Interview: David Joy with Ameriprise Financial
>> the s&p and dow recorded their first weekly declines in three weeks coming ahead of next week’s meeting of the federal reserve. economists forecasting that the fed will raise the benchmark rate an 11th straight time by quarter of a point. we’ll speak with david joy with ameriprise financial, joining us from boston. nice to see you.
>> thank you.
>> given that we had the post-katrina rally, the stall in the rally this week, stocks declining, what do you anticipate we could see next week when the fed meets?
>> all eyes will be on the fed and what they say. i think it’s a foregone conclusion, by and large that they will raise rates. but i think the fed has been on guard recently for any signs that this is starting to creep into core inflation, that is, higher energy prices. and it will be interesting to see what they say about that. there has been anecdotal information from individual companies that they’re seeing higher prices and they’ll try to pass them along so i think that’s what the market will focus on.
>> how will that play out specifically? i know you come from the position thinking it will be difficult for stocks to gain while the fed continues to raise interest rates.
>> yes, i think that the market will struggle as long as the fed is raising short-term rates and a companion issue to that is whether or not the longer end of the yield curve starts to rise. we still think that it will. we think the 10-year should trend towards 4.75% or 5% by year end or thereabouts so if you have a situation where both of those are occurring at the same time along with higher energy prices, i think that will make things more difficult for the stock market than some think.
>> what kind of yield on the 10-year would investors need to see to be attracted away from stocks, towards bonds?
>> well, i think once you get up to the 4.75 level and it depends on whether or not we plateau there or see what kind of momentum we have, i think that’s going to create some competition for stocks. there’s an outside chance if we start to see core inflation rising that the 10-year could rise further than that. i would guess, in terms of the timing of this, maybe in the first quarter, second quarter of next year, stocks will be faced with real competition from the bond market in my view.
>> i made an easy comparison of the s&p 500 and the russell 2000, the russell, the small cap index, the top line in orange, the white line, the s&p 500. clear outperformance of the small caps. david, last time we spoke, united states you thought the large caps would outperform. it hasn’t happened yet. why is that?
>> it did start to happen around the june, julyiary and then it stalled out and once we got the post-katrina rally, it was the higher beta sectors of the market that took off, including the russell 2000. as well as the nasdaq, for that matter. i think it related to the whole question of what is the underlying strength of the economy and whether or not the fed is going to pause. if they do, you could see reacceleration of economic activity, reacceleration of, in essence, animal spirits focused on higher beta sectors of the market of the i don’t expect that will persist but i think that drove the outperformance in the last few weeks. we’ll see what happens, if the fed continues to raise rates.
>> your team meets next i believe on tuesday to discuss asset allocation. what will the discussion be? making the case for remaining overweight in equities or changing the allocation?
>> that’s the big issue we’re always confront with. we’ve been overweighted equities for the better part of the last several years. we took a little bit of that off the table at the beginning of the year but kept it in place by and large. so that will be the bigger issue. i suspect we’ll keep it in place. i think as much as the equity market is faced with issues, i think the bond market is overvalueda at these levels but another issue facing us is did we keep our overweight in international markets in place on the equity side and that has served us well. we got a nice boost from the political arena in japan last sunday. we have an election coming up in germany on sunday. if the opposition happens to win or even receive a mandate for reform, we could see another leg up in performance coming out of the european markets , germany in particular. that’s something else we’ll watch carefully.
>> why the overweight in domestic equities if i think you have said that you think that the indexes will end the year lower from current levels?
>> i think that’s a possibility that they can. our forecast, our capital markets committee expectation, is that equities will have a positive return. i’m a little bit of an outlier among that membership. i think there’s a chance we could be down modestly. but our overall point of view, the consensus point of view from the committee is we will end up modestly higher rment. overall, i think modest returns are the order of the day going forward.
>> david, thanks so much.
>> you’re welcome.
>> and coming up, a look at “money & sports.” major league baseball reaching a deal with espn. what does it mean for disney?
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Listen Market briefing -- Ellen (slow)
NYSE -- Deb (fast)
Chart of the day -- Tom (slow)
>> welcome back to “after the bell,” i’m ellen braitman. 30 after the hour. let’s recap the day on wall street where stocks advanced as lower oil prices and president bush’s pledge to rebuild the gulf coast after katrina brightened the outlook for the economy and corporate profits of the dow higher by 83 points, s&p up 10 and nasdaq down 14. each of the benchmark indexes had their first loss in several weeks -- it was those comments from the president that did boost the stock market today, specifically building and material stocks rising. let’s get the details from deborah kostroun.
