Dinner with the FT: Auction man
Pierre Omidyar, the 38-year old founder of the mammoth online auction site, eBay, doesn’t do media interviews that often, let alone over dinner. But here he is in Bar Americain, a busy American-style brasserie in midtown Manhattan.
We’re sitting between a raw fish bar laden with oysters and clams, and a crowded cocktail bar where an athletic barman is mixing drinks. Black-suited waiters sail by, oblivious to the fact that they’ve got the world’s 35th richest man in their midst. (The latest Forbes rich list says he is worth $10bn.)
Omidyar does not, it has to be said, look like a billionaire. He seems much too young and unassuming with his cherubic smile, heavily gelled black hair and metal-framed glasses. And although he is wearing chinos and a freshly pressed checked shirt, he gives the impression that he would be more at home in jeans and a T-shirt.
He isn’t so interested in being interviewed, he says, because he doesn’t think his views, or those of any other business leader, are nearly as important as individuals working together to create change.
“I really believe everyone has the power to make a difference,” he says. “And by working together we can help make the world a better place.”
It would be easy to dismiss this as trite utopianism if it was coming from anyone else. But Omidyar founded eBay just over 10 years ago on a similarly idealistic belief that “people are basically good”, which later became the company’s mantra.
What was initially an experiment to create an efficient online market, where buyers and sellers had equal access to information, is now a $50bn corporation. You can buy anything on the site, from a brussels sprout to a $5m Gulfstream jet. A car is sold on eBay every second and some 750,000 people make their living from it.
It was the ultimate internet fantasy: a good idea that caught fire. And when it went public in 1998 it made Omidyar one of the wealthiest men in the world. Almost overnight. “We didn’t do moderately wealthy. We went straight to ridiculous,” he said later.
eBay’s success, according to Omidyar, was largely accidental. “It was just a side project. Efficient markets are really neat but individuals usually can’t participate in them. The internet changed that. I never thought the business could have this kind of impact. I am a software engineer, a technologist, I was focused on the technology.”
Omidyar and his family moved from Paris to America when he was six years old and he grew up in Maryland, where he always had a fascination with gadgets. He studied computer science at Tufts University and is still interested in technology, but more as a tool to empower people than anything else.
Though he is still eBay’s chairman, he has gradually stepped down from the day-to-day running of the company and is now one of the most active philanthropists in the US.
Omidyar is in New York to attend an international conference on global poverty, where he is speaking about microfinance: small-scale loans for impoverished entrepreneurs in developing countries, often women, who want to, say, set up a market stall or sell chickens.
It is not a new idea, but Omidyar says he has a new take on the subject. “I am not sure that I will be able to get my message across at the conference in less than 10 minutes,” he says, and as soon as we order drinks (a glass of wine for me; a diet coke for him), he explains his ideas.
“I believe microfinance has huge potential, not only to eliminate global poverty, which is remarkable, but also to help people achieve social, economic and political empowerment. But in order to have any real impact, microfinance companies need to sustain themselves and grow. And to do that they need to focus on profits, not only social outcomes.”
In other words, business can be a force for social change.
He has been so caught up in the discussion that he has ignored the menu. When the waitress comes over a second time to take our order, Omidyar quickly passes over the more exotic seafood options and orders a steak. I opt for salmon and we both agree on the green salad as a starter.
Ordering over, Omidyar says he learned a lot of lessons from eBay that help his philanthropic work. “I wondered, how could I use this incredible opportunity to make the world a better place?” he recalls. “I started thinking about the social effect of eBay. It has 150 million customers and these are people who have in a sense learned to trust a stranger because of eBay. That’s an amazing result.”
Even so, eBay has faced many controversies: fraudulent sellers; people trying to sell human organs, sex videos and even military arms on the site. Omidyar says these were relatively isolated incidents and overall the percentage of reported fraud on eBay is tiny and the company speedily removes offending auctions.
Companies such as eBay can only succeed if they achieve a positive social impact, he says. “eBay didn’t set out to create a trusting environment on the internet, but it could never have been successful if it hadn’t. I think that there is a class of businesses like eBay: they need to create positive social change in order to succeed themselves.”
After five years of following the traditional approach to philanthropy - setting up a foundation; donating to non-profit organisations - Omidyar changed direction in 2004. He and his wife Pam, a fellow Tufts University graduate, set up the Omidyar Network, an investment group that funds not only non-profit organisations, but also profit-making businesses.
