

Bow: Yes, exactly.

Luke: You value your free time more because of that.

Bow: And I'll give you an example of that exactly you do get a sense of freedom from your parents when you go to school in America but this is exactly right. What happened to me was that in freshman year they load you down like seven courses in architecture right? So you have a really tight schedule but the first year of college you're away from your parents so you can get away with murder. So that's what we do we drink every night on weekdays and then we like skip classes and stuff and then all of sudden you get a notice from the dean that says you're grade point average is below two. You know and if it continues this way you're gonna get kicked out so then we say to ourselves well we kind of want this freedom to continue if we get kicked out. We're gonna have to move back in with our parents. So then we kind of buckle down a little bit but as you go through college more and more you start to actually learn things that you like...like you're learning things that are interesting and when you're in elementary school and in high school learning about like Math and stuff and they are just force feeding you this stuff you don't naturally wanna learn it.

Vivian: Ye! You have curriculum that you have to take.

Daisy: Um... one of the interesting things is you know I grew up in Australia. The Australian education system is different again from the American system.

Bow: What is it actually?

Daisy: The Australian education system? (Bow: I don't know) ...well in America your focus is basically still on the three R's right? reading, writing, and arithmetic. Well it's a little bit different in Australia up until grade eleven you can...uh...you must study Math and English. The only compulsory subject when you graduate is English you don't have to do Math. And you the, choices that you have to pick you can basically design your own syllabus in high school, um, which I think is fantastic idea. And there are subjects ranging from art to metal working, wood working, photography, um music, dance, sports. It's, uh, there are so many different curriculum to choose from that anyone can basically succeed and get enough points to get into university if they want to.

Bow: But you have, have a core group of courses that you have to take too I mean you have electives a certain number of core courses that are mandatory...

Daisy: Right, but in the core groups you have English you don't ... math is not.., you know a prequisite for college unless you got you need it for the course you're gonna study in college. But the core groups would be the sciences, history and English as compulsory, that's the only one that is compulsory. But in those core groups there are several different things to study, the sciences they can range from anything from biology. I think there's natural sciences which is just a study of basically the environment and current events and things like that. But I think that is good idea, and the reason being because all children and all people are not designed for the three R's if you're just raising students and I think it definitely has things to do with economic groups, too. Children that grew up in...in privileged families have been learning to read and write even before they got into kindergarten but some kid from the ghetto is already ten paces behind a privileged child. But, he might be an extremely talented photographer or artist. I think that we need to gear our curriculum in schools around that to um, be targeted all children not one group of children. And that way everybody has an opportunity to succeed.

Vivian: Well I agree. I guess it depends upon which school that you're going to but when I went to school in Georgia it was a very restricted curriculum that we all had to attend. But then I changed to international school and it was similar to the system that you're describing now. Whereas we had to take everything which is one elective um...when I went to the international school they had a curriculum very much similar to what you have just described. You had to take certain, you had to take certain classes but they had 6-7 different what do you say? Venuses of that for example science like you mentioned you can study natural sciences, or you can study biology and whatnot. In the other schools take each one as you went up one grade but here you get to choose which one you want to study and you can choose and study it until you graduate. And the remainder of your classes...similar.., the same thing even history you could study just contemporary or current history or you know about...

Daisy: Well my major was English Literature and obviously for English Literature you don't need math. And I did very well in school and but if I had have taken math when I graduated from school. I wouldn't have got into the university that I did get into. And I also wouldn't have got the grades and that one grade in my final what is equivalent of the SATs ain the states that one grade for math would have brought me down probably an average maybe about 15 marks...

Vivian: Right. Eventually it brings down your grade point average because it's not what you are, you know talented in... honed on in.

Bow: Yeh but I think in other aspects of life you need math. People use even though like people in my university were always like I hate calculus why the hell.., why am I taking calculus. I'm never gonna use it again but it turns out.., they've proven that people use calculus everyday just not in the form of in numbers and stuff like that.

Daisy: But I took it for in eleven years, you know, it was just last year that I graduated so it wouldn't affect my grade to get into university I didn't take it. So I already had eleven years of training in it, So I think that's fair enough.

Luke: It teaches... I think it teaches students to be well rounded because that's the reality of the work force. If you're going to like if you think of the people you knew who went to college or studied something in high school with this thing in mind like I studied anthropology. I did not become an anthropologist. I didn't end up digging for bones or anything. Bow studied architecture but he didn't go on to study architecture. But the thing is we found work in different things, the thing is you the thing you study is not always the thing you end up doing.

Daisy: Sure.

Luke: But it might if you have variety of things you're learning, and you're learning how to manage your time and learning about different interests you have and stuff and if you'd just to be versatile then you have a dynamic education and then you sort of go in what ever directions you're able to take things that are offered to you.

Bow: But you say that you don't apply, you don't actually apply like the skills that you learn if you don't work as like. For example I don't work as architect but I do apply the education that I received from there like I do go to other countries and notice things architecturally that stimulate my intellect because I had the chance to learn that. I think that just because I'm not making money from what I studied. I think that's not really a big issue.

Daisy: No, I don't think it's an issue at all. And I think that is probably the main problem I have in all countries with um, tertiary education. When you go to college um... when I remember I took a class in college and the teacher asked why are you in this class. And every student answered well, I'm taking, you know, taking business, this is like part of the general requirements so I have to take it. Yeah, I wanna six figure salary or whatever and my answer was well I took it to get an education and there was another girl who had similar answer. And he said the only two who answered correctly were me and the other girl. The reason being is that education was never really put in place for you to get six figure salary. It was there to, you know, to improve or stimulate the higher faculties to make you an intelligent person to have an understanding of life and give you life experience, too.

Bow: Exactly, the point that I like to... an example that I'd like to make is at MIT they don't have the grading system like A, B, C or D or F, it's P or F, it's pass or fail. Which I think is good because it's getting you to it's gearing you toward real life, because in real life that's what it is. It's either you succeed or you don't. And it's not you kinda do you get a C you pass to the next level.., so I think actually I think all higher learning institutions should have that kind of grading system.

Luke: But if there, if they're only there to get you real job. I mean if we're saying that the reason to, to educate, educate yourself.., is to... is to get a broader understanding of the world around you and to teach you to be a better person. Then I think you should just learn like you're probably working through school anyway. You're gonna learn that if you don't cut the mustard you're not going have the job. But the shcooling thing I think, Yah, ok you weren't so strong in this.., you were strong in this.., you apply yourself it's gotta be motivated more by a personal conviction to learn that stuff. If you want to go just to get a job then you should probably just get a skill or something get a trade or something like that.

Daisy: Vocational school.

Luke: Yeh...exactly. But there's nothing wrong with that either. I mean it's useless. Yeh...

Bow: MIT is a high level vocational school.

Vivian: Sure I agree, that kind of education almost requires something like that but then when you're just about to enter um...college and you're a junior or senior don't you think that it kind of requires and I would want this for my own children, yeah, a grade, why? because you want the competition you want the competitiveness you want your child to feel like I want to beat this person next to me. I want to do better I wanna get one on top of him.

Vivian: I don't know...you know...

Luke: Maybe in business school.

Daisy: Sure I mean two different minds about that. I think that natural.,, a little bit of natural competitiveness is good but in high school um...I was the youngest of six children and my older.., older 5 brothers and sisters were incredibly successful. So even though my parents weren't pushing me I felt constantly that I had to achieve and I became like not, I'm not even just talking about grades here but an overachiever I had to do everything. I had to enter every competition. I had to come out and I had to be the school president because my sister was and my brother was. And I felt this competition all the time and eventually it worked against me. I was in Australia we call it "the tall puppy syndrome" and if you get too big they'll cut you down. And...um...I lost a lot of friends because people thought that I was a big head and because I always had to enter everything and I was doing it for some other reason to satisfy my family but in those situations I think competition can work against you.

Vivian: But many kids...students want to do it themselves because they want to. They want...I did it because I wanted to, I wanted to be on top of my class.

Bow: But there's the difference between competing with your class mates... to see if you can out do them and sort of pushing yourself and competing with yourself and seeing if you can push can strive to do these things. I think that's the big problem with the work force these days and with the education system is also that idea of competition instead of cooperation shouldn't be people be learning how to work with each other in productive ways instead of trying to outdo each other. That's... that's.., unproductive.

Vivian: But then society has changed the educational system so that you do have to compete with other kids. Why? Because there's hundred colleges out there and they're all ranked from one to one hundred and sure they're all good and as long as you get an education. Hey good to go, and you're always gonna get a job. But the fact of the matter is society um...makes this.., you know unseen kind of scale where they say what you went to your community college. I don't know I'd rather pick this dude from MIT or Harvard because he went to a yo0 know 5 star school. So, even though you may be smarter and you may have more qualifications, I'd rather pick this student from bigger named school.

Luke: You know where, you know where actually the paradox in that is that especially in America. People they are striving to get like um high salaries and whatnot and people that get into the better schools tend to get higher salaries. But what they consider to be successful is making a lot of money. And people who have.., the most millionaires in America are high school drop outs or haven't even entered high school. It was because they learned probably social skills early on. You know and they had to survive I guess somehow and I mean they're exceptional kids.

Vivian: You know the big point is... (Bow: Right. We dropped out from Harvard.) you know the big point that I always like to make is. I kind of see like two it's mainly divided into two different groups.., and it's making both point exactly but when you look at people in general. There is two different types of people. There's academically smart people and then there's people that are I guess you would put it (Daisy: common sense) right, "street wise" or whatnot but these people they are smart.., they've got what it takes but they may not further their education as far as they want to. And then there's ones in the middle that go ahead and take it to next level and they may achieve most probably. But the people that are book smart and academically successful may not it get as far as people that aren't even educated at all.

Daisy: Well, you know, I look it I think that generally schools and society is just too competitive. And parents are pushing their kids exactly what you were saying you've got into this top school because it's number one and you're not gonna have your own law practice, you're not gonna be made an associate, you're not gonna be a neurosurgeon if you don't get into this school.., and the thing is there's an enormous amount of pressure on these children. I think that it's too much to take for most kids at that age and the other thing is maybe some of them are not that smart and they can't take the medical degree or law degree. (Vivian: they're not cut out for it) Yeah, we have to realize there's nothing wrong with some guy who did fairly well in school but he pushed himself to be the best he could be but he ended up being... I don't know in the army or ended up running a video shop. But he's doing well and he's making a bit of money he's doing what he enjoys. We put too much thing on this, you know, you've got to make this much money, you've got to have this status in society.

Vivian: There are people that are satisfied in the sector that they're in and earning the amount that they are earning and living the life that they are they are maybe people that are raised from, you know, filthy rich families that may be happy just, you know, working in an art studio creating their own, you know, pieces of art. Whereas someone from the streets wants a high education and wants to come out of the best schools so that they can you know do the best they can.

Bow: People respond to different ways of learning too, some people learn from experience thing from a hands on thing, some people learn from visual things, some people learn from listening to things, some people learn from reading.

Vivian: But the little kids' point was father mother why can't you accept the fact that I am trying my best and I'm gonna try to (Daisy: And this is my best) right, and continue trying my best but this is probably, you know, it's not saying hey you're dumb or anything...but this is just as far as he goes and maybe it's time to look elsewhere or just be satisfied with what he is doing.

Daisy: This is what I can do for you and I think that's the problem his parents and society is just putting way too much pressure on people. Even my father you know I my entire high school even from elementary school I took music classes and I want to be a musician. And I even had an invitation for an audition at the Conservatorium of music which is like a once in a lifetime of opportunity. It doesn't happen to a lot of people but my father said "No way, you're going to university you're gonna study economics" and I ended up doing that because I felt pressured by him stayed there for a year and a half and bombed out completely and it took me five years to go back to university and do what I was interested in which happened to be English Literature. But I was pressured into doing that and I failed because I was not happy. And I think inevitably all of these children are going to fail or grow up with incredible complexes that their parents have given them. They're not going to be healthy.

三册1B
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SIDE B
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Vivian: Why not put the same standards on children as we do on ourselves you know everyone always says "Hey, so, are you happy?" No I got this terrible job, I'm stressed out, I never get any sleep I don't enjoy life etcetera, etcetera. But then doesn't that apply for children as well, I mean if you're not satisfied with your job but you're making lots of money but you're still not happy right. And people always say hey you got to do something that you like to do that way you Can do it for the rest of your life. It's the same with children hey education is long term as well, you know, you're going for what preschool all the way to, you know, after that even more for some people they got eight more or twelve more years even after high school...

Bow: Sure hopefully it's a lifelong, lifelong thing...education.

Vivian: No, you know I have a godfather, excuse me, godfather who still educates himself. He is...in his sixties now early sixties he's the most intelligent person that I have ever met. He educates himself on a daily basis you know he still goes to school he still reads books and newspapers and he's always trying to get a higher education always trying to, you know, kind of pick at my brain even with stimulating conversations.

Luke: I think the thing is people the thing about jobs that's so weird about back home is that people define themselves so much by their jobs not by who they are.., that's why you have these people who were like well I happen to work for this company or whatever and it's like oh what's your position and a big drawing point for a lot of people if they are trying to get someone... hire someone for a job.., highly qualified person it's the title that they're giving you will be the executive co...junior executive in charge of marketing... it's a long title that's ridiculous. It's just a name but it gives the people the feeling of status and it's like this kind of pay off for everything you've done and everything and it's just it's bizarre. I think it's like.., the first question you get asked back home is so what do you do and that's basically it and people can sort of decide based on that if you're worth talking to.

Daisy: Exactly, yeah, that really annoys me I have a problem with that.

Bow: I think it's actually more here in Asia the status thing where once you enter certain status you can't leave it. I mean.., in the States you can move between titles here once you are stamped with a title and status that's pretty much it for you and you really can't move into other circles. For example I have a friend who was he studied architecture and art at the same time and he came to Korea and he teaches architecture and he taught architecture through painting. And it was a very interesting way to visualize architecture in a two dimensional medium. And they didn't accept him here and they didn't accept him as... he was.., he had to be either one or the other he had to be either an artist or an architect he couldn't be both. And I think that's kind of that limits a lot of people once they finish their higher education and move into certain jobs.

Luke: I think that's a Korean thing, too. I think there isn't less competition within companies. There's sort of an understanding once you work at this company you're part of the family, I work for this company or for this company and everybody knows their place and it sort of there is more of a team a bit of co-operative spirit. There's not as much room for the advancement and there's not as much drive to really to really work hard.

Vivian: Well the reason being is because eventually you're gonna get up there but you always have to start from the bottom and even if you come from great college or university you start from a certain position that they have a name for. And then after two years you without exception unless you really were bad apple you go to the next level and so eventually after twenty years you gonna hit that top you know.., to see.

Luke: How does it work? Everybody seems to be doing that but their salary is like maybe on average one million and six hundred or seven hundred a month. But they say the living standard now people need like 3 million at least with a kid and a wife how do they?

Daisy: Bonuses... they get bonuses.

Luke: Still it's not gonna make it 3 million a month.