>> thanks a lot, ellen. also the fact that we saw lower crude oil prices helping things out but of course president bush last night pledging to rebuild the gulf coast after katrina, really brightening the outlook for the economy and also corporate profits and a lot of companies, like louisiana pacific, they stand to benefit from all the reconstruction, helping to lead the market . louisiana pacific, it was upgraded by prudential, saying―this is the largest maker of oriented strand board, will benefit from robust demand amid katrina rebuilding and the price of wood will remain strong and rebuilding after katrina will increase that demand. also potlatch, upgraded by bank of america so many of the material stocks performing well. for the week, what we did see, we saw the dow, it was down .4%. the s&p down, also the nasdaq, that should be down .7% so we did see all the major averages snapping the two-week advance. what we did see, retail, that was the biggest loser. also, however, on the other end of the spectrum, insurance and financials, the biggest gainers. lehman out with good earnings this week. also, looking at some of the -- some other stocks like owens illinois, the maker of plastics and glass packaging products, expecting full-year profit to be less than forecast mainly because of higher costs for raw material. packing material and also a temporary capacity reduction, so that stock lower. we have the fed meeting next week and talk that the fed will be increasing interest rates. you saw shares of many of the homebuilders declining on the day on expectations that the fed may be raising the benchmark lending rate, of course, by quarter of a pipe to 3.75% and of course higher interest rates make mortgage payments for homeowners more costly. back to you, ellen.
>> thanks so much. have a wonderful weekend. another story we followed today, gold touching a 17-year high. citigroup analysts say it is a good time for the commodity, they are looking for prices to climb as high as $500 an ounce. “chart of the day” has a long-term look at gold and joining us is editor-at-large, tom keene, visiting our boston bureau today and joining us from there, hi, tom.
>> hi. this is a great story, gold coming up, touching a 17-year high, well above $450 the ounce. to put it in perspective and to see how poor an investment it’s been versus the glory days of the 1970’s and 1980’s, i thought we would take a long-term look at gold adjusted for inflation. on the chart, you see gold, from 1960 to 2005, you see this big spike. on an inflation-adjusted basis, in today’s dollars, gold, back in 1980, $1600 an ounce, $1,600 an ounce of the and we come down into this protracted low inflation environment but just now in the last year or two, sneaking up and breaking through to new highs today, near $450 the ounce.
>> break it down for us in terms of what the specialists are saying, whether it’s a reflection of inflation, a reflection of the dollar? how much, for example, does demand for jewelry play into this?
>> that’s a very important question because usually when you talk to me about it, it’s about inflation, it’s about economics, it’s about fed policy but there’s much more going on here. jewelry is a big deal in gold. there’s a limited supply of gold. what john hill and brian yew are saying at citigroup is that jewelry affects the price much more at lower prices, $250 an ounce but when you get to the new record highs, $450 an ounce, it becomes much more those ideas of inflation and of monetary economics. gold, though, playing an important part in jewelry, not only at the braitman household but in china and india, as well.
>> love the gold jewelry. the fed meets next week, we know everyone is focused on what the fed will say about inflation, how closely do we know the fed looks at gold? >> it’s a great question because we really don’t know. they rarely, rarely talk about it because the fed talks about behavioral economics. they want caution and conservatism and to many people, gold about fear. gene sperling said something interesting on the show today, he said in jackson hole at recent meetings of the kansas city fed, many people he saw there were talking about gold not up on the podium, not in front of the cameras, but out in the woods trout fishing or whatever they do out there in the free time.
>> let’s talk about the central bank aspect, central bank sales of gold, what has that meant for price?
>> it’s a big issue for gold bugs, people looking for high gold activity. they are selling gold into this rally, particularly the european nations and their central banks and when you look at that, it’s selling as they do, it’s even more remarkable says john hill of citigroup, that gold continues to move up.
>> tom, thanks so much. tom and i mentioning the fed meeting, how the fed may be looking at gold and looking at inflation. what does it mean for the stock market ? we’ll ask that question of david joy of ameriprise financial services, ask him his thoughts on the fed and the stock market in coming weeks. keep it here.
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