“I have learnt that you if you want to have a global impact you can’t ignore business,” he says. “Nor should you. I don’t mean corporate responsibility programmes but business models that provoke social change. The big difference between companies and traditional charities is that companies can grow in a self-financing and sustainable way, while charities cannot, as they need a continuous injection of capital to survive.”
The companies that the Omidyar Network has invested in have a common theme: self-empowerment. They include several companies involved in “open source” software, or computer programs that are freely available and can be changed or improved for all sorts of individual uses.
The Network has also funded groups trying to increase government transparency, such as the Center for Public Integrity, and others trying to encourage more people to vote.
But the area in which Omidyar has made the biggest investment has been microfinance. He has put more than $15m into a range of microfinance organisations and in early November 2005 announced a gift of $100m to his old university, Tufts, for international initiatives. “Microfinance is a great example of how companies, by pursuing profits, can make the world a better place,” he says.
As we begin our main course, Omidyar tells me he has recently rediscovered Adam Smith. “He is a very eloquent proponent of the notion that individuals pursuing their self-interest in the right environment will make society a better place. And I really believe that.”
But does he think that the US, with its well-documented social inequality, embodies Smith’s principles today? “I think the core principle is true. Sure, there are lots of examples of bad businesses, self-interest gone amok, but it shouldn’t be that way. That’s when I say go back to Adam Smith and he will show you in the right environment that profits are a sign that society is better off.”
Omidyar’s faith in Adam Smith’s theories reminds me of the joke about the French engineer who asks: “That’s fine in practice, but will it work in theory?”
“Although I left more than 30 years ago, I think I still have some of that French spirit,” he laughs. Having roots in two cultures “changes the way you think, shows that there is more than one way to think about something”.
This is a recurring theme throughout the meal: “We need to look at things a little differently,” he says, or “lets redefine the question” or “turn that idea on its head”. No problem, it seems, is too big to be solved by human ingenuity.