Vivian: No, no, no, no... the bonus is actually a lot of the times more than your salary that's what it is you get the bonuses the big bonus every couple of months or how many times a year that are actually many times more than the... And it depends on what projects you may be doing you get another promotion then.

Luke: But then and like America the key to getting the bonuses or stuff is not to like get out there shake things up and see what you want to do better than everyone else. It's make way don't make waves just be quiet be patient and things will pay off for you.

Vivian: How about going back to things that we are talking with Korean society versus the American work force? What do you think about this? I notice that in Korea many people go to university and pick a subject that they're going to study a major or whatever. For example I know people who choose I'm... I majored in architecture for example and so what do you do now what company do you work at now obviously expecting him to say I work in such and such architectural company or whatever but Iow and behold he says I work in English education or, you know, something almost the opposite of what they majored in. I don't understand how that is possible but here it is.

Bow: I'll take that on.

Vivian: Ok.

Bow: I think actually that is what is happening with so called x-generation in America and I read this article about this kid he had graduated high school with like uh... history major or something. And he was sitting in a hot tub and his apartment was, you know, like a thousand dollars a month apartment or whatever. And he was complaining that he couldn't find...he couldn't find a job in his major. And the thing is why they call him the x-generation is another thing all together the x-generation they complain about things like that so they end up working, at you know coffee shops or whatever they can because but they are not trying as hard as their parents who were the baby boomers who did most of them if they studied architecture or history. They went into those kind of jobs for the reason that they wanted their kids to have better life.

Vivian: So your point is the reason why people these days are running off to other fields is because they don't want to try on their own?

Bow: Because they don't have the same reasons as their parents did or those baby boomers kids before you know...and uh yeh...I think it's all over the world these days it's just like, I think kids are becoming...

Daisy: Lazy?

Bow: Yeh... they're not like I think everyone has a gift.., they're not like a lot of people...yeh...they are not even trying. They just like gave up on society they gave up themselves and this is what everybody else is doing so that's what I'm gonna do...um...in Korea I know that people will choose majors because other people are doing it. It's popular that's not necessarily a bad thing to not work in your major. It's just like oh you have education on this. l knew a guy whose major was French... so I was like "Do you speak French?" "No," "What do you do?", "I work for, you know, a company." OK. Great.

Vivian: Because in the American society...it's either one or two things first ok this job is very popular it's going to be... when I was about to graduate all the teachers were pushing us everyone if you haven't decided you should seriously consider computers and computer science, computer programming everyone you know.., the salaries gonna be up and be one hundred plus and you know and that's what they're encouraging or if you have a talent... I had one of my best friends was a genius and, you know, artistically another one played, you know, the sax like you know you've never heard. And so if you had a specific talent they say go toward that, you know, go to Julliard or whatever or they try to tell you these are gonna be the fields that are going to be there's gonna be lots of jobs available or the salaries are going be really big in four years when you graduate.

Bow: I give you more specific detail about of my own decision when I was going to college or applying for colleges. I like drawing and I like designing things so I just thought and Luke had a valid point about the status thing in America and when you're in high school you look at all those factors and architects sounds pretty good, you know, it's a status position and I do like doing the stuff then once I started getting into it...um...I really like the design classes and things like that the other stuff I didn't really get into and urn... (Luke: You like the creative aspects) I like the creative aspects but I learned that it's not just that in architecture you can't just be the designer you got to be the business man and you gotta be a mathematician you gotta be an engineer you gotta be all these things. I didn't wanna do any of that even though like I put myself into this position that well I'm just go ahead and do it. So I got jobs in architecture and some of them I liked but then some of them I just realized there's gotta be another way to fulfill I mean I can still use my education just not as what people think an architect is. I don't want to be a number in company and I don't wanna be drawing other peoples' designs for the rest of my life.

Daisy: You're looking for the personal satisfaction.

Bow: Yeah. And I think that's why I am in that situation or I didn't take a job in my major.

Daisy: So you slowly strayed from what you thought would be...

Luke: Not necessarily...yeh...I mean in what society thinks that you are supposed to do you have to be the architect. He is an architect. I mean I still consider myself an architect even though i'm not working in the architectural office.

Vivian: You know I did the same thing. I mean I wanted to be a musician and my father made me go to university and study economics which I just knew from the first day I didn't wanna do. Then I eventually went back to university and studied English Literature. Everybody was asking me like why are you studying this, why aren't you doing anything else well I had a musical education since I was young and that's what my job is now but I chose it because one I wanted that uh... stimulation that you get from tertiary education and I wanted to know things I wanted to understand literature and to have better understanding of the world and society and I think that it did definitely improve my understanding of those things. But everything is interconnected what Bow was saying about his architectural degree and the way he now applies it in his life. For me my education in English Literature has helped me write better lyrics helped me understand lyrics has helped me love reading which is, you know, the best education you ever gotta get is picking up a book and reading it. And I think that perhaps the x-generation what you were talking about.., may be they have become lazy because I think kids are much more privileged now than they were 20 years ago. But maybe it's also because these kids went to university and picked a major like history or science or something like that. And they know they don't wanna be a history high school teacher or you know a scientist in some factory punting numbers on a computer. Maybe they are looking for some more personal satisfaction in their lives. I think that if that is true and they are holding out and finding something that's gonna make them happy that's good. If they're finding something that's gonna pay them fix figures that's not good. I hope that people are looking for personal satisfaction.

Luke: I think there's a lot of disenchantment with.., with that whole for our parents were alright You know you getta a job you getta a stable life that's how they that's how they were raised that's what they knew for people... there is a bit of a line between people our age. There's the get out there and go getters that are always so chipper and just wanna they are always motivated, they are always happy and they just wanna get to the top everyday is sunny day. Yeh...and then they're are other people who are just like there is other things to life than just like climbing the corporate ladder then, you know, until you forty and then, you know, divorcing your wife getting a sports car blowing your brains out or something.

Vivian: I know another point that can be made if you look at Korean culture too. You see in general not necessarily because of education but these families with children that stay with the family way beyond the years that we would stay with our family. I was.., everyone always says you know even 5 years ago, "Why are you so young and living alone?" they think I was disgraced by my family or for some reason, hey you turn eighteen you're out of the house... in early foreign society you're a bum.., you're literally a bum and eating off your parents you know.

Daisy: If you still living with your parents.

Vivian: Yeh, you're disgraced from the neighborhood they always say hey so and so's kids still in the house and they are 20-something but the culture's different yes I understand. But I was just thinking another aspect to that is recently in the news if you've been listening you hear about all these universities turning in these figures where they have so many students but nobody in the classroom reason being one, because these kids don't want to get out there they don't know what to do once they get out there and second, well there's a lack of job because no one's filling in, you know the jobs there's not enough jobs for them after they graduate so they instead of staying five or six years they take off a year, and then come back for 6 months and then they take off another year because they try to extend that um that eventual, you know gotta get out in the society thing.

Luke: But another thing is you gotta realize that as time goes on you're not just static entity, you know, if you structure education out over time like the way I was thinking and the person I was when I first started university (Vivian: it changes) it's totally I'm totally different person and can I qualify a person, can I qualify the person that I was seven years ago to make all the decisions for what I'm going to do for rest of my life. I was, I was a bonehead back then I'm still not much better now but I wouldn't trust the person I was then to make the decisions for who I am today.

Vivian: Even the person you are in one year you change dramatically and then 7 years think about it. (Luke: sure) and for me even when I first went into school again it was just like I was just living a totally different life than everyone else my age that school was not for me at that time, you know, it was everyone was experiencing freedom and having the time away from their parents for the first time partying every night. I was partying too but I also had a full time job (Luke: different responsibility) exactly, I just had different ambitions it was so much different from my fellow, you know, classmates so it just was not right for me at that time. I did want the education but it just seemed like that I would be pushed backward almost being influenced by the people that were next to me and I was just thinking I think I wanna come back after I have matured a little more myself, second, when I have more clear grasp of what I wanna study and that I do want to study and I maybe then I would be able to concentrate a bit more on my studies. I knew then already that I wanted to study seriously and not be parting every night and studying in the day time. I wanted to just study and work.

Luke: Even if you know what you want to study at a certain time. (Vivian: It changes) the reality and so does the technology and the work force and what's available out there and things move so fast these days that there's no such things as job as security as our parents knew or whatever. So the bottom line is, yeh, to be taught the most valuable thing you can get from any school education is how to be well rounded and how to be able to move and adapt and how to just have a whole bunch of different strengths and be able to change at will whenever something changes in the work force or in what job's demand.

Vivian: So virtually like anything else in life education is another complicated thing because you can't do one and not complete the other. I mean we were just talking about earlier how you want to find peace with yourself so you can go after the topic or the major that you want to study in school and what will make you happy and yet now you have to be well rounded still to keep your job and to keep that you know security in your job and it's not as easy as pie.

Daisy: Well, I think that the really important issue here is that your education is not just something you get from college that it's also an ongoing process whether that be in your job or in your life and I personally I hope to call myself a student until the day I die. I think the more you learn the less you realize you know and it just encourages you to continue that education and to learn more.

Vivian: And if you are a well developed person and you get along well with the people that around you and stuff you know as we were talking about earlier the street wise kind of person. You, you further yourself in the work place as well because if you look at people who aren't so you know don't get along so well with people around them then you can succeed as far just because you're talented.

Bow: But to reiterate what Daisy was saying is that um... I want to make this point. You don't necessarily have to go to college to get an education. And I will give you another example that when I was living in Korea I had decided to stop living in Korea and go to graduate school. And the reason was because I believed all that stuff like you have to educate yourself you have to go to institution. So I went to the graduate school that I was going to apply to it was an art school and I met some of the students in there and they were so colorless and I thought they would be so great because they are artists and stuff but they were all kind of they had the same kind of M.O. as just like any kind of student. Whereas the people that I meet here in Korea are so much more colorful and I learn so much more from them and like or other people like that come here from different countries of the world I learn so much more than having that paper.

Vivian: Well you know you gotta think that being in a foreign country and you have so many people from different lands come here. Those people that came here they're not run of the mill kind of people.., they're.., first they gotta have guts to go somewhere else and they were interested in learning more and growing and developing within themselves.

Bow: Yes, I agree and also I thought. I'm not gonna to graduate school and I'm gonna make the world my class room. And another way would be this is good base to travel to other countries and learn about other cultures which I really haven't got the chance to do but again you can still do that without visually seeing that a little bit like vicariously through other people that do and go and have these experiences you know like people that were there they might think about going to Thailand but would they really know why would they have a lot details of like uh, why they would wanna go there or do they just wanna go to like cool beach and do drugs you know.

Daisy: Well you know I agree with everything both of you have just said but I also think an education cannot be replaced if you enter that institution or that education for the right reasons. I don't think the right reason are going for the job on the Wall street or the six figured salaries. But if you go into that institution and you're mentally prepared for what you're going to learn and you're using that information in a practical way not just in the theoretical way that society has told you should use it. Then I don't think there's anything that can replace that type of education.

Bow: We might all agree at that point. But then again like it still is the fact that people need that piece of paper to get on.

Vivian: Yeh reality bites.

Daisy: That's true. I think you do if you want to be in a profession that requires you to have a science degree or that requires you to have a degree in psychiatry or whatever of course it's necessary.

Vivian: Or you just can't get beyond the barrier there are still people who practice and who work in those field they may not have a piece of paper but most of time in general you need it.

Daisy: Right, but I specifically talking about professions like psychiatry. I mean you can.., because psychiatrist unless you have 7 year degree.

Vivian: Unless you're Dear Abby.

Bow: Also I think this is philosophy of the x-generation which is while I go bust my butt for 4 years and get my degree but now I'm gonna be a bartender because it's more fun and if I like lose my job.

Vivian: You still have security.

Bow: Yes. I just can go back and become a history teacher.

Daisy: I don't see anything bad with that though.

Bow: But I don't either.

Daisy: I don't see anything wrong with it.

Bow: No, I'm not saying it in negative way.

Vivian: It's a something insurance.

Daisy: No.

Bow: I am just stating the fact.

Daisy: I think so a bartender with university degree that has a broad knowledge of history or you know psychology would be a fascinating bartender. I'd go to that bar. He probably make a good living owning a bar and tending that bar. I don't see any problem with that.

Bow: The job bartender is derogatory.

Vivian: But any job.

Bow: Another job that is outside of your major.

Daisy: That's the thing I think that it doesn't matter what you study that education somewhere down the track is going to benefit you as long as you have approached that education with open mind and you've actually gained something from it.

Vivian: And also you don't have to necessarily have I mean after you have that piece of paper you are still educating yourself not necessarily by going to school but there are many people who educate themselves like I said my godfather to the States still educates himself and is always looking for a new you know.

Daisy: You know that's really important too, furthering your education and constantly wanting to get increase your knowledge but I also think that you know if we just approach our education in a different way without the capitalistic ideals behind it and thinking or encouraging your children to go to school for different reasons not because you have to win not because you have to be this or do that just for the reason that education was originally created by Greek philosophers you know to improve you as human being to grasp the higher faculties and get something from them.

Vivian: And maybe before we close since we talked about early education you know later on education life now and work. Maybe we should touch base before we end the conversation on you know education in your later years you know these days you hear a lot about people going back to get that piece of paper or you know still like I said my godfather still I mean he has had that piece of paper but still continuing to you know strive for more and higher education. Do you think you still be studying and maybe groping more knowledge?

Luke: I don't know if I'll be academically studying I might be I'd like to leave the option open. I wouldn't be I wouldn't feel ashamed or like I was going backwards by going back to school if it was something that interested me. but I just think that hopefully the kind of jobs I'll end up with will allow me to explore different avenues and to grow in different ways and to become more enlightened with different things and I mean that's kind of that's hopefully what it is... they say you know the best way to be successful and happy is to find something you really like and figure out a way to get paid for it and if you can do that that's pretty good.

Daisy: You know I definitely agree with everything you just said I hopefully I want to always be a student whether it be at an academic institution or student of life but I believe when I was last at college I took a few philosophy classes and I loved them and I think that's my next step, I'm gonna go back and I'm gonna get another degree in philosophy not for my job just because I love it and that is I think the essential reason for studying. If you love it and you are interested it then go and study it.

Vivian: Right. I definitely agree, I found that I am very satisfied oh I wanna learn this or these days I wanna take lessons doing this because it satisfies me not because it's going to get me higher up on that chain, It will eventually, It satisfies me and gives me some sort of personal gratification being able to learn another you know trade or learning more knowledge.

Luke: I think of a lot of employers when they are looking to hire someone the way that everyone these days is so over qualified for so many jobs. People have gone to school for so long and have learned so much about so many jobs about their fields and stuff so specialized. I think the really difference is the edge you'll get is this is being well rounded interesting person. I mean no one wants to work with someone whose the best and very intelligent and very hard working but has a lame personality and is a total deadbeat to hang out with, You work with your co-workers you wanna be to able to get along with them you wanna be stimulated by them you wanna be interested in them you have to work with the people,

Bow: I disagree kind of a little bit. Yes at some points I do agree depending on the job what if it's like NASA, I don't really want or like heart surgeon I don't want the guy joking around.

