For Dangdang Founder, Everyone Is a Customer
Yu Thinks China Can Thrive
As a Technology Latecomer;
Hard Job: Firing Executives
When Peggy Yu and her husband founded online bookseller Dangdang.com in 1999, China had only four million Internet users and scores of retailers competed for the few dollars they spent online. When the dot-com bubble burst, investors and friends urged the pair to get into a different business.
Seven years later, the number of Chinese online has mushroomed to 123 million, and Dangdang is thriving. Ms. Yu and her husband now are co-presidents of a company that calls itself China's largest online retailer by revenue and that has expanded into a slew of other product categories. In addition to books, Dangdang now sells everything from Motorola Razr phones to popcorn makers to tickets for a recent Black Eyed Peas hip-hop concert in Beijing.
Dangdang and its competition have attracted growing interest from foreign investors. This month, Dangdang announced the completion of its third round of financing, a $27 million infusion from a quartet of investors led by U.S. venture-capital firm DCM-Doll Capital Management, in return for a minority stake in Dangdang. Ms. Yu says the company might go public, possibly next year, though there are no firm plans to do so.
The 41-year-old Ms. Yu, who holds a master's degree in business administration from New York University, spoke with Jason Dean in Beijing.
WSJ: You are in the book-selling business. Is there any particular business book that you have found useful?
Ms. Yu: "The Making of an American Capitalist" [Roger Lowenstein's biography of Warren Buffett] has had a lasting impression on me, and I go back to that book often. I've never met Warren Buffett in person, but from the book, he comes across as a person with vision and a lot of patience who does a lot of quiet thinking and deliberation. He sticks to several simple principles he believes in. At the same time, he is not stubborn.
And one of his biggest principles, return on investment, affects a lot of my thinking. Whenever I spend money, I always think of value. If I spend this much here while I spend that much there, what's the value I derive from each area. He is extremely sensitive about these yardsticks.
WSJ: Is there one thing you wish that new hires at Dangdang already know when they come in?
LEADING IN ASIA
Questions or comments? Please visit:
www.wsj.com/question. Or email:
Leadership@wsj.com. Please include your name and country.Ms. Yu: Skills can be taught. Attitudes and habits are more important. I wish we could find a lot of people who are natural learners, who enjoy learning. I believe attitude decides your fate.
WSJ: Is there anything that you know now that you wish you had known when you were starting out?
Ms. Yu: Setting standards. I think benchmarking is extremely important. If there are no rules, everybody can work very hard, but in all sorts of directions. And then people get into argumentative moods. And people are using different yardsticks and aren't able to evaluate the situation very objectively.
WSJ: What is the most important piece of technology that you use?
Ms. Yu: My cellphone. On average, I send out 1,200 to 1,500 text messages to people every month. I also use it to check on prices in stores. I look around a store, I key in an ISBN number or some other number, send it to Dangdang, and instantly I know the Dangdang price versus the store price.
WSJ: In your industry, are there big differences between China and the rest of the world?
Ms. Yu: I think China really can take advantage of being a latecomer. Japan has better mobile technology. The U.S. has better Internet technology. And different countries have different things that are all better than what we are using. We can just cherry-pick. I think that reduces business risk.
Credit-card penetration in China is low. China is a cash-based society. In the beginning we didn't offer cash-on-delivery. We only offered credit-card payment and money-order payment. And we didn't get much business. So we began to offer cash-on-delivery in Beijing. And that helped a lot.
WSJ: What did you take away from that experience?
Ms. Yu: Don't try to change consumer behavior. If consumers don't want to pay with credit cards, then ask them how they want to pay. If they want to pay cash, then figure out a way to get their cash.
WSJ: Was there ever an instance when you felt you let your company or your colleagues down?
Ms. Yu: I don't feel I let people down. But I think the worst moment for me running Dangdang was 2001 and 2002. Everybody declared that the Internet economy bubble had burst and was dead. I told people that I really believed that was the future of consumption.
WSJ: What has been the toughest decision you have had to make as a manager?
Ms. Yu: Firing senior executives is tough. Once I hired three executives from the largest bookseller in China. I thought that since they ran the largest bookseller in China, they must know a whole lot about what we do. And it didn't work. I didn't realize that they had built the largest brick-and-mortar bookseller because they had a lot of state-owned assets and resources at their disposal. So they didn't pay much attention to turnover, discounts and all those things.
After maybe six months, I realized I couldn't let it go on. We weren't meeting targets, and the people reporting to them were getting anxious because they wouldn't make decisions. But firing someone who was -- what, 15 years older than me? -- I rehearsed the lines so many times.
WSJ: The lesson?
Ms. Yu: Don't assume a person's skill set has a natural linkage to the titles he has held. In the end, attitude is most important.
WSJ: What advice would you give to someone starting out now in your field?
Ms. Yu: Identify customer needs. Every single company sings the same song: "We are customer oriented." But most really don't pay that much attention to customers. To me, everybody is a customer. When I talk to you, you are a customer to me at this moment. I need to use language and examples that make my point clear to you. When I talk to my secretary, my secretary's my customer. I need to make things clear and easy for her to understand, and easy to give me feedback.
And I think for entrepreneurs, I have another philosophy that is very useful, which is, I always live well below my means. So money is never an issue for me or for the company.
