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SIDE B
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Cathy: What about the aspect of love, though? If you love somebody, would you want them to kill themselves before let's say, they would naturally die, or would you want, because you love them, you don't want to see them go through pain?
Deb: Ok.
Cathy: Like, do you have?
Deb: No, I was just gonna say like no, ok, like for our own family members, whatever. Urn, I have a grandfather that's got Alzheimer's really badly, he is not so bad now, but we all sort of know that it's going to get pretty bad. (Cathy: Right) I'm kind of all for it, if it gets to a point. Can we use euthanize him because he's out of his head? He is in pain. He doesn't understand anything. (Cathy: Uh-uh) Once he gets to a point where it's really like that traumatic for the family, like emotionally traumatizing for the family or whatever. Let the poor guy go.
Bow: Is he in pain, though? I mean, it's.., it's in the mind. I mean, what is he actually feeling, I don't know, if you can...
Deb: But when it gets to a point where, like he doesn't get, I mean, he hasn't had a shower in a month apparently. You know what I mean?
Bow: Is it bothering him? Or it that bothering other people? But he doesn't care.
Deb: No, but, but I think that it does get to a point where they, they maybe can sort of like lose all functions, lose all bodily functions, they don't even get up any more, they just don't. Maybe they start to lose more like it spreads out beyond, Alzheimer's whatever, I don't know.
Luke: It's just like a really slow, slow death then, (Deb: Yeah, it's) an excruciatingly slow death. And I think it's that's, uh, it's not really love any more. If it's love, it's more selfish love at that point, because you want, you want grandpa around you. (Deb: Sure you do.) You want these people around you, of course you do. And I don't think there's any guilt in, in sort of saying like, let's let him go, let's let him have a nice, a nice exit sort of thing.
Deb: Ya, ya, ya.
Bow: You're into that, nice poetic.
Luke: That nice poetic exit, yeah. No, you don't want to go out with a lump in your pants and some nurse is.
Deb: Absolutely you know, you know, that's, that's just the way that I see it. I think that if it came to that, I think I'd rather see him go than hang on to him, just and have all the family just (Cathy: That's a very...) just, I mean it's out of love that we'd let him go not out of you know.
Bow: Yeah, speaking of the love and speaking of urn, Steven King who we we're just talking about earlier, the movie, uhm, Dolores Claiborne? (Cathy: Alright.) (Deb: Oh, Yes) What's about that? About this woman who was a real bitch (Deb: That's a great movie) and she, um, she wanted to die, but the love that she had for Dolores her made, she treated her like a shit for her whole life, and she asked Dolores, you know will you kill me, and she, what she throws her down the stairs or something, (Deb: I can't remember the end, but it's an awesome movie, I remember I really like it.) and she, uh, she left her her money, I think. (Deb: Yeah, actually, she did leave her money,) and then, it turns out in the end that she really did love her. It was just her way of showing it, and Dolores ended up, uh, killing her.
Luke: Right out of love, out of love.
Deb: Yeah, because probably, but also probably because that was a sort of relationship where you do what I say.
Bow: Right, You must kill me.
Deb: No, but out of respect, she did. You know, and 'cause also she had the upper hand at that point, she could've totally turned the tables, and made her life a living hell.
Cathy: Let's say, for example, you have a love like your husband or your wife, and they're terminally ill and they say, listen I'm in so much pain, I don't wanna live anymore, would you please kill me? Because I, for some reason this person can't do it themselves. Would you be able to do something like that? Would you be able to euthanize somebody that you love? (Bow: I wouldn't be able to.)
Deb: Well, I don't think I could. (Bow: I couldn't.) I don't know it'd be really hard. Because, again, like you would be in that every special case, where I'd have to sort of be in the situation looking at it going, well yeah, you're really sick, I know you're not gonna get better it's the hardest decision to make, and so maybe I would be the person that would be like I'll see what I can do, I'll try, you know, talk to a doctor who can get some pills.., or something to.