Luke: The majority of jobs I'm saying.

Bow: The lame jobs like accounting and stuff.

Daisy: I don't know a heart surgeon with a humorous personality.

Bow: Ok, Maybe like when he's not.,,

Vivian: Squeezing your heart,

Bow: Maybe outside or something.., Hey you want hear a joke. You got three days to live.

Daisy: Yeh with scalpel in your head.

Bow: Just kidding.

Luke: I mean how much of your time of course part of whole work thing and having a cohesion in any work environment is you do you work for a bit and you work well together but then you're not working when you get to kick back a bit can you have anything to talk about can you hang out it's cool can you go for some beers after a hard days' work. I am sure guys from NASA go out for beers after a hard days' work.

Daisy: That has to be in any working environment whether it be NASA or whether it be this studio here some kind of camaraderie between people. And you know that is something that life and living and relationships can only give you. So I think that you know in closing that an education is irreplaceable and it's very important but we have to look at the reasons why we are educating ourselves once again.

Vivian: Right.

Luke: And also try to foster in our own children and in our schools and in our teachers an attitude of not competition with another not by route appreciation and learning of things but an absorbing of things internalization of ideas and an ability to interact and cooperate with your peers throughout all stages of growth and throughout education because those are the values that are really those are the traits that really valued when you are in an actual job's situation and which will benefit everyone like all of humanity in the long run,

Vivian: Ok and also you know I think and foster other ways to educate them like don't make them lazy like we're talking about x-generation encourage them to have part time jobs while they're at school so that they learn other lessons as well.

Bow: Um and also I think that our views today I wanna say this to our listeners that you know our views have been really pretty much liberal. You know a lot of conservative views out there people will say no this is the right way and it really is up to you these are our opinions and uh, you know everyone has different opinions this group here just has more I think liberal opinions than other people.

Luke: Yes but if truth really be known. We're right.

Daisy: Amen.

Vivian: We hope.

Luke: We know it.

分拆文本：

                  1.《听说大突破》3册1.Jobs and EducationA面开始到14分20秒的语音文本
SIDE A

Today's subject is jobs and education...uh...this is some-thing that any of us can relate to.

Vivian: This is Viv.
Daisy: Yes. This is Daisy. Definitely. You know there's no substitute for a great education, I think and you know if you wanna get that job. But then again, you have to be educating yourself for the right reasons. But I guess we'll get into that a little bit later so, how about you, Bow?
Bow: Oh, yes...hey this is Bow. That is short for Boseesis. I have two things about the job and education...over to you Luke?
Luke: I think a job is an education and I think education is not something you do at school necessarily. I think it's something you do for whole life and you do it wherever you are whenever you are whatever you are.
Vivian: Well obviously, they are both related and we'll discuss more about it. Here we go.

Daisy: Well, you know school for me...um...back way way way back.., a long time ago, I really didn't enjoy it myself. I didn't have good school experience. How about you, Bow?

Bow: Oh! Are you talking about high school or college?

Daisy: High school.

Bow: Uh. High school.., um...Well I really didn't care much about studying... I like to um...have fun. And they say like in America, it was the best years of your life.

Daisy: Right.

Bow: Well they weren't really I suppose.

Daisy: No, me neither.

Bow: Because I fooled around so much I got kicked out.

Vivian: You got kicked out of Catholic school?

Bow: I didn't say Catholic school. How did you know that? Viv, Yes I did.

Daisy: For what?

Bow: Um...we have a demerit system and if you get up to 20 demerits they kick you out. And they kind of just let me keep going and I had 40. Twice the amount and they said we have to make an example of you, mister Bow and they kicked me out.

Vivian: So we're saying like what exactly were the reasons you've got demerits, you know, like what kind of a...you know...

Bow: Let me see... I got caught cheating.., once that was 5 demerits and then uh...I lit a fire in the pottery room and that was.., uh that was probably the end of it right there.., the fire thing.

Daisy: Did you do it on purpose?

Bow: Yes, I did. Because there was this piece of work that I didn't really like and I poured some glue in, and lit it on fire but then I tried to put it out with water but then it kind of dispersed all over the place and I got in trouble.

Daisy: So kind of you weren't planning to be that big but it just kind of got out of hand.

Bow: Yeh it escalated.

Daisy: How about you Luke? How was your school experiences?

Luke: Similar experience. It was more focused on... on social life, and recreational stuff than actual studying. I think that's what a lot of high school and elementary school is for people back home. The only time you really buckled down when you get to university just because you have to because the course load does increase. But I never really yeh I was never that freaked up by high school.., anything I applied myself a bit more in college and just goofed off got in trouble... I used to sell fire crackers in my locker and one time I taped one to a candle and I tried to blow it out and it exploded and I got suspended for a day for that, and an other time I threw a pie in the cafeteria across the room I got in trouble for that started a food fight.

Bow: I used to throw books out of the window of the library. That's kind of similar.

Luke: That's pretty bad.

Daisy: I, I used to steal books from library.

Luke: Yeh.

Vivian: Bad girl.

Luke: Terrible.

Daisy: How about you Viv?

Vivian: Me. I was a such a good girl in school. I used to look down upon all those girls who used to gather in bathrooms and smoke in the stalls I was always early to school.., and my PE teachers just loved me... they just ate me up. I swear. I can call them and I'd just open my mouth and they were like "Oh! Vivian, you're such a good student"...yeh...I kind of had it made in school I guess.

Daisy: Um, did you do well in school?

Vivian: Oh yeh. I was a straight A student.

Daisy: And did you graduate from high school valedictorian?

Vivian: No, not exactly. Last 6 months at school were so tragic for me and my mom. We just.., you know... I dropped out of school. I just couldn't take it any more being a perfect student.

Daisy: The pressure.., the pressure of being straight A student?

Vivian: I can it's just you wanna try different things and after just everything being handed to you on a silver platter.., you know you just wanna do something different.., and just one day I just decided well I didn't wanna go to school and I wanted to play hooky and it's just it was so much freedom all at once I guess.

Bow: That's kind of interesting. The difference between the Korean you were raised sort of in between a Korean educational system and American style of education. And one thing I noticed about the Korean education system is from the time you enter school maybe pre-school to the time maybe to the end of high school, this is the time where we goofed off basically applied ourselves a minimal amount of effort to get the grades and get things done. Whereas that whole time in Korea, in the Korean society, children are being pushed to study almost every minute they have. They go to school and they are pushed to study they go to academic institutes to study, they're often pushed by their parents to have.., to take piano lessons or gymnastic lessons or skating lessons or any kind of lessons. They never really have time to just be kids and goof off and play and stuff. And then when they hit university it's almost like they regress back into the childhood state of mind and if you seen university classrooms with the speaking and chatting during class leaning on each other and cheating and just goofing off and having a gay ol' time. It's just so contrasted to what an American university classroom would look like where everyone's attentive and conscientiously studying and giving their full attention to the professor.

Bow: Well, that's the thing if they're not then they've kicked out.

Luke: Exactly.

Vivian: I definitely agree. That's exactly how the difference in cultures is. My mother being Korean and my father being American. My father was more submissive in the relationships so he kind of let my mother take over the family. But that's exactly how she was and that's why I felt so much stress by the end of school was because from the minute you are in elementary school she was pushing me to do everything perfectly whereas everyone was just, all the other kids especially in elementary or junior high you're just having fun. I was pressured you know so much to get the grades and make the grade. Whereas after that then she always told me as soon as you are an adult as soon as you're eighteen you do whatever you want but until then okay it doesn't matter, no matter what as long as you graduate after that you can do whatever you want because then you're set you're made to go wherever. But in the American culture my dad was actually saying the opposite, enjoy now and then get into really good school and then you'll really study because that's what's gonna lead to a good job. Totally the opposite.

Daisy: Well, I think that everybody it doesn't matter what culture you are from. Everybody is in a different situation with their family. Some parents are just naturally pushy and they want their children to do well and some parents don't care. But the Korean education system and I think probably a lot of other education systems in Asia especially the Japanese one seems to be quite unique in the fact at that, you know Luke was saying there is so much pressure on these children from a young age. And I think that's absurd. Basically children are sponges and they can learn anything they can absorb but even if they learn it do they absorb it. I think that they're just learning a parrot like for want of a better word and they're just taking in this information remembering it using it in their practical way. And not being able to apply anything that they learned in theory and there's too much of it too too much to process. I don't think they're able to process it and even in universities I had a friend who was studying engineering and he had this assignment with an American professor was visiting and the American professor said go ahead and design one of those big cranes that you see on construction sites. And he thought, oh well, I'm a fourth year student I should know how to do that but he didn't. So he went to a construction site and asked the site manager how would you design one of them. And the site manager said who are you. And he said I'm a fourth year university student. And he laughed at him and said, "Go back to school, you do that when you get a real job." So there's no practical implication of anything they learn in school or university.

Vivian: And that brings us to a point where.., and this is a kind of something they've been focusing on recently is the difference in education, the methods of education that they practice overseas and Asia versus Europe or the western countries which is in the classroom situation the teachers encourage students to respond even argue with the student and debate and test out their ideas and theories in the classroom. Whereas in Asian cultures you don't wanna talk back to your teacher, you want to pretty much say everything you say is correct because once you argue or you were to say, well, "What about this?" Then that means in the culture you're talking back to the teacher. That's like that calls for reprimanding the child or the student.

Bow: I think, um, the reason why the education system in Asia is not good. It's not just because I grew up in different kind of education system but I think that if you look at it more in a general sense of child development during those years if you're giving a child stress. Of course that's going to affect them later on in their life whereas kids are just designed so to speak to, to be curious about and find out things by themselves and like ah... have fun as they grow up and develop. And I think like people that have a lot of stress when they are children it doesn't have to do with their education but maybe from divorce or, you know, some other kind of traumatic event in their lives does affect them later on socially. And I think that's where college and being more strict in the western world is a good remedy for that. That's because I think that's where people really kind of develop themselves.

Vivian: Right. I definitely agree. Because in the Korean culture or in many other Asian cultures as well after so much you know ten years of strict educational.., you know.., pressures from the parents and teachers in school you all of sudden have freedom once you go to college here in Korea. Whereas in a western culture, you're given all this freedom at a younger age to explore your ideas, go out and do things experiment with your friends and whatnot... but then in the college it's not because of the pressures you get from your parents but then you kind of mentally develop yourself and.., you want to... you have to live on your own, you have to go to school, you know, you're responsible for many things away from your parents, and so you just kind of naturally hone in on your, you know, you become an adult. You're more mature whereas here you.., you break free all of a sudden and you actually getting really immature.

Luke: I think that comes down to you're taught in the western society to think for yourself. You're taught to be independent a little bit more. You're given.., there's a little more you have more control over your free time but you are made to understand the consequences if you don't use some of that free time to study or to do these things.

Bow: Yes, exactly.

Luke: You value your free time more because of that.

Bow: And I'll give you an example of that exactly you do get a sense of freedom from your parents when you go to school in America but this is exactly right. What happened to me was that in freshman year they load you down like seven courses in architecture right? So you have a really tight schedule but the first year of college you're away from your parents so you can get away with murder. So that's what we do we drink every night on weekdays and then we like skip classes and stuff and then all of sudden you get a notice from the dean that says you're grade point average is below two. You know and if it continues this way you're gonna get kicked out so then we say to ourselves well we kind of want this freedom to continue if we get kicked out. We're gonna have to move back in with our parents. So then we kind of buckle down a little bit but as you go through college more and more you start to actually learn things that you like...like you're learning things that are interesting and when you're in elementary school and in high school learning about like Math and stuff and they are just force feeding you this stuff you don't naturally wanna learn it.

Vivian: Ye! You have curriculum that you have to take.

Daisy: Um... one of the interesting things is you know I grew up in Australia. The Australian education system is different again from the American system.

Bow: What is it actually?

Daisy: The Australian education system? (Bow: I don't know) ...well in America your focus is basically still on the three R's right? reading, writing, and arithmetic. Well it's a little bit different in Australia up until grade eleven you can...uh...you must study Math and English. The only compulsory subject when you graduate is English you don't have to do Math. And you the, choices that you have to pick you can basically design your own syllabus in high school, um, which I think is fantastic idea. And there are subjects ranging from art to metal working, wood working, photography, um music, dance, sports. It's, uh, there are so many different curriculum to choose from that anyone can basically succeed and get enough points to get into university if they want to.

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2..、《听说大突破》3册1.Jobs and EducationA面14分20秒到结束的语音文本

Bow: But you have, have a core group of courses that you have to take too I mean you have electives a certain number of core courses that are mandatory...

Daisy: Right, but in the core groups you have English you don't ... math is not.., you know a prequisite for college unless you got you need it for the course you're gonna study in college. But the core groups would be the sciences, history and English as compulsory, that's the only one that is compulsory. But in those core groups there are several different things to study, the sciences they can range from anything from biology. I think there's natural sciences which is just a study of basically the environment and current events and things like that. But I think that is good idea, and the reason being because all children and all people are not designed for the three R's if you're just raising students and I think it definitely has things to do with economic groups, too. Children that grew up in...in privileged families have been learning to read and write even before they got into kindergarten but some kid from the ghetto is already ten paces behind a privileged child. But, he might be an extremely talented photographer or artist. I think that we need to gear our curriculum in schools around that to um, be targeted all children not one group of children. And that way everybody has an opportunity to succeed.

Vivian: Well I agree. I guess it depends upon which school that you're going to but when I went to school in Georgia it was a very restricted curriculum that we all had to attend. But then I changed to international school and it was similar to the system that you're describing now. Whereas we had to take everything which is one elective um...when I went to the international school they had a curriculum very much similar to what you have just described. You had to take certain, you had to take certain classes but they had 6-7 different what do you say? Venuses of that for example science like you mentioned you can study natural sciences, or you can study biology and whatnot. In the other schools take each one as you went up one grade but here you get to choose which one you want to study and you can choose and study it until you graduate. And the remainder of your classes...similar.., the same thing even history you could study just contemporary or current history or you know about...

Daisy: Well my major was English Literature and obviously for English Literature you don't need math. And I did very well in school and but if I had have taken math when I graduated from school. I wouldn't have got into the university that I did get into. And I also wouldn't have got the grades and that one grade in my final what is equivalent of the SATs ain the states that one grade for math would have brought me down probably an average maybe about 15 marks...

Vivian: Right. Eventually it brings down your grade point average because it's not what you are, you know talented in... honed on in.

Bow: Yeh but I think in other aspects of life you need math. People use even though like people in my university were always like I hate calculus why the hell.., why am I taking calculus. I'm never gonna use it again but it turns out.., they've proven that people use calculus everyday just not in the form of in numbers and stuff like that.

Daisy: But I took it for in eleven years, you know, it was just last year that I graduated so it wouldn't affect my grade to get into university I didn't take it. So I already had eleven years of training in it, So I think that's fair enough.