视所有人为顾客
当俞渝(Peggy Yu)和她的丈夫1999年创立网上书店当当网(Dangdang.com)时，中国仅有400万互联网用户，很多中国零售商都在争夺这些用户在网上的微薄支出。当互联网泡沫破裂时，投资者和朋友都劝说她们夫妇转行其它业务。
七年过去了，中国网民的数量已经剧增至1.23亿，当当网的发展也是欣欣向荣。俞渝和她的丈夫现在担任当当网的联合总裁，当当网也号称是中国收入最高的网上零售商，并已经进入其它产品领域。除了书籍外，当当网现在还销售五花八门的各种产品，如摩托罗拉(Motorola) Razr手机、爆米花机、以及最近在北京举行的Black Eyed Peas演唱会的门票。
当当网及其竞争力吸引了海外投资者越来越浓厚的兴趣。本月，当当网宣布完成了第三轮融资，获得了美国风险投资企业DCM-Doll Capital Management为首的四家投资机构注入的2,700万美元资金，作为交换，当当网出让了少数股份。俞渝说，该公司可能选择公开上市，时间或许是在明年，不过对此没有明确的计划。
今年41岁的俞渝拥有纽约大学工商管理硕士学位。最近她在北京接受了《华尔街日报》记者丁杰生(Jason Dean)的采访。
《华尔街日报》：你从事的是书籍销售业务。你觉得哪本商业书籍比较有用？
俞渝：罗杰?洛温斯坦(Roger Lowenstein)撰写的沃伦?巴菲特(Warren Buffett)传记《一个美国资本家的崛起》给我留下了很深的印象，我经常会重温这本书。我本人从未见过巴菲特，但从这本书中可以看出他的远见卓识，以及超凡的耐心，他能够静下心来深思熟虑。他坚持自己认为正确的几条简单的原则。与此同时，他并不固执己见。
他最主要的原则之一──投资回报率──对我的思想产生了很大的影响。每当我支出时，我总会考虑价值。如果我要同时在两个领域投入相同的资金，从每个领域获得的价值如何？他对这些尺度的把握格外敏锐。
问：你希望当当网的新员工在进入公司时已经掌握些什么呢？
答：技能可以培训。态度和习惯更为重要。我希望我们能有许多天生的学习者，他们热爱学习。我相信态度决定命运。
问：你现在觉得当初在创业时哪些方面有待改进呢？
答：制定标准。我认为标准非常重要。如果没有规则，每个人的工作可能很努力，但却向著不同的方向。这样人们就总是处在争论之中，他们会采用不同的尺度，也无法很客观地评价情况。
问：你使用的最重要的科技产品是什么？
答：我的手机。我每月平均发送1,200条至1,500条短信。我也用它检查商店中的价格。我在一个商店中浏览，在手机中输入ISBN编号或其它号码，发送到当当网，立刻就能知道当当网的价格和这个商店中产品价格的对比情况。
问：在你所从事的行业中，中国与世界其他地区存在很大的不同吗？
答：我认为中国可以充分利用后发优势。日本的移动技术处于领先位置。美国的互联网技术更胜一筹。不同的国家都有比我们目前使用的技术更好的地方。我们可以吸收不同的优势。我认为这有助于降低商业风险。
中国信用卡的普及率很低。中国社会仍在大量使用现金。一开始，我们没有提供货到付款服务，只是提供信用卡付款和汇款服务，获得的业务并不多。因此我们在北京推出了货到付款业务，收到了很好的效果。
问：你从这种经历中学到了什么？
答：不要试图改变消费者的行为。如果消费者不想用信用卡付款，那就了解他们想如何付款。如果他们想用现金支付，那就设计一种能让他们用现金付款的方式。
问：你有没有过让你的公司或同事失望的事情？
答：我认为我没有让人们失望。但我认为在运营当当网的过程中，最困难的时期是2001年和2002年。所有人当时都声称网络经济的泡沫已经破裂，无药可救了。我向人们表示，我相信这是消费的未来趋势。
问：作为一名经理，你曾经做出的最困难的决定是什么？
答：解雇高级管理人员是一件困难的事情。我曾从中国最大的书店聘用了3名管理人员。我想由于他们管理过中国最大的书店，他们一定非常了解我们的一整套流程。但效果并不好。我没有意识到他们之所以能够建立起最大的实体书店，实际上是因为他们掌握著大量的国有资产和资源。因此他们对营业额、折扣等事情并不很重视。
经过了大约半年后，我意识到不能让这种情况继续下去。我们没有达到目标，他们的下级感到无所适从，因为他们不作出决策。但要解雇一位比我年长15岁的人吗？我为此排练了许多遍。
问：教训是什么？
答：不要假定某人的水平同他担任的职务具有自然的联系。最终，态度是最重要的。
问：你对在你这个领域创业的人有什么建议呢？
答：识别客户的需要。所有的公司都在重复著相同的话：顾客就是上帝。但大多数公司并没有真正重视顾客。对我而言，所有人都是顾客。当我同你交谈时，此时此刻你就是我的顾客。我需要用语言和例子对你讲清我的观点。当我同我的秘书谈话时，我的秘书就是我的客户。我需要把事情讲清楚，让她容易了解并对我做出反馈。
我认为作为企业家而言，我有另一种非常有用的理念，就是我的支出总是远远低于我的收入。因此钱对我或公司来说从来都不是问题。
Jason Dean