What about the impact of China’s rapid industrialisation on the environment? Surely that’s a potential problem? Not for Omidyar. “Take energy. I fully expect the Chinese to figure out how to do low cost nuclear energy because they are going to have to do it for their society to survive. They are a smart people and they know if they continue on their trajectory that there is going to be a problem.”
What about the decline of community in the US, then? It’s hard to see that changing. “I like to think aspirationally about challenges like this. I look at how I would prefer to see the world and to understand the attributes necessary to create these conditions, rather than focusing on the ills of today.”
As we near the end of the meal, I ask what he wants his legacy to be. He seems surprised by the question.
“I shy away from anything that’s about putting your stamp on the world. Who knows? Maybe in the next 10 years, we can inspire people to think about the world a little differently, as eBay has done. If we could just move the needle a little bit, I would be pretty happy.
Bar Americain, New Yo
2 x mesclun salad
1 x hanger stea
1 x wild salmon, Pinot Noir, cracked wheat, hazelnut
1 x cauliflower and goat cheese grati
1 x hot potato chips, blue cheese sauce
1 x Diet Coke
1 x glass Hayward red wine
1 x decaf coffee
1 x Earl Grey tea
$12 为花钱“发愁”的eBay创始人
现年38岁的皮埃尔?欧米迪亚(Pierre Omidyar)是在线拍卖网站巨头eBay的创始人，他很少接受媒体采访，更别说共进晚餐了。但此刻他在Bar Americain，这是一家曼哈顿中区的小型美式餐厅，生意兴隆。
我们坐在一排摆满牡蛎和蛤蜊的生鱼柜台和拥挤的鸡尾酒柜台之间，一位体格健壮的酒吧服务员正在柜台后调酒。身穿黑色西装的侍应生步态轻盈地走过，仿佛不知道全球排名第35的富豪就在他们身边。（福布斯(Forbes)最新富豪榜称，他的身价高达100亿美元。)
外表不像亿万富翁
必须承认，欧米迪亚看上去不像个亿万富翁。他的笑容天真无邪，乌黑的头发上抹了许多发胶，戴着金属框架的眼镜，看上去太年轻了，也没有一点架子。尽管他穿着斜纹棉布裤子和新熨过的格子衬衫，但给人的印象是：他如果穿牛仔裤和体恤衫的话，会更加自在。
他表示对接受采访不感兴趣，因为他认为自己或其他任何商界领袖的观点，都没有众人通力协作、创造变革更为重要。
“我的确认为，每个人都有能力产生影响，”他表示。“通过合作，我们可以让世界变得更美好。”
如果这话出自他人之口，我们很容易把它当成老套的乌托邦式理想而不予理睬。但就在10年多之前，当欧米迪亚创建eBay时，正是基于类似的理想主义信念――“人性本善”，这后来成为该公司信条。
eBay每秒卖出一辆汽车
EBay最初只是一个旨在创建高效率网上市场的试验，让市场中的买家和卖家拥有同等的信息，现在该公司已成为一家市值500亿美元的企业。你可以在该网站买到任何东西，从球芽甘蓝，到价值500万美元的湾流(Gulfstream)喷气式飞机。在eBay上，每秒钟售出一辆汽车，大约有75万人靠它谋生。
它是一个终极互联网梦想：好创意成就大事业。当eBay于1998年上市时，欧米迪亚几乎就在一夜之间成为全球最富有的人之一。他后来表示，“我们不是变得中等富有，而是一步到位，富有得离谱。”
据欧米迪亚称，eBay的成功很大程度上出于偶然。“这只是一个次要的项目。高效率的市场确实很棒，但个人往往无法参与其中。互联网改变了这种情况。我从未想到，这项业务会具有如此之大的影响力。我是一个软件工程师，一个搞技术的人，精力集中在技术方面。”
欧米迪亚6岁时，他们一家从巴黎搬到了美国。在马里兰州长大的他，总是对电子小玩艺着迷不已。他在塔夫茨大学(Tufts University)学习计算机科学，如今仍对技术感兴趣，但更多地是将其作为赋予人们力量的工具。