Luke: It teaches... I think it teaches students to be well rounded because that's the reality of the work force. If you're going to like if you think of the people you knew who went to college or studied something in high school with this thing in mind like I studied anthropology. I did not become an anthropologist. I didn't end up digging for bones or anything. Bow studied architecture but he didn't go on to study architecture. But the thing is we found work in different things, the thing is you the thing you study is not always the thing you end up doing.

Daisy: Sure.

Luke: But it might if you have variety of things you're learning, and you're learning how to manage your time and learning about different interests you have and stuff and if you'd just to be versatile then you have a dynamic education and then you sort of go in what ever directions you're able to take things that are offered to you.

Bow: But you say that you don't apply, you don't actually apply like the skills that you learn if you don't work as like. For example I don't work as architect but I do apply the education that I received from there like I do go to other countries and notice things architecturally that stimulate my intellect because I had the chance to learn that. I think that just because I'm not making money from what I studied. I think that's not really a big issue.

Daisy: No, I don't think it's an issue at all. And I think that is probably the main problem I have in all countries with um, tertiary education. When you go to college um... when I remember I took a class in college and the teacher asked why are you in this class. And every student answered well, I'm taking, you know, taking business, this is like part of the general requirements so I have to take it. Yeah, I wanna six figure salary or whatever and my answer was well I took it to get an education and there was another girl who had similar answer. And he said the only two who answered correctly were me and the other girl. The reason being is that education was never really put in place for you to get six figure salary. It was there to, you know, to improve or stimulate the higher faculties to make you an intelligent person to have an understanding of life and give you life experience, too.

Bow: Exactly, the point that I like to... an example that I'd like to make is at MIT they don't have the grading system like A, B, C or D or F, it's P or F, it's pass or fail. Which I think is good because it's getting you to it's gearing you toward real life, because in real life that's what it is. It's either you succeed or you don't. And it's not you kinda do you get a C you pass to the next level.., so I think actually I think all higher learning institutions should have that kind of grading system.

Luke: But if there, if they're only there to get you real job. I mean if we're saying that the reason to, to educate, educate yourself.., is to... is to get a broader understanding of the world around you and to teach you to be a better person. Then I think you should just learn like you're probably working through school anyway. You're gonna learn that if you don't cut the mustard you're not going have the job. But the shcooling thing I think, Yah, ok you weren't so strong in this.., you were strong in this.., you apply yourself it's gotta be motivated more by a personal conviction to learn that stuff. If you want to go just to get a job then you should probably just get a skill or something get a trade or something like that.

Daisy: Vocational school.

Luke: Yeh...exactly. But there's nothing wrong with that either. I mean it's useless. Yeh...

Bow: MIT is a high level vocational school.

Vivian: Sure I agree, that kind of education almost requires something like that but then when you're just about to enter um...college and you're a junior or senior don't you think that it kind of requires and I would want this for my own children, yeah, a grade, why? because you want the competition you want the competitiveness you want your child to feel like I want to beat this person next to me. I want to do better I wanna get one on top of him.

Vivian: I don't know...you know...

Luke: Maybe in business school.

Daisy: Sure I mean two different minds about that. I think that natural.,, a little bit of natural competitiveness is good but in high school um...I was the youngest of six children and my older.., older 5 brothers and sisters were incredibly successful. So even though my parents weren't pushing me I felt constantly that I had to achieve and I became like not, I'm not even just talking about grades here but an overachiever I had to do everything. I had to enter every competition. I had to come out and I had to be the school president because my sister was and my brother was. And I felt this competition all the time and eventually it worked against me. I was in Australia we call it "the tall puppy syndrome" and if you get too big they'll cut you down. And...um...I lost a lot of friends because people thought that I was a big head and because I always had to enter everything and I was doing it for some other reason to satisfy my family but in those situations I think competition can work against you.

Vivian: But many kids...students want to do it themselves because they want to. They want...I did it because I wanted to, I wanted to be on top of my class.

Bow: But there's the difference between competing with your class mates... to see if you can out do them and sort of pushing yourself and competing with yourself and seeing if you can push can strive to do these things. I think that's the big problem with the work force these days and with the education system is also that idea of competition instead of cooperation shouldn't be people be learning how to work with each other in productive ways instead of trying to outdo each other. That's... that's.., unproductive.

Vivian: But then society has changed the educational system so that you do have to compete with other kids. Why? Because there's hundred colleges out there and they're all ranked from one to one hundred and sure they're all good and as long as you get an education. Hey good to go, and you're always gonna get a job. But the fact of the matter is society um...makes this.., you know unseen kind of scale where they say what you went to your community college. I don't know I'd rather pick this dude from MIT or Harvard because he went to a yo0 know 5 star school. So, even though you may be smarter and you may have more qualifications, I'd rather pick this student from bigger named school.

Luke: You know where, you know where actually the paradox in that is that especially in America. People they are striving to get like um high salaries and whatnot and people that get into the better schools tend to get higher salaries. But what they consider to be successful is making a lot of money. And people who have.., the most millionaires in America are high school drop outs or haven't even entered high school. It was because they learned probably social skills early on. You know and they had to survive I guess somehow and I mean they're exceptional kids.

Vivian: You know the big point is... (Bow: Right. We dropped out from Harvard.) you know the big point that I always like to make is. I kind of see like two it's mainly divided into two different groups.., and it's making both point exactly but when you look at people in general. There is two different types of people. There's academically smart people and then there's people that are I guess you would put it (Daisy: common sense) right, "street wise" or whatnot but these people they are smart.., they've got what it takes but they may not further their education as far as they want to. And then there's ones in the middle that go ahead and take it to next level and they may achieve most probably. But the people that are book smart and academically successful may not it get as far as people that aren't even educated at all.

Daisy: Well, you know, I look it I think that generally schools and society is just too competitive. And parents are pushing their kids exactly what you were saying you've got into this top school because it's number one and you're not gonna have your own law practice, you're not gonna be made an associate, you're not gonna be a neurosurgeon if you don't get into this school.., and the thing is there's an enormous amount of pressure on these children. I think that it's too much to take for most kids at that age and the other thing is maybe some of them are not that smart and they can't take the medical degree or law degree. (Vivian: they're not cut out for it) Yeah, we have to realize there's nothing wrong with some guy who did fairly well in school but he pushed himself to be the best he could be but he ended up being... I don't know in the army or ended up running a video shop. But he's doing well and he's making a bit of money he's doing what he enjoys. We put too much thing on this, you know, you've got to make this much money, you've got to have this status in society.

Vivian: There are people that are satisfied in the sector that they're in and earning the amount that they are earning and living the life that they are they are maybe people that are raised from, you know, filthy rich families that may be happy just, you know, working in an art studio creating their own, you know, pieces of art. Whereas someone from the streets wants a high education and wants to come out of the best schools so that they can you know do the best they can.

Bow: People respond to different ways of learning too, some people learn from experience thing from a hands on thing, some people learn from visual things, some people learn from listening to things, some people learn from reading.

Vivian: But the little kids' point was father mother why can't you accept the fact that I am trying my best and I'm gonna try to (Daisy: And this is my best) right, and continue trying my best but this is probably, you know, it's not saying hey you're dumb or anything...but this is just as far as he goes and maybe it's time to look elsewhere or just be satisfied with what he is doing.

Daisy: This is what I can do for you and I think that's the problem his parents and society is just putting way too much pressure on people. Even my father you know I my entire high school even from elementary school I took music classes and I want to be a musician. And I even had an invitation for an audition at the Conservatorium of music which is like a once in a lifetime of opportunity. It doesn't happen to a lot of people but my father said "No way, you're going to university you're gonna study economics" and I ended up doing that because I felt pressured by him stayed there for a year and a half and bombed out completely and it took me five years to go back to university and do what I was interested in which happened to be English Literature. But I was pressured into doing that and I failed because I was not happy. And I think inevitably all of these children are going to fail or grow up with incredible complexes that their parents have given them. They're not going to be healthy.

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      3.第3册1.Jobs and Education B面29分20秒到43分12.5秒语音文本

三册1B
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SIDE B
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Vivian: Why not put the same standards on children as we do on ourselves you know everyone always says "Hey, so, are you happy?" No I got this terrible job, I'm stressed out, I never get any sleep I don't enjoy life etcetera, etcetera. But then doesn't that apply for children as well, I mean if you're not satisfied with your job but you're making lots of money but you're still not happy right. And people always say hey you got to do something that you like to do that way you Can do it for the rest of your life. It's the same with children hey education is long term as well, you know, you're going for what preschool all the way to, you know, after that even more for some people they got eight more or twelve more years even after high school...

Bow: Sure hopefully it's a lifelong, lifelong thing...education.

Vivian: No, you know I have a godfather, excuse me, godfather who still educates himself. He is...in his sixties now early sixties he's the most intelligent person that I have ever met. He educates himself on a daily basis you know he still goes to school he still reads books and newspapers and he's always trying to get a higher education always trying to, you know, kind of pick at my brain even with stimulating conversations.

Luke: I think the thing is people the thing about jobs that's so weird about back home is that people define themselves so much by their jobs not by who they are.., that's why you have these people who were like well I happen to work for this company or whatever and it's like oh what's your position and a big drawing point for a lot of people if they are trying to get someone... hire someone for a job.., highly qualified person it's the title that they're giving you will be the executive co...junior executive in charge of marketing... it's a long title that's ridiculous. It's just a name but it gives the people the feeling of status and it's like this kind of pay off for everything you've done and everything and it's just it's bizarre. I think it's like.., the first question you get asked back home is so what do you do and that's basically it and people can sort of decide based on that if you're worth talking to.

Daisy: Exactly, yeah, that really annoys me I have a problem with that.

Bow: I think it's actually more here in Asia the status thing where once you enter certain status you can't leave it. I mean.., in the States you can move between titles here once you are stamped with a title and status that's pretty much it for you and you really can't move into other circles. For example I have a friend who was he studied architecture and art at the same time and he came to Korea and he teaches architecture and he taught architecture through painting. And it was a very interesting way to visualize architecture in a two dimensional medium. And they didn't accept him here and they didn't accept him as... he was.., he had to be either one or the other he had to be either an artist or an architect he couldn't be both. And I think that's kind of that limits a lot of people once they finish their higher education and move into certain jobs.

Luke: I think that's a Korean thing, too. I think there isn't less competition within companies. There's sort of an understanding once you work at this company you're part of the family, I work for this company or for this company and everybody knows their place and it sort of there is more of a team a bit of co-operative spirit. There's not as much room for the advancement and there's not as much drive to really to really work hard.

Vivian: Well the reason being is because eventually you're gonna get up there but you always have to start from the bottom and even if you come from great college or university you start from a certain position that they have a name for. And then after two years you without exception unless you really were bad apple you go to the next level and so eventually after twenty years you gonna hit that top you know.., to see.

Luke: How does it work? Everybody seems to be doing that but their salary is like maybe on average one million and six hundred or seven hundred a month. But they say the living standard now people need like 3 million at least with a kid and a wife how do they?

Daisy: Bonuses... they get bonuses.

Luke: Still it's not gonna make it 3 million a month.

Vivian: No, no, no, no... the bonus is actually a lot of the times more than your salary that's what it is you get the bonuses the big bonus every couple of months or how many times a year that are actually many times more than the... And it depends on what projects you may be doing you get another promotion then.

Luke: But then and like America the key to getting the bonuses or stuff is not to like get out there shake things up and see what you want to do better than everyone else. It's make way don't make waves just be quiet be patient and things will pay off for you.

Vivian: How about going back to things that we are talking with Korean society versus the American work force? What do you think about this? I notice that in Korea many people go to university and pick a subject that they're going to study a major or whatever. For example I know people who choose I'm... I majored in architecture for example and so what do you do now what company do you work at now obviously expecting him to say I work in such and such architectural company or whatever but Iow and behold he says I work in English education or, you know, something almost the opposite of what they majored in. I don't understand how that is possible but here it is.

Bow: I'll take that on.

Vivian: Ok.

Bow: I think actually that is what is happening with so called x-generation in America and I read this article about this kid he had graduated high school with like uh... history major or something. And he was sitting in a hot tub and his apartment was, you know, like a thousand dollars a month apartment or whatever. And he was complaining that he couldn't find...he couldn't find a job in his major. And the thing is why they call him the x-generation is another thing all together the x-generation they complain about things like that so they end up working, at you know coffee shops or whatever they can because but they are not trying as hard as their parents who were the baby boomers who did most of them if they studied architecture or history. They went into those kind of jobs for the reason that they wanted their kids to have better life.

Vivian: So your point is the reason why people these days are running off to other fields is because they don't want to try on their own?

Bow: Because they don't have the same reasons as their parents did or those baby boomers kids before you know...and uh yeh...I think it's all over the world these days it's just like, I think kids are becoming...

Daisy: Lazy?

Bow: Yeh... they're not like I think everyone has a gift.., they're not like a lot of people...yeh...they are not even trying. They just like gave up on society they gave up themselves and this is what everybody else is doing so that's what I'm gonna do...um...in Korea I know that people will choose majors because other people are doing it. It's popular that's not necessarily a bad thing to not work in your major. It's just like oh you have education on this. l knew a guy whose major was French... so I was like "Do you speak French?" "No," "What do you do?", "I work for, you know, a company." OK. Great.

Vivian: Because in the American society...it's either one or two things first ok this job is very popular it's going to be... when I was about to graduate all the teachers were pushing us everyone if you haven't decided you should seriously consider computers and computer science, computer programming everyone you know.., the salaries gonna be up and be one hundred plus and you know and that's what they're encouraging or if you have a talent... I had one of my best friends was a genius and, you know, artistically another one played, you know, the sax like you know you've never heard. And so if you had a specific talent they say go toward that, you know, go to Julliard or whatever or they try to tell you these are gonna be the fields that are going to be there's gonna be lots of jobs available or the salaries are going be really big in four years when you graduate.

Bow: I give you more specific detail about of my own decision when I was going to college or applying for colleges. I like drawing and I like designing things so I just thought and Luke had a valid point about the status thing in America and when you're in high school you look at all those factors and architects sounds pretty good, you know, it's a status position and I do like doing the stuff then once I started getting into it...um...I really like the design classes and things like that the other stuff I didn't really get into and urn... (Luke: You like the creative aspects) I like the creative aspects but I learned that it's not just that in architecture you can't just be the designer you got to be the business man and you gotta be a mathematician you gotta be an engineer you gotta be all these things. I didn't wanna do any of that even though like I put myself into this position that well I'm just go ahead and do it. So I got jobs in architecture and some of them I liked but then some of them I just realized there's gotta be another way to fulfill I mean I can still use my education just not as what people think an architect is. I don't want to be a number in company and I don't wanna be drawing other peoples' designs for the rest of my life.

Daisy: You're looking for the personal satisfaction.

Bow: Yeah. And I think that's why I am in that situation or I didn't take a job in my major.