Bow: It depends of the method of death. (Daisy: Right) Shooting them or putting, you know...
Cathy: I have trouble killing a cockroach.
Deb: You know, not me.
Cathy: No?
Luke: If it was more like a sledge hammer or something... I wouldn't wanna do it. There are, there are, There are very peaceful ways to kill the person.
Cathy: That would be a very difficult thing to have to do. (Luke: Sure)
Bow: What do you think about, ok, this is like not people but, back to animals again (Deb: OK) like uhm, the Chinese recently, uh, the people it was in Hongkong, all these chickens had diseases, (Deb: Oh, the flu!) The flu! So they killed like uh, a million five hundred thousand chickens by putting them in barrels and gassing them. That's carbon dioxide. That's a form of euthanasia, I guess. Genocide chicken genocide?
Luke: Um, but people kill poultry everyday anyway. Poultry is going down and they're raising poultry, to kill poultry (Bow: To eat, though) to eat! but just to kill them to knock out a disease. (Cathy: Like Mad Cow disease as well.) Yeah, it just...
Deb: But is it a threat to like humans, right? Like I mean, (Bow: But I think they don't know.) because if they are just looking at the natural order, of course, the chickens gotta go.
Bow: How about like, uh, a lot of cats every year and dogs in America are euthanized just because of population. Is that, do you believe in that, do you think that they should be doing that. Is there other ways to solve the problem? Cathy: Yes, the humane society has a rule if the animal is after three months in the place, they have the right to kill it, to kill it afterward so...
Bow: But do you think that's right? or do you think that there would be other ways of controlling that?
Cathy: I think it's pretty bad actually. (Bow: Uh-uh)
Luke: It's unfortunate I think, but I mean it's, it's I think a necessary evil, I mean if people don't fix their animals, they (Deb: Right, right) will. That's their nature.
Bow: OK, what about China who's got almost a billion people. Are they gonna start doing it just because they didn't neuter each other.
Luke: Well, they are trying to do, uh, like zero-growth population.
Deb: They are trying to implement that.
Bow: But it's not gonna work, you are going against procreation?
Cathy: But yeah you are thinking about that like there are so many people in the world, and there's only a certain number of resources. (Bow: Yeah, what happens when there's not enough food?) Elderly people are taking a lot of money and stuff like this, so if you wanna...
Luke: Yeah, aging populations, this probably gonna be a really big issue in about twenty years when baby boomers all start hitting that age (Cathy: Oh, yeah) like our parents' age kind of thing, when they start getting up to that age, and they're gonna, want rights. It's just gonna be a really important weird thing, (Cathy: It is.) Because they are used to being people who always made all the rules. (Deb: Made the decisions) When, when everything was starting to really get going this century. And I think you're gonna probably, you'll see more where they're coming from and things.
Luke: I think that that's the just the way, they'll want to do it.
Deb: And they could again be the decision makers for that, because there are so many of them, and probably a lot of them will be like, you know what? I don't want to die in this way, I want to go this way.
Cathy: That could be a turning point.
Deb: Because there's gonna be like a loud voice at, at some point. There probably will be a loud voice of baby boomer's wanting it that way.
Bow: It's very interesting because it's like, uhm, with the idea of passing new legislation on allowing people to euthanize family members or people that wanna die allowing them to die, there's also new technology coming out that is helping them to live longer or cryogenics that, you know, might work. So it's like a battle against the two things, like uh, which one is gonna win? Is it gonna be, like we are gonna sustain life longer or, or they're just gonna just kill people at the drop of a dime ?
Deb: I'd like to see them, well I mean who wouldn't, but like obviously like, find cures for diseases.
Luke: Yeah, I think, I think the trend is gonna be try to extend life.
Deb: Well, ya, I know that's what you're saying too, but also like, as ya, well ya, I'd like to see life be able to go on in a, in a...