尽管仍担任eBay董事长，他已经逐渐淡出公司的日常运营工作，目前已成为美国最为活跃的慈善家之一。
关注“小额信贷”
欧米迪亚正在纽约参加关于全球贫穷问题的国际会议，他将在该会议上发表关于“小额信贷”(microfinance)的讲话：为发展中国家的贫穷创业者提供小额贷款。这些创业者通常是女性，她们希望摆个货摊，或卖鸡等。
这种想法并不新鲜，但欧米迪亚表示，他对这一主题有新的思考。他表示，“我无法确定，自己能否在会上用不到10分钟时间，传递想要表达的信息。”在我们点完饮料之后（我点了一杯酒，他点了健怡可乐），他说道。
“我认为小额信贷有着巨大的潜力，不仅在消除全球贫困方面作用显著，还可以赋予人们在社会、经济和政治方面的力量。但是，要想真的见成效，小额信贷公司需要维持自身，并谋求发展。为此，他们需要把重点放在创造利润上，而不仅是关注社会成果。”
换言之，企业可以是一种推动社会变革的力量。
他完全沉浸在讨论之中，以至于忘了看菜单。当女侍应生第二次走来取定单时，欧米迪亚迅速地掠过那些比较花哨的海鲜类选择，点了一份牛排。我点了份三文鱼，我们俩都同意选生菜沙拉作头盘。
EBay让人学会信任陌生人
点过菜后，欧米迪亚表示，他从eBay那里学到了很多对其慈善事业有帮助的东西。“我曾想过，怎样才能利用这个不可思议的机会，让这个世界变得更美好呢？”他回忆道。“我开始思考eBay的社会效应，它拥有1.5亿客户，正是由于eBay的存在，从某种意义上这些人学会了信任陌生人。这是一个令人惊叹的结果。”
即便如此，eBay仍面临很多争议：蓄意欺诈的卖家；有人试图通过该网站贩售人体器官、黄色光碟甚至军火等等。欧米迪亚表示，这些都是相对孤立的意外事件，总体而言，eBay上报告的欺诈行为只占极小比例，而公司也会尽快撤除违规拍卖。
他说，eBay这样的公司只有在取得积极的社会影响后才能获得成功。“创建eBay的目的并不是为了在网上建立一个可信赖的环境，但若没有创建这样一个可信赖的环境，公司永远不会成功。我认为现在有很多类似eBay这样的企业：为了自己的成功，它们需要创造积极的社会变革。”
在遵循传统慈善方式（包括设立基金会、向非盈利组织捐款等）5年后，欧米迪亚于2004年改变了做法。他和妻子帕姆(Pam)共同成立了投资集团欧米迪亚网络 (Omidyar Network)，不仅资助非盈利组织，也向盈利型企业提供资金。他的妻子也毕业于塔夫茨大学。
“不能忽略企业”
“我认识到，若想产生国际影响，你就不能忽略企业，”他表示。“你也不应该忽略这点。我指的不是企业社会责任计划，而是引发社会变化的商业模式。企业和传统慈善机构的巨大差异在于，企业可以通过自筹资金和可持续的方式实现增长，但慈善组织不能，它们需要持续不断的注入资金才能生存。”
欧米迪亚网络投资的公司有一个共同主题：自强(self-empowerment)。其中几家公司涉足“开放源代码”软件，即能够免费获取、并可根据各种具体使用要求，进行修改或改进的电脑程序。
欧米迪亚网络还为一些努力提高政府透明度的团体提供资金，例如公职人员廉正中心(Center for Public Integrity)，还有其它一些试图鼓励更多选民投票的团体。
然而，欧米迪亚最大的投资领域是在小额信贷方面。他已经向一系列小额信贷机构投入逾1500万美元，2005年11月初，他还宣布向其母校塔夫茨大学捐赠1亿美元，帮助开展国际项目。他表示：“小额信贷是一个非常好的例子，它证明了企业在逐利的同时，也能创造一个更加美好的世界。”
对亚当?斯密有新认识
当我们开始享用主菜时，欧米迪亚告诉我，最近他对亚当?斯密(Adam Smith)有了重新认识。“他曾有力地宣扬这样一种观点，即在合理的环境下，个人追逐自身利益也会提高社会福利。我确实认同这一观点。”
但他是否认为，当今美国社会历历在目的不平等现象体现了斯密的原理？他回答：“我认为其核心原理是正确的。确实，有很多不好的企业，它们自私自利到了发狂的地步，但事情不应该这样。这就回到刚才我说的亚当?斯密理论，他将告诉你，在合理环境中，企业盈利代表社会福利提高。”
欧米迪亚对亚当?斯密理论的推崇让我想起一则笑话，一位法国工程师问：“这在实践中行得通，但理论上说得通吗？”
他笑道：“尽管我离开法国30多年，但我认为我仍然具备这种法国精神。”植根于两种文化，“将改变你的思维模式，让你知道，考虑问题的方式不只一种。”
这是一个在我们用餐期间不断重复的主题：他屡屡表示“我们需要换个角度看问题”，或者“让我们重新定义这一问题”，或者“反过来看看这一观点”等。在他眼里，似乎没有人类智慧解决不了的问题。
中国人“是个聪明的民族”
他如何看待中国迅速工业化对环境造成的影响呢？这是个潜在的问题吗？欧米迪亚不这样认为。他回答道：“以能源为例。我预计中国完全能够解决开发低成本核能的问题，因为为了生存发展，他们必须对此有所作为。他们是个聪明的民族，他们明白，如果继续按照现有的路线发展，他们将会遇到问题。”
那么他如何看待美国的社会意识下滑问题呢？我们很难看到这方面有什么变化。他回答道：“我喜欢以积极态度思考这一类富有挑战性的问题。我关注的问题是，我希望这个世界如何发展、如何理解创造这些条件所必需的因素，而不是关注当今社会的种种诟病。”
用餐接近尾声之际，我问他希望留下什么精神遗产。他似乎对这个问题感到惊讶。
他回答道：“我尽量避开那些让你在这个世界上留下记号的事情。谁知道呢？或许在未来10年中，我们能够鼓励人们用不同的方式思考这个世界，就像eBay所做的那样。如果我们能稍稍改变世界的话，我将会很高兴。”
纽约Bar Americain 餐厅
2份什锦生菜沙拉
1份牛排
1份黑比诺葡萄酒(Pinot Noir)、小麦末和榛果伴就的野生鲑鱼
1份涂有羊奶酪的花椰菜
1份热蓝纹奶酪酱土豆片
1份健怡可乐
1杯Hayward红酒
1份无咖啡因咖啡
1份伯爵茶(Earl Grey)
总价：124美元