Daisy: So you slowly strayed from what you thought would be...

Luke: Not necessarily...yeh...I mean in what society thinks that you are supposed to do you have to be the architect. He is an architect. I mean I still consider myself an architect even though i'm not working in the architectural office.

Vivian: You know I did the same thing. I mean I wanted to be a musician and my father made me go to university and study economics which I just knew from the first day I didn't wanna do. Then I eventually went back to university and studied English Literature. Everybody was asking me like why are you studying this, why aren't you doing anything else well I had a musical education since I was young and that's what my job is now but I chose it because one I wanted that uh... stimulation that you get from tertiary education and I wanted to know things I wanted to understand literature and to have better understanding of the world and society and I think that it did definitely improve my understanding of those things. But everything is interconnected what Bow was saying about his architectural degree and the way he now applies it in his life. For me my education in English Literature has helped me write better lyrics helped me understand lyrics has helped me love reading which is, you know, the best education you ever gotta get is picking up a book and reading it. And I think that perhaps the x-generation what you were talking about.., may be they have become lazy because I think kids are much more privileged now than they were 20 years ago. But maybe it's also because these kids went to university and picked a major like history or science or something like that. And they know they don't wanna be a history high school teacher or you know a scientist in some factory punting numbers on a computer. Maybe they are looking for some more personal satisfaction in their lives. I think that if that is true and they are holding out and finding something that's gonna make them happy that's good. If they're finding something that's gonna pay them fix figures that's not good. I hope that people are looking for personal satisfaction.

Luke: I think there's a lot of disenchantment with.., with that whole for our parents were alright You know you getta a job you getta a stable life that's how they that's how they were raised that's what they knew for people... there is a bit of a line between people our age. There's the get out there and go getters that are always so chipper and just wanna they are always motivated, they are always happy and they just wanna get to the top everyday is sunny day. Yeh...and then they're are other people who are just like there is other things to life than just like climbing the corporate ladder then, you know, until you forty and then, you know, divorcing your wife getting a sports car blowing your brains out or something.

Vivian: I know another point that can be made if you look at Korean culture too. You see in general not necessarily because of education but these families with children that stay with the family way beyond the years that we would stay with our family. I was.., everyone always says you know even 5 years ago, "Why are you so young and living alone?" they think I was disgraced by my family or for some reason, hey you turn eighteen you're out of the house... in early foreign society you're a bum.., you're literally a bum and eating off your parents you know.

Daisy: If you still living with your parents.

Vivian: Yeh, you're disgraced from the neighborhood they always say hey so and so's kids still in the house and they are 20-something but the culture's different yes I understand. But I was just thinking another aspect to that is recently in the news if you've been listening you hear about all these universities turning in these figures where they have so many students but nobody in the classroom reason being one, because these kids don't want to get out there they don't know what to do once they get out there and second, well there's a lack of job because no one's filling in, you know the jobs there's not enough jobs for them after they graduate so they instead of staying five or six years they take off a year, and then come back for 6 months and then they take off another year because they try to extend that um that eventual, you know gotta get out in the society thing.

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      4.  第3册1.Jobs and EducationB面43分12.5秒到58分18秒结束的语音文本

Luke: But another thing is you gotta realize that as time goes on you're not just static entity, you know, if you structure education out over time like the way I was thinking and the person I was when I first started university (Vivian: it changes) it's totally I'm totally different person and can I qualify a person, can I qualify the person that I was seven years ago to make all the decisions for what I'm going to do for rest of my life. I was, I was a bonehead back then I'm still not much better now but I wouldn't trust the person I was then to make the decisions for who I am today.

Vivian: Even the person you are in one year you change dramatically and then 7 years think about it. (Luke: sure) and for me even when I first went into school again it was just like I was just living a totally different life than everyone else my age that school was not for me at that time, you know, it was everyone was experiencing freedom and having the time away from their parents for the first time partying every night. I was partying too but I also had a full time job (Luke: different responsibility) exactly, I just had different ambitions it was so much different from my fellow, you know, classmates so it just was not right for me at that time. I did want the education but it just seemed like that I would be pushed backward almost being influenced by the people that were next to me and I was just thinking I think I wanna come back after I have matured a little more myself, second, when I have more clear grasp of what I wanna study and that I do want to study and I maybe then I would be able to concentrate a bit more on my studies. I knew then already that I wanted to study seriously and not be parting every night and studying in the day time. I wanted to just study and work.

Luke: Even if you know what you want to study at a certain time. (Vivian: It changes) the reality and so does the technology and the work force and what's available out there and things move so fast these days that there's no such things as job as security as our parents knew or whatever. So the bottom line is, yeh, to be taught the most valuable thing you can get from any school education is how to be well rounded and how to be able to move and adapt and how to just have a whole bunch of different strengths and be able to change at will whenever something changes in the work force or in what job's demand.

Vivian: So virtually like anything else in life education is another complicated thing because you can't do one and not complete the other. I mean we were just talking about earlier how you want to find peace with yourself so you can go after the topic or the major that you want to study in school and what will make you happy and yet now you have to be well rounded still to keep your job and to keep that you know security in your job and it's not as easy as pie.

Daisy: Well, I think that the really important issue here is that your education is not just something you get from college that it's also an ongoing process whether that be in your job or in your life and I personally I hope to call myself a student until the day I die. I think the more you learn the less you realize you know and it just encourages you to continue that education and to learn more.

Vivian: And if you are a well developed person and you get along well with the people that around you and stuff you know as we were talking about earlier the street wise kind of person. You, you further yourself in the work place as well because if you look at people who aren't so you know don't get along so well with people around them then you can succeed as far just because you're talented.

Bow: But to reiterate what Daisy was saying is that um... I want to make this point. You don't necessarily have to go to college to get an education. And I will give you another example that when I was living in Korea I had decided to stop living in Korea and go to graduate school. And the reason was because I believed all that stuff like you have to educate yourself you have to go to institution. So I went to the graduate school that I was going to apply to it was an art school and I met some of the students in there and they were so colorless and I thought they would be so great because they are artists and stuff but they were all kind of they had the same kind of M.O. as just like any kind of student. Whereas the people that I meet here in Korea are so much more colorful and I learn so much more from them and like or other people like that come here from different countries of the world I learn so much more than having that paper.

Vivian: Well you know you gotta think that being in a foreign country and you have so many people from different lands come here. Those people that came here they're not run of the mill kind of people.., they're.., first they gotta have guts to go somewhere else and they were interested in learning more and growing and developing within themselves.

Bow: Yes, I agree and also I thought. I'm not gonna to graduate school and I'm gonna make the world my class room. And another way would be this is good base to travel to other countries and learn about other cultures which I really haven't got the chance to do but again you can still do that without visually seeing that a little bit like vicariously through other people that do and go and have these experiences you know like people that were there they might think about going to Thailand but would they really know why would they have a lot details of like uh, why they would wanna go there or do they just wanna go to like cool beach and do drugs you know.

Daisy: Well you know I agree with everything both of you have just said but I also think an education cannot be replaced if you enter that institution or that education for the right reasons. I don't think the right reason are going for the job on the Wall street or the six figured salaries. But if you go into that institution and you're mentally prepared for what you're going to learn and you're using that information in a practical way not just in the theoretical way that society has told you should use it. Then I don't think there's anything that can replace that type of education.

Bow: We might all agree at that point. But then again like it still is the fact that people need that piece of paper to get on.

Vivian: Yeh reality bites.

Daisy: That's true. I think you do if you want to be in a profession that requires you to have a science degree or that requires you to have a degree in psychiatry or whatever of course it's necessary.

Vivian: Or you just can't get beyond the barrier there are still people who practice and who work in those field they may not have a piece of paper but most of time in general you need it.

Daisy: Right, but I specifically talking about professions like psychiatry. I mean you can.., because psychiatrist unless you have 7 year degree.

Vivian: Unless you're Dear Abby.

Bow: Also I think this is philosophy of the x-generation which is while I go bust my butt for 4 years and get my degree but now I'm gonna be a bartender because it's more fun and if I like lose my job.

Vivian: You still have security.

Bow: Yes. I just can go back and become a history teacher.

Daisy: I don't see anything bad with that though.

Bow: But I don't either.

Daisy: I don't see anything wrong with it.

Bow: No, I'm not saying it in negative way.

Vivian: It's a something insurance.

Daisy: No.

Bow: I am just stating the fact.

Daisy: I think so a bartender with university degree that has a broad knowledge of history or you know psychology would be a fascinating bartender. I'd go to that bar. He probably make a good living owning a bar and tending that bar. I don't see any problem with that.

Bow: The job bartender is derogatory.

Vivian: But any job.

Bow: Another job that is outside of your major.

Daisy: That's the thing I think that it doesn't matter what you study that education somewhere down the track is going to benefit you as long as you have approached that education with open mind and you've actually gained something from it.

Vivian: And also you don't have to necessarily have I mean after you have that piece of paper you are still educating yourself not necessarily by going to school but there are many people who educate themselves like I said my godfather to the States still educates himself and is always looking for a new you know.

Daisy: You know that's really important too, furthering your education and constantly wanting to get increase your knowledge but I also think that you know if we just approach our education in a different way without the capitalistic ideals behind it and thinking or encouraging your children to go to school for different reasons not because you have to win not because you have to be this or do that just for the reason that education was originally created by Greek philosophers you know to improve you as human being to grasp the higher faculties and get something from them.

Vivian: And maybe before we close since we talked about early education you know later on education life now and work. Maybe we should touch base before we end the conversation on you know education in your later years you know these days you hear a lot about people going back to get that piece of paper or you know still like I said my godfather still I mean he has had that piece of paper but still continuing to you know strive for more and higher education. Do you think you still be studying and maybe groping more knowledge?

Luke: I don't know if I'll be academically studying I might be I'd like to leave the option open. I wouldn't be I wouldn't feel ashamed or like I was going backwards by going back to school if it was something that interested me. but I just think that hopefully the kind of jobs I'll end up with will allow me to explore different avenues and to grow in different ways and to become more enlightened with different things and I mean that's kind of that's hopefully what it is... they say you know the best way to be successful and happy is to find something you really like and figure out a way to get paid for it and if you can do that that's pretty good.

Daisy: You know I definitely agree with everything you just said I hopefully I want to always be a student whether it be at an academic institution or student of life but I believe when I was last at college I took a few philosophy classes and I loved them and I think that's my next step, I'm gonna go back and I'm gonna get another degree in philosophy not for my job just because I love it and that is I think the essential reason for studying. If you love it and you are interested it then go and study it.

Vivian: Right. I definitely agree, I found that I am very satisfied oh I wanna learn this or these days I wanna take lessons doing this because it satisfies me not because it's going to get me higher up on that chain, It will eventually, It satisfies me and gives me some sort of personal gratification being able to learn another you know trade or learning more knowledge.

Luke: I think of a lot of employers when they are looking to hire someone the way that everyone these days is so over qualified for so many jobs. People have gone to school for so long and have learned so much about so many jobs about their fields and stuff so specialized. I think the really difference is the edge you'll get is this is being well rounded interesting person. I mean no one wants to work with someone whose the best and very intelligent and very hard working but has a lame personality and is a total deadbeat to hang out with, You work with your co-workers you wanna be to able to get along with them you wanna be stimulated by them you wanna be interested in them you have to work with the people,

Bow: I disagree kind of a little bit. Yes at some points I do agree depending on the job what if it's like NASA, I don't really want or like heart surgeon I don't want the guy joking around.

Luke: The majority of jobs I'm saying.

Bow: The lame jobs like accounting and stuff.

Daisy: I don't know a heart surgeon with a humorous personality.

Bow: Ok, Maybe like when he's not.,,

Vivian: Squeezing your heart,

Bow: Maybe outside or something.., Hey you want hear a joke. You got three days to live.

Daisy: Yeh with scalpel in your head.

Bow: Just kidding.

Luke: I mean how much of your time of course part of whole work thing and having a cohesion in any work environment is you do you work for a bit and you work well together but then you're not working when you get to kick back a bit can you have anything to talk about can you hang out it's cool can you go for some beers after a hard days' work. I am sure guys from NASA go out for beers after a hard days' work.

Daisy: That has to be in any working environment whether it be NASA or whether it be this studio here some kind of camaraderie between people. And you know that is something that life and living and relationships can only give you. So I think that you know in closing that an education is irreplaceable and it's very important but we have to look at the reasons why we are educating ourselves once again.

Vivian: Right.

Luke: And also try to foster in our own children and in our schools and in our teachers an attitude of not competition with another not by route appreciation and learning of things but an absorbing of things internalization of ideas and an ability to interact and cooperate with your peers throughout all stages of growth and throughout education because those are the values that are really those are the traits that really valued when you are in an actual job's situation and which will benefit everyone like all of humanity in the long run,

Vivian: Ok and also you know I think and foster other ways to educate them like don't make them lazy like we're talking about x-generation encourage them to have part time jobs while they're at school so that they learn other lessons as well.

Bow: Um and also I think that our views today I wanna say this to our listeners that you know our views have been really pretty much liberal. You know a lot of conservative views out there people will say no this is the right way and it really is up to you these are our opinions and uh, you know everyone has different opinions this group here just has more I think liberal opinions than other people.

Luke: Yes but if truth really be known. We're right.

Daisy: Amen.

Vivian: We hope.

Luke: We know it.

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                  1.《听说大突破》3册1.Jobs and EducationA面开始到14分20秒的语音文本
SIDE A

Today's subject is
jobs and education...
uh...
this is something
that any of us can relate to.

Vivian:

This is Viv.

Daisy:

Yes.
This is Daisy.
Definitely.
You know there's
no substitute
for a great education,
I think and you know
if you wanna get that job.
But then again,
you have to be
educating yourself
for the right reasons.
But I guess
we'll get into that
a little bit later so,
how about you,
Bow?

Bow:

Oh, yes..
.hey this is Bow.
That is short for Boseesis.
I have two things about the job
and education...
over to you Luke?

Luke:

I think a job
is an education
and I think education
is not something you do at school necessarily.
I think it's something you do f
or whole life
and you do it
wherever you are
whenever you are
whatever you are.

Vivian:

Well obviously,
they are both related
and we'll discuss
more about it.
Here we go.

Daisy:

Well,
you know school for me...
um...
back way
way
way back..,
a long time ago,
I really didn't enjoy it myself.
I didn't have good school experience.
How about you,
Bow?

Bow:

Oh!
Are you talking about
high school or college?

Daisy:

High school.

Bow:

Uh. High school..,
um...Well I really didn't
care much about studying...
I like to um...
have fun.
And they say like
in America,
it was the best years of your life.

Daisy:

Right.

Bow:

Well they weren't
really I suppose.

Daisy:

No, me neither.

Bow:

Because I fooled around
so much I got kicked out.

Vivian:

You got kicked out of
Catholic school?

Bow:

I didn't say Catholic school.
How did you know that?
Viv,
Yes I did.

Daisy:

For what?