Luke: Educated way, I mean.
Deb: Yea, like in a way that they're contributing whatever, in a way that they're there like, coherently there.
Cathy: That's an interesting point like to find cures, say for example, you have AIDS, you have cancer, those are pretty you know, terrible ways to die, and you are at the point like, ok, I don't wanna live any more, this really sucks, you kill yourself, and a month later they come up with a cure, hypothetically that could happen. (Luke: Sure, yeah)
Daisy: It totally could, but...
Bow: Well, I mean it has happened, it has happened with like polio and stuff before they came up with a vaccine people die from it or tuberculosis things like that.
Deb: And there is no point in dwelling on it I don't think, because this is the decision you made and if you chose to be euthanized and like two days later, they discovered the cure for your disease, you know, you made that decision, and there is nothing anybody can do to change it, you know, maybe your family is gonna feel a little bit badly, but they let you go through that. But, you know what, they are gonna have to get over it it's a sort of why dwell on it, you know. And you could spend way too much time to...
Luke: And you can always explore your options. I mean if you're like, I'm thinking about maybe killing myself, but if you look into it, you know, you can say (Deb: And you see that it's close.) yeah there is there something on the horizon (Deb: We're going to know.) or thousands of miles away. Basically, we have no idea what you have. It's gonna get worse and worse, like exponentially by the day.
Cathy: Have you ever seen that movie Lorenzo's oil? (Bow: Yeah) Something like this is good?
Bow: There's also a movie uh, the Michael Landon Story? Where uh, he had cancer and the son was trying to get these medicines from, from Mexico that would cure his uh, prostate cancer or something. Michael Landon was just like, no son this is just my uh... (Luke: Oh, really?) You will, you will suffer, he was just like this is what happened to me, this is my destiny, leave me alone.
Luke: Yeah, I suppose there's, there's... (Deb: There're something there.) cause he lived a full life or something.
Bow: Yeah he had all the fame and fortune, and bunch of kids, and a bunch of wives, and jewels.
Luke: Ok, I really think, Yeah, I mean, some people would feel like they maybe they really would wanna die. I mean, maybe they're sick and they're...
Deb: And that's why it's your choice.
Luke: It's the choice, it's not like you have to die and stuff. But I don't think people should be so freaked out by the idea.
Deb: They should be allowed to have the choice. (Luke: Right, right)
Cathy: But what you were saying before about the power of the mind. I think that's something you know like I've seen many movies, and you know the last scene is like I'm dying now. But how do you know that? You have made that decision to die at that point. And you have come to terms with everything in your life even like the unconscious things you don't even think exist. So, if you really wanted to die, maybe you could just die through your mind's power.
Deb: My mom says that happens a lot like at the hospice and stuff like that.
Luke: They decide one night, I think I'm not gonna do it anymore.
Deb: Oh, No. One story that she told me was a man that had AIDS or whatever, and his boyfriend was there and he would stay and stay and stay. He wanted to be there for his last moment. And he finally said, the sick guy said, you know, why don't you go get a cup of coffee and so he left and then he went. And then he came back and he was gone. And my mom had to explain, you know. It's amazing people will choose their time to go. (Luke, Cathy: Yes)
Cathy: I think, I think, that's true, so like maybe somebody that thinks that they wanna die, they wanna have euthanasia, maybe they don't really want to there's some part of them, that is still hanging on to life. Or maybe see people that just hang on, hang on, why is that?
Bow: Maybe they think they can make it, make it through.
Deb: Well, also even when people are told that they have terminal illness, you have six months to live, lots of people will die. That's a powerful statement to say you've got six months to live. Lots, lots of people live, people will die within that six months, because they suddenly give up, but maybe had they not heard those words. They'd just think well, they'll just continue, and continue, and continue. They can't.
Cathy: Yeah, I've heard of that, I've heard of that before, after, right after your doctor says you're gonna die, you die shortly after.
Bow: Yeah, I totally believe in the power of the mind (Deb: Suggestion almost) I think there's a lot more to our minds than we know, than we are more capable of using.
Deb: And so then, if you did open up the avenue of euthanasia, then suddenly that avenue gets a little bit becomes more of a dead end. Because suddenly, it's like well, I'm allowed to go, so I'm gonna go. Less people will maybe choose to try and fight it out or use their own power, their own mind to come through it.
Cathy: Right. Maybe if euthanasia was allowed and you felt like this burden like your family is going through this huge financial burden, maybe then you say, ok, kill me. But maybe really you're not completely ready to die, because if you were, your mind would shut up and accept that, and you would die. Or maybe we haven't really learned to use our minds completely, (Bow: I think so.) and so we can expect that everybody that wants to die, could do it themselves that way.
Deb: It's wow.
Luke: But I mean a lot of these decisions.
Daisy: It's so much to think about it.
Luke: A lot of the situations though, it's often uh, a case of like, not actually being um, given anything, you're not actually being killed per se but often just left, just left alone. I mean just like stop the machines, stop all the gadgets and stuff, (Deb, Cathy: Right) because maybe you are being forced to stay alive. Even though you are well passed, just like, just let me go, or just take me away. But because you got this state of the art equipment hook, hooked up to you and stuff that's like literally keeping your heart pumping and stuff.
Cathy: Manually keeping you alive that supposedly.
Luke: Then you could conceivably and theoretically live forever, why not, you know.
Bow: But I think that idea of being hooked up, and having that technology is because there is hope that they will maybe miraculously, oh, we just found this medicine in Uganda, and the whatever, and uh, here take it now, you're better. That's the whole idea of that.
Luke: It's a race against time or something.
Bow: Exactly, and so it's like we gotta try everything that's humanly impossible (Deb: Right) to keep this person alive as much as we can. And if we can find it.
Cathy: Maybe we shouldn't think of life and death as two completely separate things. Right, you're living in life, and you're dying. Every day every minute, we are all dying, we all accept that fact. (Deb: One closer step to death.) Right? And so, that the death is just a course of living.
Bow: Well, that's yeah, I guess in a certain religion, that's the idea, but I mean, Buddhism is not like that. It's like a cycle, so you're living, you're dying, you're living, you're dying. Maybe they might think another way. That’s not, we're not getting closer to death, but we are getting closer to uh, (Deb: A new life) an anniversary. (Luke: And the government...)
Cathy: But getting close to, I think, to that point, right? Whether it's a death or it's the start of a new life, we are always getting closer to that point. And so do you wanna rush the process, or do you wanna just let it go.
Luke: The thing is the people that make the rules, like the government. They don't see it in terms of, you know, the Buddhist stance or, you know, the continuum sort of from life into death. They just see it as tax paying citizen (Deb, Cathy: Right.) stiff, you know, that's really, they're the ones who are making the decision. And who are basically regulating for the majority of the people whether or not they have control over them.
Deb: They make decisions that aren't based on.
Bow: But if they didn't regulate it, then I think it would get out of hand (Luke: I agree) like we talked about earlier. So they have to regulate somewhat. Because that's what governments set up for to regulate things would get out of hand, it'd be chaos. (Deb: Regulations)
Cathy: If you're in charge of a society, right, you want every single member of your society to be adding something to the society. Right? And that's like maybe a long time ago, and these like forging societies, people had to keep moving, it would make sense to leave the elderly people behind, because they cannot move. Maybe in a farming community, it might be nice to keep the old people alive because they have a lot of traditions, stories, and knowledge to give to the younger generation. So in this society, we have to think, ok, people who are terminally ill, what are they adding to society. And they are actually adding something. They are adding something I don't know.