Bow:

Um...
we have a demerit system
and if you get up to
20 demerits
they kick you out.
And they kind of just let me keep going
and I had 40.
Twice the amount
and they said we have to
make an example of you,
mister Bow
and they kicked me out.

Vivian:
So we're saying like what exactly
were the reasons you've got demerits,
you know,
like what kind of a...
you know...

Bow:

Let me see...
I got caught cheating..,
once that was 5 demerits
and then uh..
.I lit a fire in the pottery room
and that was..,
uh that was probably
the end of it right there..,
the fire thing.

Daisy:

Did you do it on purpose?

Bow:

Yes,
I did.
Because there was this piece of work
that I didn't really like
and I poured some glue in,
and lit it on fire
but then I tried to put it out with water
but then it kind of dispersed all over
the place
and I got in trouble.

Daisy:

So kind of you weren't planning
to be that big
but it just kind of got out of hand.

Bow:

Yeh it escalated.

Daisy:

How about you Luke?
How was your
school experiences?

Luke:

Similar experience.
It was more focused on...
on social life,
and recreational stuff
than actual studying.
I think that's
what a lot of
high school
and elementary school is
for people back home.
The only time
you really buckled down
when you get to university
just because you have to
because the course load
does increase.
But I never really yeh
I was never that freaked up by high school..,
anything I applied myself a bit more in college
and just goofed off got in trouble...
I used to sell fire crackers in my locker
and one time I taped one to a candle
and I tried to blow it out
and it exploded
and I got suspended
for a day for that,
and an other time
I threw a pie in the cafeteria across the room
I got in trouble
for that started a food fight.

Bow:

I used to throw books out of the window
of the library.
That's kind of similar.

Luke:

That's pretty bad.

Daisy:
I, I used to steal books
from library.

Luke:

Yeh.

Vivian:

Bad girl.

Luke:

Terrible.

Daisy:

How about you Viv?

Vivian:

Me. I was a such a good girl in school.
I used to look down upon all those girls
who used to gather in bathrooms
and smoke in the stalls
I was always early to school..,
and my PE teachers just loved me...
they just ate me up.
I swear.
I can call them and
I'd just open my mouth
and they were like
"Oh! Vivian,
you're such a good student"..
.yeh...
I kind of had it made in school
I guess.

Daisy:

Um,
did you
do well in school?

Vivian:

Oh yeh.
I was a straight A student.

Daisy:

And did you graduate
from high school
valedictorian?

Vivian:

No, not exactly.
Last 6 months at school
were so tragic
for me and my mom.
We just..,
you know...
I dropped out of school.
I just couldn't take it any more
being a perfect student.

Daisy:

The pressure..,
the pressure of
being straight A student?

Vivian:

I can it's just you wanna try different things
and after
just everything being handed to
you on a silver platter..,
you know
you just wanna do something different..,
and just one day
I just decided well I didn't wanna go to school
and I wanted to play hooky
and it's just it was so much
freedom all
at once I guess.

Bow:

That's kind of interesting.
The difference between
the Korean you were raised
sort of in
between a Korean educational system
and American style of education.
And one thing I noticed
about the Korean education system
is from the time you enter school
maybe pre-school
to the time
maybe to the end of high school,
this is the time where
we goofed off basically
applied ourselves
a minimal amount of effort
to get the grades
and get things done.
Whereas
that whole time
in Korea,
in the Korean society,
children are
being pushed to study
almost every minute they have.
They go to school
and they are pushed to study
they go to academic institutes to study,
they're often pushed
by their parents to have..,
to take piano lessons
or gymnastic lessons
or skating lessons
or any kind of lessons.
They never really have time
to just be kids
and goof off
and play
and stuff.
And then
when they hit university
it's almost like they regress
back into the childhood state of mind
and if you seen university classrooms
with the speaking
and chatting during class
leaning on each other
and cheating and just goofing off
and having a gay ol' time.
It's just so contrasted
to what an American university classroom
would look like
where everyone's attentive
and conscientiously studying
and giving their full attention
to the professor.

Bow:

Well,
that's the thing
if they're not
then they've kicked out.

Luke:

Exactly.

Vivian:

I definitely agree.
That's exactly
how the difference
in cultures is.
My mother being
Korean
and my father being
American.
My father was more submissive
in the relationships
so he kind of let my mother
take over the family.
But that's exactly
how she was and that's
why I felt so much stress
by the end of school
was because from the minute you are
in elementary school
she was pushing me to do everything perfectly
whereas everyone was just,
all the other kids
especially in elementary
or junior high you're just having fun.
I was pressured
you know
so much to get the grades
and make the grade.
Whereas after that then
she always told me
as soon as you are an adult
as soon as you're eighteen
you do whatever you
want but until then okay it doesn't matter,
no matter what as long as you graduate
after that you can do whatever you want because then
you're set you're made to go wherever.
But in the American culture my dad
was actually saying the opposite,
enjoy now and then
get into really good school
and then you'll really study
because that's what's gonna lead to a good job.
Totally the opposite.

Daisy:

Well, I think that
everybody it doesn't matter
what culture you are from
. Everybody is in
a different situation
with their family.
Some parents are just naturally pushy
and they want their children to do well
and some parents don't care.
But the Korean education system
and I think probably
a lot of other education systems
in Asia especially the Japanese one
seems to be quite unique
in the fact at that,
you know Luke was saying
there is so much pressure on these children
from a young age.
And I think that's absurd.
Basically children are sponges
and they can learn anything
they can absorb but
even if they learn it do they absorb it.
I think that they're just learning a parrot like
for want of a better word
and they're just taking in this information
remembering it
using it
in their practical way.
And not being able to apply
anything that they learned in theory
and there's too much of it too
too much to process.
I don't think they're able to process it
and even in universities
I had a friend
who was studying engineering
and he had this assignment
with an American professor was visiting
and the American professor said
go ahead and design
one of those big cranes
that you see on construction sites.
And he thought,
oh well,
I'm a fourth year student
I should know
how to do that
but he didn't.
So he went to a construction site
and asked the site manager
how would you design
one of them.
And the site manager said
who are you.
And he said
I'm a fourth year university student.
And he laughed at him and said,
"Go back to school,
you do that
when you get a real job.
" So there's no
practical implication of
anything they learn
in school or university.

Vivian:

And that brings us to a point where..,
and this is a kind of something
they've been focusing on recently
is the difference in education,
the methods of education that they practice
overseas and Asia versus Europe
or the western countries
which is in the classroom situation
the teachers encourage
students to respond even argue with the student
and debate
and test out their ideas
and theories in the classroom.
Whereas in Asian cultures
you don't wanna talk back to your teacher,
you want to pretty much say everything
you say is correct
because once you argue
or you were to say,
well, "What about this?"
Then that means
in the culture you're talking back to the teacher.
That's like that calls
for reprimanding
the child or the student.

Bow:

I think, um,
the reason
why the education system in Asia
is not good.
It's not just because
I grew up in different
kind of education system
but I think that if you look at it more
in a general sense of child development
during those years
if you're giving a child stress.
Of course that's going to
affect them later on in their life
whereas kids are just designed
so to speak to,
to be curious about and find out things
by themselves and like ah..
. have fun as they grow up and develop.
And I think like
people that have a lot of stress
when they are children
it doesn't have to do with their education
but maybe from divorce or,
you know,
some other kind of traumatic event
in their lives does affect them later on socially.
And I think that's
where college and being more strict
in the western world is a good remedy for that. That's
because
I think that's where
people really kind of develop themselves.

Vivian:

Right. I definitely agree.
Because in the Korean culture
or in many other Asian cultures as well
after so much you know ten years of strict educational..,
you know..,
pressures from the parents
and teachers in school
you all of sudden have freedom once you go to college here
in Korea.
Whereas in a western culture,
you're given all this freedom
at a younger age
to explore your ideas,
go out and do things experiment
with your friends and whatnot...
but then in the college it's not because of the pressures
you get from your parents
but then you kind of mentally develop yourself and..,
you want to...
you have to live on your own,
you have to go to school,
you know,
you're responsible for many things
away from your parents,
and so you just kind of naturally hone in on your,
you know,
you become an adult.
You're more mature
whereas here you..,
you break free all of a sudden and
you actually getting really immature.

Luke:

I think that comes down to you're taught
in the western society
to think for yourself.
You're taught to be
independent a little bit more.
You're given..,
there's a little more
you have more control over your free time
but you are made to understand the consequences
if you don't use some of that free time
to study or to do these things.

Bow: Yes, exactly.

Luke: You value your free time more because of that.

Bow:

And I'll give you an example of that exactly you do
get a sense of freedom from your parents
when you go to school in America
but this is exactly right.
What happened to me was that
in freshman year
they load you down like seven courses
in architecture right?
So you have a really tight schedule
but the first year of college you're away
from your parents
so you can get away with murder
. So that's
what we do we drink every night on weekdays
and then we like skip classes and stuff
and then all of sudden you get a notice from the dean that says
you're grade point average is below two.
You know and if it continues this way
you're gonna get kicked out
so then we say to ourselves well
we kind of want this freedom to continue i
f we get kicked out.
We're gonna have to move back in with our parents.
So then we kind of buckle down a little bit
but as you go through college more and more
you start to actually learn things that you like...
like you're learning things
that are interesting
and when you're in elementary school
and in high school learning about like Math
and stuff and they are just force feeding you this stuff
you don't naturally wanna learn it.

Vivian:

Ye! You have curriculum
that you have to take.

Daisy:

Um... one of the interesting things is
you know I grew up in Australia.
The Australian education system
is different again
from the American system.

Bow:

What is it actually?

Daisy:

The Australian education system?
(Bow: I don't know) ..
.well in America
your focus is basically
still on the three R's right?
reading,
writing,
and arithmetic.
Well it's a little bit different
in Australia up until grade eleven
you can...uh...
you must study Math
and English.
The only compulsory subject
when you graduate is English
you don't have to do Math.
And you the,
choices that you have to pick
you can basically design your own syllabus in high school,
um, which I think is fantastic idea.
And there are subjects ranging from
art to metal working,
wood working,
photography,
um music,
dance,
sports.
It's, uh,
there are so many different
curriculum to choose from that
anyone can basically succeed
and get enough points to get into university
if they want to.

分拆文本：

2..、《听说大突破》3册1.Jobs and EducationA面14分20秒到结束的语音文本

Bow:

But you have,
have a core group
of courses
that you have to take too
I mean you have electives
a certain number of core courses
that are mandatory...

Daisy:

Right,
but in the core groups
you have English you don't .
.. math is not..,
you know
a prequisite for college unless
you got you need it
for the course you're gonna study in college.
But the core groups
would be the sciences,
history and English as compulsory,
that's the only one
that is compulsory.
But in those core groups there
are several different things to study,
the sciences they can range
from anything from biology.
I think there's natural sciences
which is just a study of
basically the environment
and current events
and things like that.
But I think that is good idea,
and the reason being
because all children
and all people are not designed
for the three R's
if you're just raising
students and
I think it definitely has things to do
with economic groups, too.
Children that grew up in..
.in privileged families have been learning
to read and write even
before they got into kindergarten
but some kid from the ghetto
is already ten paces behind
a privileged child.
But, he might be an extremely talented
photographer or artist.
I think that we need to
gear our curriculum in schools
around that to um,
be targeted
all children not one group of children.
And that way
everybody has an opportunity to succeed.

Vivian:

Well I agree.
I guess it depends upon
which school that you're going to
but when I went to school
in Georgia it was
a very restricted curriculum that
we all had to attend.
But then I changed to
international school
and it was similar
to the system that you're describing now.
Whereas we had to take everything
which is one elective um...
when I went to the international school
they had a curriculum
very much similar to
what you have just described.
You had to take certain,
you had to take certain classes
but they had 6-7 different
what do you say?
Venuses of that
for example science like
you mentioned you can
study natural sciences,
or you can study biology
and whatnot.
In the other schools take each one as you
went up one grade
but here you get to choose
which one you want to study
and you can choose
and study it until you graduate.
And the remainder of your classes..
.similar..,
the same thing
even history you could
study just contemporary
or current history
or you know about...

Daisy:

Well my major was English Literature
and obviously
for English Literature
you don't need math.
And I did very well in school
and but if I had have taken math
when I graduated from school.
I wouldn't have got into the university
that I did get into.
And I also wouldn't have got the grades
and that one grade in my final
what is equivalent of the SATs ain the states
that one grade
for math would have brought me down
probably an average maybe about 15 marks...

Vivian:

Right. Eventually it brings down
your grade point average
because it's not what you are,
you know talented in...
honed on in.

Bow:

Yeh but I think in
other aspects of life
you need math.
People use even though like
people in my university
were always like
I hate calculus
why the hell..,
why am I taking calculus
. I'm never gonna use it again
but it turns out..,
they've proven that people
use calculus everyday
just not in the form of in numbers
and stuff like that.

Daisy:

But I took it
for in eleven years,
you know,
it was just last year that I graduated
so it wouldn't affect my grade
to get into university I didn't take it.
So I already had eleven years
of training in it,
So I think that's fair enough.

Luke:

It teaches...
I think it teaches students
to be well rounded
because that's the reality of the work force.
If you're going to
like if you think of the people you knew
who went to college
or studied something in high school
with this thing in mind
like I studied anthropology.
I did not become an anthropologist.
I didn't end up digging
for bones or anything.
Bow studied architecture
but he didn't go on to study architecture.
But the thing is we found work
in different things,
the thing is you the thing you study
is not always the thing you end up doing.

Daisy:

Sure.

Luke:

But it might if you have variety of things you're learning,
and you're learning
how to manage your time
and learning about different interests
you have and stuff
and if you'd just to be
versatile
then you have a dynamic education
and then you sort of go
in what ever directions
you're able to take things
that are offered to you.

Bow:

But you say that you don't apply,
you don't actually apply like
the skills that you learn
if you don't work as like.
For example
I don't work as architect
but I do apply the education
that I received
from there like I do
go to other countries
and notice things
architecturally that
stimulate my intellect
because I had the chance to learn that.
I think that just because
I'm not making money from
what I studied.
I think that's not really a big issue.

Daisy:

No, I don't think it's an issue at all.
And I think that is probably
the main problem
I have in all countries with um,
tertiary education.
When you go to college um...
when I remember
I took a class
in college
and the teacher asked
why are you in this class.
And every student answered
well, I'm taking,
you know,
taking business,
this is like part of the general requirements
so I have to take it.
Yeah, I wanna six figure salary
or whatever
and my answer was well
I took it to get an education
and there was another girl
who had similar answer.
And he said the only two
who answered correctly
were me and the other girl.
The reason being
is that education
was never really
put in place
for you to get six figure salary.
It was there to,
you know,
to improve
or stimulate the higher faculties
to make you an intelligent person
to have an understanding of life
and give you life experience,
too.

Bow:

Exactly,
the point that I like to...
an example that I'd like to
make is at MIT
they don't have
the grading system
like A, B, C or D or F,
it's P or F,
it's pass or fail.
Which I think is good
because it's getting you to
it's gearing you toward real life,
because in real life that's what it is.
It's either you succeed or you don't.
And it's not you kinda do
you get a C you pass to
the next level..,
so I think actually
I think a
ll higher learning institutions
should have that kind of grading system.