Deb: Well, That is ok, but if they are, they could be, because if they are willing to try a new drug, they are the ones who are the sick. Right? (Cathy: Right) So they are the ones who are going to respond to the drug. They needs sick people to try (Bow: They're guinea pigs) experimental drugs on. (Cathy: OK, guinea pig is one) Yeah, so they are, they are contributing in some way, you know, like even if they are not physically fit or whatever, you know like they're still making their body available to say like, ya. I will try that new experimental drug because even if it doesn't work, at least you'll know. And that will get you off this page and on to a new page. (Cathy: Right)
Luke: And also they have a unique vantage point being so close to death, and still among the living, you know, and they a have unique prospective in that way.
Cathy: That's right, because.
Luke: That's something that a lot of people will never like we say, we can't really conceive of it, you know, because it's hard for us to say unless we've actually been there, or been that close to it or something, (Bow: That's actually is) uh, the perspective thing, they offer.
Bow: Another problem with government regulations uh, on the bad side of it is that urn, these people that want to try new drugs to try to stay alive, or guinea pigs are, are regulated by the government and they are not letting them try these new drugs that might actually do something or a combination of something or they don't let them try it like (Deb: They aren't so accessible.)
Bow: Because it might be harmful or something. (Luke: Exactly, It might worsen the situation.
Bow: Right now in South Africa, there is a pharmaceutical company that has developed a generic form of the AIDS medication. And the government is not letting them produce it which is really sad because that's where they say you know most of AIDS cases are is in Africa. That's like the hub of it.
Deb: Why? Do you know why?
Bow: Urn, Because it hasn't been tested enough, and what not, but urn...
Cathy: Maybe it's expensive as well, I think.
Bow: That's the generic brand that's why they're making it, because it'll be cheap for the people.
Cathy: Oh, for the masses.
Bow: For the masses. That's the idea. And that's why, and that's the problem.
Luke: But it might have side effects, doesn't (Bow: It might) it might actually make it worse. But it might make it better.
Bow: Yeah, so like I'm sure there's many people that are saying Yeah, give it to met. (Deb: Yeah, exactly, to be that person to be like, woah, I gotta third arm now, so don't be given this out any more, you know like.
Luke: That's where the government actually sort of like has to back off cause it is, it is down to an individual decision.
Bow: I don't know cause I mean, because the government was one that started AIDS in the first place.
Luke: Oh, you're a such conspiracy theorist. (Bow: Yeah) That's not.
Deb, Luke: That's not true.
Bow: That's not?
Luke: You don't know that it is. It probably is, but...
Cathy: We don't know for sure.
Luke: Let's not talk it about anyway.
Cathy: Only the strict facts here, (Bow: OK,)
Cathy, Bow: Euthanasia.
Luke: Euthanasia. Well, is it fair that rich people have like, all the access (Bow: Have all the money?) If you only have the two options, like get really cool like cutting edge technology to keep yourself alive, or you can have euthanasia. Poor people will only have one of those options. The euthanasia option.
Deb: And it's their own form most likely cause...
Luke: You're right.
Bow: Well, I believe, I mean, in life with everything else, it's just like the, uh, the cards that you have been dealt. You're poor, you're rich, you're middle class, that's what your life is. That's what you've been given in this life anyway. And um, if you do have more opportunities to have a bigger house, and a swimming pool. If you have more opportunities to keep yourself alive longer because you have more money than. That's just the way it goes. That's what I think.
Luke: And I think that that's where rich people come in handy when they get terminal diseases, they are very handy, in that way. Because they will actually, only when people do start trying to, yeah they have to develop the stuff, but people have do it before it can be more developed and, it has been studied and stuff. That's where they sort of just lead the way, and eventually, it will trickle down to other people with maybe, less money (Bow: Right) hopefully.
Bow: Of course, like um, poor people a lot more poor people die first before rich people. For example, I have been thinking about this recently, um, Magic Johnson has, had AIDS for what like 10 years now, maybe. (All Yeah) And you don't hear of him ever being sick and going to the hospital?
Deb: Because he's got the money to...
Bow: To take his AZT cocktails.
Deb: Well that, he is probably taking other other experimental drugs and things, he can probably sort of select like, well, Ya, this one on paper looks like it's been, it's really strong like it's a good drug to take. This, what you know, as far as experimental drugs go, he can at least have the choices for which experimental drugs, and he gets so many more opportunities to get those drugs.
Luke: He can afford it, and he can try it, and he's got nothing to lose by trying all these drugs. So he's actually making a, what he is doing is benefiting all of mankind because, if it works on him, then it'll work on the average people. And then that's an avenue that we can continue to pursue, you know, in that, in a scientific sense, do the studies on it and stuff. He's gone into total remission almost with it, you know.
Bow: Doesn't it also cause like people to say, look at him, he didn't die. So I'm not gonna like protect myself, they're gonna come up with a cure.
Deb: But I mean only an idiot would say that, because, well no, really because I mean obviously he is in a different, um, like if you wanna look at it as a class (Bow: Social class) whatever. Ya. He is way up there in a high bracket and stuff, only a fool would think that that's all it was, was oh, he is just another guy, he is not just another guy, he is another rich guy that has...
Bow: But as he may be saying that trickles down they're just saying well, I can make it, I can stay alive long enough until it trickles down.
Luke: Your kidding yourself if you think it's gonna happen that quickly like you're still.
Deb: It's gonna take a lot of time.
Luke: Most people who're dying of AIDS are no where near, what's his face uh, Magic Johnson's bracket, you know, and most people who are suffering from something like AIDS live in, you know, the least developed countries in the world, you know. They just will never develop, they make, he makes in thirty seconds what they make in a year kind of thing. (Bow: Right) to put in into perspective, so, I don't know if that's the best tact to take.
Cathy: So do you think that from that perspective that euthanasia should be available to poor people as an option? Because they can't afford, you know, the pain saving devices that a rich person could?
Luke: I think it's market, market influences supply and demand if people want, if people want to be put out of their misery, they can find a way to put themselves out of their miseries. It's all market flux, you know.
Deb: But then, ya, like it, it almost seems what sort of is a fine line, is euthanasia and suicide? (Cathy: Right) Like, it's, I mean, it's basically it's you killing yourself, you making the choice to die. (Cathy: Right) Right? Ya, ok, ya, if it is assisted or whatever. But is that not what Kervorkian does, though? He has it set up. He has, he sets up the little like whatever it is. And you push the button, when you are ready to go, you push the button. So it's basically you killing yourself. Ya, I guess, I...
Cathy: I think that is euthanasia in the strictest terms, right, like assisted suicide.
Deb: But I mean, otherwise, ya, if that person could just get a hand, get their hands on a bunch of sleeping pills or whatever, would they take the chance of just swallowing those?
Bow: Well, as I was saying earlier, I think they wanna like kind of handover the responsibility to somebody. (Deb: Right) So, it's not just them solely doing it themselves, there is somebody that's taking responsibility for them also. I mean they're taking it on themselves, yes, I'm killing myself. But this guy's helping me, so he is just as bad. You know, if it, if it turns out to be bad in the other world or whatever next like.
Luke: But he is also a medical doctor, he is, he is, like reviewing them, and he is like checking out their condition, and if he is, he is not some guy they met in a bowling alley or something. You know, he is, he's a educated man, he knows diseases (Deb: He's got qualifications) are gonna, he's qualified to say one or the other if it's viable.
Bow: You know, there's doctors that say, you have a month to live and there's nothing wrong with you. You know, you get a second opinion. (Luke: That's true tune up.) I suppose if ...
Deb: But I think he is.
Bow: If these people have gotten to the point where, they're gonna kill themselves. I think they've probably gotten second and third opinions.
Deb: Probably, you know, they definitely probably scoped out their options. And he is probably like a safe bet, you know, and he as far as assisted suicide goes, he's sort of the god father, you know, you can feel safe with him. He will take care of you, and he will get it done the way you want it.