Luke:

But if there,
if they're only there to get you real job.
I mean
if we're saying that the reason to, to educate, educate yourself.., is to... is to get a broader understanding of the world around you
and to teach you to be a better person.
Then I think you should just learn
like you're probably working through school anyway.
You're gonna learn
that if you don't cut the mustard
you're not going have the job.
But the shcooling thing I think,
Yah, ok you weren't so strong in this..,
you were strong in this..,
you apply yourself it's gotta be motivated more
by a personal conviction
to learn that stuff.
If you want to go just to get a job
then you should probably
just get a skill or something get a trade
or something like that.

Daisy:

Vocational school.

Luke:

Yeh...exactly.
But there's nothing wrong with that either
. I mean it's useless. Yeh...

Bow:

MIT is a high level vocational school.

Vivian:

Sure I agree,
that kind of education almost requires something like that
but then when you're just about to enter um.
..college and you're a junior
or senior
don't you think that it kind of requires
and I would want this
for my own children,
yeah,
a grade,
why?
because you want the competition
you want the competitiveness
you want your child to feel like
I want to beat this person next to me.
I want to do better
I wanna get
one on top of him.

Vivian:

I don't know...
you know...

Luke:

Maybe in business school.

Daisy:

Sure I mean two different minds
about that. I think that natural.,,
a little bit of natural competitiveness
is good but
in high school um...
I was the youngest of six children
and my older..,
older 5 brothers and sisters
were incredibly successful.
So even though my parents weren't pushing me I felt
constantly
that I had to achieve
and I became
like not, I'm not even just talking about grades here
but an overachiever I had to do everything.
I had to
enter every competition.
I had to come out
and I had to be the school president
because my sister
was and my brother was.
And I felt this competition all the time
and eventually
it worked against me.
I was in Australia we call it
"the tall puppy syndrome"
and if you get too big
they'll cut you down.
And...um..
.I lost a lot of friends
because people thought that
I was a big head and
because I always had to enter everything
and I was doing it
for some other reason
to satisfy my family
but in those situations
I think competition can work against you.

Vivian:

But many kids...
students
want to do it themselves
because they want to.
They want..
.I did it because I wanted to,
I wanted to be on top of my class.

Bow:

But there's the difference
between competing
with your class mates.
.. to see if you can out do them
and sort of pushing yourself
and competing with yourself
and seeing
if you can push can strive
to do these things.
I think that's the big problem
with the work force these days
and with the education system
is also that idea of
competition instead of
cooperation shouldn't be people
be learning how to work
with each other in productive ways
instead of trying to outdo each other.
That's... that's..,
unproductive.

Vivian:

But then society has changed the educational system
so that you do have to compete
with other kids. Why?
Because there's hundred colleges out there
and they're all ranked
from one to one hundred
and sure they're all good
and as long as you get an education.
Hey good to go,
and you're always gonna get a job.
But
the fact of the matter is society um..
.makes this..,
you know
unseen kind of scale
where they say
what you went to your community college.
I don't know
I'd rather pick this dude
from MIT or Harvard
because he went to a you know 5 star school.
So, even though you may be smarter
and you may have more qualifications,
I'd rather pick this student
from bigger named school.

Luke:

You know where,
you know where
actually the paradox in that is
that especially in America
. People they are striving to
get like um high salaries
and whatnot and
people that get into the better schools
tend to get higher salaries.
But what they consider to be
successful is making a lot of money
. And people who have..,
the most millionaires
in America
are high school drop outs
or haven't even entered high school.
It was because they learned probably social skills
early on.
You know
and they had to survive
I guess somehow
and I mean
they're exceptional kids.

Vivian:

You know the big point is...
(Bow: Right.
We dropped out from Harvard.)
you know the big point that
I always like to make is.
I kind of see like
two it's mainly divided
into two different groups..,
and it's making both
point exactly
but when you look at people in general.
There is two different
types of people.
There's academically smart people
and then there's people that are
I guess you would put it
(Daisy: common sense)
right, "street wise"
or whatnot
but these people
they are smart..,
they've got what it takes
but they may not further their education
as far as they want to.
And then there's ones in the middle that
go ahead and take it to
next level
and they may achieve most probably.
But the people that are
book smart
and academically successful
may not it get as far as people
that aren't even educated at all.

Daisy:

Well, you know,
I look it I think
that generally schools
and society is just too competitive
. And parents are pushing their kids
exactly what you were saying
you've got into this top school
because it's number one
and you're not gonna
have your own law practice,
you're not gonna be made an associate,
you're not gonna be a neurosurgeon
if you don't get into this school..,
and the thing is there's
an enormous amount of pressure
on these children.
I think that it's too much
to take for most kids at that age
and the other thing is maybe some of them are
not that smart
and they can't take the medical degree
or law degree.
(Vivian: they're not cut out for it)
Yeah, we have to realize there's nothing wrong with
some guy who
did fairly well in school
but he pushed himself
to be the best he could be
but he ended up being..
. I don't know in the army
or ended up running a video shop.
But he's doing well a
nd he's making a bit of money
he's doing what he enjoys.
We put too much thing on this,
you know,
you've got to make this much money,
you've got to have this status in society.

Vivian:

There are people that
are satisfied
in the sector that they're in
and earning the amount that they are earning
and living the life that they are
they are maybe people that are raised from,
you know,
filthy rich families
that may be happy just,
you know,
working in an art studio creating their own,
you know,
pieces of art.
Whereas someone
from the streets wants
a high education
and wants to come
out of the best schools
so that they can you know
do the best they can.

Bow:

People respond
to different ways of learning too,
some people learn from experience
thing from a hands on thing,
some people learn
from visual things,
some people learn
from listening to things,
some people learn
from reading.

Vivian:

But the little kids' point was
father mother why can't you
accept the fact that
I am trying my best
and I'm gonna try to
(Daisy: And this is my best)
right, and continue trying my best
but this is probably,
you know,
it's not saying hey you're dumb
or anything...
but this is just as far as he goes
and maybe it's time to look elsewhere
or just be satisfied
with what he is doing.

Daisy:

This is what I can do for you
and I think that's the problem
his parents and society
is just putting
way too much pressure on people.
Even my father
you know I my entire high school
even from elementary school
I took music classes
and I want to be a musician.
And I even had an invitation
for an audition
at the Conservatorium of music
which is like a once
in a lifetime of opportunity.
It doesn't happen
to a lot of people
but my father said
"No way,
you're going to university
you're gonna study economics"
and I ended up doing that
because I felt pressured by him
stayed there for a year
and a half
and bombed out completely
and it took me five years
to go back to university
and do what I was interested
in which happened to be English Literature.
But I was pressured into doing that
and I failed
because I was not happy.
And I think inevitably
all of these children
are going to fail
or grow up with incredible complexes
that their parents
have given them.
They're not going to be healthy.

分拆文本：
         
      3.第3册1.Jobs and Education B面29分20秒到43分12.5秒语音文本

三册1B
------
SIDE B
------

Vivian:nnhyhyhhhhh

Why not put the same standards
on children as we do on ourselves
you know everyone always says
"Hey, so, are you happy?"
No I got this terrible job,
I'm stressed out,
I never get any sleep I don't enjoy life etcetera,
etcetera.
But then doesn't that apply for children as well,
I mean if you're not satisfied with your job
but you're making lots of money
but you're still not happy right.
And people always say hey you got to do something
that you like to do
that way you Can do it for the rest of your life.
It's the same with children hey
education is long term as well,
you know,
you're going for
what preschool all the way to,
you know,
after that even more for some people
they got eight more
or twelve more years
even after high school...

Bow:

Sure hopefully
it's a lifelong,
lifelong thing...
education.

Vivian:

No, you know I have a godfather,
excuse me,
godfather
who still educates himself.
He is...in his sixties now early sixties
he's the most intelligent person that I have ever met.
He educates himself on a daily basis
you know he still goes to school
he still reads books
and newspapers
and he's always trying to get
a higher education
always trying to,
you know,
kind of pick at my brain even
with stimulating conversations.

Luke:

I think the thing is people the thing about jobs
that's so weird about back home is
that people define themselves so much
by their jobs not by who they are..,
that's why you have these people
who were like well I happen
to work for this company
or whatever
and it's like oh what's your position
and a big drawing point
for a lot of people
if they are trying to get someone...
hire someone for a job..,
highly qualified person
it's the title that they're giving you
will be the executive co...
junior executive in charge
of marketing...
it's a long title that's ridiculous.
It's just a name
but it gives the people the feeling of status
and it's like this kind of pay off
for everything you've done and everything
and it's just it's bizarre.
I think it's like..,
the first question you get asked back home is
so what do you do
and that's basically it and people can sort of decide
based on that
if you're worth talking to.

Daisy:

Exactly, yeah,
that really annoys me I have a problem
with that.

Bow:

I think it's actually more here in Asia
the status thing where
once you enter certain status you can't leave it.
I mean..,
in the States you can move
between titles here once you are stamped with a title
and status that's pretty much it for you and you really
can't move into other circles.
For example
I have a friend
who was he studied architecture
and art at the same time and
he came to Korea and he teaches architecture
and he taught architecture
through painting.
And it was a very interesting way
to visualize architecture
in a two dimensional medium.
And they didn't accept him here
and they didn't accept him as...
he was..,
he had to be either one or the other he had
to be either an artist
or an architect he couldn't be both.
And I think that's kind of that limits a lot of people once
they finish their higher education
and move into certain jobs.

Luke:

I think that's
a Korean thing, too.
I think there isn't less competition
within companies.
There's sort of an understanding
once you work
at this company
you're part of the family,
I work for this company
or for this company
and everybody knows their place
and it sort of there is more of a team
a bit of co-operative spirit.
There's not as much room
for the advancement
and there's not as much
drive to really to
really work hard.

Vivian:

Well the reason being is
because eventually you're gonna get up there
but you always have to start from the bottom
and even if you come from great college
or university
you start from a certain position
that they have a name for.
And then after two years
you without exception
unless you really were
bad apple you go
to the next level and so
eventually after twenty years you gonna hit
that top you know.., to see.

Luke:

How does it work?
Everybody seems to be doing that
but their salary
is like maybe on average one million
and six hundred
or seven hundred a month.
But they say the living standard now
people need
like 3 million
at least
with a kid and a wife
how do they?

Daisy:

Bonuses...
they get bonuses.

Luke:

Still it's not gonna make it 3 million a month.

Vivian:

No, no, no, no..
. the bonus is actually
a lot of the times
more than your salary that's
what it is you get
the bonuses
the big bonus
every couple of months
or how many times a year
that are actually many times more than the...
And it depends on what projects you may be
doing you get another promotion then.

Luke:

But then and like America the key to getting the bonuses
or stuff is not to like
get out there shake things up
and see what you want to do
better than everyone else.
It's make way don't make
waves just be quiet be patient
and things will pay off for you.

Vivian:

How about going back to things
that we are talking with Korean society
versus the American work force?
What do you think about this?
I notice that in Korea
many people go to university
and pick a subject that they're going to study a major
or whatever.
For example
I know people
who choose I'm...
I majored in architecture
for example
and so what do you do now
what company do you work at now
obviously expecting him to say
I work in such and such architectural company
or whatever
but Iow and behold he says
I work in English education or,
you know,
something almost the opposite
of what they majored in.
I don't understand
how that is possible
but here it is.

Bow:

I'll take that on.

Vivian:

Ok.

Bow:

I think actually that
is what is happening
with so called x-generation
in America
and I read this article
about this kid he had
graduated high school
with like uh...
history major or something.
And he was sitting in a hot tub
and his apartment was,
you know,
like a thousand dollars a month apartment
or whatever.
And he was complaining that he couldn't find..
.he couldn't find a job in his major.
And the thing is why they call him
the x-generation
is another thing all together
the x-generation
they complain about things like that
so they end up working,
at you know coffee shops
or whatever
they can because
but they are not trying as hard as
their parents
who were the baby boomers
who did most of them if they studied architecture
or history.
They went into those kind of jobs
for the reason
that they wanted their
kids to have better life.

Vivian:

So your point is the reason
why people these days are
running off to other fields
is because they don't
want to try on their own?

Bow:

Because they don't
have the same reasons as their parents did
or those baby boomers kids befor
e you know..
.and uh yeh...I
think it's all over the world these days
it's just like,
I think kids are becoming...

Daisy:

Lazy?

Bow:

Yeh... they're not like
I think everyone has a gift..,
they're not like a lot of people..
.yeh...they are not even trying.
They just like gave up on society
they gave up themselves
and this is what
everybody else is doing so
that's what I'm gonna do...
um...in Korea
I know that
people will choose majors because
other people are doing it.
It's popular
that's not necessarily
a bad thing to not
work in your major.
It's just like oh you have education on this.
l knew a guy
whose major was French...
so I was like
"Do you speak French?"
"No," "What do you do?",
"I work for,
you know,
a company."
OK. Great.

Vivian:

Because in the American society..
.it's either one or two things
first ok this job is
very popular it's going to be...
when I was about
to graduate all the teachers were
pushing us everyone
if you haven't decided
you should seriously consider
computers
and computer science,
computer programming everyone
you know..,
the salaries gonna be up
and be one hundred plus
and you know
and that's what they're encouraging
or if you have a talent...
I had one of my best friends
was a genius and,
you know,
artistically another one played,
you know,
the sax like
you know you've never heard.
And so if you had a specific talent
they say go toward that,
you know,
go to Julliard
or whatever
or they try to tell you
these are gonna be the fields that
are going to be
there's gonna be
lots of jobs available or
the salaries are going be really big
in four years when you graduate.

Bow:

I give you more specific detail about
of my own decision
when I was going to college
or applying for colleges.
I like drawing
and I like designing things
so I just thought
and Luke had a valid point about
the status thing in America
and when you're in high school
you look at all those factors
and architects sounds pretty good,
you know,
it's a status position
and I do like
doing the stuff then
once I started getting into it...um.
..I really like the design
classes and things like that the other stuff
I didn't really get into
and urn...
(Luke: You like the creative aspects)
I like the creative aspects
but I learned that
it's not just that
in architecture
you can't just be the designer
you got to be the business man
and you gotta be a mathematician
you gotta be an engineer
you gotta be all these things.
I didn't wanna do any of that
even though like
I put myself into this position that
well I'm just go ahead and do it.
So I got jobs in architecture
and some of them I liked
but then
some of them I just realized
there's gotta be
another way
to fulfill
I mean
I can still use my education
just not as
what people think an architect is.
I don't want to be a number
in company
and I don't wanna be drawing
other peoples' designs
for the rest of my life.

Daisy:
You're looking for
the personal satisfaction.

Bow:

Yeah. And I think that's
why I am in that situation
or I didn't take a job in my major.

Daisy:

So you slowly strayed from
what you thought would be...

Luke:

Not necessarily...yeh.
..I mean
in what society thinks that
you are supposed to do
you have to be the architect.
He is an architect.
I mean
I still consider myself
an architect
even though i'm not working
in the architectural office.

Vivian:

You know
I did the same thing.
I mean I wanted to be a musician
and my father made me go to university
and study economics
which I just knew
from the first day
I didn't wanna do.
Then I eventually went back to university
and studied English Literature.
Everybody was asking me
like why are you studying this,
why aren't you doing anything else well I had
a musical education since I was young
and that's what my job is now
but I chose it
because one I wanted that uh...
stimulation
that you get from
tertiary education
and I wanted to know things
I wanted to understand
literature
and to have better understanding
of the world
and society
and I think that it did definitely
improve my understanding of those things.
But everything is
interconnected
what Bow was saying about
his architectural degree
and the way he now applies it
in his life.
For me
my education in English Literature has helped me write
better lyrics helped me understand lyrics
has helped me
love reading which is,
you know,
the best education you ever gotta get is
picking up a book and reading it.
And I think that
perhaps the x-generation
what you were talking about..,
may be they have
become lazy
because I think kids are much more privileged
now than
they were 20 years ago.
But maybe it's also
because these kids went to university
and picked a major
like history
or science
or something like that.
And they know they don't wanna be
a history high school teacher
or you know
a scientist in some factory punting numbers
on a computer.
Maybe they are looking
for some more personal
satisfaction in their lives.
I think that if that is true
and they are holding out and finding something
that's gonna make them happy
that's good.
If they're finding something
that's gonna pay them fix figures
that's not good.
I hope
that people are looking
for personal satisfaction.

Luke:

I think there's a lot of
disenchantment with..,
with that whole
for our parents were alright
You know you getta a job
you getta a stable life
that's how they that's
how they were raised
that's what they knew
for people.
.. there is a bit of a line
between people our age.
There's the get out there and
go getters that are always
so chipper and just wanna they are
always motivated,
they are always happy
and they just wanna get to the top
everyday is sunny day.
Yeh...and then they're are other people
who are just like
there is other things to life
than just like
climbing the corporate ladder then
, you know,
until you forty and then,
you know,
divorcing your wife
getting a sports car
blowing your brains out
or something.

Vivian:

I know another point that can be made
if you look at Korean culture too.
You see
in general
not necessarily
because of education
but these families
with children that
stay with the family way
beyond the years
that we would stay
with our family.
I was..,
everyone always says
you know
even 5 years ago,
"Why are you so young
and living alone?"
they think
I was disgraced
by my family or
for some reason,
hey
you turn eighteen you're out
of the house...
in early foreign society
you're a bum..,
you're literally a bum
and eating off your parents
you know.

Daisy:

If you still living
with your parents.

Vivian:

Yeh, you're disgraced from the neighborhood t
hey always say
hey so and so's
kids still in the house
and they are 20-something
but the culture's
different yes
I understand.
But I was just thinking
another aspect to that is recently in the news
if you've been listening you
hear about all these universities
turning in these figures where
they have so many students
but nobody in the classroom
reason being
one,
because these kids don't
want to get out
there they don't know
what to do once they get out
there and second,
well there's a lack of job
because no one's filling in,
you know
the jobs there's not enough jobs
for them after they graduate so
they instead of staying five or six years
they take off a year,
and then come back
for 6 months and
then they take off another year
because they try to extend that
um
that eventual,
you know
gotta get out
in the society thing.

分拆文本：

      4.  第3册1.Jobs and EducationB面43分12.5秒到58分18秒结束的语音文本

Luke:

But another thing
is you gotta realize that
as time goes on you're not
just static entity,
you know,
if you structure education
out over time like
the way
I was thinking
and the person
I was
when I first started university
(Vivian: it changes)
it's totally I'm totally different person
and can I qualify a person,
can I qualify the person
that I was seven years ago
to make all the decisions
for what I'm going to do
for rest of my life.
I was,
I was a bonehead back
then I'm still not much better now
but
I wouldn't trust the person
I was then to make the decisions
for who I am today.

Vivian:

Even the person you are
in one year
you change dramatically
and then
7 years think about it.
(Luke: sure)
and for me even
when I first went
into school again
it was just like
I was just living a totally different life
than everyone else my age
that school was not for me
at that time,
you know,
it was everyone was
experiencing freedom and
having the time away
from their parents
for the first time partying every night.
I was partying too but
I also had
a full time job
(Luke: different responsibility)
exactly,
I just had different ambitions
it was so much different from
my fellow,
you know,
classmates so
it just was not right for me
at that time.
I did want the education
but it just seemed like that
I would be pushed backward almost
being influenced
by the people
that were next to me
and I was just thinking
I think I wanna come back
after I have matured
a little more myself,
second,
when I have more clear grasp of
what I wanna study and
that I do want to study
and I maybe then
I would be able to concentrate
a bit more on my studies.
I knew
then already that I wanted to study seriously
and not be parting every night
and studying in the day time.
I wanted to
just study and work.

Luke:

Even if you know
what you want to study
at a certain time.
(Vivian: It changes)
the reality and
so does the technology
and the work force
and what's available out there
and things move so fast these
days that there's no such things as job as security as
our parents knew
or whatever.
So the bottom line is,
yeh, to be taught the most valuable thing
you can get from any school education
is how to be well rounded
and how to be able to move
and adapt
and how to just have a
whole bunch of different strengths
and be able to change
at will whenever
something changes
in the work force
or in what job's demand.

Vivian:

So virtually like anything else in life
education is another
complicated thing
because
you can't do one
and not complete the other.
I mean
we were just talking about earlier
how you want to
find peace with yourself
so you can go
after the topic
or the majo
r that you want to study in school
and what will make you happy
and yet now you have to be
well rounded still
to keep your job
and to keep that
you know security
in your job
and it's not as easy as pie.

Daisy:

Well,
I think that
the really important issue here is that
your education is not just something
you get from college
that it's also an ongoing process
whether that be in your job
or in your life
and I personally
I hope to call myself a student
until the day I die.
I think the more you learn
the less you realize
you know
and it just encourages
you to continue that education
and to learn more.

Vivian:

And if you are
a well developed person
and you get along
well with the people
that around you and stuff
you know as we were talking about
earlier the street wise kind of person.
You, you further yourself
in the work place as well
because if you look at people
who aren't so you know
don't get along so well
with people around them
then you can succeed as far
just because you're talented.

Bow:

But to reiterate
what Daisy was saying
is that um...
I want to make this point.
You don't necessarily
have to go to college
to get an education.
And I will give you another example
that when I was living in Korea
I had decided to
stop living in Korea
and go to graduate school.
And the reason was because
I believed all that stuff like you
have to educate yourself
you have to go to institution.
So I went to the graduate school
that I was going to apply to
it was an art school
and I met some of the students in there
and they were so colorless
and I thought they would be
so great because they are artists
and stuff
but they were all kind of they had the
same kind of M.O. as
just like any kind of student.
Whereas the people that I meet here in Korea
are so much more colorful
and I learn so much more from them and like
or other people like that come here
from different countries of the world
I learn so much more than
having that paper.

Vivian:

Well you know you gotta think that
being in a foreign country
and you have so many people
from different lands come here.
Those people that came here
they're not run of the mill kind of people..,
they're..,
first they gotta have guts to go somewhere else
and they were interested
in learning more
and growing and developing
within themselves.

Bow:

Yes, I agree and also
I thought.
I'm not gonna to graduate school
and I'm gonna make the world
my class room.
And another way would be
this is good base to travel to
other countries and learn about
other cultures
which I really haven't got the chance to do
but again you can still do that
without visually seeing that
a little bit like vicariously through other people
that do and go and have these experiences
you know like people
that were there they might
think about going to Thailand
but would they really know
why would they have a lot details of like uh,
why they would wanna go there
or do they just wanna go to like cool
beach and do drugs you know.

Daisy:

Well you know
I agree with everything
both of you have just said
but I also think an education
cannot be replaced
if you enter
that institution
or that education
for the right reasons.
I don't think the right reason
are going for the job
on the Wall street
or the six figured salaries.
But if you go into that
institution
and you're mentally prepared
for what you're going to learn
and you're using that information
in a practical way
not just in the theoretical way
that society has told you
should use it.
Then I don't think there's anything
that can
replace
that type of education.

Bow:

We might all agree
at that point.
But then again
like it still is
the fact that people
need that piece of paper to get on.

Vivian:

Yeh reality bites.

Daisy:

That's true.
I think you do if you want to be in a profession that requires
you to have a science degree
or that requires you
to have a degree in psychiatry
or whatever of course it's necessary.

Vivian:

Or you just can't get beyond
the barrier there are still people
who practice and
who work in those field they may not have a piece of paper
but most of time in general you need it.

Daisy:

Right, but I specifically talking about
professions like psychiatry.
I mean you can..,
because psychiatrist unless you have 7 year degree.

Vivian:

Unless you're Dear Abby.

Bow:

Also I think this is philosophy
of the x-generation
which is
while I go bust my butt for 4 years
and get my degree
but now I'm gonna be a bartender
because it's more fun and if I like lose my job.

Vivian:

You still have security.

Bow:

Yes. I just can go back and become a history teacher.

Daisy:

I don't see anything bad with that though.

Bow:

But I don't either.

Daisy:

I don't see anything wrong with it.

Bow

: No, I'm not saying it in negative way.

Vivian:

It's a something insurance.

Daisy:

No.

Bow:

I am just stating the fact.

Daisy:

I think so a bartender with university degree
that has a broad knowledge of history or
you know psychology would be a fascinating bartender.
I'd go to that bar. He probably make a good living owning a bar
and tending that bar. I don't see any problem with that.

Bow:

The job bartender is derogatory.

Vivian:

But any job.

Bow:

Another job that is outside of your major.

Daisy:

That's the thing I think that it doesn't matter
what you study
that education somewhere down the track
is going to benefit you as long as you have approached that education
with open mind
and you've actually gained something from it.

Vivian:
And also you don't have to necessarily have
I mean after you have that piece of paper you are still educating yourself
not necessarily
by going to school
but there are many people
who educate themselves like I said
my godfather to the States still educates himself and is always looking for a new you know.

Daisy:

You know that's really important too,
furthering your education and
constantly wanting to get increase your knowledge
but I also think that you know
if we just approach our education in a different way
without the capitalistic ideals behind it and thinking or encouraging your children to go to school for different reasons not
because you have to win
not because you have to be this
or do that just for the reason that education was
originally created by Greek philosophers
you know to improve
you as human being
to grasp the higher faculties
and get something from them.

Vivian:

And maybe before we close since we talked about
early education
you know later on education
life now and work
. Maybe we should touch base before
we end the conversation on
you know education in your later years you know these days you hear a lot about people
going back to get that piece of paper
or you know still
like I said my godfather still I mean he has had that piece of paper but still continuing to
you know strive
for more and higher education.
Do you think you still be studying
and maybe groping more knowledge?

Luke:

I don't know if I'll be
academically studying
I might be
I'd like to leave the option open.
I wouldn't be
I wouldn't feel ashamed
or like I was going backwards
by going back to school
if it was something that interested me.
but I just think
that hopefully the kind of jobs
I'll end up with will allow me to
explore different avenues
and to grow in different ways
and to become more enlightened with different things
and I mean that's kind of that's hopefully what it is..
. they say you know the best way to be successful
and happy
is to find something you really like
and figure out a way to get paid for
it and if you can do that that's pretty good.

Daisy:

You know I definitely agree with everything you just said
I hopefully
I want to always be a student
whether it be
at an academic institution
or student of life
but I believe
when I was last at college
I took a few philosophy classes
and I loved them
and I think that's my next step,
I'm gonna go
back and I'm gonna get another degree
in philosophy
not for my job
just because I love it
and that is I think the essential reason
for studying.
If you love it and you are interested
it then go and study it.

Vivian:

Right. I definitely agree,
I found that I am very satisfied
oh I wanna learn this or these days
I wanna take lessons doing this
because it satisfies me
not because it's going to get me higher up
on that chain,
It will eventually,
It satisfies me and gives me some sort of personal
gratification being able to
learn another you know trade
or learning more knowledge.

Luke:

I think of a lot of employers
when they are looking to hire someone
the way that everyone
these days is so over qualified
for so many jobs.
People have gone to school
for so long and have learned so much about
so many jobs about their fields
and stuff so specialized.
I think the really difference is the edge
you'll get is this is being well rounded interesting person.
I mean no one wants to work
with someone whose the best and very intelligent and very hard working
but has a lame personality and is a total deadbeat to hang out with,
You work with your co-workers
you wanna be to able to get along with them
you wanna be stimulated
by them you wanna be interested in them you have to work with the people,

Bow:

I disagree kind of a little bit.
Yes at some points I do agree depending on the job
what if it's like NASA,
I don't really want
or like heart surgeon I don't want the guy joking around.

Luke:

The majority of jobs I'm saying.

Bow:

The lame jobs like accounting and stuff.

Daisy:

I don't know a heart surgeon
with a humorous personality.

Bow:

Ok,
Maybe like when he's not.,,

Vivian:

Squeezing your heart,

Bow:

Maybe outside or something..,
Hey you want hear a joke.
You got three days to live.

Daisy:

Yeh with scalpel in your head.

Bow:

Just kidding.

Luke:

I mean how much of your time
of course part of whole
work thing and having a cohesion
in any work environment is
you do you work for a bit and you work well together
but then you're not working when you get to kick back
a bit can you have anything to talk about can you hang out it's cool can you go for some beers after a hard days' work.
I am sure guys from NASA
go out for beers after a hard days' work.

Daisy:

That has to be in any working environment whether it be
NASA or whether it be this studio here some kind of camaraderie
between people.
And you know that is something that life
and living and relationships can only give you.
So I think that you know
in closing that
an education is irreplaceable
and it's very important
but we have to look at the reasons
why we are educating ourselves
once again.

Vivian:

Right.

Luke:

And also
try to foster in our own children
and in our schools
and in our teachers
an attitude
of not competition with another
not by route appreciation
and learning of things
but an absorbing of things
internalization of ideas
and an ability to
interact and cooperate
with your peers throughout all stages
of growth and throughout education
because those are the values that are really
those are the traits that really valued
when you are in an actual job's situation
and which will benefit everyone
like all of humanity in the long run,

Vivian:

Ok and also you know
I think and foster other ways to educate them
like don't make them lazy
like we're talking about x-generation
encourage them to have part time jobs
while they're at school
so that they learn other lessons as well.

Bow:

Um and also
I think that our views today I
wanna say this to our listeners that you know
our views have been really pretty much liberal.
You know a lot of conservative views out there people will say
no this is the right way
and it really is up to you
these are our opinions
and uh, you know everyone has different opinions
this group here just has more
I think liberal opinions than other people.

Luke:

Yes
but if truth really be known.
We're right.

Daisy:
Amen.

Vivian: We hope.

Luke:

We know it.