Bow: He will kill you.
Cathy: But he even published a book about different ways to safely kill yourself, because I think that's a big concern. Because it is suicide, right? (Deb: Uho uh) But you don't know like, ok, if I swallow these pills what am I actually going to do? So here you have a book. (Deb: And suddenly you're a vegetable.)
Bow: Is that such a good idea, though, I mean, because it is available to the public for the people that have problems that can be (Luke: Cured) mental problems.
Cathy: I worked in Cole's bookstore in Canada, and his book was for sale.
Bow: I mean is it like uh, is it the right thing to do, or should it be like just given (Deb: Nice plug?) to medical community to, to hand out rather than like in Cole's Bookstore where anybody who's mental and wants to off themselves can buy it and find different ways to do it.
Luke: Yeah, it's sure. It's gotta be an enlightened decision, I think. It's not one that, I don't think anybody who does choose to do that, I don't think it's an easy one to come to. And some people who just wanna off themselves because they just can't take it anymore (Deb: Oh, Yeah)or for the sheer whatever of it. That's definitely not, that's not something that you'd like to open up.
Deb: That's beyond euthanasia, you know, well, that's, I think, you know, like Bow, the specific cases about people that are sick, and that, that you know.
Luke: But I mean it's a bookstore, it's like a trip to your local bookstore wherein and by making, by opening up too much, by making it a little too easy just to kill yourself.
Bow: As far as like marketing goes, I think that's kind of interesting, I mean that's a book that I'd like to read just for...
Cathy: It's interesting.
Deb: Yah, it would be interesting.
Bow: There are selling, you know, the popularity of it I think, it just not so cool, but...
Cathy: How about how you feel about this like ideally, this is how I think. Right now in the position that I'm in I would like to say that I'll live my life through the way that it's planned, if I'm meant to have a very painful long death then, I will do that. This is what I am saying now.
Deb: Sure.
Cathy: And if I have a family member who is going through a lot of pain, and wants me to help them kill them, I would like to say that I could also do that.
Deb: Right.
Cathy: So I don't know if that's contradictory.
Deb: No, I don't think it is because you're speaking of yourself, and you're also allowing someone that you love to have their own decision.
Bow: That's the problem with a lot of these topics is that we can think of our opinions but until we are actually in that position (Deb: Who knows?) Yeah, we don't really know, we can just guess what we (Deb: Which is interesting.) think it would be like.
Deb: Maybe more when the baby boomers do get to that point, is that they're the ones that are going to definitely put the final decision on it, you know. They will be the ones that are there going through death and pain and the whatever, that gets them to be end.
Bow: Yes, I think it's a really just urn, case by case, situation depends on the situation at the time if someone should be euthanized, depending on maybe finance, depending on urn, (Luke: Individual preference?) Exactly, (Luke: On, on, on family opinions.)
Deb: Yeah, definitely case by case I think, it's probably.
Cathy: You'd like to live in a place where the government said that it is legal.
Deb: Well, that it's your choice.
Cathy: Right.
Deb: Right? Legally it's your choice.
Cathy: Uh-uh.
Luke: Right, but also don't put too much hands in, too much power in the hands of just your average people. Also, although governments are kind of dumb, people are also kind of dumb, so they have to counter-balance each other. You don't want just everybody going around euthanizing themselves or,
Deb: And they are not gonna please everybody, but if they can definitely open up the door, but put restrictions on it. I think then you sort of you've got to at least, you can satisfy both sides somewhat, you know.
Luke: Alright, let's get out of here then.
Deb: Ya, I've got a class right now, so.
Cathy: That's ok, it was a good conversation guys, next time let's talk about something brighter.
Luke: A little more up.
Bow: OK, it's on you, Luke.
Deb: OK, thanks Luke, see you later.
Luke: I got the bill again, you guys, come back here. Ha ha ha ha.
